HTC shares slide after Apple patent ruling
1. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
It's a shame. HTC hasn't let their investors down yet, but the minute Apple flexes its government muscle, people bail.
39. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
It's a shame HTC couldn't come up with their own ideas instead of copying Apple's. Oh wait...I forgot when it comes to Android, it's a half baked execution.
56. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)
Its funny because the iphone copied some of the blackberries and original PALM OS ideas. Get a life you what ever the F_ck you are (troll isnt even a good enough word for you)
70. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
u mad? Everyone copies someone in the tech world, but it becomes a problem when they directly copy the competitor, in this case, HTC and Samsung copying Apple. Get over it, it's the truth. And lol @ u and Sqiggy talking tough in comments.
2. PhoneUser (Posts: 77; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
People go where the money is and they get scared when someone shakes their pockets......its so F-ing stupid but thats how people are.
4. andro (unregistered)
its seems apple thirst for control will be allowed so that it can become a dictatorship. islaves rejoice Apple will be able to release new 'phones' year after year with little or no changes and have no market rivals,be happy you will handing over buckets of cash for this divine honour
5. thetruthy (unregistered)
This is less about people going where there money is, because frankly anyone here is a liar if they say they dont do the same please stop with the fanboy nonsense. Nobody wants to lose money bottomline. This whole thing isnt about that for Apple its them trying to remove any challengers, and the Android operating system is its biggest competitor with HTC and Samsung being the best phone makers right now. They keep trying to make them lose their business, and as result will lose its biggest competitors. Blackberry and Windows phon are nowhere near a threat to Apple as the Android phones are. Just to prove my point why does Apple keep targeting HTC and Samsung as opposed to the other countless amount of Android phone providers to eliminate the competition and the more the courts allow this to go on we will see down to just Apple and Windows phone as choice for smart phones as blackberry seems to be dieing a slow death among the fact nobody wants one. But hey to the fanboys that have to curese in a post about a "phone" good luck and get help......
6. messiah (Posts: 433; Member since: 19 Feb 2010)
The world is getting too small..... for cellular use
7. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
Bottom line is that Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property. The courts wouldn't rule in Apples favor is there wasn’t some kind of infringement.
So... to all you idiots that are saying that apple is the bad guy wake up! You would do the same thing if you had a company and you were losing profits because a competitor, either intentionally or unintentional, infringed on your ideas.
15. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
No, I wouldn't. First off, Apple isn't losing profits in any meaningful way. They are the most profitable company in the world, barring oil companies perhaps. Secondly, other companies are more than willing to make deals with "infringing" companies where they get royalties for phones sold. Microsoft does this. And HTC has agreed to such deals already with companies like Microsoft, so we know that they're willing to do so.
No, Apple didn't give a s**t about Android's "infringements" until Android gained the momentum that it did in the market. It's not about losing profits. Apple has a fascist market philosophy: they can't stand the thought of anyone else being successful in the same market as the one they occupy/dominate. Therefore, they aim for any means they can in order to destroy the competition through use of government force, rather than simply making products so good no one will want anything else.
21. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
Your argument holds no water and here is why...
It doesn’t matter when a company sues for infringement. Bottom line is that Apple has every right to protect their intellectual properties now... tomorrow... or five years from now. Why a company would waste legal fees and court time to sue a company that has the possibility of failing?
As Apple watched Android grow their legal teams studied and found obvious infringements that now need to be addressed due to the popularity of the platform. Its smart business practice
26. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
So is it smarter business practice to strike a deal with the supposedly infringing company wherein you're guaranteed to make a killing in royalties, or do you spend millions in legal fees to try to get a decision that won't be granted, piss a lot of people off, and lose out on the opportunity to get those royalties once your case is eventually thrown out (as this case still could be) all against a company that obviously isn't going to actually destroy your already insane profit levels?
In terms of public good will, Apple is its own worst enemy.
22. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
As usual your blinded by your fanboy hate for Apple. Did you read that Apple tried to negotiate a deal with Samsung for over a year before they took them to court? How do you know Apple hasn't tried to work out a deal with HTC also? YOU DON'T and that's the point. You speculate and make stuff up in your head to rationalize your Apple hatred and fandroism.
