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Japanese court rules that Samsung wrongly used its FRAND patents to seek Apple sales ban

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Japanese court rules that Samsung wrongly used its FRAND patents to seek Apple sales ban
A Japanese District Court ruled this week that Samsung used its Standards Essential patents in an attempt to get the court to force a sales ban against Apple. At the same time, Samsung was using these patents to try to grab higher royalties than normal, from its rival. Because these patents are required to produce certain products, negotiations to secure a licensing agreement for them are supposed to be conducted using FRAND terms. In other words, setting royalty rates for these patents should be done in a fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory manner.

Samsung was accused of abusing its FRAND patents in Japan by failing to negotiate in good faith as required under the Japanese civil code. It was also accused of admitting that its patent was essential for Apple to build the iPhone using the 3GPP standard, but then tried to win a sales ban against Apple by using the very same patent. Courts around the globe have not looked too kindly on companies that try to get a sales ban while negotiating royalties on a FRAND patent. Some might even consider it blackmail. We're not sure what the legal terminology is, but let's just say that it is a 'Bozo no-no.'

Samsung also failed to disclose its patent until two years after the ETSI standards body adopted its invention as a standard part that every phone manufacturer would have to license, in order to produce a working phone. As a result, the court ruled that Samsung had no business requesting a sales ban against Apple, and capped the price that Apple has to pay to license the Standards Essential patent from Sammy to 9.9 million Yen ($95,000 USD).

Just the other day, Apple and Google's Motorola Mobility dropped all suits against each other and reached a settlement. It seems that the animosity between Apple and Samsung runs too deep for such a settlement to take place between those two tech titans.

source: AppleInsider

49 Comments
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posted on 18 May 2014, 22:16 13

1. dontneedtoknow (Posts: 152; Member since: 17 Feb 2014)


Yet Apple is the patent troll which is backed by US court.

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:23 17

4. Arte-8800 (banned) (Posts: 4562; Member since: 13 Mar 2014)


Apple the "Patent Troll company"

And backed by president Obama

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:01 8

9. Ashoaib (Posts: 2374; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)


Yup! Its black mailing if others do it but its white mailing when apple do the same... this patent worth is 95000$ bcoz its not apple's patent... might be a billion dollar worth if it was an apple's patent

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:47

14. rantao333 (Posts: 267; Member since: 21 May 2013)


Dint read?

posted on 19 May 2014, 07:21 1

36. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6678; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)


And the Japanese are blind simpleton fools taken the fruit side.

posted on 19 May 2014, 14:49

44. androtaku (Posts: 196; Member since: 12 Dec 2013)


they are probably cleverer than you

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:18 3

2. sprockkets (Posts: 1309; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)


Too many things they all do that are stupid making it never a black and white issue.

Both should just move on.

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:47 4

13. networkdood (Posts: 6310; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


Apple will not let this go, so, of course Samsung is going to sue them at every turn as retribution...

posted on 19 May 2014, 17:58 1

45. PBXtech (Posts: 980; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


That's likely it, and I'm sure Samsung feels their honor has been tarnished by Apple's ridiculous claims and bans. Both need to work this out and move on.

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:22 9

3. mturby (Posts: 269; Member since: 09 Jan 2013)


so many courts cant be wrong! apple=troll; samsung=copycat.

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:24 11

5. Arte-8800 (banned) (Posts: 4562; Member since: 13 Mar 2014)


Wrong

Apple=Troll

Samsung=innovation

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:27 4

6. amats69 (Posts: 1125; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)


innovation?? SERIOUSLY?

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:36 9

7. Arte-8800 (banned) (Posts: 4562; Member since: 13 Mar 2014)


OK revolution

If not evolution

posted on 18 May 2014, 22:46 7

8. pwnarena (Posts: 958; Member since: 15 Feb 2013)


we can't deny samsung's innovations. what we can agree on, however, is that its success was built on being a copycat. the company has come a long way. they should just make amends with their past mistakes although i think they are unlikely to regret doing what they did when it meant the kind of success they have now.

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:37 5

10. willard12 (Posts: 864; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)


"Good artists copy, great artists steal." - Samsung CEO.......Oh wait, I mean Apple CEO

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:49

15. ardent1 (Posts: 1997; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


...ideas."

Samsung steals IP. Enough said.

posted on 19 May 2014, 00:11 2

20. willard12 (Posts: 864; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)


Stolen ideas that become someone else's IP is known as patent trolling. But glad to see you support Apple making money on the ideas of others. Enough said.

posted on 19 May 2014, 11:30 1

41. tedkord (Posts: 5110; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


As per the ITC and the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, so does Apple.

posted on 19 May 2014, 18:00 1

46. PBXtech (Posts: 980; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


An idea is the heart of what makes a patent. Apple has patented many ideas of others.

posted on 19 May 2014, 07:22

37. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6678; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)


Both companies don't know anything bout innovation so please STOP using that word.

