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  • Charlie Rose interviews Apple design guru Jony Ive: "You have to reject reason to innovate"

Charlie Rose interviews Apple design guru Jony Ive: "You have to reject reason to innovate"

Posted: , by Victor H.

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Charlie Rose interviews Apple design guru Jony Ive:
Apple'с chief design officer Jony Ive is often said to be one of the most influential people at Apple, second only to chief executive Tim Cook. Recently, he has agreed to a lengthy and extremely interesting interview with Charlie Rose to speak up about what makes Apple the company that it is, about the spirit of Steve Jobs that still rules the company, as well as his role as head of design.

And while there is a vast amount of topics that the interview covers, we want to start by highlighting the recurring theme of Jony Ive's points: it is the philosophy of making great products that is the driving force and the raison d'etre of Apple as a company, as opposed to other companies driven by their financial sheets.

"The products are the physical manifestation of a set of believes"


Jony Ive starts out by speaking about the way he first met Steve Jobs at the then very tough for Apple times and shares his experience of a design lab that - at the time - operated very inefficiently, making lots of mockups that never left the design studio. The chief designer also speaks about the shared ability to notice very tiny, obsessive details in products with Steve Jobs and how that vision helped create a deep and long lasting friendship with the iconic Apple CEO.

Switching the topic to his personal self, Jony Ive describes his work persona as someone who is "generally comfortable with being surprised and being wrong ... the first person to raise my hand when something I thought was good turns out to be appalling." This way, by rejecting bad ideas that often come from the top executive saves tremendous amounts of time and effort. And if you're looking for a proof to that, just remember the allegedly Jeff Bezos-backed terrible idea of the Amazon Fire Phone that has cost Amazon years in research and development, and billions of dollars.

"You have to reject reason to innovate"


It is the creative, inventive part of Jony Ive, however, that comes off as the most inspirational one in this latest interview. "I feel part artist, part designer, part engineer, part builder... part craftsman, I think it's a mixture," Ive says, while meditating over the need not to be afraid of the technical challenges, but to reject reason in order to innovate. At the end of the day, Ive says, the consumer might not be available of the tremendous technical breakthroughs behind a product, but will be nonetheless aware of a deep sense of care that went in the products. And that makes all the difference.

Take a look at the full interview right below.


source: Charlie Rose

43 Comments
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posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:29 3

1. KRISTIJANJE (Posts: 43; Member since: 16 Feb 2015)


Well then, reject it already lol

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:38 5

3. Adreno (banned) (Posts: 755; Member since: 12 Mar 2016)


I thinks Ive did that already. Look at the iPhone 6S, nothing different from the iPhone 6 in design.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:09 2

15. BLUEBLASTER (Posts: 275; Member since: 23 Feb 2014)


The S series never are though?

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:15 5

16. Rafishant (Posts: 210; Member since: 13 Oct 2015)


What would Jony Ive say about the two years old design of iPhone 7?
A year ago, people went mad on HTC after they use the same design of M7 on M9.
So now,Apple only changes the antenna lines position and remove the camera hump.. What happen to the innovative design, Mr. Ive?

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:41

25. Iodine (Posts: 1305; Member since: 19 Jun 2014)


Oh and can you tell what apps have you downloaded on your iPhone 7 ?

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 11:08 2

29. Arch_Fiend (Posts: 2074; Member since: 03 Oct 2015)


We don't know the design of the iPhone 7 so quit speculating off a case that is probably fake and a fan made concept.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:34

21. Iodine (Posts: 1305; Member since: 19 Jun 2014)


This just shows you never examined those devices closer than looking at the renders. Their looks might be almost the same, but everything about that phone has been redesigned/changed btw.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 11:08

28. nctx77 (Posts: 1717; Member since: 03 Sep 2013)


Dude, what are you 5 years old. Apple has always made the "s" line the same. They basically make a redesign and keep it the same for 2 years. This has happened since the 3G in 2008.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 12:13

32. AlikMalix (Posts: 5095; Member since: 16 Jul 2014)


I think you misunderstood the phrase. At first I did too, and was like "wtf" but reread it. He says "reject reason in order to innovate" meaning " reject something in order to get something else" - not to reject the reasons to innovate, but "you should not have to wait for a reason to innovate" innovation must come without the need for a reason to innovate.

