Qualcomm CMO disses NVIDIA: 'we clean Tegra 4′s clock'
Nvidia just launched their Tegra 4, not sure when those will be in the market on a commercial basis, but we believe our Snapdragon 600 outperforms Nvidia’s Tegra 4. And we believe our Snapdragon 800 completely outstrips it and puts a new benchmark in place.
So, we clean Tegra 4′s clock. There’s nothing in Tegra 4 that we looked at and that looks interesting. Tegra 4 frankly, looks a lot like what we already have in S4 Pro...
Yes, they [Nvidia] had the perception [of superior graphics] help them for some time, and that helped them for some tablet wins. I think that would change. The world is increasingly becoming aware that what we have in CPUs and graphics is beyond what anybody has. So usually that technical awareness happens at the OEMs and that takes a while for products to emerge…
Empirically, we completely beat them on graphics performance!
1. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Thems fighting words!!!!
Nice to be confident. All I know is what I saw from Project Shield.....Nvidia can still do some good things. As a chip in phones, tablets....hard to say. But for straight gaming machines....they might top Qualcomm.
21. hung2900 (Posts: 762; Member since: 02 Mar 2012)
Actually I dislike both when they always try to exaggerate themselves.
"benchmarks published by Anantech, S4 Pro is twice as fast than the fastest Tegra processor"
I don't know what did he mean about the benchmark? Maybe from the buggy Linpack benchmark leading to ~600 points multi thread (which after that proven to be wrong). Or maybe he mentioned about GPU, but clearly he said about "processor", not GPU.
3. wendygarett (unregistered)
Yeah very convincing test made by own CMO...
I smell conflict of interest :)
4. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Oh snap. Drama.
Competition is nice this year :)
5. nikenturd (unregistered)
ANY VARIANT of TEGRA will always be...overrated...ever....
7. aokde (Posts: 185; Member since: 09 Jul 2012)
qualcomm is awesome. with the upcoming snapdragon 800 capable of rendering 4K content, i think we will start seeing some phones shoot 4K video in H2 2013 (since sony is pushing 4K, i strongly think they will be among the first to provide 4K capable phone cameras)
10. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Wasn't Tegra 4 also able to render 4K content? I thought that was one of the main points of Project Shield.
11. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Has Tegra ever fixed the LTE compability issues? If not...
Its telling when Motorola goes from T.I. after a few years to Tegra for 1, if that.....and hasnt went back to them since.
16. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Nvidia made their own LTE chip that is optional with the Tegra 4.
53. JWS65 (Posts: 32; Member since: 22 Jan 2013)
The main reasons why non-Qualcomm AP couldn't work with LTE modem back in 2011 was that qualcomm intentionally made their LTE modem chip work with only snapdragon for smart-phone. It had to couple with snapdragon in order to enable voice/text. This issue is addressed by their new MDM9515 and later 28nm 3G/LTE chip that go in phones like iPhone5, Note 2, DNA, etc.
I think Qualcomm did this to give advantage to their AP back then. But after that, their two big customers (Apple, Samsung) pressured them to make it compatible with non-snapdragon APs for their phones. So now Qualcomm LTE modem should be able to work with Tegra4 too.
12. amansingal14 (Posts: 283; Member since: 08 Sep 2012)
NVIDIA should give up on Tegra series. They're good with PC graphic cards only. Qualcomm is excellent in mobile phones, and intel is an expert in all.
30. gustavoace (Posts: 82; Member since: 13 Nov 2012)
Intel is expert in what? I know their Desktop processors are great, outperforms AMD year after year (and I still prefer to buy amd processors, btw). But their motherboard sucks hard, and their onboard graphics... oh god, why? Their atom processors are getting in the right way, but is not what S4 Pro is, atm.
13. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Snapdragon 800 is a quad core 2.3 Ghz 28nm chip right?
So, logical question - what about battery life?
The Exynos Octa and Tegra 4 both claim to have significantly lower power consumption compared to predecessors.
