Protesters arrested after blocking train carrying coal for Apple
5. gallitoking (Posts: 4704; Member since: 17 May 2011)
great way to promote getting arrested..
6. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
It's also a great way to slow down environmental progress: obstructing business translates to loss of money, which impedes the economic viability of transitioning to green energy. Greenpeace's idea of change follows the same idea as when religious fanatics force their religion on people instead of letting them convert on their own time.
People will still jump on Greenpeace's bandwagon if they're working to hurt Apple though. I'm sure most people on this site never cared about this issue until Greenpeace started brought it to light, and suddenly they care.
10. thephoneguy92 (Posts: 191; Member since: 29 Dec 2011)
And you are the type of people who don't care about something that is potentially harming the planet. I don't care if this was apple, samsung or htc, this is a problem. Stop being ridiculous.
13. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
What I should have mentioned is that I do support companies switching to more environmentally-friendly, energy efficient methods: it only makes sense in the long-term. However, as I said, this is something that can't reasonably be fixed in the time-frame that Greenpeace is demanding, at least without economic sacrifice that would most likely result in layoffs. Forgive me for also thinking about the well-being of this company's workers.
Also, you would have made your point much stronger if you cut "potentially." I "potentially" harm the planet by walking on grass everyday.
27. ardent1 (Posts: 2000; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
Commentator -- don't be a hypocrite. If you really are concerned about the environment, then don't upgrade your cellphone until the last possible moment. Better yet, don't using a computer or wireless devices and save the environment. Your hypocriscy knows no bounds.
32. kanagadeepan (Posts: 762; Member since: 24 Jan 2012)
That idea is a little bit harsh, imho... I just give my old phone to my staff/relative, who then use it for another two+ years.. That is also a better way to save environment, imho...
33. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
Hypocrisy? I'm advocating living as a rational human being. Rational people understand how to balance caring for the environment and being productive. Acquiring new phones and using computers increases my productivity, and therefore my net value to society and the world, so long as my intentions are to their benefit. I believe they are, and you really have no say on the matter. For comparison, I don't believe lying down in front of trains is not rational behavior, and my beliefs are that Greenpeace is going about this in the wrong way. I also suspect that a lot of so-called "fandroids" will rally to the cause of Greenpeace simply because they are protesting Apple. While I'm not too keen on what Greenpeace is doing, I do think they deserve more passionate support than just that from people concerned over what amounts to an insignificant squabble between two operating systems.
15. 14545 (Posts: 1250; Member since: 22 Nov 2011)
Give me a break. Using your words. "Potentially". Ie, meaning not proven well enough to be considered fact.
26. ardent1 (Posts: 2000; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
Most educated people already know China uses coal to generate much of the country's power needs -- that is, the power to build a crapload of electronic products for US consumers such as android smartphones and tablets, besides iOS devices, MS-OS based computers, etc.
This is really NOT news. People weren't complaining when the price of desktops and laptops were cheaper due to production in mainland China.
34. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
This issue doesn't concern coal power in China. From what I've heard, Chinese environmental regulations are atrocious. I'm not arguing that, so don't change the subject. This issue concerns an American company that claims it has been reducing emissions and closing dirty coal plants.
37. ardent1 (Posts: 2000; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
Commentator, don't change the SUBJECT -- you wrote: "I'm sure most people on this site never cared about this issue until Greenpeace started brought it to light, and suddenly they care."
Again, you are mistaken. The amount of coal that Apple will use is TINY in relation to the amount of coal that mainland China uses to make all the crap that US consumers buy. That is the hyprocrisy.
American consumers are DIRECTLY responsible for much of the population in pollution in mainland China and the rest of the world. The truth is American consumers want cheap things and many really don't really care about the enviroment. Do you know how many cell phones are thrown away each year in the US??
40. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
Okay, let's take a step back and analyse the argument here, because I think something got lost in translation:
We both agree that the environment is being put at risk by manufacturers of electronics, and we both seem to agree that the average American consumer doesn't care.
To be clear, I NEVER claimed that I cared for the environment (although I do) so don't go around making grandiose statements like "your hypocrisy knows no bounds." Rhetoric like that should be reserved for movies, TV shows, etc.
What it looks like we disagree on is a) how Greenpeace is going about enacting change and b) that Android fanboys suddenly care about the environment because Greenpeace is protesting Apple.
This being the case, I'll make my argument again for each:
a) I personally don't believe that Greenpeace's protests are effective towards their own cause, especially since the company they're protesting has been making strides towards cleaner coal-power. If they were to protest Apple's use of China's coal-power, or an American company that is not cleaning itself up, I wouldn't have as much of a problem.
b) My problem with certain commenters on this site is that they tend to make everything out as "good vs. Apple" without understanding or caring about the actual situation. People need to realize that, especially in this situation, Android manufacturers are just as responsible for environmental problems as Apple is; Greenpeace is targeting Apple because they're the most valuable company in the world right now, thus protesting them makes a larger statement than if they protested HTC or Samsung.
I hope this can help settle our differences.
2. -box- (Posts: 3967; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
Instead of blocking the trains (dangerous) why not block the mines and/or power plants? It'd cost apple more money if the coal were already mined but sitting unused than interrupting the train (which also causes collateral interference for other goods and services moved by the same railway and trains)
28. ardent1 (Posts: 2000; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
Why is it okay for mainland China to use coal to power its plants to make android handset so android users can have the latest android devices?