Kinda like " you have to reject sigarettes in order to live longer"

Hope that markes sense.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 14:25

35. AlikMalix (Posts: 5095; Member since: 16 Jul 2014)


Another way to look at it - the word "reason" here is within the sense of "sensibility". Meaning you have to reject reality in order to inovate" reality has borders, limits, rules - rejecting that reality, means to go beyond the border or limit or brake the rules - and that's where innovation happens.

Personally I didn't like the iPhone 6/6s design - it was a huge letdown. Some aspects of iOS UI and consistency need more tweaking. But I like the vision this man has, and it makes sense why he keeps going thinner - even though the consumer couldn't care less.

Just my thoughts on what he said.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 23:53 2

38. nithyakr (Posts: 148; Member since: 20 Jun 2014)


Yes. It should have been "reject reason, to Innovate". Or "reject reason, in-order to innovate".

But these 12 year old iHaters don't get it!!

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:39 2

24. engineer-1701d (Posts: 3266; Member since: 13 Mar 2014)


what guru he just copied braun design language

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:36 7

2. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


"You have to reject reason to innovate" - Ive

Why would you do such a thing? Is this why IOS has basically remained unchanged since 2007 because "you have to reject reason to innovate"?

Well keep on rejecting yourself right on to the bottom. I won't mind.

Microsoft appears to have thought that once too and see where they are in the mobile market? If it wasn't for RIM and Nokia getting their first, MS would be there already.

When products in general are boring and don't change much year after year, you need something innovative to keep people interested. This is why Blackberry didn't want to be just another Android OEM. This is why Samsung made TouchWiz so they can bring innovations and differentiation to their products, that NO OTHER Android OEM offers and why they are the sales king of Android; no matter what ignorant fanboy haters say.

Thanks Ive. We now understand why the iPhone is just lame and boring. Good luck with your "rejecting reason to innovate" concept. We will see how far that gets you when you don't have a job in 5 years.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:40 12

4. Cyberthing (Posts: 125; Member since: 18 Nov 2014)


How has iOS remained the same since 2007?

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:54 7

10. Wiencon (Posts: 1784; Member since: 06 Aug 2014)


Don't try to reason with him, it's like talking to retarded donkey

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:15 4

18. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Really? Because donkey's aren't retarded. They simply lack the ability to understand.
But I understand that you're an idiot.
If you can't provide a reasonable argument, and you just resort to name calling, then it basically means by point has some validity.

But I wont waste time with name calling...I'm better than that.
You did a good job of making you're self look like an "ass" oh and based on your reply, that's a retarded animal too.

Enjoy you life fruitcakes.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:08 9

14. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


When I say iOS has remained virtually the same, I am speaking about how the device hasn't really added any features above basic phone capability. Force Touch the way Apple rushed an did it offers no real benefit. Liek for example, I have stated this before; it is a good idea for the camera app that I can hold the icon down and get a menu that lets me choose to snap or record. But in the time it takes that to happen, I can just launch the camera and pick either or. It doesn't make you accomplish the same task any faster or better.

The UI is cluttered. First you have the notification screen from the top, then you have to move a separate screen from the bottom for the toggles. Why not make it be all on one screen. So what if that si the way Android has it. It makes perfect sense to have them all on one screen together.

Then the toggles aren't even shortcuts that take you to the settings. All you can do is turn something on an off. Both of these were introduced quite a bit ago and Apple has done nothing to update them to make them more usable.