Android has copied core functionalities of iOS and Apple has patents for it. Why should they not sue to get royalties or android has to stop using the patents.
27. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
See, you're blinded yourself. Why would HTC strike a deal with Microsoft and not Apple? If Apple's business dealings with everyone else on the planet are any indication, it's that Apple probably wasn't looking for a reasonable royalty amount. They were probably either looking to threaten HTC and Samsung into shutting down on their own OR bordering on extortion with the fees they were seeking to obtain.
Apple's pulled too many stunts for me to just assume they're the good guy in anything anymore.
28. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
What stunts has Apple pulled that was the deciding factor of which made you hate Apple products so much?
31. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Ah, be careful, Dave. I didn't say I hate Apple products now did I?
Apple's handling of events like Antennagate and Trackergate, stealing ideas from app developers, taking app developers' app names for their own services and then telling the developers to change the app names, purposely bidding in bulk for parts early on in order to manhandle suppliers into doing business with them at prices way below what Apple should be paying, striking deals to purposefully minimize sales associates' commission at indirect retailers, forcing the same retailers to buy a 3000 dollar display in order to present their products, trying to get jailbreaking declared a felony...
Isn't this enough for you, Dave? Do I really need to say any more?
33. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
I was accusing you but that is also why I asked for clarification...
While I hear what you are saying most of your points are rumors and hearsay.
Businesses dont have to sell Apple product now do they? They sell them because the devises bring in cutomers. Have you ever been to an Apple store?
There are a lot of products out that I feel are over priced. I just dont buy them. I dont go around ripping the company because I dont like what they charge for their product.
I am all for jainbreaking but I also look at it as a form of hacking. Hacking is frowned upon and in many cases illegal. Especially when it causes loss of profit.
37. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
No, everything I've discussed has been documented, even here at Phonearena.
I've been to an Apple store, yes I've seen the sheep there. It's disgusting, really.
I'm not just ripping Apple for their products being horrendously overpriced (which they are).
Jailbreaking is only hacking the device that YOU already paid for. And while other companies have taken steps to prevent similar practices (and backpedaled when the customers reacted badly, a la Motorola) Apple is the only company in the market that tried to get the practice declared a FELONY OFFENSE. Do you understand the consequences of being convicted of a felony? It isn't pretty, Dave. But Apple wanted to do that to THEIR customers because they're control freaks.
45. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
I would actually respect your opinion more if it was simply that.... "Your opinion" but by your blatant show of ignorance when labeling the people in an Apple store as sheep is simply disturbing and unwarranted.
With that said you sir have shown me nothing more than being a typical TROLL. You don’t like the product so you bash the devise and the customers it attracts. Sounds narcissistic to me. You seem intelligent enough to formulate an un-bias opinion. Unfortunately you fail.
49. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
*shrug* It is just my opinion that they're sheep. I'll acknowledge that. And I know that not everyone buys Apple products without being informed of their choices. But so many times I hear the reasoning "I'm buying the iPhone because that's what my friends have." "I'm buying the iPhone because I already have a Mac." "I'm buying the iPhone because it's cool and has apps."
This is sheeplike behavior, and it irritates me. It would irritate me as well if this kind of behavior was dominantly reflected among Android users. But considering the low percentage of them polled who say they won't switch to the iPhone, I'd say that isn't the case.
Btw, I do appreciate you being more level headed and listening better than your cohort Taco. Thanks for listening, however briefly.
62. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
Yeah... I guess I can see where you’re coming from. I kind of feel likewise about many of the Android users I encounter...
Its becoming the popular thing to get android because they believe it stands for the anti-apple phone. Everyone should just buy the phone that they like the best.
If I was irrational then my apologies... I get frustrated as well trying to stand up for Apple because I enjoy the phone/pad.
Also, Thanks for recognizing my level head. I try to stay un-bias because I think Android is a good OS. In fact I am really looking forward to getting my hands on one for work. I like what the platform brings to the table and I like competition. I also think your comments, for the most part, are very level headed and fact based. I enjoy reading your input on many of the other articals... Anyway, I'm sure we will argue more in other articles!
63. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Well, if you meet Android users like that, they're dunderheads too. I agree that people should buy the phone that they like the best. I guess I just pay closer attention to companies' activities than the average customer.
Thank you for acknowledging that Android isn't craptastic, that alone qualifies you as level headed. I like when we can get along like this. :)
Anyway, time to take the nephews to the movies again.
53. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Can you provide a source that Apple wanted to make jailbreaking a felony? I've never seen that anwhere.
58. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Here ya go! :)
And here are the possible consequences of violating the DMCA:
Btw, DMCA abuse is a practice among Young Earth Creationists on Youtube as well.
64. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
No where in that article does it say Apple asked for it to be a felony so you're lying as usual?
What do young earth creatinists have to do with this?
It's funny because you accuse people of being sheep while you blindly hate Apple for no reason at all. All you have to do is not buy their product.
76. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Do you not understand what the DMCA is? It's the digital millennium copyright act. A criminal violation of it is considered a felony, the possible punishments for which I linked to. Apple fought against jailbreaking being declared exempt from the DMCA, claiming that jailbreaking was unlawful and covered as a crime by this law. It's all right there, which brings us back to the issue of your crippling reading comprehension problems.
77. LionStone (Posts: 445; Member since: 10 Dec 2010)
Daang...taco still gettin owned...same ol story
34. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Wow you really are totally irrational. Let's see
Antennagate - From using the iPhone for both AT&T and Verizon I can tell you this is pretty much a non issue. However Apple gave free cases to everyone who bought the phone and offered returns without a restocking fee.
Trackergate - Apple put out a sw update that fixed the problem
Taking app names - not really sure what you're talking about
Bidding in bulk for parts - I don't see how this is unfair business. Any business bids in bulk when they can to secure a better price. It's how things work. This one really shows what a giant fanboy you are and Apple hater. You don't think HTC and Samsung buy in bulk? You're a dumbass if you think they don't.
I doubt Apple has anything to do with associates commission. It's the companies that pick commision rates for their employees.
Once again you prove yourself to be totally unreasonable and a hopeless fandroid.
40. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Okay, let's go over what REALLY happened with these events:
Antennagate: Apple spent a MONTH trying to tell their customers that the issue was nonexistent- not "insignificant" or "easy to work around" but NONEXISTENT. They then took further steps to try to prove that other phones had the same problem, all the while ignoring that this didn't excuse them even if it was true (it wasn't). Then they declared the free bumper program and restocking fee less exchange program AFTER people refused to buy their bulls**t, even after deleting threads on their support forums mentioning the problem and their misinformation campaign, BUT these programs were for a limited time only. To this day they have made no effort to remedy the issue (which they could've easily done) or continue the free bumper program (again, something they could've easily done.)
Other manufacturers have completely redesigned speakers and other parts or included extended batteries for free for the life of the device. But not Apple. Nope. And to top it off, Apple has delayed the launch of the next iPhone by months, whereas other manufacturers would've had an improved model out in LESS time than normal.
Trackergate was ALMOST a repeat of the same, with Jobs trying to tell customers that "other companies do it too." As it was it took over a week for Apple to even acknowledge the problem existed.
As for proof of Apple taking app names/telling developers to change their own app names:
My point isn't illustrated so much by the focus of this article. Look at the last paragraph of the first page and read on. A development studio had an app called iPodrip. Apple told them to change it, and Steve Jobs gave the developer the finger when the dev personally appealed to him.
There's the source for Apple's practices with manufacturers. There's buying in bulk, and then there's buying in so much bulk that you practically corner the market.
And yes, Apple does. Ask any indirect AT&T retailer. Apple pays a direct small fee to them for selling the phone, and struck a deal with AT&T so that indirect retail salespeople don't get commission for data plans either. This is why indirect retailers like the one I worked for briefly only sold the iPhone if someone specifically insisted on it, because of the combination 3000 dollar display policy and the ridiculously small profit margin on selling the phone.
So Taco, shut your mouth or admit you're wrong. I'll take either one.
54. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
so if antennagate was such a problem why are people buying iphones by the millions?
as far as Apple protecting their product names I don't see why you think that's a problem.
You're a sheep and a fanboy and don't have the ability to have a rational discussion becasue you'll do anything you can to twist facts to "prove" Apple is bad.
55. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Oh you're last comment about comission. So the carrier pays commission for every other phone except the iPhone and Apple, because they're evil, specifically asked for salespeople to get payed no comission on data?
How do you know this? Were you a part of the negoations with Apple?
60. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Apple, because they're bastards with the intent to gain maximum profit at all costs, pays salespeople a pittance. It's a flat fee of about 30 bucks per iPhone. The salesman sees 14 percent of that. This is compared to 100 dollars or more profit for the retailer for other phones, even feature phones. And I know this because it was all explicitly explained to me by the retailer's owner.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that I might actually KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT?
65. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
because you don't. And guess what even if it's true that retailer doesn't have to sell the iPhone right?
Also there's no way retailers are getting $100 dollars for a phone upgrade. Maybe for a new activation or an additional line of service.
79. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Actually, the retailers still have to be able to provide the phone if the customer wants it. They just don't have to display it. And my retailer, by far the largest and most successful one in the region, chose not to.
And oh yes, sometimes phones like the Captivate can be high profit like that. Sure, you get more money on a new activation. But even on an upgrade you can get much more than what selling an iPhone would net you.
Why do you insist that the GUY WHO WORKED FOR THE COMPANY AND SAW THE NUMBERS BECAUSE AS A SALESMAN I PAID ATTENTION TO MY EARNINGS DAY TO DAY would be lying or not privy to the truth of the matter?
71. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
Wow, you know what you're talking about? Aren't you the same chap who confused RAM with hard drive space?
80. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
No, you f**king idiot. I referred to flash memory, which is NOT RAM, as a hard drive. And even then I knew the difference between the two. Hard drive is just an easier term for the general non technical audience to understand in regards to integrated memory storage on a computer, whether it's handheld or desktop.
30. ngo2dd (Posts: 781; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Do you even know what the core functionality of Android that copy iOS? Have you even read the patent that they happen to infringe on? It is two out of the 10 they sue for and those two are broad. I can say the same thing iOS because they copy Nokia and S3. And guess who own S3 now?
41. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
Sounds like someone is being bitter because Apple is protecting their intellectual rights, which they have a right to do. It's called business - people make products, companies get sued. get over it.
8. Battleraiser (unregistered)
Way I see it them IBM should throw some sort of patent infrigement against apple for using a processor in their computers like they did so long ago, or Microsoft should throw out some patent infrigement on apple for using a operating system that allows you to point and click on an icon to pull up a seperate window like structure. The point of throwing stones at apple is, they're totally scared. It's Apple's own fault that people enjoy the experience on the Android system more. Apple chose to make the most closed system they could and keep it tight under their wing, where Android is an open system meant for people to explore, and modify. I'm sorry Apple, but people like to tinker with things. So, in retaliation Apple can only fight it in court, and can not compete in the market. Thats like knowing you can't win a fight in life, so you choose to kick em in the groin. It's just a low blow cheap shot.
10. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Did you know Apple came up with the window interface and Microsoft stole it from them? God you fanboys are idiots.
So according to you fanboys Apple should just let people steal their ideas and not do anything about it except come up with new ideas which would then be stolen again.
12. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
Dude.... I'm completely with you taco50,
I hate these idiots who dot care about facts and legalities. They only care about bashing.
You hear it hear first.... I am going to coin the term "Tech-discrimination" and just for the record there are a lot of ifans that do the same thing!
16. Battleraiser (unregistered)
ACTUALLY, The GUI was first developed at Xerox PARC by Alan Kay, Larry Tesler, Dan Ingalls and a number of other researchers. It used windows, icons, and menus to support commands such as opening files, deleting files, moving files, etc. In 1981 Xerox introduced a pioneering product, Star, incorporating many of PARC's innovations. Although not commercially successful, Star greatly influenced future developments, for example at Apple, Microsoft and Sun Microsystems.
