Working conditions at Foxconn way above average, workers too bored, though
1. andro. (Posts: 1990; Member since: 16 Sep 2011)
Hmmm....someones been paid off here for their investigation report as i dont think anyone would consider a factory which has fence protection systems placed on its roof to prevent further mass sucides 'above average'. As always with apple theres nothing wrong here and who ever reported otherwise before was 'reporting the wrong way'
2. Sniggly (Posts: 7291; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Sounds like the new blankets and extra meals were passed out before the Geneva Convention guy got there.
3. XiphiasGladius (Posts: 813; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)
I bet the word "MAGICAL" is applicable to that.
13. biophone (Posts: 1900; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)
Lets wait until this report is finishe to critisize it.
18. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
What I think is funny is if their initial findings were different, everyone would be preaching about how credible the reporting was. Foxconn was given notice that this was happening, but not weeks and weeks of notice. If their plant is a big as they say, there is no way they could get rid of all signs in such a small amount of time.
Now, of course it could be argued that Apple tipped these guys off well before they made the announcement. But Foxconn is partners with a LOT of companies. Acer, Dell, HP, Intel, Samsung, Sony, Microsoft, and Nokia just to name a few. More companies have their reputations at stake other than Apple if Foxconn is as bad as they say. So, yes even your Android could have been made there.
I definitely think the conditions aren't as great as they would be here. Same with the pay. But of course if they were, the jobs would be in the US. But that's a whole different argument that's been made since the days of Nike.
Do I think Foxconn is better than most Chinese factors? Absolutely. Do I think there are human rights issues. Probably. But again, we would have to have a discussion of workers rights in China all together. We'd also have to be willing to pay more for all of our electronics/clothing/everything not made in America.
21. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
round and round we go.
each factory is different, according to the clients specs. they are run pretty independantly of each other.
it does not take too long to clean up when things stay clean to begin with. you only need to adjust a few things about the schedule an threaten people with jail time or termination if they speak ill about the company. this isnt america. workers have no rights there.
the ONLY way to see what is going on is to go in completely by surprise, which will be very hard to do since these places are remote and locked down.
Samsung makes their phones in house and offers things like sick time, higher (yet still bad) wages, and other things.. so no, my phone isnt made by foxconn.
we could easily change our draconian tax laws to entice business back to america. it wouldnt cost that much more. why dont you just convince apple to back off its 70%+ profit margins instead? they dont have to maintain that. the next highest company is samsung at 30%+. You dont hear about too many mass suicides attempts at samsung plants. Samsung also has factories IN AMERICA. Amazing that you try to justify why apple cant do it, yet non american companies are coming here.
I generally respect your opinion, but your so far off on this issue, its not funny.
27. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
This post is so full of factual errors. Samsung has gotten in trouble plenty of times for poor working conditions. Apple does not have a 70% profit margin. This last quarter their profit margin was 40 some percent which was a record for them. There were no mass suicide attempts. The suicide rate at Foxconn is lower than the average for the US population.
Seriously your level of hate for Apple is ridiculous. We get it you don't like them. Lying and posting half truths isn't productive.
28. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
maybe you should go fact check before you post. just sayin.
30. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Although the number of suicides at the company is large in absolute terms, the suicide rate is still low compared to the rest of China. A journalist from ZDNet even concluded that "working at Foxconn dramatically reduces people’s risk of suicide".
32. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Q1 2012 Financials:
$46.33 billion in revenue
$13.06 billion net profit
International sales accounted for 58% of quarters revenue
Gross margins of 44.7%
Apple is currently holding over $97,600,000,000 (yes, billion) in cash
Note the 44.7% gross margins NOT 70%
34. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
why dont you just look at their iphone/ipad/ipod profit instead of their total company profit, which 44.7 is still massive.
35. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
to make - $196,
sold - $ 649
to make - $ 215
sold - $749
profit - 72%
to make - 254
And that includes the whopping 8 dollars worth of labor and shipping per phone.
37. Paden (Posts: 262; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
Marketing, Design, Retail Stores, Customer Service, and on and on and on... There's more to cost than production and shipping.
38. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Thank you Paden I was just about to say that. Remix do you realize that a company has market and support products, legal cost etc?
Come one man you're clearly wrong here and obscenely exaggerating Apple's profits.
39. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
your absolutely right.
design? its the exact same design
the topic of my conversation was iphone profits, not total company profits. The bulk of the company's money comes from iphones. quit trying to muddy the conversation to make your point.
That price also includes all labor costs for building it as well as shipping per unit.
40. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
So developing iOS 5 cost Apple $0, retail stores are given to them for free and they pay zero on utilities etc? When a customer calls Apple for tech support that costs Apple nothing? Get it together man you're obviously wrong.
41. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
obviously not, since AGAIN, i am talking specifically about iphone's profit margin, not the entire company. everything u just said, comes off the total company, not the iphone... other than OS development. you keep trying to muddy the waters.
BTW, apple spends a relatively small amount on R&D compared to other companies, especially when compared to MS and Samsung and probably Google.
42. Whateverman (Posts: 3237; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Just wanted to add to what remix and Paden was saying...I think your both right! Remixes number for manufacturing are right as well as when Paden said it goes up when you consider customer service, retail stores and what not.
After adding in all those different missing factors, the iPhone cost $220 total from raw materials to a finished product in consumers hand. Someone also said something about it costing sooo much more if it were made here in the US. They were right as well, it would cost $240 to make here in the US. These companies want us all to believe that manufacturing in the US is just impossible, it would cost too much, people would pay the extra markup, etc, etc...
Being a daily visitor to this site, I've seen every defense and excuse as to why Apple and others shouldn't be held accountable for what's happening in Foxconn. But no one has offered ANY good reason why they shouldn't bring these jobs to America. Apple has the money, power and apparently the reputation, to influence change more than any other company or government on the face of the Earth! So why haven't they?
45. Paden (Posts: 262; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
All that is valid.
However, its not just money. Its legislation and politics too.
46. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
You have no clue how much any of these companies spend on R&D and all costs are factored into iPhone profits. iPhones are sold in retail stores, iPhone customers call tech support, iPhones are marketed. You think those iPhone commercial are given free to Apple by the networks?
WEM he's right in the cost of what it takes to make an iPhone but totally wrong on the profit margin since he rules out all additional costs that come with running a business.
49. Whateverman (Posts: 3237; Member since: 17 May 2009)
No, that's all of it. It's all in there. The proof is in the $76 BILLION dollars worth of pudding they have just laying around. That's the actual cost per unit, and when doing a cost per unit analysts, everything is included from the shipping, electricity, marketing, employee salaries, all the way up to the CEO. That's all of it. We have to face facts here, their making this kind of money because we allow it. We got quit making excuses and start voting with our dollars. Sign some petitions, call congressmen, and do whatever it takes to make sure these guys realize if they won't help Americans...then we won't help them!
Yeah, I know! A beautiful sentiment that will never actually grow legs. It's like someone high up at Apple said...all we REALLY care about is getting a new iPhone.
4. nastynaps (Posts: 93; Member since: 16 Aug 2011)
When my mom tells me she's coming to visit I clean the apartment. No surprise here.
5. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
they need to come back in 6 months without a worldwide announcement.
cue Gallito and his pro slave labor stance in 5...4....3...
6. paulyyd (Posts: 329; Member since: 08 Jan 2011)
lol dude really? i like how in other articles you were all like "oh can't wait to see the report from the FLA blah blah", and bam look what happens. do all of us a favor and just stop
8. iamcc (Posts: 1319; Member since: 07 Oct 2011)
You realize that the article mentions the working conditions are above average when compared to garment factories.
"Dude there's nothing wrong with me having slaves, I feed them twice as much as the guy down the street."
16. Paden (Posts: 262; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
"...the guy down the street" is every single other US business who has manufacturing plants in China.
I'm not saying its right or wrong, but our economy is based heavily on cheap Chinese manufacturing.
If you believe that US businesses uprooted their manufacturing from the US to have the same factory overseas you must be extremely naive. Cheaper labor, less regulations, and its easier to implement change due to less political and legislative restraints.
America has dug their own grave on this one. Don't blame companies. Blame consumers for demanding cheap products. Companies only provide products that match customers wants and needs.
23. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
it was apathy that allowed us to dig that grave, and its the same apathy that all you crazed ibots are displaying that allows it to continue. you ARE part of the problem.
25. Paden (Posts: 262; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
Remixfa - Most things, good or bad, related to Apple is sensationalized because websites, authors, magazines, newspapers get more views and attention because of it. Look at what happened a week ago. When Whitney Houston dies, Apple was ridiculed for jacking up the prices of her albums. However, Apple gives control of the pricing to the record labels themselves. It was later found out that Sony Music raised those prices. Websites will sensationalize any stupid little article that has the slightest thing to do with Apple.
Hence, PhoneArena, hence The Verge, hence any thing tech.
26. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
was not aware of the price hike. thats normal when a star dies though. they did the same thing when jackson died. not an issue with me. thats supply and demand. the demand went up, so the price went up.
what exactly does that have to do with apple-foxconn? they can "sensationalize" all they want, but the truth is still the truth. it doesnt change a single thing about the 17 suicides, exploding unventillated factories, mass suicide threats, or 36 hr work shifts.
the ONLY thing that changes that is consumers refusing to buy the products until things change... which is why you and every one that continues to blindly defend apple are part of the problem.
33. Paden (Posts: 262; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
That's an example of things that get sensationalized. Just like this. Just like iPad rumors. Just like anything Apple.
20. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Exactly if the report came back that the conditions are horrible these guys would be screaming about how credible the report is.
24. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the only report that i find credible is the ones about 17 suicides last year, installing jumper nets, changing people's pay out so that no one gets their paycheck if they die, building a factory in 90 days and not installing VENTILLATION which of course then exploded killing and injuring dozens, oh and the mass suicide attempt just a few weeks ago at the foxconn-Xbox plant.
yea, pardon me if i dont believe THIS report that paints a rosy picture on the backs of all that death.
10. tacohunter (Posts: 408; Member since: 06 Nov 2011)
Remix is only hating now, well I didn't expectn otherwise, so it's ok I guess.
17. gallitoking (Posts: 4704; Member since: 17 May 2011)
there you go folks.. whether is accurate or not.. is in the books... this will silenced a few .. not remix...
19. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Remix you've now been proven wrong about the working conditions. It's time to let it go.
22. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
and amazingly, on cue, every blind apple defender is taking the report ad nauseum, since it defends their shiney apple logo. sleep well tonight kiddies, knowing the slave labor that serves you those high profit margin devices wont be off shift for another 20 hours or so.
31. gallitoking (Posts: 4704; Member since: 17 May 2011)
well unless I am physically there.. I have to believe the reports... I mean you did.. when the horrible conditions were reported.. why not believe this one... at least this report is more credible than YOUR opinion remix... let it go.. we all know you hate Apple.. u made your point.. now breath...
36. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
i believed the reports of the mass suicides and jumper nets and foxconn admitting to their hours and calling them animals.
47. gallitoking (Posts: 4704; Member since: 17 May 2011)
to finish this topic... nothing you do will fixed what happen in the past.. let it go.. Apple is doing something about it.. which is more that before... so turn that frown upside down on that issue... second issue... Snoop Dogg call woman who**es and Bit**s which in my mind is more demeaning... don't feed of everything you read... you are smarter than that...
48. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
cover up PR bull is not "doing something about it".
7. Mozarrt (Posts: 297; Member since: 08 Oct 2011)
Well good for Foxconn for being above average, Although they still have a lot of work, I can't imagine it being any worse than other Android/Windows Phone handset factories.
Haters will always find an excuse to criticize a certain company.
9. Bigbluetundra (Posts: 45; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)
My complaint with this assessment is that it was baseed on his perception of the style of work. The only thing he sees is that its boring? What does that even mean? That's totally subjective. He should be focused on hours worked per shift, employee suicides, payscale, quality of life living in the dorms for the factory they work in. Remember, if they get caught compalining to each other about how crappy thier job is, they can literally get 12 years in jail for 'trying to form a union'. And all this gy can come up with is that a 'clean room' manufacturing setting is cleaner and more streamlined than a clothing factory. No s**t Sherlock...now go collect your check...
11. squallz506 (banned) (Posts: 1075; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
does anyone else read the source?
first the source says that besides foxconn, quanta, pegatron, and wintek still need to be evaulated. and here is a quote from the source about the problems at foxconn:
""There might not be a clear policy on hiring, that could lead unwittingly to discrimination against hepatitis B sufferers," he said as an example.
"There might not be adequate documentation that could lead to the risk that workers get hired with fake documentation, that underage workers come in .""
but largely foxconn checks out. and im happy for that.
12. tluv00 (Posts: 134; Member since: 18 Oct 2007)
Tim Cook was overheard saying "So what if they're bored. It's not like they're killing themsel...............oh yeah."
14. tluv00 (Posts: 134; Member since: 18 Oct 2007)
The inspected the factory itself so to expect physical working condition in a plant that manufactures electronic parts for the world's largest tech company it's going to be clean and have great manufacturing technology. The questions where about pay, how management treats their employees on a person to person level and living quarters.
That is where the actual issues may lie. If the plant was a dump then the parts wouldn't work.
15. jim3000gt (Posts: 17; Member since: 13 Nov 2011)
Do you think the pay rate in the Chinese factories are based any differently then here. There are many in the USA that have 10 hour overnight shifts and pay minimum wages that cannot support a family.
Look how many people here that work full time and are still eligible to collect food stamps. Others can not even afford healthcare and you guys are worrying about China?
The only sad thing thing about this post is that some of you are almost old enough to vote :-(
29. dreammixer (banned) (Posts: 81; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Well now that Apple is the ONLY tech company to have joined the FLA and they're allowing public inspections of their facilities (again only company to do that) and the report came back clean we can put all the crazy sweatshop rumors to bed. Unless of course you're remix, sniggly, andro or one of the other blind Apple hating fanatics that are frothing at the mouth with anger right now.
43. jim3000gt (Posts: 17; Member since: 13 Nov 2011)
China has now even copied the Ford F -150 pickup truck. There is no end to what tech they steal from us. Talk about infringment.