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  • Updated: More HTC Perfume camera rumors: super-fast hybrid autofocus?

Updated: More HTC Perfume camera rumors: super-fast hybrid autofocus?

Posted: , by Paul K.

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Concept image by Hasan Kaymak

Concept image by Hasan Kaymak


Update: Additional information regarding OIS can be found at the bottom of the article

A couple of weeks ago, we heard the first rumors about the camera in HTC’s next flagship. The phone, as you may know by now, is codenamed Perfume and some rumors claim that it will not be called One M10 when it comes out — allegedly, HTC will be discontinuing the One M(number) flagship line in favor of a new naming scheme.

The report back then claimed that the new smartphone will come with a 12 MP UltraPixel main camera, assisted by laser autofocus capable of achieving some really fast focus times. Today, leakster @LlabTooFeR has posted some more info on what we could see used in the Perfume’s camera department.



According to the tweet, the main camera of HTC’s upcoming flagship will be the 12 MP Sony IMX377 sensor. It’s the same sensor, which one can find in Google’s Nexus 5X and Nexus 6P devices. Praised for its extra-large pixel sizes, measuring at 1.55μm (usually, top-tier smartphone cameras have around 1.12μm pixels in their sensors), the IMX377 is capable of collecting more light from a scene, making it much faster in daylight scenarios, and much better at taking snaps when the lighting is dim (check out our camera review of the Nexus 6P).

The front snapper of the Perfume will, allegedly, be equipped with a Samsung “s5k4e6” 5 MP sensor. This one has a 1.34μm pixel size and utilizes Samsung’s ISOCELL technology. The latter is something that Sammy first introduced with the camera of the Galaxy S5 and is basically a tech that isolates various pixels better, limiting cross talk and making details in a shot sharper.

It seems both cameras will be marketed as being UltraPixel. That’s a term HTC first used a couple of years ago to brand its cameras with extra-large pixels. The UltraPixel snappers in the HTC One and One (M8) had 2μm pixels, but a very low resolution – 4 MP. As a result, image details were sub-par when compared to other top-shelf devices, so HTC ultimately chose to only use UltraPixel sensors for its front-facing cameras. Apparently, with the Perfume, the UltraPixel name may be making a return, albeit with slightly smaller pixels (probably for the better).

The tweet also mentions that HTC’s next flagship will be using laser-assisted autofocus, combined with phase detection autofocus. This somewhat reminds us of the latest Xperias, where Sony chose to combine phase detection with contrast detection to achieve ultra-fast focus times – as low as 0.03 seconds. Whether the Perfume will be capable of such speeds remains to be seen.

So, the only thing one may be asking themselves now is – are we going to see OIS (Optical Image Stabilization) on the Perfume? Google’s Nexus 5X and Nexus 6P lack any type of hardware stabilization, Google claiming that the IMX377’s large pixels are so good at taking a quick snap that it would be redundant. We’ll see if HTC shares that opinion.

Update: @LlabTooFeR has posted another tweet, claiming that OIS is, in fact, present on the Perfume's camera sensor. This would be great indeed, as optical image stabilization would help for nice smooth videos, dealing with the "shaky hand" effect on hardware level, and it would further assist the camera in night time situations, when shutter speeds are a bit slower and it's very easy to end up with blurry shots. If all of this information is correct, it seems HTC's new flagship may pack a heavy punch in the camera department. The only thing that's left is for HTC to get the software side of it right — both in terms of UI and post-processing — and from what we've seen in the HTC One A9, we are hopeful that it just might.





source: @LlabTooFeR

60 Comments
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posted on 11 Feb 2016, 06:01 1

1. shield (Posts: 293; Member since: 12 Sep 2015)


HTC COPY LG :D

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 12:02 3

12. bur60 (Posts: 847; Member since: 07 Jul 2014)


They better do, and work it out better with smaller size.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:50 2

25. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


they didnt, this is just a marketing lie by HTC. Here is why:
"One M9+ Supreme Camera Edition allows you to capture your best photos in all situation with built-in 2nd generation OIS and industry-leading focusing technology (Laser AF & PDAF)"

This how HTC describes the M9+ Supreme Camera on their website, and I was stupid enough to believe it, so I went ahead yesterday and made the worst decision ever, trade a Note 5 for this piece of cr@p. Focusing on this thing is almost impossible, colors are always off, the camera app becomes so sluggish with the slightest shake. I lost hope in catching a good shot of my 3 years old daughter.
Add to that a below than average battery life that takes more than 2 hours to fully charge. Then comes the processor, that cant even handle the slightest games like Yahtzee Online and Domino!. I had to go into Developers mode, then turn on the High Performance Mode, which made things a bit better yet affected the already bad battery life. And dont try to watch a YouTube clip at 720p+ reslution, it will empty the battery and shut down before you are done from the phone.