The settings menu needs a cleanup. I dont understand why when you install an application that has its own settings, it has to be listed in the settings menu and you have to travel all the way to settings, then you have to forever scroll to fine that app, then tap to make changes. At this point, any application that has its own settings, it should be in the app. This has been the same since the very beginning.

But blind ignorant fanboys like Wiencon can't see that because they are so use to doing things ass-backwards, they have no issue with it; but I do.

The concept of UI design is to make completing a task faster. If it takes me 5 steps on iOS to do something I can do in 2 steps on Android, its a problem.

What is the point of calling a device a "smartphone" if its going to make you do things in a "dumb" way?

Apple also still expects us to just trust apps they allow into the store. We have seen recently that rogue apps have still gotten past Apple's application acceptance process and has cause some users harm to the tone of more than 100,000 people. Why is it so hard that when you install an app, it shows a caption that shows what this app does, what it needs access too and how to easily disable or turn it off if I dont want it?

Example...the the new WIFI feature is a good idea. If one signal gets bad, it switches you to another. But it was activated by default, there was no popup on the new phone that says, "click here and learn about this new feature" during settings.

When you buy a new Samsung phone that has a new feature, you get an indicator on the screen that flashes a bit to call attention to it and when you touch, a small panel appears showing you what it is, how it works and you can then check a box so it doesn't appear again and they are easy to turn off if you want. Does you iPhone do this? NO

This makes iPhone be non-intuitive.

posted on 15 Mar 2016, 17:14

41. Cyberthing (Posts: 125; Member since: 18 Nov 2014)


I kind of see what you're saying. You strayed a bit but I agree with half of your points.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:36 2

22. Iodine (Posts: 1305; Member since: 19 Jun 2014)


It's iOS - so it's Apple - so iHaters hate it - and hate is always the same thing.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:53 4

26. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


And you're just stupid. I must not hate iOS if I am asking for them to make it better even if better means using someone else idea to make what you have better.

You ever watch those videos renders from people who want Apple to bring better innovative ideas to iOS? Those ideas many of them look very good and very well thought out. I saw a video where a guy shows better usage for Force Touch especially with the toggles. All were 100% doable and were very good ideas.

Apple needs to bring that stuff.

Imagine what Apple Pay would be if Apple had bought LoopPay. With all the banks they already have onboard and will add soon. Imagaine if you could use both NFC and MagStrip.

Again, Apple has $200B just collecting dust. What have we seen them really spend money on since 2007? Not much when you compare them to other OEM.

Apple still buys other companies and uses their ideas and shove them into their devices. Sometimes its good like with the Fingerprint reader. But Siri really didnt make that big of a splash. Apple Maps has gotten better, but still pales compared to Google Maps. iAds didnt take off. Apple's version of Facebook failed.

Then they also runined good things. When they bought Beats Music, the first thing I mentioned even before they did it was, Apple already offers free streaming radio, watch they take it and make you pay for it...and sure enough that is xactly what they did.

Now you have to pay for Apple music to get streaming radio, and then if you want to upload your music, you have to pay a separate fee for that too.

With Google I get free streaming radio, so does iHeart and Spotify, I can upload 50,000 songs for FREE and its available to any device whether its an Android or not. Apple is so selfish I can even use any of their services on another brand. All this to basically trap you in so they get tons of money and the only thing they give you in return, is more ways to take more money from you. That is a terrible business model, ask IBM.

posted on 16 Mar 2016, 15:24

42. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Really? So because you liek it the way it is, that means it should be improved. Got it! Now I know you're a complete idiot. You don't even need to retort, I wont respond back to stupidity. Going to learn how to ignore people like you.

The stuff I said is 100% true and has been said of iPhone users themselves.

Example, take Windows. When you need to make settings changes to apps, where are the settings? IN THE APP.

The only time you should EVER have to visit system settings, is if what you are changing effects the whole OS, not the app itself.

Again, your point is simple. You have grown to accept garbage the way its presented to you and you are happy even if its never approved.

