iPhone 4 users switching to Verizon not more than AT&T expected
Analysts at Wells Fargo initially projected 225,000 AT&T iPhone 4 users jumping over to Verizon within the first quarter of 2011, but their estimates have gradually gone down to 150,000, which to them now is a more likely figure. Ralph de la Vega further explained, that it is still early to tell how much subscribers AT&T will lose, as the situation remains “volatile.” Unfortunately, no details were given regarding the number of Verizon subscribers after the introduction of the iPhone 4 for the carrier earlier in February. It was suggested that some AT&T customers may be simply waiting for their contracts to expire before they grab a Verizon iPhone 4 instead.
source: The Wall Street Journal via Boy Genius Report
1. snowgator (Posts: 3350; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Be real interesting to see what iPhone users do when #5 comes out in the summer (?) and more contracts are up or at least in a position to be more cost effective to be terminated. I always felt that AT&T wouldn't lose a lot of iPhone users to Verizon, but that Droid/Blackberry/Feature phone users on Verizon would account for most of Big Reds iPhone buying public. Also interested to see how many new subscribers AT&T gets to offset what losses they do endure, with all their "4G" offerings coming out. Will be fun to watch.
2. WirelessCon (Posts: 309; Member since: 11 May 2010)
In the end, the cheapest reliable data will win. Minutes are almost a thing of the past. Data will become king. The carriers need to get their networks to be competitive with land based internet providers, that's the goldmine, that's the integration and that's the innovation. Customers would love one bill for all communication/mobile/home entertainment. That simplicity is the only way for a carrier to survive into the next 20 years.
3. DJLegacy2k5 (Posts: 212; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I love MARYLAND becuase Verizon is terrible here, I switch more Verizon customers to AT&T than even T-blow or Sprint.
This week alone I personally have switch 5 Verizon customers totalling 14 lines to AT&T...most of them buying the HTC Inspire, MOTO Atrix, or oddly enough the iPhone 4 (even tho I tell them not to).
I would love to see state by state numbers, because it seems everyone in MD is switching off of Verizon due to "coverage" issues and poor customer service.
6. iwebdroidberry7 (Posts: 230; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Where do you live in Maryland? Because I live in the Rockville, Silver Spring area and Ive been just about all over the state an never any complaints...
25. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Hahaha what a douche. You try to talk people out of the iPhone and yet they still buy it. Sounds like your customers are smarter than you.
4. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
Let's be real...most people signed up for the iPhone 4 back in June. Their ETF for leaving AT&T is about $235 right about now. AT&T prevented the mass exodus. What we should look for is people leaving at a steady rate once contracts are up next year. But who knows, maybe people won't hate AT&T so much now that they aren't the only iPhone provider.
5. DJLegacy2k5 (Posts: 212; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I had a customer switch to AT&T the other day FROM a Verizon iPhone to an AT&T iphone their reason when I asked what was wrong with Verizon: "EVERYTHING, they are terrible!".
Verizon is like Apple, they make a perfect pair, both are over hyped and under performing and over priced lol
7. giantgnome (Posts: 67; Member since: 11 Feb 2011)
Lol, right... ATT with their draconian 2GB data limit on a plan priced just as badly as the next carrier. I don't love Verizon at all but ATT is just downright abusive. ATT realizes how stupid and loyal their iphone customers are and no other company offers such a restricted data plan at such outrageous prices.
But since you work at ATT it's a given you'll simply be a company shill.
9. DJLegacy2k5 (Posts: 212; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
LMAO, only 2% of consumers on at&t use more than 2 gigs! There is no need for more...
They installed a cap because data abusive, poorly made phones such as the iPhone were data hogs and bogged down the network.
Just because Verizon says "Unlimited" (which in the fine print says 5gig cap, so nice lie) doesnt mean ANYONE needs 5 gigs of data, unelss you live your life out of wifi and on Pandora 24/7.
So let's be realistic, youre bitching about a feature that one\ly 2% of customers MAY have an issue with.
26. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
My god every post is dumber than the one before. Verizon and AT&T have the same exact voice plans and text plans. Only difference is data plans. How's Verizon over priced when they charge the same as AT&T?
8. zuno gyakusatsu (Posts: 257; Member since: 16 Mar 2010)
how can you call VZW overpriced but not mention ATT? they mirror each other with pricing. everytime VZW changes something, ATT is following right along like a lost dog.
12. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)
Verizon will soon get rid of the 30.00 unlimited data plan...mid summer
23. jherz6 (Posts: 216; Member since: 23 May 2008)
only for new customers. current customers such as myself will not be effected.
30. Liz (unregistered)
ATT is the same way also. Current users of unlimited data plans were allowed to keep their plans. Only new users are stuck with the 2GB cap.
10. DJLegacy2k5 (Posts: 212; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
AT&T offers mobile to mobile calling TO ANY CELL PHONE so there is NO NEED for an insane amount of minutes, plus roll over minutes. You still get more for your money with ATT than Verizon, BY FAR.
11. giantgnome (Posts: 67; Member since: 11 Feb 2011)
Why would anyone with unlimited data, even if it was softcapped at 5gb, really need minutes? I barely touch mine, there are so many options available to avoid using minutes, Google Voice, Skype, and much more. Seriously, both ATT and Verizon suck, but now you're just sounding like an iphone fanboy would, albeit over ATT.
24. jherz6 (Posts: 216; Member since: 23 May 2008)
and who are u with? t mobile? i dont think so.
13. My coverage is larger than you (unregistered)
@DJLegacy2K5: I find your comments amusing. I work in a high position within VZW in the WBV (Washington Baltimore Virginia) region. Ive held several positions within the region and now have the luxury of testing products even those of our competitors most notably AT&T. Coverage varies in all areas but we are very solid and smoke you guys in the WBV region. The port in ratio from AT&T customers is 3.1>1. So for every 1 customer AT&T gets from VZW, we get 3 of yours.
To clarify, the $29.99 Unlimited data plan for smartphones is just that. There are no 5GB caps. Years ago when we offered a $59.99 unlimited data for broadband cards, we did have a clause stating that if someone used over 5GB for three consecutive months, we reserved the right to cancel the contract. AT&T had the exact same clause in place years ago. Smartphone pricing may change in the future but it is truely unlimited as of now.
You speak of AT&T's calling plans as if they blow away what Verizon has to offer. You guys just started offering unlimited M2M to anyone while we offer our "friends & family" which allows you to pick up to 10 numbers of people you call the most and those are added to your unlimited minutes. Why don't you explain how the so called "rollover minutes" work. They do expire after 12 months, correct?
Lets talk about 4G networks for a bit.....Since 2007, VZW has been building out their 4G LTE network and finally making it public in Dec 2010 in roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population equivilant to 39 cities and roughly 60 airports. We will have full network 4G LTE coverage within our footprint by early 2013. AT&T on the other hand made the decision to go LTE in late 2008 which put them 12-18 months behind VZW. With the term "4G" being wztered down so much now you guys along with T-Mobile decided to say "what the hell, lets just call our HSPA+ a 4G network" When I secret shop AT&T employees I am constantly told that I can expect an average of 7mbps download speeds in major metro areas. Funny part is, the highest I can get is anywhere from 500k to 2mbps download speed. Keep in mind that this is inside of the major metro areas and if I travel 5-10 miles in either direction, get pushed down to the good old edge network. Not so 4G anymore. This has become a long ass post so allow me to summarize some key points
-AT&T 4G is a complete sham until they truely get things going roughly in late 2011/early 2012
-People can say what they want but AT&T live and died by the iPhone since 2007. This explains why they are jumping quick on the 4G bandwagon even though they cannot offer it. Be sure to look at the 1st quarter results for both companies in April. The truth will reveal itself then. There is a reason VZW has kept mum on actual iPhone sales until the actual results for 1st q are released. :-) I'm glad I work where I do.
