Microsoft takes Motorola back to court in Germany, seeking licensing fee on Google Maps
has in place with HTC and Samsung for the Google Maps application on their Android phones. Microsoft took home $792 million in the second quarter in royalty payments from both HTC and Samsung. The latter pays Redmond based Microsoft $12-$13 on each Android model shipped while the former pays $10 for each Android phone.
Germany has not been a major sales area for Motorola Mobility and the manufacturer has lost three cases against Microsoft in the country for infringing on a FAT file system patent, a patent involving SMS technology and a third patent related to communications between a keyboard and an application. One of the suits included injunctions against sales of the Motorola ATRIX, Motorola RAZR and the Motorola RAZR MAXX in the country. In September, Apple won a preliminary injunction against the sale in the country of the Motorola Milestone XT720, Motorola DEFY, Motorola ATRIX and Motorola XOOM tablet.
source: ComputerWorld via Engadget
2. gallitoking (Posts: 4704; Member since: 17 May 2011)
Apple sit back on this one and watch an OG how is done
53. plgladio (Posts: 313; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
Yeah correctly said, Apple sit back in every other area, watch how others are innovating things around you.
3. Insignificant (Posts: 192; Member since: 22 Sep 2012)
I dare Microsoft to try Sony and see what happens...
Microsoft knows it's own phones fail, so it has to make money from others. I suppose, therefore, you could say it's doing well in the phone market. Bullies.
Just like a certain other company.
I can't wait for the day Google stops being so cosy with everyone and joins these wars head on.
4. crankyd00d (Posts: 191; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
What is that certain company? I hope you don't mean Apple, or you would be wrong, they are not like Microsoft because their phones/products are actually selling, unlike Microsoft where all they get is licence/law suit money. I have no love for Apple but their products do sell
6. snowgator (Posts: 3346; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Wow. You really HATE facts, dontchya?
-Google kinda owns Motorola. In case ya missed it.
-Microsoft gets royalties from other manufacturers due to actual advancements they made and own. It is truly not the same as taking someone to court over a shape.
-Microsoft had approached Moto over and over about licensing fees, trying to work out a deal not involving court. Moto, owned by Google in case you missed it, said no.
-Rest assured..... Sony is coming. Android as an OS uses technology at it's core that requires a license fee. It isn't highway robbery, nor is it immorally wrong, and it isn't even about stopping Motorola (Which is owned by Google, by the way) or any other Android developer from making money or outselling. It is about using their tech that is patented.
33. XPERIA-KNIGHT (unregistered)
"Rest assured..... Sony is coming."
What is sony using that microsoft has patented? Please let us know
39. Nadr1212 (Posts: 741; Member since: 22 Sep 2012)
Ooh, Microsoft just got burned like toast by Insignificant Yo!!!!!
41. jroc74 (Posts: 5271; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
So is this what MS has been suing the Android manufactures for? We havent heard a peep about what they were getting money for until now.
If so...this is odd seeing as how Google Maps is Google's thing and not the OEMs
5. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
Motorola get over it, all Microsoft wants is to enter in licensing agreement of Android patents.
11. iphone4me (banned) (Posts: 35; Member since: 09 Sep 2012)
MOTOROLA, don't be an idiot like SAMSUNG, pay the FEE, or forever be labeled a CHEATER like SAMSUCK, I mean, SAMMY, lol Sorry. ;-((
7. Whateverman (Posts: 3236; Member since: 17 May 2009)
I don't care THAT heavily about Motorola, Microsoft, or the German court system. But this cements in my mind that I will never have another Microsoft product in my home. They are just as evil, if not more than my now SECOND favorite tech company, Apple. (Yes, I love Apple products too. I just hate the way they do business and the infectious arrogance that seems to spread to SOME its iPhone customers).
This just seems like another "patent-gone-wrong" story that never should have happened in the first place. People use two different sources to present information all the time, but when you put it in an app someone get to "own" it? Apple and microsoft are gonna destroy the tech world until they are the only two left, then we'll really see what's its like to get f*cked.
18. blazee (Posts: 348; Member since: 02 Jan 2012)
This patent sounds like one of the ridiculously broad, stupid patents apple holds. Microsoft does not deserve any royalties or licensing off Google maps. I also do not think I will be buying any more Microsoft products, as I see no more need for them and i am starting to dislike the company for its pettiness
27. asulect (Posts: 131; Member since: 27 Aug 2012)
Well, when you buy an samsung phone, considered yourself just bought some $12 to $13 worth of Microsoft product.
37. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
Instead of hating the folks who are awarded the patent, why not hate the folks that gave out the patent?