Taking 5 steps for something that can be done in 2 or 3 is lame for any brand of smartphone.

Again, just like a typical fanboy. You can't provide a reasonable argument to what I said, so you instantly resort to name calling, which means my point is valid. If it isn't the whole point of a forum is to share your opinion.

You opinion is always the same. Hate this and hate that. Well I hate you're an idiot and I hate this post you made because it offers nothing worth it. You could have just said nothing.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:58 18

11. another1 (Posts: 157; Member since: 25 Dec 2015)


TechieXP = Moron who thinks he's actually intelligent

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:15 9

17. wando77 (Posts: 808; Member since: 23 Aug 2012)


All of his above comments are true. Phonearena always goes knabout how simple ios is but I agree that it's a mess seperate settings menus for each app like on android is far simpler. As is a single drag down from the top for toggles and notifications. Only a blind fan wouldn't see this

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:22 3

19. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


I would like to hear "more on" who thinks he's actually intelligent.
Why don't you explain. I explain my reasoning, now man up and give yours.

I could just drop a fanboy one liner and call someone a name. But you must be a moron since you seem to be educated very well on knowing what one is.

I'm sorry I can sound like an uneducated moron such as yourself who can't give a reasonable argument, with name calling and dropping some fanboy one liner so you can get a quick green thumbs from other idiots who think just like you.

You are always welcome to argue my point. If you can't argue it, then that means its a valid one. Why not stick with the article vs just coming here to insult people.

Because the reality is fool, when your very first post of the day is to attack someone, for basically no reason; you're the one that looks more like an idiot and so does all the idiots who agree with you.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 10:53 3

27. lyndon420 (Posts: 3878; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)


Kinda hard to call out people for name calling with you seem to be excelling at it yourself don't you think?

posted on 16 Mar 2016, 15:27

43. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


Must not be since people do it here all the time. Or maybe you can prove that valid point wrong.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 12:18

34. RobotMan (Posts: 145; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)


Don't waste your time explaining as they will never understand.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:46

5. wando77 (Posts: 808; Member since: 23 Aug 2012)


What a load of horse apple

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:46 4

6. NexusX (Posts: 482; Member since: 16 May 2013)


he said "reject reason IN ORDER innovate"

I need to stop coming to applebashingarena

this place is full of 12 year olds who can't read past the headlines and click-bait articles

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:50

7. VZWuser76 (Posts: 3794; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)


For someone who's English he has a poor grasp of the English language.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:51 2

8. Landon (Posts: 404; Member since: 07 May 2015)


This guy's got Permanent Butthurt Face.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:51 2

9. jeevanand88 (Posts: 152; Member since: 11 Feb 2016)


reject reason to innovate means that he is giving the way for innovative ideas... isnt what he meant!!? or am i worng? the comments are far away from what he actually said... Sorry if im wrong!!

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 12:16

33. AlikMalix (Posts: 5095; Member since: 16 Jul 2014)


So far you're the only one that sees it... See my post # 32 above.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 08:58

12. promise7 (Posts: 869; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)


I've been pretty disappointed in Ive's designs as of late. The antenna lines on the 6, the battery case, the way you charge the Apple mouse and Pencil, the dotted 5c case, and to a lesser extent the lack of any major redesign for the tablet lines. The only thing I've thought was a impressive design since the passing of Jobs is the redesigned Mac Pro.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:05 5

13. Zomer (Posts: 254; Member since: 31 May 2013)


I'm a big, big Apple fan, but the latest products that were designed are a bit boring: iPhone 6, 6s and the Apple Watch don't look as good as for example the iPhone 5s did.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 15:44

36. AlikMalix (Posts: 5095; Member since: 16 Jul 2014)


I'm a Huge Apple fan too and I grew with you. You play AfterPulse by any chance?