Now I have to live with atleast $150 loss or else I would end up banging both my head and the phone till they crack open.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:58 2

27. Ashoaib (Posts: 3229; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)


its your own mistake... you prefered HTC over Note 5?? wow, thats awesom... well done friend

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 14:01

28. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


I wanted a phone with smaller footprint than the Note 5, front firing speakers, and a fingerprint scanner.
And i knew it wont be as good as the Note 5, but never thought it would be this bad.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 16:53

42. rubyonrails3 (Posts: 266; Member since: 01 Oct 2014)


This state holds true only cuz HTC had bad 2015. else I would have said great choice.. If you trade Note 6 with M10 would be not so bad idea just you'll get smaller screen.. but would be sane thing if you choose to do so. isn't it ?

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 14:27 1

29. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


Cool story.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 14:33 3

30. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


And you want us to believe this $hit? You are the one always hating htc phones and you think people will believe that you actually bought one? Good one.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 14:52 2

32. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


http://m.imgur.com/7Ux5UFM

Now go back hiding in your cave

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 14:58

33. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


Fine. So is the camera really that bad? Just cant imagine that a phone with laser autofocus and phase detection cant focus.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 15:08

34. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Bad is a compliment.
After few hours of trying to figure out how a camera that has the same sensor as the Z3, all these focusing technologies, OIS 2, can be this slow and this cr@ppy, so I thought that it must be the camera app. So I downloaded Google Camera, and I got the same result. It gives you OKAY to V good shots outside, but terrible ones once you get indoors.

And if you noticed from the picture, it is on the charger, the 2nd time today, becausd once you turn the screen on, the battery drains crazy quick.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 15:19

35. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


That sucks. This mediatek processor must be the cause of camera slowness and weak gaming performance. Who the hell decided tu put x10 on QHD display??? Now i know that i will think 10 times before buying this mediatek cr@p. And the sensor i think is toshiba not sony.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 15:29

36. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


http://www.anandtech.com/show/9671/htc-launches-the-one-m9-supreme-camera-edition

It is a Sony sensor.
And other phones that has the Helio X10 doesnt suffer this much like the m9+.
Do you know that even the bottom speaker is a smaller one than that on the m9 and it is placed on the left of the fingerprint scanner? It isnt as loud or clear as the one found on the m8 my wife had.

After owning this phone, I wont be feeling sorry anymore for a big company like HTC that offers such a terrible phone, with very good hardware, and flagship like price.

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 09:14

55. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


So i dont really know what is the problem with that camera. Poor post processing must be. Try to turn on tap to make a photo in camera settings. Maybe that will help focusing. For the speakers i didnt know that they are weaker. Htc is drwoning and they made too many "highend" phones last year in rush and didnt spent enough time to work on software. I am just surprised that you bought this phone without any research.

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 10:01

57. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


The problem is that there aren't too many Supreme Camera owners for me to do a decent research about it.
Today it was sunny outside, so I took some shots and I was able to get fantastic results, but the moment you get into a dimmer environment, you sill start losing lots of details.
Battery seems to get better, I am not sure if it was calibrating the 1st two days, but it is definitely better, it's not as good as the Note 5, but I can live with it. Although I hate the fact that it needs 2+ hrs to fully charge.
Performance is still bad when it comes to casual games, anything other than games runs buttery smooth. I hope an update will fix this.

I am starting to like it again, and today I refused an offer to trade it for an S6 Edge, because it is well designed and crafted, with fast and accurate fingerprint scanner, and boomspeakers(although they're not as good as those on the m8).

Let's hope HTC will not screw me and leave this phone without the updates it badly needs.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 15:54

38. nebula (Posts: 576; Member since: 20 Feb 2015)


I remember last year MWC and how much I awaited for M9 it was a flop I could barely contain in me and I was literally fuming..then I followed xda developers M9 thread only to realise camera is garbage. I even went to shop to have my own experience only to find display colour was so off. it's f**king crazy from glorious M7 to total marketing crap. Ofcourse there are good things but things from M7 only had to go up just like Sammy did in the last 2 years or Lg or Moto. Anyway I share same opinion here.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 16:14

40. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Thank you!
I have never been shy to admit that Samsung is my favorite company, but those on this site that knows me outside of here as well, know that I am not a brand wh0r€. I always like to try something different, and this time I got screwed big time, just like when I traded my Note 1 to an Xpedia S few years ago.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 16:49