58. Whateverman (Posts: 3236; Member since: 17 May 2009)
So we should only dislike the system and never those who use it to do bad things? There are plenty of reason why MS has been banned from my home, starting with the Motorola Q, the Samsung Saga, Windows Mobile 5, 6, 6.5, and ending with a non-operational 6 month old Vista laptop that just died for no reason at all. Their products suck, plan and simple and that already horrible experience was made worse by reading crap like this. It may seem harsh but I'm sure I didn't hurt MS feelings at all.
61. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
if you using windows xbox or office suit u get a licence yes but u want it without licence and use it for free by Crack and no company wants that their things go in market for free so same goes with the things involved with motorola and MS.
8. iphone4me (banned) (Posts: 35; Member since: 09 Sep 2012)
WoW! So Google is affiliated w/ Crooks & Cheaters.
So Far Score for Cheaters = -2
= Bad Google
I'm glad I don't own an Android, or Motorolla, or else I'll be labeled as Cheaters & Copycats. ;-((
10. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
Good so if you really care for not being called cheater then you should read this entire thread on following link :)
14. iphone4me (banned) (Posts: 35; Member since: 09 Sep 2012)
RusticGuy, I'm not sure if that is just your facade but, you seem to have left out old wounds, SJ is correct, MICROSOFT is nothing if they didn't steal Apple UI from the beginning. They ended paying up Apple like 300 mil.
16. ktfrank (Posts: 4; Member since: 11 Dec 2010)
How old are you? I think you need to check history on the relationship between Apple and Microsoft. And the original user interface Apple stole from Xerox PARC. And Apple did attempt to sue Microsoft and lost, then Microsoft bailed Apple out.
49. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
A big mistake Miscrosoft made for bailing them....
17. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
No one is a saint for sure sepcially the one's who have setup labs with all flavours of linux installed just to steal more ... :)
46. microsoftnokiawin (Posts: 1124; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
are you taco50 because you sound like him
48. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
I was thinking the same! Could it be him? I assume.....
47. nofear (Posts: 151; Member since: 22 Jun 2012)
Excellent recovery for an ignorant. Way to go rusticguy!
54. plgladio (Posts: 313; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
Great one. Thieves are always rich for example Apple :)
13. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
Do you know SJ tried to kill LINUX by trying to employ LINUS which he refused? Both Apple and M$ are dead against any Free Software because it breaks their monopoly. Only if S/W patents could be annuled can the world be free from what has become their business policy (litigation) because both these crooks stole from *NIX.
50. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)
No wonder he was taken away from sanity and life.
29. willard12 (Posts: 1110; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)
"Good artists copy, great artists steal"--Motorola....Oh wait, that was Steve Jobs. Motorola is the company that invented the cell phone. Maybe you'll get rid of your cell phone so you're not associated with any self-proclaimed "copycat" who made their cell phone based on Motorola's innovation.
9. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
If they can't win in markets they try to win in courts. Pathetic really. So either way they want cash.
15. iphone4me (banned) (Posts: 35; Member since: 09 Sep 2012)
STEALING IS WRONG! Pay the Royalty Fee Moto!
25. Zero0 (Posts: 592; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)
SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE WRONG!
It's amazing how Tesla patented all kinds of actually innovative technologies and didn't give a crap about who used them*, while Microsoft patents something little more obvious than breathing, and gets millions.
* = "Marconi is a good man. He is using 17 of my patents. Let him continue."
26. Whateverman (Posts: 3236; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Are you really that big of a fanboy or Google hater to realize that this has absolutely nothing to do with stealing anything? This is two of the world's biggest companies joining forces to kill off their biggest threat... Google. Anything Google or Android is a target to these guys and they want it destroyed. You may think there is nothing wrong with that right now, but as you can see... Apple is going into the set top box and TV manufacturing business now. What happens when they take over your TV and there is no more free public TV? Or they start patenting rectangular TVs and force recalls on the set you've had for years?
The typical Apple fanboy will say "That would be great!", but that's because many of them only think in the short term. These types of broad patents over any and everything will have serious implications for us as consumers down the line that those of us with foresight already know would be very bad. But enjoy that tiny sliver of freedom while Apple and Microsoft allows you to have it.
28. snowgator (Posts: 3346; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Dude, no one in MS wants Android destroyed. That is silly. They make a ton of money with MS Office on iOS and Android, and they are expanding that. They are creating an App for XBOX Live and XBOX Music for Android. They get a few bucks for most every Android device sold. They have a great working relationship with Android device makers, and hope to get Tablets with Windows RT and Windows Pro on as many device makers as they can.
Sure, they are in direct competition with Google with Bing, WP, and Outlook email services. But they are NOT TRYING TO KILL OFF ANDROID. They only want to get paid for their tech that Android OS uses. They have NOT taken any other device maker to court, or threatened to ban them. EVER.