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:30

20. twens (Posts: 955; Member since: 25 Feb 2012)


I am not an apple fun but for the past 2 years I have been using an iPhone and it's true it is boring. I love the OS but I think it can be more flexible and feature packed. My main reason for using Apple is very funny but true especially in my country. iPhones can hold their price much longer than android phones and that's my reason for using an iPhone. When I'm broke and want to sell my iPhone I can get a good money for it. If Samsung can can make a phone that holds its value for a much longer period I'll ditch Apple before they can say "hey!" . Lol

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 09:36 1

23. TechieXP1969 (Posts: 8478; Member since: 25 Sep 2013)


To me it sounds like Ive is admitting he's ran out of ideas for the iPhone and Apple needs a new person to bring some innovation to the device.

At this point the iPhone/iPad needs more than copying ideas from another OEM and just taking the next step. Its needs a complete refresh of its concepts and make then straight-forward and better.

The latest iPhone render that PA keeps posting that looks like the iPhone 5S, but is also liek the iPhone 6 models would be a nice start. The device needs AMOLED which has proven to be better than backlit LCD panels, which use far less battery even at high resolution and are more color accurate. The iPhone shoudl have some type of fast charging. Why does it still take nearly 3 hours to charge up a phone with such a small battery, when some phones have one significant larger and charge in around 90mins on average?

The mics on the iPhone still record audio in a muffled tone. When you ply audio back that you recorded, it sounds like you have you mouth covered.

Instead of following trends that are useful, they want to rush and add useless junk like Force Touch which may be a good idea eventually considering the iPhone only has a single button, but the present implementation is lame.

The display is bigger now. Why not add a couple buttons onscreen that disappear when not being used? Or how about we don't add so many gestures to just one button. The Home button has so many gestures, that it is easy to activate something I didnt want to come on.

The design isn't terrible, it simply could be better. Use magnesium. Its nice premium feeling, but more resilient. Its not as soft as aluminum and it doesn't chip very easily.

Fix the camera so that its wide angled vs making everything look like it was shot from inside a fish tank.

I mean, lately they seem no to be able to get small things right. Yet people brag about them having so much money. You can have all the money in the world, but ti doesn't mean anything if you don't spend it.

Other OEM are spending their money and you can see it in their products. When you actually have real competition and you want to stay on top, you can't afford to "reject innovation". After all, what is the point of making something if it isn't innovative?

This is why Steve Wozniak was a much better person vs ive and anyone else Apple has had other than Steve Jobs on some level. Because Woz understands that evolution isn't always enough. That you do have to reach for something better. Its more than thinking of something no one thought of before, its about adding it in a positive way to make it really stand out. That requires innovation. If he wants to reject it, then he is hurting the brand.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 11:20

30. jeroome86 (Posts: 858; Member since: 12 Apr 2012)


Top notch designer. Bring us the goods.

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 11:23 2

31. nebula (Posts: 518; Member since: 20 Feb 2015)


This should be ABC for every company who first wants to make great product rather than to make lots of money from a start. That's exactly the reason why so many OEM's fail to succeed .

posted on 14 Mar 2016, 16:47 2

37. Veigald (Posts: 290; Member since: 13 Jan 2012)


These Apple worship pieces are straight up pointless. It's been years since Apple innovated anything, and Ive is one of the reasons for that. Enough already, off with the emperor's new clothes.

posted on 15 Mar 2016, 02:05 1

39. roscuthiii (Posts: 2190; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)


Apple's not about the financials?! Wtf did I just read??? About $180B in long term investments, highest margin per device of the large mobile companies, lowest percentage of R&D spending, proprietary everything, oh... When exactly did they start paying dividends on their stocks, and all the money kept offshore so it can't be taxed.... Yeah, they're not all about the financials at all.

posted on 15 Mar 2016, 08:02 1

40. Adreno (banned) (Posts: 755; Member since: 12 Mar 2016)


That's true. Apple is all about profits. Nothing else matters.

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