Apple says Samsung is harassing it with the demands to see the next iPhone and iPad 3
1. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Samsung just wants to make sure it isnt copying Apple. Whats the problem?
9. p0rkguy (Posts: 683; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)
Everybody knows that isn't Samsung's real intentions but that's more then enough to hold in court. If it doesn't Samsung doesn't have to give a shit about future lawsuits from Apple for patent infringement.
Apple wants to prevent Samsung from releasing products like theirs.
Samsung is doing exactly that by checking out Apple's new products in order to prevent future lawsuits. Now Apple is crying harassment on how it doesn't have any relevance to the case? Wasn't that the main reason Apple is even suing Samsung? What the f**k is Apple crying about?
14. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
Apple wants to be the only game in town.
Samsung has just as much risk with their products in the hands of Apple. This is so childish. Apple makes a mockery of the court sysytem every time they file for some sort of lawsuit. I feel sorry for the millions of Apple fans that have their money going towards ignorant litigation practices.
Personally, I even think it's a little irresponsible for the court to allow Apple OR Samsung to have access to each other's products. Both have the risk. The court should be in total control of the evidence(s); not Apple.
85. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
You're not understanding the deal here. Or maybe you just refuse to see the BIG difference. Samsung wants to see UNRELEASED Apple products ahead of time to make sure that Apple does not infringe on any of their patents. But on what grounds? How can you say that an unreleased product will infringe any of your patents.
Apple is asking for Samsung's already announced and launched devices. Has the ipad3 and iphone5 been announced and launched already? No one even knows what the next iphone would be called, lol.
114. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
I'm not overlooking anything. My point is, that neither Apple nor Samsung should be handling each other's products regardless of released or unreleased.
The court should be in total control with bringing in software engineers and experts to perform the necessary requirements for evidence. Unbiased if you will. Otherwise, this is the equivalent of Apple presiding over their own case.
120. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Lol. So you think that the court just woke up the next day Apple filed their complaint and ordered Samsung to furnish Apple a couple of units of their devices? Of course the court had to check out Apple's presented evidences and look into it before making such an order.
Now, what evidence can Samsung show the court of future ipad and iphone devices to convince the court that Apple is infringing on their patents when none of the idevices have been launched yet? Lol.
129. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
So in other words, Apple has the right to say murder was committed before a murder even took place?
Samsung is being blindsided by having no proof of what is in the next iteration of Apple's new products. How does anyone know if there is an infringment? Because Apple says so? So the court rules that Samsung must turn over their product to Apple for Apple to decide? Does this mean the court will totally rely on Apple's prognosis? It certainly seems the judge doesn't hold much confidence in his/her tools that are at their dispense in determining a fair judgement.
No one says the court is ignorant, but this is ridiculous. That is like a court ruling that a shooting victim from their own gun has to turn over their gun to the perpetrator and the perpetrator says: "Nope, not the same gun". So the perpetrator goes free.
Apple is suing Samsung. They need to present the evidence that Samsung is doing so. It is the basic litigation process. It is Attorneys of Apple's responsibilities to provide Burden of Proof(evidence) and it is soley up to the court to examine the evidence for ruling. Legally, Samsung does not need to provide any unless ordered by the court by which should ONLY be examined by the court and their experts. Witnesses are brought in by the court and only by the court. In this case it should be experts not tied to Apple. Apple should NOT be allowed to handle evidence outside the court.
Besides all this, why doesn't Apple just purchase a Samsung handset rather than demand them to turn it over. It would have the same effect. This is all a game and a joke.
2. alec (unregistered)
i understand why they might not be able to show them the ipad 3 but the iphone 5/4s should be released to the public in like 3 months so they should have a pretty good idea of what it will include
3. gallitoking (Posts: 4684; Member since: 17 May 2011)
I bet Sammy wouldnt like if Apple wants to see the SGIII right?... they both great products for different kinds of consumer... cant wait for the end results on this one...
10. p0rkguy (Posts: 683; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)
Samsung isn't the one crying right now is it?
13. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
Apple didn't ask to see the SG3 though, how ignorant are you?
17. p0rkguy (Posts: 683; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)
Then I guess that's Apple's fault isn't it? How ignorant are you?
So let's get this straight.
Apple requests Samsung devices, Samsung agrees.
Samsung requests Apple devices, Apple cries.
I don't know about you but it seems like Apple is being a little bitch. Looks like you're a fanboy of a little bitch.
87. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Samsung has to agree because they're ordered by the court silly, lol. On what grounds is Samsung asking for copies of Apple's unreleased devices? Do they even know what those idevices would look like for them to think that Apple will be infringing on their designs?
Know the difference. The devices that Apple is asking from Samsung are devices that have already been launched and have pictures everywhere. The ipad3 and the next iphone are nowhere to be found. Don't act dumb, ok.
118. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
When a plantiff brings litigation into the court, it is up to that party to prove without reasonable doubt that they have been done wrong.
Basically, Apple needs to prove to Samsung that infringements have been commmitted. Not the other way around. So Samsung should be shown what intellectual property might be breached. Apple is secret, but they are not above the law. They brought the case to court, they need to be willing to sacrifice some security. If not, then keep litigation under wraps until the product is released.
Samsung is coy enough to play devil's advocate here. If Apple wants to play the game, Samsung will return the favor.
122. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Which part of the court oder did you not understand? The court gave that order to Samsung because Apple's complaint was strongly supported.
And yes, as soon as Apple finds something, they will let the court and Samsung know. Every company has the right to trade secrets. It does not mean you're above the law.
You're still not getting it. The said Samsung devices have not yet been released to the public BUT have already been launched. There are official specs and photos of it everywhere, which Apple used as their evidence. The next ipad and iphone are nowhere to be found. So what's Samsung's evidence to convince the court that the next ipad and iphone is infringing on their patents when they don't even know what it looks like. Oh my gosh.
130. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
---" The next ipad and iphone are nowhere to be found. So what's Samsung's evidence to convince the court that the next ipad and iphone is infringing on their patents when they don't even know what it looks like."---
This is my exact point. Samsung has no idea yet it is Apple looking for evidence. You have it backwards. Samsung should be looking for evidence.
133. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
---" And yes, as soon as Apple finds something, they will let the court and Samsung know."---
Shouldn't that have been thought of before the case filling?
If the product is unreleased, it becomes a unicorn. People can say they have one, but where is the evidence to prove it is legitimate?
Samsung's request maybe outlandish, but what proof do THEY have that Apple's next iteration is exactly what will be a working release? It is all speculation at this point. Samsung deserves to have evidence of such a product if they are going to be accused. Samsung's request at this point, is simply to imply a parody to a perceived joke to call out Apple. Pictures of a product not yet in use, is not sufficient. No launched product, no evidence. You ate my lunch. Oh really? Prove it. How do we know that Apple may not have secretly incorporated some Samsung tech without their permission in the new iteration of iproducts? Apple is suing Samsung. Samsung has a right to say: "Prove it" on equal and level playing field.
137. clevername (Posts: 1428; Member since: 11 Jul 2008)
You need to have a better understanding of our court system. In a civil case(law suits, not criminal) the plaintiff does not need to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Perfect example was the the Goldman family lawsuit against oj Simpson. He was found innocent in the criminal case. That was beyond reasonable doubt. He was found guilty, meaning financially liable in the civil case. Two different courts. Two different criteria.
So, Apple does not need to prove within a reasonable doubt. This is not a trial by jury.
And lastly Apple did not ask for trade secrets. They asked for on market products. Samsung is asking for trade secrets.
31. gallitoking (Posts: 4684; Member since: 17 May 2011)
@applefanboy let me write it in terms u would understand.... i u s e d t h e w o r d.....IF wihch means in the event of...
33. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
@gallitoking: that wasn't meant for you man, it was for the idiot up there
36. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 3840; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
See but everybody copies everyone, where does it stop? How far back must we go to see who the original culprit was? Apple made Samsung show them their products, so Apple needs to do the same in response. Again this would not be happening if Apple didn't insist on seeing Samsung's products.
39. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Back to: And then there was light...and on he 7th day he rested...
88. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Apple is asking copies of Samsung's unreleased but already COMPLETED and LAUNCHED devices. While Samsung is asking for Apple's UNRELEASED and under development devices.
Still can't see the difference? Or maybe you do but rather pretend that there's a big difference? :)
92. quicksilver9200 (Posts: 7; Member since: 14 Jun 2011)
From a strictly techincal standpoint you can't have an "unreleased" AND "launched" device.
You can have one OR the other...not both...again speaking strictly based upon the definitions of each word..if you meant something else then fine but otherwise you're wrong right there.
131. Socalvenom (unregistered)
if that's the case and it is. Why didn't Steve Jobs just walk into a f**king T-mobile store or At&t store and see for him self if the phone really looks and feels like the iphone instead of going through all this bullshit after all If Steve want's to see the phone up in personal hence walk into a store.