That is the difference between them and Apple. Apple went straight to court. They had the expressed purpose of banning devices. Microsoft sees it as a steady stream of cash flow and is more then happy to work out deals.
56. Whateverman (Posts: 3236; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Their actions is what I'm referring to. There may not be a "We want Android dead" plan, but every step they've made brings us one step closer. They already have them out of Germany, why bring them back to court again? These patents are to vague, and enforcing these senseless patents is going to choke innovation. This isn't a new technology, it's a patent for common sense.
As for the good working relationships, its only with the ones who pay them. HTC, Samsung...no more problems with MS. But the rest are squarely within MS's cross haires. Let's face it, MS is evil, and I dont think it's silly at all to think so. Just look at their actions.
20. theBankRobber (Posts: 649; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)
So every android phone and device is basicly in violation because of Google Maps? Why microsoft wait 5 years or longer to sue, why doesn't Microsoft grow a pair of BALLS and take Google head on. That's what I don't get, they sue the OEM's but scared to death to take Google on in the court rooms. If you feel that strong about Google maps, take Google on for a ride and see what will happen.
24. JLMCGE01 (Posts: 8; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)
But Microsoft of Apple wont because all Google has to do is be like... Motorola created the first cellphone and we patented it ... we expect $700 billion of dollars worth of damages over the years from apple and microsoft. and by the apple dont make us pull our apps from your store no youtube, or gmail... no platform see how your maps came out smh.... they dont want "Googaorola"
34. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
M$ kept silent all these years coz their Valentine partner (read Apple) was using it in iOS ... once the valentine gave up google maps the patent troll gangster comes out in open. Who says M$ and Apple are enemies. They are of the same flock. I say this because Jobs brokered a deal years back for M$ against Mandriva Linux winning some contract in some African nation. Both are evil to the core. They hate Open source free software though both steal from there.
38. anonimust (Posts: 19; Member since: 12 Jan 2012)
By the way Microsoft is taking Google head on as they have amended their original complaint to add Google as a defendant. So I guess they are NOT scared to death to take on Google as you claim. Unfortunately phonearena did not post more details about this case, but wmpoweruser.com did.
40. Hemlocke (unregistered)
Google is named in this suit. Apple and Microsoft aren't "afraid" of Google (Just the fact that you think like that smells of the teenager mindset), nor should they be. As easily as Apple handled Samsung, and as easily as Microsoft has handled all the Android OEMs, going after Google would be easy. The problem is, Google makes almost nothing directly from Android, so there isn't much incentive to do it. You need to stop thinking like Google is some "secret powerhouse" in the computing or mobile space. They are a search company, and that's about it. Most of the Motorola stuff they bought is FRAND encumbered, aka "useless" in court.
44. theBankRobber (Posts: 649; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)
No their BOTH (Microsoft and Apple ) are cowards. All the Android OEM's are being sued over dumb s**t which leads to androids OS. They take OEM's to court but not Google, and the ONLY reason Google was put in later is because they OWN Mtorola. HOW f**king stupid are you people, they are suing MOTOROLA for Google maps, only reason Google was thrown in was because they had to remind everyone Google now owns Motorola. Motorola inovates and the rest want Motorola to be forced to make their patents FRAND based while both Microsoft and Apple sue for stupid s**t like swipe to unlock. Hell with with that bulls**t while both Microsoft and Apple try to monopolize the cell phone industry with the most BS forms of how to use a standard modern cell phone.
45. theBankRobber (Posts: 649; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)
Lets NEVER FORGET without Motorloas TRUE INOVATION WE WOULDNT HAVE CELL PHONES. Praise the REAL KINGS of TRUE Innovation before opening your mouths.
55. plgladio (Posts: 313; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
MS sues OEM because they make money out of it. Google is developing and giving that for free, so Patent case against this will fail
21. Zero0 (Posts: 592; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)
This is ridiculous.
I take information from multiple sources all of the time. I don't use it to make maps, but this isn't an innovative idea at all. Software patents need to go.
22. ambrown (Posts: 33; Member since: 06 Sep 2012)
This is seriously such BS. I just don't understand how Microsoft can sue, AND WIN, a company for using another company's product. I know that Motorola is technically owned by Google, but Google doesn't own Samsung, HTC, and all the other OEMs using Google Maps. Guess Microsoft just doesn't have the balls to go head to head with Google since they can intimidate OEMs easier than they can Google. Even more stupid is that Microsoft probably didn't even start using most of their map technology till well after Google Maps was dominating the market.
I seriously hate the patent system since loopholes and broad patents are given more credence than actual invention these days. The only winners are the freaking patent trolls and the guys that get paid the legal fees.
30. flamencoguy (Posts: 107; Member since: 04 Aug 2012)
Microsoft is behaving like Apple. This is not an MS invention. The idea of layering has been around for a very long time and has been implemented in Geographic Information Systems (GIS) years before there were even PCs.