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:53 1

17. The13thKing (banned) (Posts: 849; Member since: 26 Feb 2014)


and the other brands fall into "graveyard" (nokia blackberry) "copycat" (lg and china) "haters" (sony) and "wannabes" (htc)

posted on 19 May 2014, 00:07 3

19. StraightEdgeNexus (Posts: 3585; Member since: 14 Feb 2014)


Wrong; apple=bigger copycat. One who shamelessly rips off features from others and still pretend innovating.

posted on 19 May 2014, 00:56 2

22. androiphone20 (Posts: 1507; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)


Care to explain how? (with links if need be)

posted on 19 May 2014, 00:59 4

24. StraightEdgeNexus (Posts: 3585; Member since: 14 Feb 2014)


Android notification drawer, web os cards style multitasking, toggles and much more.

posted on 19 May 2014, 01:08 1

25. androiphone20 (Posts: 1507; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)


And your link to that?

posted on 19 May 2014, 01:45 3

28. vincelongman (Posts: 1583; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


Where the iOS 7 features came from originally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrM25jqhXdA
Also some other thing here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0

I'd agreed that Google, MS, Samsung, HTC, Sony,... everyother OEM/software developer, have also copied to some degree before as well

posted on 19 May 2014, 02:13

29. androiphone20 (Posts: 1507; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)


Please see post #26

posted on 19 May 2014, 18:01 1

47. PBXtech (Posts: 980; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


http://everythingisaremix.info/blog/everything-is-a-remix-case-study-the-iphone

posted on 19 May 2014, 01:11

26. androiphone20 (Posts: 1507; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)


Listen, Apple PAYS for royalties for the technology they use and we all know that Samsung copies then tries by any means necessary to avoid paying anything.

posted on 19 May 2014, 03:47 3

31. willard12 (Posts: 864; Member since: 04 Jul 2012)


The very article you're currently commenting on is about Apple not paying for FRAND patents. I can post a link to this article if necessary.

Apple is one of the few companies that does not PAY royalties to Neonode who have slide to unlock in IP (coincidentally it was also Neonode's idea). Yet, Apple has sued Samsung, HTC, and Motorola over it.
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/analyst_apple_may_buy_swipe_to_unlock_company/

Rather than PAYING royalties to Android for pattern unlock, Apple filed its own patent.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/04/17/iphone-android-pattern-unlock-apple-patent/

It's amazing that people say so many things that are easily disproven in an effort to paint a positive picture of Apple.

posted on 19 May 2014, 06:29

33. androiphone20 (Posts: 1507; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)


Have you noticed in all of those cases Apple has either been coming up with a workaround or in this case settling for an amount (same as with the Motorola case)?. Is that not how it works? I guess I understand you in a way, Sometimes people try to expose what's wrong with you because they can't handle what's right with you.

posted on 19 May 2014, 07:03 2

35. AfterShock (Posts: 2895; Member since: 02 Nov 2012)


Taxes too, or just royalties?

Apple dont pay where they can get away with it at every step.

posted on 19 May 2014, 11:36 2

42. tedkord (Posts: 5110; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


The still haven't paid a dime for Samsung's FRAND patents, and were ruled to have used Samsung's gallery IP without paying. So there goes that theory.

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:44

11. networkdood (Posts: 6310; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


wow, "BIG MONEY....BIG PRIZES....I LOVE IT!"

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:54

18. networkdood (Posts: 6310; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


That was a phrase from the game SMASH TV...

posted on 19 May 2014, 21:56

49. roscuthiii (Posts: 1863; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)


I've lost many a quarter to SMASH TV. Ahhh... memories.

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:46

12. networkdood (Posts: 6310; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


Well, Apple is doing well in Japan, according to that article on marketshare, a while back...

posted on 18 May 2014, 23:49 2

16. joey_sfb (Posts: 3113; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)


Compete with great products! Let consumer decide what they want.

posted on 19 May 2014, 00:44 3

21. number29 (Posts: 185; Member since: 25 Jan 2013)


It still baffles me that people think of Apple as a patent troll when here we have a court smacking Samsung down for abusing their patents. People, it's perfectly OK to admit Apple is right; it doesn't mean you have to buy their products.

posted on 19 May 2014, 00:58 1

23. androiphone20 (Posts: 1507; Member since: 10 Jul 2013)


It's a price Apple has to pay for being at the top

posted on 19 May 2014, 08:04 3

38. sbw44 (Posts: 404; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)


True dude, I once also thought of apple being this big patent troll and still these people here defend samsung! After all this samsung is still the right one and the others are wrong!

Not to mention if you mention Sony,Nokia,Apple etc you are considered here a troll but if you mention samsung... nothing!

But there you Sammy, once a cheater always a cheater!

posted on 19 May 2014, 08:13 1

39. joey_sfb (Posts: 3113; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)


Japan is still very much an apple land with more than 50% market share.

So much for 'Make in Japan'. Japanese are so proud of.

posted on 19 May 2014, 11:15 1

40. Odiin (Posts: 295; Member since: 23 Apr 2013)


+ U nailed it dude! Best comment!

posted on 19 May 2014, 11:38 3

43. tedkord (Posts: 5110; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


They're not a patent troll, they patent system abusers. See "a tap is just a zero length swipe."

posted on 19 May 2014, 18:05

48. PBXtech (Posts: 980; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


They've lost in my book because they've lowered their standards and tactics to that of their rival Apple. Should have kept it clean and taken the higher moral ground.

I still think both need to work this out and move on, it's getting ridiculously old now.

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