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No LTE LG Nexus 4 brings Google back to its roots

Posted: , by Michael H.

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No LTE LG Nexus 4 brings Google back to its roots
One of the first things that people may notice about the new LG Nexus 4 is that despite its suite of powerhouse features, there is not LTE model. At first, we thought this could be just because Google was only announcing the version that was going to launch in the Google Play Store, and not the variant for certain carriers. But, it turns out that it was a conscious choice by Google to not build an LTE model, and it looks like Google may be going back to its old ways of trying to disrupt the carrier system a bit. 

According to Android chief, Andy Rubin, it was a "tactical decision" to not build an LTE model, and the reasoning included issues of cost, target audience, network availability, and carrier control. As a simple overall reason, it is just cheaper to build a device that doesn't have an LTE radio in it. Even with new hybrid chips, LTE adds cost to the handset, and causes issues with battery life. Apple seems to have sorted out the battery issues with the iPhone 5, but even so, Google had to decide if the extra cost was worth it, which brings us to the other issues. 

One of the top issues, according to Google, is that LTE networks simply aren't built out enough yet. Carriers have been working hard to roll out LTE networks, but Andy Rubin says, "A lot of the networks that have deployed LTE haven't scaled completely yet — they're hybrid networks [...] which means the devices need both radios built into them. When we did the Galaxy Nexus with LTE we had to do just that, and it just wasn't a great user experience." For example, if Google had built a Nexus 4 for AT&T's LTE network, it would only reach 77 markets in the US, and AT&T wouldn't be helping at all with the costs associated with building the device. And, since each carrier uses a different frequency of LTE band, that adds even more obstacles, according to Google. 

Some carriers, like Verizon, have built out large LTE networks, but that leads to another issue, which we have all seen first hand: carrier control. According to LTE Open Access rules, Verizon is legally obligated to allow unlocked devices on its LTE network, but right now, there is no such thing as an LTE-only network. Verizon and Sprint still use a combination of LTE and CDMA, and the proprietary nature of CDMA keeps Google from selling a Verizon or Sprint-compatible device unlocked in the Play Store. Without an unlocked device, Google has to rely on the carriers to push out software updates, which means months of testing and delays, especially from Verizon, neither of which are what Google wants with the Nexus brand. 

As we've seen from Apple and the iPhone 5, it is possible to make a phone that is compatible with almost all 3G and 4G mobile networks without compromising battery life. The issue of cost is still a real one, and readily apparent in that Google will be selling the LG Nexus 4 for just $349, while a 16GB unlocked iPhone 5 will run you $649 when they are made available. Even with the Apple tax factored in, that's a big difference in price. Google could have added LTE at least for AT&T and international users without adding too much cost to the device, even if Verizon users were left out, but that leads to the last issue: audience size.

Even with the big push last year, and the release of the Galaxy Nexus on so many major carriers around the world, Nexus devices are still essentially niche devices that appeal mostly to early adopters and developers. This limits the size of the audience that is actually going to buy a Nexus device. Combine that audience limitation with the limitations of LTE networks, and suddenly the potential customer base is that much smaller. And, really, we think that this last issue is the real key to the whole argument for Google. 

Yes, LTE adds cost, and LTE networks aren't fully formed yet, but the fact is that Nexus devices still aren't mass market devices. Average customers don't necessarily understand the benefits of a Nexus device, and maybe early adopters and developers don't make up a large enough audience to make up the added cost as far as Google is concerned. Add that to the fact that Google now has a viable way to sell directly to users in the Play Store, and Google can go back to one of its original aims from the days of the Nexus One: full control

Google doesn't want carriers dictating what features can and can't be enabled in stock Android, because once features begin to disappear, it is no longer really "stock" Android. On top of that, Google doesn't want bloatware on a Nexus device, even if it is just a couple "My Account" apps. And, of course there is the big issue of interference and carrier control which not only lead to the CDMA Galaxy Nexus being removed as a developer device, but it has added months of testing and delays to what should be fast, straight from Google updates. 

It may not be good news for users who have been hoping for an LTE Nexus this year, but for those who had worried about what the Nexus brand was morphing into (including us), it is nice to see Google taking control again. We may be years away from having unlocked LTE devices, and it is still possible that an LTE Nexus 4 will come in the future, but for now Google has brought the Nexus brand back to its roots, and that's a potentially very significant move.

source: The Verge

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posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:30 26

1. alouden (Posts: 186; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


I was hoping for an LTE Nexus for Verizon. But I completely understand and agree with Google NOT producing such a device. Nexus and Verizon seem to have opposite meaning anyway.