I love people that think they can one up a real researcher.. I used what I said earlier as an example.. not as a stapled fact.
23. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
So why did you say Apple stole windows from Microsoft and it was obviously Apple that used the interface first and made it commercially popular?
18. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Ohhai, Taco. Does the inability to read a pie chart count as being an idiot? Yeah, nice try running away after being proven wrong twice on the Media Mix comment thread.
9. ThE_SoSSi (unregistered)
well is thats the case about "apparently copying"... then what about apple's new i0s5..... im pretty sure there little notification bar system is a complete rip off of android. im still waiting for google as a whole to step up and not let apple try and run them out of the smartphone industry... i used to be a former iphone user..1-4 and i am saying android is a hell of alot better....if apple is going to have a lawsuit for this then people need to do the same thing right back to them because they are doing the same thing
11. davecann2 (Posts: 460; Member since: 15 Mar 2011)
Ummm... I'm sure if Android has a case against Apple they would have files a lawsuit a long time ago. The idea of notifications isn’t Androids intellectual property... It’s how the notifications are worked into the software. I'm sure Apple has a completely different software solution for their notification systems... Thus, making it not an infringement on Androids system.
78. ThE_SoSSi (unregistered)
how is that possible... how can u say it doesnt copy what androids looks like, but apple can turn around and try to sue people for their app icons and devices apparently looking like theirs, but pulling a totally obvious looking thing into their system isnt copying.... probably the most retarded thing to say... you obv have not looked at the videos of ios5!!!!
13. applesucks (unregistered)
Also what about the WiFi sync in ops 5 that was an app in the cydia app store if Apple sees something they want they take it now and ask later they do the same as every one else
24. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
So Apple isn't allowed to add anything to it's OS that was an app at some point? Wifi sync isn't a new invention, neither is a messaging service so Apple isn't infringing on anything by adding it. When there's functions that aren't available in the OS then apps will come out to fill the gap. Doesn't mean Apple can't add it to the OS at some point.
14. unregistered user (unregistered)
Actually, Xerox created GUI. The only thing mystical that Apple managed to do was format it into a usable interface for PC's.
19. rizzen (unregistered)
Apple is scared of Android!
20. networkdood (Posts: 6260; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
I have a patent on breathing, so I will be suing APPLE in the near future.....
59. iwebdroidberry7 (Posts: 230; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
How can Apple be breathing. It's a company not a person dumb ass.
25. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
I just want to point out that I'm noticing a trend on PA where fandroids are getting called out on their BS a lot more. I guess people are tired of their nonsense.
Every single Apple article is swarmed by these trolls constantly bashing and trying to prove to themselves android is better. And each year Apple marches on and crushes fandroid dreams and hopes.
29. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
How narcissistic of you to thumb up your own comments, Taco.
Anyway, I wouldn't say arguments like these are examples of Android users being called out on their bulls**t. It's more an example of thugs like you saying something false or misinformed, getting corrected, then calling us jealous and leaving the thread.
36. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
thugs like me who read and comment on Apple articles because I use Apple products? If you hate Apple so much why do you follow around Apple like a lost puppy.
43. Sniggly (Posts: 6745; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
What's with the lost puppy thing?
And I've already told you why I follow articles on Apple, but I'll post my reason again:
I don't care if you comment anywhere. Just please try to actually be RIGHT. And stop being such an asshole to everyone.
32. ngo2dd (Posts: 781; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Taco you are the biggest troll here. You keep saying that android copy iOS but when anyone else say bad about iOS you say they don't copy and blah blah. Guess what? Nokia won sues against apple for patent infringement. So can I say iOS copy Sybiam? According to your logic I can. And here is the kicker, Wait for it....... Apple have been found to infringe on S3 and HTC own S3 now so I guess they can ask for ITC to ban Apple because they were found to infringe on 2 of S3 patent. So they copy HTC now.
35. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
And when have you seen me bash Nokia for suing Apple? If Apple is infringing on something then let them pay for it.
The difference is that fandroids bash other people for the products they want to use. You don't see android articles filled with Apple fanboys claiming how much better iOS is, but every Apple article is filled with jealous trolls like sniggly