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Andy Rubin thinks the Apple/HTC ITC decision may start patent settlements

Posted: , by Michael H.

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Andy Rubin thinks the Apple/HTC ITC decision may start patent settlements
It may just be wishful thinking or it may be a good understanding of how the system works, but Andy Rubin thinks that the ITC ruling in the dispute between Apple and HTC may be the beginning of settlements in patent disputes.

If you somehow missed it, Apple won its case with HTC on just one count of patent infringement, which could lead to a ban on HTC handsets, although HTC is already testing a change which will work around the patent in question. Today, Andy Rubin, Google's Senior VP of Mobile and the father of Android, spoke to journalists at HTC headquarters and took the positive side of it saying that this is "a way to settle the situation," and that he thinks "this is the beginning of settling", because the ITC is usually a quick way to settle these sorts of disputes. 

Of course, it may settle this patent dispute, but there are likely going to be more in the future unless the patent system gets fixed. 

source: The Next Web

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posted on 21 Dec 2011, 10:31 2

1. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5282; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


IMO, unless both sides have had enough of litigation, the fight continues. I don't see signs that Apple has had enough. HTC needs to move forward with rolling out its workaround.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 10:37 3

2. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


Here are the facts. All HTC had to do was remove the offensive feature or engage in a work-around as in spending money developing new technology. Instead, Apple was forced to seek legal recourse to defend its IP and HTC spent and had plan to spend an obscene amount of money simply because they chose to fight Apple. When Cisco sued Apple over the iPhone name, Apple reached a deal with Cisco and licensed the iPhone name.

This case is about the need to protect IP. If you infringe on Apple's IP, don't get upset if your company is being served with legal documents. Apple has a long history of suing and winning when it comes to protecting its IP.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 11:03 7

3. dirtydirty00 (Posts: 244; Member since: 21 Jan 2011)


And heres my take:

Apple should stop crying and stop getting its pantys in a bunch. Should they worry about "copyright issues"? yes they should. But do you see other companies worrying over these issues as much? And don't be a blind apple consumer and tell me its because apple leads in innovation and is a target for copy cats. Apple hasn't innovated in the phone industry since the first iphone, many years ago. If you take a good look at the phones these days, apple should be copying its competitors. Instead of spending money trying to slow others down, maybe they should spend more money trying to get their gadgets back to the top of the food chain. the REAL top of the food chain. im not talking about just the top of the chain in the eyes of the general media and general public. Because in the states and in the eyes of the hipsters apple will always be the top, even if they aren't the true top. Which right now they aren't.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 11:18 3

4. ZEUS.the.thunder.god (unregistered)


very true

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 11:23 5

5. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


And here's my reply.

So when HTC was caught with its hand in the cookie jar, it believe the best course of action was to spend $300 million on S3 Graphics to bolster a losing case?

Tell us ol' wise one, how is HTC spending $300 million on a crap shoot going to improve HTC's competitive position in the android market place. A work-around or some new innovation would have cost $3 - $5 millions tops!!

So basically, you are saying IT'S OKAY for HTC to engage in a legal arms race and patent trolling SOLELY to defend a losing position, and thus in the process making the legal bills much larger for all parties (well, at least the lawyers make out like bandits). Way to go HTC!!

Apple is innovating and playing on its strengths, which is writing software. People forget Apple is a SOFTWARE company that also makes consumer hardware. iOS 5.0 with delta updates is grounding break, getting Siri to beta mode and bringing AI to consumer mass, etc, etc. Android OEMs focus on hardware specs for a reason -- they can't write software as good as Apple. Here's a fact for you -- Apple has high customer satisfaction versus the typical android device for a simple reason -- Apple wants its customers to be satisfied. You look at Android and take the Amazon Fire for example, the return rates for the Fire was estimated to be as high as 15%.

Lastly, nothing you wrote changes the FACTS that HTC forced this issue, i.e. forcing Apple to defend it's IP. It was a long road that HTC took but Apple prevailed. These are the FACTS.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 16:49 2

10. Sniggly (Posts: 6495; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Maybe for HTC it was the principle of the thing. They probably genuinely believed that Apple didn't have a case.