ANyway, no matter what phone I get next, it will be rooted and free of Verizon's bloatware.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:50 1

10. PhenomFaz (Posts: 1064; Member since: 26 Sep 2012)


just get the new nexus..problem solved :)

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:33 4

23. alouden (Posts: 186; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


It won't work with Verizon.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:43 5

28. therealestmc (Posts: 129; Member since: 23 Jul 2012)


Leave Verizon then. Are they the only network in your area?

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 19:03

56. alouden (Posts: 186; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


I could, but am in a family plan. I know what my options are. Would love a Nexus, but I understand it isn't possible if I stay with Verizon. So I will look to other options: the Note 2 (although the obscene branding by Verizon has pretty much rulsed that out), the upcoming HTC phone, a potential LG Optimus phone, others I am unaware of...Not ieal, but that's how it goes.

posted on 30 Oct 2012, 01:56 1

74. AWiseGuy (Posts: 68; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)


I've heard you can just scratch off the branding from the home button as it isn't baked into the plastic. Alternatively, you could buy a replacement home button, but that would be a risky replacement.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:35

25. remtothemax (Posts: 208; Member since: 02 May 2012)


...wait, what?

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:43 2

27. alouden (Posts: 186; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


HSPA+ is not compatible with Verizon. And there is no LTE radio. This Nexus in its current state cannot be used on Verizon. Someone wrote below that it will only be released by tmobile.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:19 4

36. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


released "in stores" by Tmobile.

It's able to be used by any GSM carrier though and its sold through the Play Store.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:27 2

41. alouden (Posts: 186; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)


Yes, forgot that part. Thanks. It is sold unlocked and can be used on HSPA/GSM.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:53 8

29. Goldeneye (Posts: 348; Member since: 22 Jan 2011)


Looks like only Apple is capable to make carriers "my way or the highway" hate to say it but even Crapsung bends to carriers desires, just look at the Verizon's Note with the stupid branding.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 18:05 6

49. Kjayhawk (Posts: 281; Member since: 07 Oct 2010)


I'm sorry people but I just don't see this phone selling... 16 gb and no lte. It might be good for a small crowd but I wouldn't expect any big figures on this phone. Despite the Fact the phone has every other awesome spec one could imagine with probably the most ridiculous price point EVER!!!

It's a great phone no doubt but I just can't see it getting popular with the masses.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:32 6

2. Atrixboyyy (Posts: 232; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)


Google should be more honest and just say it. u.s hasn't built its LTE enough and doing wat they did wit the vzw nexus would just shackle their profits .

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 19:59 1

62. Goldeneye (Posts: 348; Member since: 22 Jan 2011)


Are you kidding? The US is where LTE is being deployed faster than anywhere else in the planet, Europe and Asia barely started deployment, sure LTE still I'm its infancy but here in the US is where by next year will be available to the masses.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 22:52 2

70. Zero0 (Posts: 570; Member since: 05 Jul 2012)


The problem is that, while LTE coverage is decent, one can't live exclusively on LTE. Data on LTE is fine, but voice over LTE has barely been tested at this point, let alone deployed at full scale.

The only option is to run two antennae, which is a battery killer. And in any event, the money that would be spent licensing LTE patents would drive the price up significantly.

As for producing CDMA/LTE models as with the Galaxy Nexus (and to a lesser extent, the Nexus S), the reason for not doing so is pretty clear. Google wants all Nexus devices to be pure Android. Not mostly pure Android except for when Verizon delays an update or throws on their proprietary apps. I would love for Google to push Verizon and Sprint to get out of the way like Apple is able to do, but for now, the best they can do is not offer devices on those networks.

While it's a shame that there is no LTE, the fact of the matter is that we're talking about a phone that sells for $350 unlocked. To ask for a quad core processor, 2GB of RAM, and a high-res display with decent build quality at this price is crazy. But to ask for all that AND LTE, that's truly absurd.

posted on 30 Oct 2012, 10:13

80. Atrixboyyy (Posts: 232; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)


Its not the first country to have LTE not even in the first 5 and yea deployment has been fast but only on vzw which is why I said "doing what they did with the last nexus would limit profits" both LTE and non LTE variants should be sold at least until LTE is available EVERYWHERE.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:33 7

3. fanboy (Posts: 38; Member since: 07 Mar 2011)


Noooooooooooooo iPhone 5.0s for me.



:-)

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:36 6

4. cretinick (Posts: 147; Member since: 25 Jan 2011)


I would buy it... If they sell it to me!

Unfortunately Google seems to dislike Brazilians money...