But I just can't see what Quallcomm could've done to achieve the same since the core is basically the same, with unchanged die size, and with increased clock speed
15. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Qualcomm claimed about half the power consumption with the S800 compared to the S4 chips out right now. I don't know how, I just know that they said it.
14. piyath (Posts: 150; Member since: 23 Mar 2012)
I won't change my mind based on such stern but unethical bunch of words, neither do intelligent consumers. We will look forward to the ultimate CPU & GPU performances which about to begin with our eyes wide open..
Exynos 5 vs qualcrom vs Nvidia
17. aayupanday (Posts: 450; Member since: 28 Jun 2012)
I said this earlier and I'll say it again...
Snapdragon 800 and the competitors will be doomed !!!
18. Edmund (Posts: 653; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
and this idiot thinks Intel will stay on the side-lines and watch ?? In about 6 months time the "Silicon Valley giant" is scheduled to launch a new range of power efficient chips for mobile devices that will absolutely destroy anything coming out of ARM. We're talking multi-core multi-threading SOC's
23. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
..yet there's not a drop of doubt that this " idiot " knows far and beyond more about chips than you will ever know.
Do the math now.
In my view, the key categories in choosing a phone chip are:
- power consumption
According to claims, these new ARM based chips are, amazingly enough, MUCH more power efficient than the current generation, yet outperforming them from 75-150% at the same time.
Intel's new architecture should come somewhat close in terms of power consumption to the CURRENT ARM chips (~5W vs 2-8W)
In terms of performance, they should be about on par, given that low end core i5 are scoring around 5000 on geekbench
26. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
..just to clarify.
Intel's upcoming chips should be on par in terms of performance with the ARM based chips such as Snapdragon 800 or Exynos octa.
In terms of efficiency and price, ARM should still hold a clear edge
33. superguy (Posts: 269; Member since: 15 Jul 2011)
I bet Intel's regretting selling off their ARM business to Marvell all those years ago.
It would be interesting to see what Chandresekher would say about Intel's competition in the market, considering he's an ex-Intel VP.
50. Edmund (Posts: 653; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
and it's even more obvious that you're blindly supporting something you don't have the slightest clue about.
Here's an article by your famed AnandTech that highlights the true potential of 22nm based processors
55. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Oh look who's talking.
YOU have no slightest idea on what you talk about if you think this kind of processor will be in phones this year.
Here's a reality check:
..now keep in mind that surface pro has about TWICE bigger battery than average 10 inch ARM tablet.
Yet it still has HALF or less battery life.
This means the power draw is around 200% greater than current ARM solutions, and 300% greater than that of the upcoming chips.
Use your brain, if you have any.
56. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
My point, don't expect anything close to this kind of specific(suited to x86 arcitecture anyway) performance in a phone this year.
Raw performance could go relatively close though, considering the surface pro scores about 5700 on GB.
I expect the best ARM chips to cross 4000 this year.
You're confusing raw and specific performance.
My phone is trumped in Java script tests against a given entry level laptop - but in overall processing power it actually beats it
19. tkvdog (Posts: 46; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
Bet You This Man Gets Alot Of Speeding Tickets:)
22. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6114; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)
I could care less whos faster as long i have a quad core phone. Tegra 2 did well for my atrix
24. sats.mine2k4 (banned) (Posts: 208; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)
Agreed snapdragon 600 and 800 might indeed be faster than tegra 4. However, everyone knows their real competition is from Exynos Octa ... Beat that then we will talk ....
32. ngo2dd (Posts: 774; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
The Exynos is not even a real 8 core. You have 4 A15 and 4 A7. Only 4 of the core can work at a time. Man marketing has gotten to you. The T4 has 4 A15 core too.
36. sats.mine2k4 (banned) (Posts: 208; Member since: 10 Aug 2012)
Agree am no expert in stuff but Question for you: Tegra3 is a quad core A9 and Exynos 4412 is a quadcore built on the same A9 why is the performance like night and day...?