Also, you seem really quick to defend Apple's honor, considering that Apple has a history of ripping off others' IP without paying a dime until they're dragged through court. By the way, the killer app for iOS 5,Siri, was mostly others' innovation. Apple simply bought out the software/companies involved. So you're kind of full of s**t about Apple being the saint of innovation.

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 14:58

15. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


Sniggly -- stick to the issue. If you want to continue to flame, I am more than happy to show people all your frequent and common mistakes on this website, how you call your prospective customers "village idiots", how you blame Apple for your problems when you aren't willing to accept the consequence of your actions, how you cry a river because "Apple" is ruining your life (Apple doesn't know who you are and doesn't care).

Sniggly, do us a favor and get a life.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 11:35 3

6. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


And one more thing:

Ask youself, why is the iPhone 3GS with dated spec's (ancient when compared against today's top android devices), selling on ONE carrier, OUTSELLING the leading android devices?

All Apple wants to do is create really amazing products. The hardware argument is simply horses**t based on the ongoing success of the 3GS, which also happens to be the second best selling phone in Q3:11. Here are FACTS.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 12:33 3

7. MorePhonesThanNeeded (Posts: 616; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)


Because it's chic to own an iPhone, any other questions?

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 15:00

16. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


To MorePhonesThanNeeded:

So that begs an even simplier question, why don't android phones have the "chic" appeal like Apple?

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 18:53 2

11. p0rkguy (Posts: 677; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)


Do you always argue with redundant questions?
"why is the iPhone 3GS with dated spec's (ancient when compared against today's top android devices), selling on ONE carrier, OUTSELLING the leading android devices?" That answer is so obvious I don't even know why you bothered to defend Apple through sales. I didn't know sales meant best.
Your facts are pretty much irrelevant to most of your arguments.
Until Apple fanboys can defend themselves with something else other than "sales" (lol) and patenting the most basic things and suing all competitions, they're just as clueless on technology as the average joe. Every little thing is amazing because they're brain is too slow to comprehend how such is possible.

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 15:06

17. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


When people write: "Apple hasn't innovated in the phone industry since the first iphone, many years ago. If you take a good look at the phones these days, apple should be copying its competitors. Instead of spending money trying to slow others down, maybe they should spend more money trying to get their gadgets back to the top of the food chain. the REAL top of the food chain. im not talking about just the top of the chain in the eyes of the general media and general public. "

They don't understand how leading edge the 3GS is? Apple's management style, marketing style, the 3GS product itself is being studied in the top MBA programs around the world.

Btw, it's "rhetorical" questions, but based on the tried and trite answers from the android camp, perhaps my questions aren't so rhetorical at all. That 3GS is a goldmine and how Apple pulled it off is just short of magic. Never before has one simple product that faced intense competition generated such a disproportionate ROIC for a company. The amount of value creation from the 3GS is astounding.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 15:40 3

9. topcat (Posts: 4; Member since: 21 Dec 2011)


Well, Apple had initially claimed that HTC was ignoring 10 patents. Was HTC supposed to just rollover on the other 9 or stick up for what they were doing right? Apple is being quite an aggressor on companies that are doing the right thing. OK, HTC got hit with ONE but to say they were violating TEN?! Wow. Apple needs to get a better handle on what their patents cover before costing anyone else a pot full of money. This is just a bid to rid themselves of valid competition.

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 15:30

18. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


topcat, I want to personally thank you for adding YET another myth about Apple from the android camp. It's clear you miss the issue since it wasn't about "priniciple" or "just rollover". As I pointed out with the Cisco "iphone" situation, Cisco didn't try to acquire another company in an attempt to patent troll nor did Cisco go crying to Google and to be a partner in another patent troll activity. All Cisco did was make to make a deal that Apple could live with. The rest is history with Apple reaching an agreement with Cisco over the "iphone" trademark.