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:41 5

5. The_Innovation (Posts: 538; Member since: 18 Jul 2012)


So what carriers is the Nexus 4 coming to?

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:02 2

16. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)


t-mobile.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:27 3

20. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


directly, it will be sold through Tmobile. However Its unlocked GSM capable of every GSM carrier in the world.

There is no advantage to buying it direct through Tmobile except that you can put it on a payment plan if your on Value and dont want to pay all 350 up front.

If they promise its still a "non carrier" device that way, I might go for that. However if it has a Tmobile logo on it, its a carrier device, and I'd rather just buy it outright from the play store. Got my wife's N7 that way and it was quick n painless.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:03 1

33. The_Innovation (Posts: 538; Member since: 18 Jul 2012)


Yea it makes sense.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:24 1

39. protozeloz (Posts: 5367; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


I would root for the 350 on the play store and problem solved :)

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:07 1

17. Dr.Phil (Posts: 863; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)


As parkwaydr said, probably T-Mobile as AT&T has already released the LG Optimus G which is basically the non-Nexus version of this device. Although you will be able to buy it unlocked through the Google Play store for AT&T and T-Mobile.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:59 1

31. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2647; Member since: 26 May 2011)


Only officially on sale through T-Mo, but the unlocked will work on any GSM carrier, including AT&T. Given the history of Nexus, I'd expect a Sprint model at some point, it might be a few months from now though.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:43 5

6. medicci37 (Posts: 591; Member since: 19 Nov 2011)


Still wish Google would have sprung for a sd card or made a 32 gig version.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:57 1

30. TylerGrunter (Posts: 859; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)


Like so many of us...

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:20 4

37. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


Agreed. Id much rather have an SD card slot or a larger/more removable battery than LTE.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:44 8

7. Ninetysix (Posts: 1331; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)


No LTE? What is this 2011?

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:54 6

13. wumberpeb (Posts: 414; Member since: 14 Mar 2011)


What kind of device has a certain ESSENTIAL feature on last year's model but not the newest one? Ridiculous

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:26 3

19. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


I don't normally say this, but it's the most asinine, inane, and downright retarded thing I've ever seen Google do.
Good Lord. This about ruins the entire announcement for me.
Google can't succeed with this. Internet speed is CRUCIAL.
However, I do agree that HSPA+ on AT&T is pretty good and can get about15 mbps down, which is close to the average household internet speed in the US. It won't compare to the iPhone in advertising, though.
All in all, bad, bad move, Goog. Galaxy Note 2.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:29 5

21. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


Why?

If it's 42mb/s capable, that's as fast as LTE, without the battery drain issue. Other than saying "LTE" on it, what advantage does it specifically have? Like the nice article mentions, it doesnt open it up to new markets or even new people by having LTE. In order to have new markets they would have to bend to VZW's stupidity of slow updates again.

Considering the Nexus is for its core power users and people that are smart enough to not want to be caught by expensive subsidy plans and carrier BS, LTE has little real world benefit to those customers.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:34 3

24. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


Every time I've tried Tmo's 4G, my Sprint Wimax has beaten it. That says a lot.
Google should have put a bigger battery in, LTE, and pimp slapped the carriers (including Verizon) so that they stop f**king around.
Just my two cents.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:18 3

35. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


then you've never tried TMo's 42mb/s 4G. I've never seen it lose to WiMax its not even close. test after test shows wimax in the 2-6mb/s area.. maybe you get lucky with a spike here or there. But Tmob's 42mb/s HSPA+ its 20's and 30s in testing. Wimax maxes at 12 "theoretical" and never sees higher than like 8.

Even metro beat sprint in the last national test, and Metros "LTE" barely broke 4mb/s.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 18:02 1

48. Non_Sequitur (Posts: 1111; Member since: 16 Mar 2012)


Tried it on the Galaxy Note 2 yesterday with almost full coverage. Full coverage on my Epic 4G Touch as well. WiMax destroyed HSPA, there was about a second more of delay pulling up Google. And that says a lot.
Oh, also, the Galaxy Note 2 is really awesome. :D

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:49 1

45. dmckay12 (Posts: 243; Member since: 25 Feb 2012)


LTE is 100 mb/s capable. Using my phone, I can get 30 mb/s download without going outside. There have been times where I have gotten more than 42 mb/s download speeds. AT&T and T-Mobile dont get service at my house. AT&T works outside, but to use T-mobile, I would have to drive over a mile down the road. Sprint is even worse.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 20:15 1

65. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


NO LTE currently offered is 100mb's capable. That is LTE-A. Yea, you will see bumps in the 30s and 40s but they wont sustain under load, just like any other tech.