37. ngo2dd (Posts: 774; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
The T3 has a different GPU. The Exynos 4412 has a better GPU. Also Samsung software is optimized for using 4412. It is the same as how tegra zone game look so good. Software will work wonders on a processor if it is optimized.
38. shuaibhere (Posts: 1297; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)
It's not a marketing gimmick...it's big little architecture...this will result in less power consumption....
43. ngo2dd (Posts: 774; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
But why call it a octa core when it is a two quad core. Do we call the T3 a pentra core processor? No we don't it is marketing gimmick.
25. lpratas (Posts: 93; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)
This CMO must be stupid or mad. Thinking with their Snapdragon 600 they get win in performance, as in Cpu as in Gpu, the Tegra 4, he must have been drugged or drunk when he made those statements. Poor creature. Neither Tegra 4, neither Exynos 5 Octa.
27. lpratas (Posts: 93; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)
And the CEO of Qualcomm doubting of the performance and effeciency of the Exynos 5 Octa compared with their Snapdragon 600 and even 800 in terms of GPU performance. The adreno 320 even 50% faster doesn't get beat the performance of a PowerVr SGX544MP3 at 533MHz even have support for OpenGL ES 3.0.
28. lpratas (Posts: 93; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)
The CMO doesn't get to see that the Tegra it's a pure Cortex A15 quad-core at 1.8GHz with a GPU 6 times more powerful than the previous Tegra 3 in it last version?
41. JWS65 (Posts: 32; Member since: 22 Jan 2013)
He works for Qualcomm, so what do you expect him to say? T4 is already here, but Snapdragon 600, 800 won't come until Q3 this year.
29. k4j98 (Posts: 60; Member since: 12 Jul 2012)
Notice he avoids mentioning Samsung's chip; the exynos is superior to most (if not all) chips on the market.
34. 1701nino (Posts: 227; Member since: 07 Dec 2010)
Everything that this guy is saying is ok in theory,but all that is uselles if you don't have optimized games and apps.For example most of last years games in tegrazone were better optimized for tegra chipsets.Thaz means better graphics and more effects.And thats what counts.Sory qualcomm;)
39. kikax (Posts: 1; Member since: 06 Feb 2013)
Texas Instruments made better processors than NVidia, shown by the benchmarks. A dual core TI at 1.2 GHz outperformed Tegra 3 1.3 GHz quad. Mali 400 is more tegra optimized than tegra, and has a significantly higher quality shaders. Just so you know.
40. Captain_Doug (Posts: 746; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
I'm sure both of them are super fast. Faster than I need in a smartphone. I'm more concerned about battery life. that being said, Underclocking a Snapdragon 800 from 2.3ghz to 1.5-2.0ghz would be amazing. All the power I need, a lot less battery consumption. Hopefully the X-phone comes with it so it'll have the Maxx battery too. 3 days of battery life sounds amazing.
44. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Qualcomm said that the S800 will have half the power consumption from current S4 chips, so no need to worry.
47. Captain_Doug (Posts: 746; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
They say that but I remain weary. Regardless, getting as much battery life as possible is my goal. I'll underclock until it starts freaking out then push it back up a couple hundred mhz to be safe.
54. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
But at least they made a statement about it, so we know battery won't be any worse than their current chips which are pretty efficient to begin with; according to them it should be better, though I know that 50% power statement won't be true in retail devices, it'll be closer to 20%.
I'm sure you won't have any problems with underclocking, the current S4 Pro can be set to about 1-1.2 GHz and still be just as smooth as it was on 1.5 GHz just because of how powerful it is.
59. Captain_Doug (Posts: 746; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Good to know. I agree with your estimate about them maybe talking up the efficiency too at least a little. That is a huge jump for not going down in either the manufacturing process or gong up to the next architecture. I can believe that they have improved it though, just not by 50%.
61. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
That 50% is probably based on optimal conditions with a certain software setup, like their reference devices they had on display at CES.
They might have changed the architecture around a bit for more power efficiency at higher clocks, I don't really know though. I haven't seen any specifications on the Krait 400 architecture, or how it's different from the Krait used in the S4, but something must have changed to get 20-30% more efficiency with about 50% higher clock speeds and 75% higher performance.