41. nebula (Posts: 576; Member since: 20 Feb 2015)


You are welcome. I wonder if you had a chance to hold in hand M9+ prior to purchase that would have helped to approve your choice. It's a great year for smartphone industry It seems many fans will not be disappointed. Hope so

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 17:30

44. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Not really, but the salesman at the store told me why not I save $35 and buy the regular m9+, but I was already sold out on the camera specs of the Supreme Camera edition.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 20:40

47. Astonvan (Posts: 237; Member since: 14 Aug 2015)


Wow, you are also using opera mini.
I thought no one other than me used it on phonearena

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 21:38

51. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


I am pretty sure many use it as well.
I love it basically for two reasons, the data saver, and the quick access to bookmarks.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 21:03

48. belovedson (Posts: 988; Member since: 30 Nov 2010)


nice lol

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 21:20

49. belovedson (Posts: 988; Member since: 30 Nov 2010)


All this talk about camera phones is a moot point. just about every phone with either the latest samsung/sony camera will continue to produce great day time pics. however most pics are present in less than ideal lighting situations and again even the camera modules that are yet to be seen are less than ideal for most shooting situations.

I really wish this damn site will continue to educate the public how stupid alot of these phone camera comparisons are. If your the type that looks at face book as your source of photography you probably have no idea how much editing is involved in alot of these camera phone pics.

But please phone arena educate the public instead of these stupid comparisons

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 21:34

50. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Well, I am not comparing the M9px to a DSLR, I am comparing it to other phones, and it is by far the worst camera phone i had in 4 years.
You must have the phone to get my point.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 23:36

52. Gadgetex (Posts: 90; Member since: 10 Nov 2013)


Instead of using a new Sony sensor they are using an old sensor from last year that Google used on their Nexus 6.. WTF? Also taking away one speaker. Hopefully they upgrade that single speaker to be loud enough

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 06:03 2

2. rd_nest (Posts: 1593; Member since: 06 Jun 2010)


Hope the camera is good, otherwise it's done for them.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 06:11 3

3. lalalaman (Posts: 631; Member since: 19 Aug 2013)


please have boomsound......

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 06:53 2

5. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


Sounds good too me! Maybe they want to spent more time to deliver great camera quality, thats why its delayed.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 07:56 1

6. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


If this is true and there is no OIS, it won't be nearly as good as S7's camera(rumored 1.83 micron pixel pitch + OIS). Not to mention the G5 can have even better camera.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 08:04 7

7. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


What is true? Who said no ois? Nobody. So dont make a judgement yet.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 08:24 8

8. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


I said 'if'. If you had knowledge of basic elementary English, you wouldn't have replied.

Go and google conditional statements in English.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 08:45 13

9. Hyperreal (Posts: 228; Member since: 08 Oct 2013)


If your iq was higher than 50 you would stop this bul$hit. Writing IF THIS IS TRUE makes no sense because NOBODY wrote that there will be NO OIS. Troll harder. Loser.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 12:06 3

13. Kumar123 (Posts: 743; Member since: 15 Jan 2015)


@ Hyperreal, +1000. I really liked your comment. Already hit the thumbs up icon.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:22

21. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


OMG, you're so awesome. Getting so obsessed with me. Go get a life idiot.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:16 1

18. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


That's why the IF. You need english lessons.
Let me give you some explanation:

IF (condition), then (consequence).

Now, if the condition is true, the consequence will only apply in this case. The condition may be hypothetical. For example I can say something like:

If pigs fly, then I slept with your mom.

In the above statement, the if part is false. Hence, the other part doesn't matter at all. We know pigs don't fly. So whatever I say in second part is irrelevant.

I hope you get this. It is very much possible that M10 has OIS. In that case, my statement carries no weight. It is a mere speculation on my end.

PS. It has OIS. So the if condition was false. Whatever I said later was irrelevant as the condition wasn't true.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:21

20. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


IF THIS IS TRUE -> the above specs i.e. the sensor and other stuff.

and -> adding sentences

NO OIS -> my speculation(which was wrong).

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 12:08

15. Supraman21 (Posts: 323; Member since: 09 Jun 2010)


Where did you get that 1.83 micron pixel pitch info from?

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:33

23. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


It's a 1/2" sensor.

We can assume diameter to ring ratio to be same as Samsung's 1/2.6" sensor. So it's a basically 1.69x bigger sensor and combine it with 3/4 of pixels. Do the math and you get about 2.28x bigger pixels = 1.52x on one side(sqrt)

S6 has 1.2 micron pixels. Multiply it by 1.52, you get 1.83 micron.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:20 1

19. Fardon (Posts: 95; Member since: 24 Nov 2014)


You just pulled 1.83 micron pixels out of your ass.
We dont know the pixel size and its impossible to find out unless you somehow have the exact dimensions of the sensor.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:33 2

22. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


It's a 1/2" sensor.