58. gallitoking (Posts: 4684; Member since: 17 May 2011)
my apologies men.. sorry . I guess that make me an ignorant..at the least
102. OllielovesAndriod (Posts: 22; Member since: 07 May 2011)
Thats cuz they dont have a prototype apple sheep!
86. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Because Sammy has nothing much to lose. They just copy :)
4. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 3840; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
Apple you are kidding right? Now Samsung is harassing you. It sounds so petty & insecure that Apple a company of its stature would even belittle themselves with such a convoluted comment. This shows WEAKNESS! Hey it's only FAIR that if Samsung needs to show its cards then Apple must also do so. This wouldn't be happening if Apple didn't go that route FIRST. You could have gotten a Samsung Galaxy S II & a Galaxy Tab 10.1 when it came out. If Samsung infringed on the patents then you can force them to stop selling the product. Apple insisted in getting it before the devices came out so Samsung should be able to get the same in response. Apple YOU opened this can of worms so THIS is what you get. I hope the judge makes Apple show their stuff to Samsung so Apple learns it’s lesson. BEWARE of what you ask for Apple. It's only FAIR, but we all know Apple never plays FAIR! lol
5. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
In my opinion, Samsung's request is pretty stupid, they wanna see Apple's next product, are they stupid or something? What for? they copied the iPhone/iPad AFTER it was released, not before, they should deny the permission, its the best thing to do.
7. p0rkguy (Posts: 683; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)
Wait, so when they're trying to prevent any copies of your stupid product yet you don't even want to show it to them in order for them to prevent such an act? How the hell is Samsung suppose to know whether or not it'll be a copy? So when Samsung is releasing a product that has already been in production for over a year, you little bitches can complain about Samsung copying your stupid device that just made its first appearance?
You Apple fan boys are so stupid sometimes it's a miracle you've made it this far with electronics.
16. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
lol....this is what I was saying. They just wanna make sure Apple doesnt to come at them with anymore copying claims.
20. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
The SGS3 is already designed so Samsung must have patents for its design already, so Apple can't sue about those patents, now, you guys have to put yourselves in Apple's place, what would you do? Slammer, you say Apple wants to be the only one? If you had a company, wouldn't you want the same? How can you guys not see it, Samsung is asking to see the future product, not one that will be released in a little bit, so how exactly are Samsung's devices in danger??
24. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
is the SGS3 already designed? I didnt know. I know its supposed to come out next year.
And you think the iPhone 5 isnt already designed? or the iPad 3? At least some kind of design. Apple releases these devices on yearly cycles..they have to be developed and tested.
Whats funny is with the iPhone and LG Prada debates, some folks say Apple was working on the orig iPhone for about 5 years. Now all of a sudden when they've been dropping a new iPhone every year, its crazy for Samsung to ask about a future iPhone?
There are rumor articles out now about the next iPhone coming out in a few months. Maybe Samsung wanna see if the rumors are true...
91. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
The original iphone does not look like the prada phone at all.
107. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Yea....so why did ppl say it was an iPhone copy?
34. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
Wanting to be the only one in town and actually having control over it, are two disimilar things. I cannot stop competition from entering my area. However, I do have control over making my business more attractive to potential patrons. If the business in question wants to flatter me by some sort of imitation, then it is up to the final operational product to attract and bargain for the consumer's business.
A burger is a burger. however, what can you do with that burger? That is the attraction quotient. Apple makes a great product, but to say no one else can have a "similar" product or look, is just plain idiotic.
In the end, the consumer chooses what is best for them.
90. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
They clearly see it Applefanboy. They're not as dumb as they may seem to be. But they have to defend their android devices even when they know deep inside that Apple is right :)
8. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
Having used both Apple's ios and Samsung's Android Galaxy series, there is a distinct difference in operations. They can easily be distinquished apart from each other. If Samsung's request is "petty" and "stupid", then that would make Apple immature. Resembling is the nature of business. Maybe Burger King should be sued for resembling McDonald's business model.
This is not a one way street.
Personally, I don't care for Samsung. I prefer HTC. But Apple is really a bully when it comes to trying to dominate the playground.
12. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
Just so you can understand it a bit more, its the OS icons and overall shape I mean, come on, you have to admit, the Galaxy S is exactly like the iPhone in terms of shape, the icons for the phone/email and i believe a few others, are exactly the same, the reason Apple decided to sue them in the first place is because they HAVE a patent for those icons, it'd be like if Apple copied the Android for an app and you expecting Google not to sue Apple, its really dumb you guys can't get over the whole Apple vs. Google deal...
21. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
But, if using prior art cant Samsung say the Galaxy S is an evolution of their F700?
Thouchwiz? I wont even argue about that Apple has a good case The hardware? I dont know...
And Apple mentioned the Nexus S for software too....thats a stock Android phone. Whats the real motive behind the Apple vs. Samsung lawsuit? Is it Samsung or Android?
22. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
Samsung's icons "Resemble" , not copy the exact implimentation of Apple's icons. It would take an idiot to not be able to see the difference. It all boils down to Apple having a fit because those that that enjoy the open format of Android, can maintain some sort of "similar" Apple experience. By your logic, Android could now sue Apple for copying the menu notification operation.
29. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
Good point, but were not using the exact same icons for which there is an existing patent for, in that case RIM can sue Google for using their notification icons
37. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Hey, lawsuits for everyone!!!!! Yay!
May the best lawyers win.
45. Slammer (Posts: 966; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)
Technically, the patent filing process is a joke.
I have colleagues that have filed for patents. It is almost essentially " I will take your word for it".
Filing for a patent in technology or science, should entail taking into consideration the "current" date of what is marketable. It should not enable control of what can be capitalized on the technology in the "future".
If Apple has a patent on a certain look for their icons, that is fine. However, an alteration should be allowed by another company as long as it is distinguishable from the original. Samsung has done that. They may look they same, but they are not. All laptops look the same. Why aren't they suing each other?
Sure, it may lack creativity, but nature of the business does not always dictate creative rules. As I stated earlier, I don't really care for Samsung. They lack the quality I desire and the proper upgrade time process as well. They have, however, decided to follow suit with the more popular OS and then capitalize on it with a very attractive hardware look and software offering. That combination ultimately draws the attention.
Apple remaining proprietary to their ecosystem, is the their only fault. Release the OS to other manufacturers, and Apple would easily be the world dominance.
They will not though because they want the control of consumers and what cash flow they have coming in.
If you love Apple, you stay because of what they offer. Not because of what they don't or what others are offering.
38. TechDroid (Posts: 37; Member since: 14 Jun 2011)
I have seen both phones, and while I have to agree that there is a similarity between them, I can't see that there is any reason to sue Samsung, since the similarities aren't too obvious. But since Apple is a stupid company, they have to pick on one of the manufacturers, not on Google itself. Apple's goal is to force people to use iOS.
96. quicksilver9200 (Posts: 7; Member since: 14 Jun 2011)
When/how did they copy Apple's products. I personally have the Samsung Galaxy S Captivate, and my friend has an iPhone 4...they're not similar...mine is larger, doesn't have a front facing camera and other things. If you're talking about the second generation of Galaxy S phones (i.e. the Samsung Galaxy S Infuse) there's nothing similar there. The Infuse is much larger, has 2x the pixels in the screen creating a better image and assorted other benefits that the iPhone just doesn't have.
6. Darnelll (unregistered)
Well it's Apple, they don't have to abide by the same laws, rules, and regulations as everybody else. I'd be pissed if my competition did better than me and wanted me to treat them fairly as well.
Its Apple and if you don't like that they can do what ever they want then f**k you.
23. Hi (unregistered)
Am i the only one think the Galaxy doesnt look like iphone phone?
25. Hallucinator (Posts: 340; Member since: 24 May 2010)
As an Iphone user, no your not. I personally have no clue why Apple is bothering with the lawsuit. Yes I do think Samsung modeled there Touchwiz/some hardware features after the iphone, but I am kind of sick of these lawsuits.
27. protozeloz (Posts: 5371; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)
I don't know much about litigation but why didn't this lawsuit occur when Samsung released the first line of Galaxy S phones, isn't there some time before your alleged copy of some other device is not valid anymore or something... not sure if there is... or how long is the time for a company to take action, before its considered an attempt to take down the competition, I truly don't have much clue and I would love some explanation from someone who is more in depth with this kind of litigations.
42. GALAXY-S (Posts: 701; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
they just realize they have some competition and now want to make a big deal out of it??.... shiit that damn ios grid design has been around for years...
44. AppleFanboy (Posts: 142; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
lol since when exactly? according to you? and what OS used it?
47. GALAXY-S (Posts: 701; Member since: 07 Jun 2011)
EDIT- i ment the grid design with icons has been used for years on other devices it was not invented by apple