Btw, the Cisco lawsuit over iPhone was filed in Jan 2007 and the lawsuit was settled in Feb 2007. This is a stark contrast from the legal arms race by the android camp.

Here are the some other top myths about Apple:
1) Apple iPhone/iOS is an app launcher -- practically all modern computers are app launchers (btw, Apple invented the mass consumer PC market so Apple is quite good about app launching)
2) Apple doesn't share technology -- Android fanboys and many in the android camp are clueless about webkit and it's role in the Android web browser. Thanks to Apple, it shifted the power of mobile web browsing from the desktop browser giant.
3) Apple copies Android -- this one is a classic. The first android devices were based of RIM products; in fact the first HTC android protypes were clones of RIM products. So yes, android predates iOS, but it wasn't until the release of the iPhone that android and the android OEMs switch gears after the HUGE success of that epic iPhone.

So now, I will add topcat's argument -- that Apple has a poor hit ratio in IP lawsuits. Here are the facts, Apple like another other company wins and loses IP cases. What makes Apple different from other companies is the Steve Jobs DNA -- Apple is ruthless in protecting its IP; Apple survived challenges from IBM, MicroSoft and now will go against the android camp. Here are the facts, Apple faced even worse odds before and survived.

If it weren't for Apple, we would be most likely living in a MicroSoft centric world with RIM oriented handsets.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 12:44 3

8. MikeG77 (Posts: 348; Member since: 24 Nov 2008)


Ardent i agree that Apple has a right to and should defend any IP's or copyrights they own BUT this lawsuit business is getting out of hand.

If HTC wants to enter into a losing battle then thats there choice. You are correct a software workaround would have been cheaper BUT to go into litigation and possibly beat Apple is potentially well worth the $300 million price tag.

No company should be engaged in any sort of illegal activities wether its Apple, HTC, Samsung etc etc. But we all know that all those companies mentioned have done some questionable things. In regards to patent trolling Apple is by far the worst and don't try and deny it. They creat patents for the dumbest s**t and make outlandish demands on how a company may or may not produce a product.

Apple keeps saying that other companies are copying them and it will hurt there profits....thats complete BS. If you take a look at there stock price, gross revenue and net profit they are consistently showing growth especially in the cell phone market.

Now in regards to software im not going to say its better then Android because iOS has had its fair share of problems and limitations. There both good in there own right but it ultimately comes down to personal preference. In regards to customer satisfaction Apple should want its customers to be satisfied seeing as they may have dropped thousands of dollars on there products and Apple wants a customer for life.

Oh and to answer your question in regards to why the 3GS is selling so well is:
1.Its a 3G device
2.Yes dated specs but its still a pretty solid device
3. Its FREE FREE FREE!

Ultimately Apple is successful because they make very good products, have a lot of brand loyal customers and VERY VERY good advertising.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 18:55 2

12. p0rkguy (Posts: 677; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)


The problem with it is that Apple was granted a patent titled “Portable electronic device with graphical user interface supporting application switching,” which basically means Apple has been awarded a patent for switching apps while on a phone call or "multitasking" (lol @ Apple's "multitasking")
This stuff has been around long before iOS was even in it's alpha stage.

posted on 21 Dec 2011, 20:28 2

13. MikeG77 (Posts: 348; Member since: 24 Nov 2008)


Like I said they patent all sorts of dumb s**t then they act as if they created it. The funny thing is that this particular patent is from 2008!

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 15:47

20. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


p0rkguy - did you bother to read the patent? Do you even know how to read a patent?

I read over a couple hundred of patents in my field and my advice is don't judge a patent by its title.

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 15:44

19. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


MikeG77, you are clearly missing the boat with your response.

Let's start off with the no-brainer when you exclaimed:
"Oh and to answer your question in regards to why the 3GS is selling so well is:
1.Its a 3G device
2.Yes dated specs but its still a pretty solid device
3. Its FREE FREE FREE!"