18. blu-ant (unregistered)
first of all, for someone that is high ranking you should know some exact facts about your competitor. your unlimited plan will be obesolete by the summer of this year, in which VZW will have tiered plans(looks like someone is following the leader). second of all of the rollover minutes do not expire in the orderly fashion that you claim, This way rollover works, each month has its own 12 month expiration date, in which minutes will acculate during the 2 year commitment.
Third, as a marketing idea againist t-mobile and with the approval of ITU marketing hspa+ as 4g, at&t made the jump. Yes, an average speed for HSPA+ when launched on march 13th will be 5-8mbps so that is true from your ( secret shopping) some areas in NYC around 4-5mbps on 3g. When LTE is launched with voice and data, speeds will be implemented between 15-21+. This is not including the addition VOIP on a GSM network.
VZW is a Sham for comparing 3g networks with at&t, and its a sham when VZW unlimited plan is a 5gb cap. what a great way to lie to your customers.
21. my coverage is larger than you (unregistered)
@blu-ant. To clarify a few of your comments:
You stated that I should "know the facts" when it comes to unlimited smartphone plans. What I stated was that AS OF NOW we still offer unlimited data plans which is not a lie. I do have information about upcoming changes that will take place later in the year but I am not at liberty to discuss for the sake of my job. Point being, our data plans we offer our customers are and will continue to be very competitive during 2011 making it an easy choice for a customer to choose VZW over AT&T in areas where our service is roughly the same.
Point #2: You did a very good job at explaining the rollover minutes and also proves my point. Rollover minutes is not advertised very well with AT&T's marketing departmen
I secret shopped an in store employee, customer service rep, and an agent (best buy employee) all with supposed knowlege of AT&T products and services. I got 3 different answers about the rollover minutes and I also got 3 different answers about AT&T's supposed "4G" network. I was told I could expect download speeds between 7mbps and up to 30mbps and it would only get quicker once "4G LTE" got here. I asked the in store employee because I was quite amused with the breakdown he gave me. My question was what's the difference between this current phantom 4G service now and this futuristic 4G LTE service that was coming soon (insert sarcasm) I was told "sir, its a much quicker 4G service this LTE stuff" POINT BLANK, AT&T DOES NOT HAVE A TRUE 4G SERVICE YET SO WHO IS LYING TO CUSTOMERS.
Next, VZW does have a much much larger 3G coverage area than AT&T. Its proven facts. You guys tried to sue us in late 2009 only to be denied. I will say the overall 3G speeds when compared network to network in downtown metro areas, AT&T has a slight download advantage but nothing most customers would see as a noticeable difference. Allow me to post some of my recent results: (I'm using an ATT Atrix 4G vs. a Motorola Droid 2 Global 3G)
Baltimore, MD. ATT 1.9 down, 89k up
Baltimore, MD VZW 1.4 down 678k up
Traveing 17 miles to the west here is what I get:
ATT falls to good ole edge or better known as 2G
80K down, 7K up. Yes I am talking about kilobytes now
VZW 3G service remains.....
743K down 512K up
I did the speed tests 5 times and divide those numbers to ensure I get as accurate as possible
I have more results but I will not bore the fellow phonearena folks anymore as I'm sure you are already thinking this is way too damn long.
Ill end with this: ATT is gonna work in some areas where VZW doesn't work and vice versa although VZW will still smoke ATT on a national coverage basis. ATT may often have quicker 3G speeds than VZW in downtown metro cities and not even enough to see the speed difference in most cases (I'm sure there are exceptions) but they remain VERY INCONSISTANT on true 3G coverage throughout their footprint while VZW will give you 3G coverage whether you're downtown or in the middle of nowhere.
14. obamabinladin (Posts: 13; Member since: 23 Nov 2010)
verizon is going to collapse from the so much unlimited data and so many customers on there network and at&t is just gonna laugh in the corner and be like what now. i have at&t and have unlimited data from when i had the 3GS and have the 4 now and i live in NY, so my service is good, im fine with them the more people who go to verizon the faster and better date & service i have so go idc haha.