We can assume diameter to ring ratio to be same as Samsung's 1/2.6" sensor. So it's a basically 1.69x bigger sensor and combine it with 3/4 of pixels. Do the math and you get about 2.28x bigger pixels(1.52x on one side)

S6 has 1.2 micron pixels. Multiply it by 1.52.

My ass is smart!.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:41

24. letosaw (Posts: 105; Member since: 05 Aug 2014)


It's not 1.2 it is 1.12. Pixel size will be around 1.7 micron.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 13:53

26. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


I heard it's 1.2 on the Wikipedia page.

Correction: Checked again. They have updated the article since. Thanks for the info.

But then again, if it's a similar grade sensor to IMX 377, then the pixel size can be :

1.55* (1/2)/(1/2.3) = 1.7825 microns.

Let's see.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 14:43 1

31. apakalo1 (Posts: 48; Member since: 19 Nov 2015)


@Tyrion, don't mind some of the guys here pls. They don't wanna benefit from the learned and techie guys here.
They ve just taken this site as a play ground to exhibit their fanboysm and ignorance. Its a pity though

Because of tht, some of us don't even wanna share technical knowledge at all, cos any ignorant fanboy will try to argue.

Inspite of tht, keep it up, cos most of us like ur submissions

posted on 16 Feb 2016, 07:34

60. Fardon (Posts: 95; Member since: 24 Nov 2014)


it'll be more like 1.7 - 1.75 micron pixels...

posted on 16 Feb 2016, 07:50

61. TyrionLannister (unregistered)


Still pretty great.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 16:08

39. idrisalsudani (Posts: 11; Member since: 14 Dec 2015)


HTC is fool

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 09:14 3

10. marorun (Posts: 3561; Member since: 30 Mar 2015)


HTC M9 take much better selfie than Samsung S6 so basically they downgraded the selfie cam on the new M10.. Should have kept the ultra pixel at front.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 15:44 2

37. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Not true.
I ve had the M9px for more than 24 hrs now, and the front facing camera on this thing is inconsistent. It is in no way as good as the one I had on the Note 5.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 16:58

43. rubyonrails3 (Posts: 266; Member since: 01 Oct 2014)


I doubt you have M9px or super camera edition.. you making things up.. would love to see your phone.

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 17:32

45. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Next time, check the comment section before you come out as a fool.
Now since you already came out as an ignorant fool, go check comment #32.

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 09:53

56. Norris (Posts: 121; Member since: 26 Jun 2015)


You sold your Note 5?

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 10:02

58. maherk (Posts: 3724; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


Yes :(

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 11:35

11. j2001m (Posts: 2941; Member since: 28 Apr 2014)


I do not even think ois is supported by the IMX377’s cam, but if it is then it will be very big with iOS on top as its made for a normal cam and not a phone

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 12:07 1

14. Techielover (Posts: 105; Member since: 20 Feb 2015)


Wow...too bad persons will have either the g5 or s7 by the time it's out

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 12:34 1

16. JesseJames (Posts: 134; Member since: 22 Feb 2015)


Wasn't the one m7 the first phone to incorporate OIS? Anyway how can you go from the first(or one of the first with OIS) to now being one of the only ones with a flagship without OIS?

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 12:48 5

17. nebula (Posts: 576; Member since: 20 Feb 2015)


Promising for the first time in few years! Will I get my first Htc after M7 ..will i ! That would be awesome

posted on 11 Feb 2016, 20:14

46. BLSEOTB (Posts: 332; Member since: 24 Mar 2015)


I want boomsound back

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 00:38

53. Gadgetex (Posts: 90; Member since: 10 Nov 2013)


This camera sensor is around 2 years old now if I am not mistaken. Came out before Google used it in the Nexus 6. Why is HTC using old components In a new high end smartphone?? Their stinginess is what kills their smartphone sales. That single speaker better be loud!

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 06:29

54. Techielover (Posts: 105; Member since: 20 Feb 2015)


Well you are mistaken...the sensor was used in the Nexus 6P

posted on 12 Feb 2016, 10:57

59. miket1737 (Posts: 2541; Member since: 17 Mar 2013)


Same sensor in the 6P, which takes some incredible photos and is pretty dam awesome in lowlight... The combination of OIS to it and an additional auto focus measure= means it should be pretty dam beast. Hopefully htc doesnt mess up the software side of it

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