So if that was true, then android OEMs can do the EXACT same thing by offering a 3G device with dated specs for FREE and it will have the EXACT same sales as the the 3GS. Oh please -- use your brain for a change. If Samsung or HTC or Motorola used that recipe, their free 3D phone with dated spec's would just collect dust.

Given it's X-mas, I feel festive and will kindly drop a hint -- the answer to why the 3GS sells so well on ONE carrier must also be true to any company, be it Samsung, HTC, Moto, or ZTE or Huawei, etc. And no, it's not because it's "chic".

Then MikeG77 exclaimed: "They creat patents for the dumbest s**t and make outlandish demands on how a company may or may not produce a product."

Well, here are my limited 2 cents:
1) Those are your opinions and OPINIONS are NOT FACTS!!
2) I didn't know you were a patent examiner -- why didn't you tell us
3) I checked my patent and it took 2.5 years from application date to being awarded the patent; some patent takes up to 5 years. I wish I could show you the heated exchange between the patent lawyer and Patent examiner. It was no slam dunk.
4) So why didn't you invent these patents? Take Apple's slide to unlock feature. What STOPPED you -- meaning why didn't you file that patent?

I always find it funny how the critics are quick to point out that they can't believe the patent was awarded and how said comments also means they were lazy SOBs crying sour grapes.

If anyone wants to file a provisional patent, it can be done for as litte as $100 or $200. That money is less than the cost of today's android handsets.

posted on 23 Dec 2011, 10:23 1

14. Lwazi_N (Posts: 205; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


I also fail to see when and where Apple is innovating:

1) All of the iPod, Mac line was stolen from Braun

2) iPhone stolen from LG... If you ever saw the original Prada.

3) Multi-touch was already patented some years before Apple supposedly "invented" it.

4) The idea of using two antennae in a mobile has already been implemented by Samsung and Motorola.

5) The iPad idea is NOT the "first tablet ever" if you take into consideration what the Patent Office and Patent Law describes as an idea or IP that can be patented.

Apple buys quite a number patents, software and hardware from other companies... So tell me, what has Apple really invented?

But one thing I can applaud Apple on is their marketing... The "First ever tablet", "first ever multi-touch device", "first ever..." always worked. Although it is always false, but it always works for them as the public is always coerced into buying Apple.

posted on 24 Dec 2011, 16:01

21. ardent1 (Posts: 1983; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


1) ) All of the iPod, Mac line was stolen from Braun

So when did Braun invent the operating system software. Please provide the details.

2) iPhone stolen from LG... If you ever saw the original Prada.

Sorry, but I need to add that to my Apple myth. Gizmodo revealed clues to the iPhone based on its reported dated 9/27/2006
http://gizmodo.com/203780/itunes-701-has-buttloads-of-mobile-phone-mentions?tag=gadgetscellphones

The LG Prada was announced on 12/12/2006 (a full 2.5 months AFTER the Gizomodo review of iTunes 7.0) and the press release with photo was 1/18/2007. Plus the LG Prada had three (3) button the front of the device and none of these buttons were circular or user friendly.

Given the time needed to write the OS, Apple was clearly working on the iPhone prior to LG Prada.

3) Multi-touch was already patented some years before Apple supposedly "invented" it.

Apple made into an art form and that is why they "invented" the simple, intuitive, and user-friendly system.

4) The idea of using two antennae in a mobile has already been implemented by Samsung and Motorola.

Not the way Apple uses SOFTWARE in conjunction with the hardware.

5) The iPad idea is NOT the "first tablet ever" if you take into consideration what the Patent Office and Patent Law describes as an idea or IP that can be patented.

MicroSoft came out with the modern tablet about 10 years preceding the iPad. However, the iPad in one year outsold all the PC tablets combined to date, respectively.

"The "First ever tablet", "

We had clay tablets before if you really, really want to get technical. Apple is talking about the consumer market and using a device that consumers want to buy in the millions.

posted on 16 Jan 2012, 02:47

22. Lwazi_N (Posts: 205; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)


Dude, just google "Apple Braun", and you will see what I am talking about.

All your other statements are invalid.

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