Would people stop being hypocrites for a change. American consumers buy so much junk (shoes, clothing, computers, etc) from mainland China, and these same American comsumers should be intelligent enough to know how much coal mainland China uses to make said consumer products.
Please just stop the madness!
39. rn9215 (Posts: 45; Member since: 05 Mar 2012)
Its at least a step forward to stop using coal....we must discourage usage of dirty energy sources where ever it may be!!
And stop with the android-apple bull sh*t...it has nothing to do with it!
3. RaKithAPeiRiZ (Posts: 1459; Member since: 29 Dec 2011)
only way to stop iCoal is for them to stop using iProducts
4. ivanko34 (Posts: 617; Member since: 04 Sep 2011)
Poor apple. Nobody likes them.
8. gallitoking (Posts: 4704; Member since: 17 May 2011)
they dont want to be liked as long as they buy their products...
30. akshaye.shenoi (Posts: 24; Member since: 16 Apr 2012)
Does the Like meter respond to your dull-witted statement?
7. Republican (Posts: 99; Member since: 05 Apr 2012)
How dare they oppose Apple? To Guantanamo with them. Time for some waterboarding. Nobody can impede the progress of the Free Markets and be allowed to go unpunished.
9. shadowcell (Posts: 300; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Greenpeace, in case you haven't heard but coal is the primary fuel source for the mass majority of the USA. You want change? Please feel free to invest into nuclear power or other alternative renewable resources for fuel.
12. shadowcell (Posts: 300; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)
Actually after thinking about it, Apple IS a hypocrite. They force Foxconnn to change their labor policies and work environment but yet they can't seek alternatives for powering their data center.
14. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
Maybe they can put some of their ungodly profits into the issue.
31. akshaye.shenoi (Posts: 24; Member since: 16 Apr 2012)
FYI Apple's new Headquarter under construction in Cupertino is extremely energy efficient. 13,000 trees are supposedly surrounding the spaceship like building. Plus they have their own power plant which uses 'clean' energy. Check it out.
/251634/apples_spaceshiplike_h eadquarters_to_be_shrouded_by_ trees.html
11. downphoenix (Posts: 2725; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)
If I remember correctly, isnt this particular Apple center supposed to be using Renewable resources to power the place? I remember Apple braggin about that. Dumb for Greenpeace to block the tracks, clever of them to put Apple logos on the train, bad of Apple to lie about their power sources.
16. rallyguy (Posts: 615; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)
"chaining themselves to train tracks used by Duke Energy and Apple to ship coal"
So Apple is involved in the transportation of coal? Common people. The only way Apple is involved in this is a certain amount of the electricity they run their server center on is from coal. Apple doesn't ship it, and Apple doesn't buy coal. Apple buys the end result.
20. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)
Obviously, you've never worked with coal, the end results of coal are far worse than coal itself.
18. I_Slap_Fat_Kids (Posts: 39; Member since: 04 May 2012)
The train should have hit them...
I honestly hate Greenpeace nearly to the extent which I hate the Westboro Baptist Church. It's not because I'm against being environmentally friendly or conserving resources, it's because I disagree with the methods of their activism. Such protest is the kind of thing that scares people away from helping these matters due to its extremist, and in this case criminal, nature. This leads to more harm than good by dividing people and putting them at odds with each other, as opposed to bringing them together to support a common goal. They should stick to legal methods of influencing policy such as litigation, lawful protest, and advertising campaigns.
19. ap1989 (Posts: 145; Member since: 12 Oct 2011)
stop buying apple products and buy android great way to protest
36. Commentator (Posts: 2849; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
Are you sure about that? Do you think Android manufacturers really care that much more about the environment?
21. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)
People dont seem to understand how hard it would be to stop depending on coal. I think most people truly dont understand what all coal is used for.
it is not only a power souce, its a major ingredient in steel making, tar and concrete.
the by products or coal are fly ash, tar, multiple gases, and coke.
Fly ash-major component of concrete, fly ash is what actually alows the concrete to set and harden when mixed with water
Tar- used for paving roads repairs ect ect.....
coke- ingredient that is mixed with iron ore, this is how steel is made.
Coal is not just something we can get rid of, if we did that means multiple industries would take a huge hit, not just the power industry
25. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)
See, not all us steel workers are mindless goones, lol
22. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
greenpeace only latched on to this because they know Apple would be mentioned, which brings the headlines.
Lets be honest. Hippies wont let us build more nuclear reactors which are 100x safer than the ones we built 40 years ago... which are still running.. hippies wont let us drill for oil, or even natural gas without issues.. You cant force the world to change its fuel source over night. Period.
As far as the apple part of this story. After all the goblygook about their new headquarters and its reduced carbon footprint, I'm dissapointed in them that they didnt put at least solar panels on the roof to offset some of their electric usage. At least then they could claim to be trying to reduce pollution.
Thats the 2 faces of Apple.. The public face that "talks" about being more green, and the private face that wants it a cheap as possible regardless of where it comes from.
24. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)
this move from greenpeace doesnt surprise me, i used to work for a contractor and we were out at a power plant in southern ill.
One night a group from greenpeace had snuck onto the plant via the cannal, and painted "coal is murder" on all the smoke stacks.
29. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
what a bunch of morons.
for one month i wish they would live without everything oil, coal, and everything else provides. No plastics, most medicines disappear, no electricity, paved roads, computers, synthetic fibers of all sorts, and about 95% of what makes us a modern society.
I bet half of them run home to their air conditioned houses within 2 weeks. frikkin morons.