The funny thing is that the first company to LTE-A might actually be TMobile. They do this "last to the tech, first to the upgrade" bit all the time. They wait till its cheaper by letting everyone else roll it out, then they roll out after the upgraded version of the tech is availible... at less cost than the original roll out.
They are loading up LTE-10 on the new LTE build out which is the tech precursor to LTE-A. That automatically makes them more advanced than VZW, and with a simple software upgrade to LTE-A, they will be twice as fast.
The same trick they pulled with HSPA. Last one to expand GSM 3G but they waited till HSPA+ was available while ATT rolled out HSDPA (7.2mb). Tmo went right for 21mb/s HSPA+ with a quick software upgrade to HSPA+ 42 at a much cheaper cost.

Last in the race, first to 2nd base.

If it doesnt work for you, then that sucks, but if your in a Tmobile area like most actually are, your silly for sticking with VZW.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:51

46. dmckay12 (Posts: 243; Member since: 25 Feb 2012)


I would say it is more like 2010. By the end of 2011, I could drive from hove to Dallas on LTE, while streaming music and downloading movies.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:46

8. khanrehan99 (Posts: 13; Member since: 30 Jul 2012)


Oh nooo, I was really hoping for a LTE Nexus 4 :-(. Guess gota wait linger than anticipated.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:48 1

9. paulyyd (Posts: 325; Member since: 08 Jan 2011)


Lol..

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:52 6

11. Kjayhawk (Posts: 281; Member since: 07 Oct 2010)


HSPA+ is 3 times faster than 3g and provides plenty of speed for an average user and coverage! But unfortunately by the end of 2013 verizon stated that almost all of its 3g map will have 4g. Making 4g the industry standard by next year, so this phone i would say is not future proof. Android really hasn't been able to nail 4g anyways on my galaxy nexus it kills the battery too fast and drops a lot. I don't know about the iPhone 5 and if it can keep a solid connection or not.

At first I thought verizon would release another version of the device but that is not looking likely at all.

Unfortunately the lack of space is a killer for me, but overall the phone is a great and solid phone.

Quick note and a lot of us are guilty of it, but how android fans are suddenly back peddling on LTE, how we use to make fun of the iPhone 4s for lacking it and now were in the same position making the same exact arguments.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:59 5

15. wumberpeb (Posts: 414; Member since: 14 Mar 2011)


I don't believe anyone is back peddling. Anyone looking forward to this device is extremely disappointed not to see LTE capability, and its just unacceptable at the end of 2012. 4G (Wimax) first showed up around June 2010 with the Evo 4G!

And the iPhone 4S was especially disappointing to not see LTE a year ago.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 22:31

69. bigstrudel (Posts: 518; Member since: 20 Aug 2012)


Dont worry about it. LTE may become the standard over the next couple years; but HSPA+ will be the fall-back and still will be around. And it will still be fast enough for anything on the web.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 23:51 2

72. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


HSPA+ is going nowhere in the next 10 years. What future are you worried about? VZW may have more LTE markets next year, but they are still far from turning off CDMA and going LTE only. It's quite future proof.

And at only $350 off contract, you can afford to get another phone next year with LTE.
Win now, win later.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:52 3

12. wumberpeb (Posts: 414; Member since: 14 Mar 2011)


If Sprint gets this model, and there is no LTE, I'm not getting it. Whether I have LTE or not in my neck of the woods, it will eventually make it my way and I'd like to be ready. I applaud Google for wanting to create a "Pure Nexus" experience, but having SOME carrier restrictions for Nexus devices is better than not having access to the device at all. Awesome deal for GSM carriers, but CDMA gets screwed.

Truly a disappointment...

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 15:56 2

14. majid_pf (Posts: 7; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)


it,s ok for my country. Because we have still 2g !!! :(

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:20

18. Jyakotu (Posts: 814; Member since: 12 Dec 2008)


I guess that's all fine and dandy for those buying the T-Mobile variant or those who are buying this unlocked, but for those on Sprint and Verizon, a non-LTE model of the Nexus 4 doesn't seem like the best idea. Still, the GNex is a very capable device and I'm sure it can run Android 4.2 no problem if the update comes to the Verizon and Sprint models in the near future.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:29 2

22. BadAssAbe (Posts: 434; Member since: 22 Apr 2011)


LTE Does not matter for me at least

No Coverage where i live
No Coverage most places
When i do use 3G its for important stuff not HD YouTube videos and HD Maps
Carriers Data cost is too high
AT&T and Verizon use different networks so you need different phones (even the iphones)
Raises Phone cost
400$ is cheap enough to buy and then sell next year when the new nexus comes out (must have in case to keep Like New) :-) :-)