USPTO again failed to know about this.
And Miscrosoft is being greedy. It wants to be like Apple.
This is very easy to verify. Another evil empire to watch out for !
35. anonimust (Posts: 19; Member since: 12 Jan 2012)
I understand that some patents are very broad and ridiculous, but to say that there should be absolutely no software patents whatsoever is a bit extreme. You android fanboys are probably the same people who pirate music and video because you think it should be free.
Newsflash for you fanboys, people need to get paid for their work. How would you like it if you come up with an idea or develop something that is supposed to earn you money to feed your family and someone else justs rips it off and you make earn nothing for your hard work?
If the patent was so ridiculous as many of you claim, then why is it that Samsung was willing to pay a license fee for it? They should have ignored it just like they ignored Apple. The fact 2 major companies (HTC&Samsung) entered into a licensing agreement seems to indicate that there is some measure of validity to the patent. Whether you want to debate that Microsoft's fee is unreasonable is one thing but to blanketly state that all software patents should be null and void is idiotic. Some software takes a lot of money and resources to develop, and without companies such as Microsoft, Apple, Google, Oracle, etc. a lot of the software we have now would take years or decades to develop inside your parent's basement/garage. Take Linux, OpenOffice, etc. Why don't they become mainstream? Because without lots of money and resources behind them, people can't dedicate all of their time working on a free project, people do have to make a living and these great works end up being nothing more than niche products.
Could MS choose to allow companies to use their products for free? Yes, but they choose not to be charitable. Good for Google if they so choose to give away certain products because they have other revenue sources to compensate. If a patent was granted that should not have been, then let the courts decide. Motorola will have its chance to prove its case. If you don't like how court cases turn out, then that is what the appellate courts are for. If you don't like how the appeal goes, then I suppose you should boycott not just Apple and Microsoft but also the country you live in that allows those unfavorable decisions. Its my understanding that China has very lax patent laws, piracy is pretty much legal over there.
By the way, all you fanboys, whether it be Apple, Microsoft, or Google, ALL COMPANIES ARE EVIL. THEY ARE ALL IN IT TO MAKE MONEY AND YOU MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO ANY OF THEM OTHER THAN $$$$$. When was the last time any company other than the one you work for cut you a check out of their billions in profit so you could pay your bills or feed your family. There are no charitable corporations, if they were they'd be called non-profit organizations, not corporations.
42. flamencoguy (Posts: 107; Member since: 04 Aug 2012)
This is prior art bro. My post is number 30. I worked on GIS in 1975 before PCs. Rudimentary yes but certainly not invented by MS.
The idea of layering of any geographic are goes something like this: Bottom layer can be about soil types, next layer above can be about vegetation and tree types, next layer can be about precipation then temperature etc. Amalgate the layers and you have a composite picture.
You can find this in many Geography journals.
Another huge failure of USPTO.
Your basic argument is they patented it so they must have invented it.
They read academic journals and used the ideas to create their maps and patented it or seen how others implemented maps.
Why is Samsung willing to pay? To avoid lawsuit against yet another troll. You cannot fight them all nor win them all. Decisions are based on least cost.
And do you not think Google should be paid for their work. They have the greatest most useful and most used maps out there. Everyone else copied
Yes there should be patents for real inventions based on original ideas and concepts. Not transferring concepts and ideas invented on big computers to little computers (yes smartphones are computers).
If you understand this then you would understand that Apple patented typing word autocompletion on smartphones which has existed on PCs for many years.
We can see the difference between patents for real inventions and patents to be used as a weapon to extract more money from unsuspecting companies.
I hope MS looses. Did they not steal the spreadsheet idea from Lotus 1-2-3 and from Visicalc?And Word from Wordperfect? And MS-DOS from DR-DOS?
52. flamencoguy (Posts: 107; Member since: 04 Aug 2012)
Layering in GIS/mapping
Example of GIS; http://www.esri.com/what-is-gis
This company has been doing this since 1969:
anonimust must read
60. anonimust (Posts: 19; Member since: 12 Jan 2012)
You should re-read my post. I stated that if the patent is invalid, then let the courts decide that. If you feel so strongly about it present the evidence to Google/Motorola and offer your services to be a consultant on their legal team.
I simply pointed out that's the way the system works and too many people expect EVERYTHING that is software or can be turned into software to be free.
43. pikapowerize (banned) (Posts: 1869; Member since: 03 May 2012)
microsoft uses nokia maps on bing!
51. networkdood (Posts: 6329; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
"Specifically, Microsoft says that Google Maps violates its patent for taking map information from one set and overlaying it with data from another. In other words, it means that the mapping application uses data from two different sources to present you with information and is a common technique"
THAT ...is a patent?