62. Captain_Doug (Posts: 746; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
Qualcomm does tend to make minor improvements as they go but yeah, 50% is quite the leap. I haven't seen anything on the Krait 400 either. I'm gonna go a-hunting.
42. Pedro0x (Posts: 271; Member since: 19 Oct 2012)
Snapdragon 800 and 600 are still a mix of A9 and A15 so no way it will be faster than a true A15. And 800 will be around 65-75% faster than normal apq8064 ( like in nexus 4 ) and if you only clock apq8064 to 2.3 Ghz like the 800, results in around 66% more performance. The A15 architecture is better in performance but takes more power. There is no way that Krait is faster than A15. But Qualcomm has a lot of money so maybe they could do it, but in my eyes it is impossible.
Samsung Octa core should be more powerful than Tegra 4 because of the HMKG process. But they are on the same architecture. But I think that Octa is more versible because of the 4 A7 cores.
On the GPU side, Snapdragon 800 with its adreno 330 should be 30%-40% faster than adreno 320 and tegra 4 is more powerful than SGX554MP4 by ~5%. And 330 should be less powerful than SGX554MP4 so technically it should be under tegra 4. But Tegra 4 is a non-unified GPU and that sucks, while adreno 330 is unified. Still Mali T-658 will still kick their asses by a great margin.
48. Captain_Doug (Posts: 746; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
In order to get a Exynos CPU or Mali GPU, you are pretty restricted in buying a Samsung which I don't plan on doing anytime soon. Would much rather have the X-phone with Snapdragon 800.
52. JWS65 (Posts: 32; Member since: 22 Jan 2013)
Snapdragon 800 is going to sample in Q2. So it won't be until late Q3 to see it in any smart-phone. My guess is X phone will have S4 Pro or Tegra4.
58. Captain_Doug (Posts: 746; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)
That's a little disappointing but the S4 pro is very capable and the Tegra 4 is more than very capable. No complaints here.
63. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Where did you see that? On Qualcomm's own website they say that both the 600 and 800 are sampling now, the 600 should be on the market by Q2, and the 800 should be available in smartphones by mid-year; which gives hope that the 600 or 800 would be in the X phone since it's supposed to be announced in May and be released in June or July.
Qualcomm also said that the Adreno 330 should bring 2 times better performance than the Adreno 320, not 30-40%. I know double the performance is a bit of a stretch, but surely they aren't off by 60-70%.
49. MC1123 (Posts: 1229; Member since: 12 Nov 2012)
the thing is qualcomm chips are faster but tegra chips are good at gaming!
51. Taters (Posts: 2579; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)
He avoids mentioning Exynos chips because Samsung is their biggest customer. If Samsung wasn't considering the 600 or 800 for some GS4 variants, he would trash talk the Exynos too in something obscure such as marketing.
57. Berzerk000 (Posts: 3861; Member since: 26 Jun 2011)
Why would Samsung use the 600 or 800 for alternate versions of the GS4? The only reason Samsung traded Exynos for Snapdragon in the past was because of LTE problems, but Samsung has that all figured out now.
He didn't "avoid" Exynos chips, it's just Exynos wasn't brought up in the interview. I'm sure if the one giving the interview would've questioned him about the Exynos Octa, he would have given his opinion on it.
60. Taters (Posts: 2579; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)
Because even Samsung might not have the manufacturing capabilities to do a worldwide GS4 launch. If Qualcomm makes a smooth launch easier, Samsung will consider it.
64. JWS65 (Posts: 32; Member since: 22 Jan 2013)
Qualcomm doesn't have any manufacturing at all. They just have TSMC produce almost of all of their chips. One thing forgotten here is that Apple is trying shift their AP manufacturing to TSMC from Samsung too. This will cause trouble for producing enough Apple and Qualcomm chips. Samsung on the other hand will have more capacity to produce Exynos due to Apple leaving them.