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 16:42 2

26. therealestmc (Posts: 129; Member since: 23 Jul 2012)


I am cool with that. I don't really care about LTE, as long as I can get at least 5Mb Down and 1MB up on HPA+. I have the S3 LTE and honestly do not the different in actual use between my wife's Nexux on T- mobile. Yea, Speed test will reveal that LTE is faster and that's about it. I don't care about bragging rights.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:03 2

32. Owlet (Posts: 446; Member since: 21 Feb 2011)


Well, that's a disappointment. Does it have to be this difficult to have the most advanced device with all the latest features available to the public? Why is it like this? Either pure Android, fast updates, no bloatware, NO HIGH SPEED, NO AVAILABILITY for the biggest carrier. Or, available to everybody with LTE speeds, with crapload of s**t impossible for some people to get rid of, slowed down by them, with half the battery life, frustrating update schedule and removed awesome features?
Bad, bad, bad. I don't think this Nexus phone can succeed either way. So unfortunate.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:24 5

40. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


1) it has the strongest hardware, even stronger than my personal favorite, the Exynos quad.
2) it has all the latest features
3) its not available on VZW presumably because Goog is pissed at VZW for their treatment of the G-Nex updates. U want to be mad at someone, be mad at VZW.
4) HSPA+ is JUST AS FAST AS LTE IN TESTING... so I dont know why people keep crying that its not going to be "fast" on the internet. Who cares what the tech is as long as it get the job done
5) HSPA+ is available in more markets around the world than LTE by a long shot. GSM/HSPA+ coverage far exceeds LTE coverage in the US.

The best way to stop all the carrier BS is to make phones like the nexus "successful". If they think they are losing money because peeps are tired of their shyt, then they will tone it down. As long as they keep charging more and you keep paying, they are not listening to a damn thing your saying.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:33 2

42. protozeloz (Posts: 5367; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


6 the device is dam cheap, you can get it of contract 50 buxs more than the Galaxy Note ON contract (600-800 off contract)

This is the cheapest most powerful device on the market right now no matter how you look at it, yeah they could have added LTE chips and more battery but a what cost? 500 unlocked? Lazy ass Verizon update shedule and all the blame on the Big G, hell no HSPA for the masses fast updates and reasonable pricing for a superphone

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 20:07

64. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


Im officially over its plain jane ugly factor. 350 for massive specs is all I need to know.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 20:18 3

66. remixfa (Posts: 13902; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


well, thats weird.. half my comment disappeared. hmm.

Anyways

- - - - - - - -
This snobby tech geek is finally going to upgrade. As much as I dig deep into each devices tech and talk smack for missing this and that, the Nexus 4 has the holy trifecta of super power + cost + feature list. It's not perfect, but no phone is... but it's as close to perfect as we're probably gonna see for a while. And look, it even has a Krait Quad and not an Exynos (that was hard for me lol)

And I think I'll take one of those shiney new N10 tablets too (Exynos 5 and super dense screen!). For the money I was gonna put aside for the Note2 unlocked, I can have both the N4 and N10.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 19:14

58. Owlet (Posts: 446; Member since: 21 Feb 2011)


I don't think you understood my comment completely. I just said it's frustrating that there has to be a compromise of this sort. I'm not looking to blame somebody. I understand why it's happening. It's just sad that it has to be this way. I, too, want this phone to succeed. But afraid it won't with this kind of compromise.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:16 2

34. gabe92 (Posts: 27; Member since: 25 Oct 2012)


i cant wait to get this phone treated myself this holiday season :)

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:21 6

38. gallitoking (Posts: 4680; Member since: 17 May 2011)


when Apple was doing this last year how dare Apple released a non LTE device I heard all the excuses that once you go LTE you don't came back.. I would love to see this people now?.. and Verizon stated will not sell any none LTE device in 2012... like I predicted if is not on every major carrier it will not sell.

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:38 5

43. xray174 (Posts: 85; Member since: 21 Nov 2011)


first it has been confirm
second android has tons of 4g lte phones - meaning other option
third this phone is going to be 300 - 350 compare to and idevice 650
4 apple sucks

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:47 2

44. gallitoking (Posts: 4680; Member since: 17 May 2011)


cheers.. kepp drinking the Google juice.. next thing they will come in ziplock bags to save on cost..

posted on 29 Oct 2012, 17:55 3

47. xray174 (Posts: 85; Member since: 21 Nov 2011)


like the ipad mini ahah

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