15. VZW WV Rep (unregistered)
@ my coverage is larger than you.... AMEN!!! I too work for VZW and get so sick of hearing that AT&T has 4G. I sign up new Verizon Wireless customers from AT&T on a daily basis. AT&T customers that I deal with want better coverage, better phones, and customer service that cares about their customers. VZW has all that and more!!! So for all you iPhone lovers and AT&T haters come on over to Verizon, if Android is what you love, then come on over and see what 4G LTE can do for you.
16. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
lol. VZW will never have the data problems that ATT had. simple fact, VZW puts in billions a year in infrastructure where ATT doesnt. ATT is a joke.. plain and simple. Once all those iphone contracts run out they will run to VZW or to another carrier. Everyone.. literally everyone i know that has an iphone is waiting for their contract to be out so they can jump to VZW or anyone else that has the new iphone.
like my motto goes.. anyone but ATT. :)
17. puzzle (unregistered)
whoever decide to leave att for verizon and has an iphone, well good luck taking your verizon phone out of the states and over seas'. so that special plan you had to go to paris or china or where ever, with your special phone well guess what........................................... ACCESS DENIED!
20. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)
Unfortunately for your comment Verizon offers a global phone program designed for temporary use outside of the country including GSM locations so yes Verizon users can leave the country and still keep in touch. Now you on the other hand sir...how are you enjoying that 2GB data cap? hmm?
37. XxVerbalxX (unregistered)
since i dont really want to pay $2 a minute to roam globally i will just make sure i get a global phone and after 90 days of service with no late payments i can have vzw unlock it for me and grab a prepaid sim when i land. u can keep getting raped by global roaming im all set.
19. pingpong (Posts: 145; Member since: 28 Mar 2010)
Why is everybody tripping about other wireless providers like you guys are in a gang or something? It's wireless service. Do you guys go out talking smack about other people's auto insurance companies? Enjoy what you have and enjoy where you work. There is no need to be bringing down other people.
38. XxVerbalxX (unregistered)
geico rules, i pwn statefarm bitches with my 15%
WOOOO GEICO GECKO!!!
22. jherz6 (Posts: 216; Member since: 23 May 2008)
ladies and gentlemen its not that hard to figure out why as many people didnt jump ship as expected. there waiting for the # 5. why get the 4 when the 5 will be out soon. there waiting for the 5. why would any serious iphone fan or wanna be get the 4? i'm still a big droid fan so the 5's wow factor will really have to be up there in order for me to get one. the 4 was a complete dissapointment.
27. saxytech (unregistered)
Yeah good luck when you are downloading something on LTE at such a high speed then fall down to your good ol' 1.5 Mbps 3G network on VZW when you change coverage areas. At least with ATT you are going from HSPA+ which has been around for a while already to HSPA. Not as drastic as a change so you have better data performance. Besides ATT is being smart and planning their LTE rollout to be in most major areas all at the same time rather than creeping across the US.
Just saying... everyone is bashing ATT but nobody really understands that ATT rarely comes out with an aggressive campaign against their competitors. ATT focuses on what they are doing right.
39. XxVerbalxX (unregistered)
yeah cause its always a good idea to not focus on what you do wrong and correct it. just keep a smiling face and bask in past accomplishments.
"uh dude ur car has no engine"
"so? check out what a good job i did on the paint!"
28. attrox (unregistered)
I work for att and i sign over verizon customers every day. And with our new unlimited talk to any mobile carrier we have ur pricing pinned for now. As far as your comparison of our data your way off. I had verizon. Download speeds are terrible, thats why your 4g phones will use sim cards your network cant handle it. What now, i talk on the phone surf the web send a text all at the same time. No glitches. Ive never dropped a call and i dont live in new york. Verizon lies about their coverage area. Att is honest and informs their customers where they will recieve good bad or no service. I find it hard to believe you get perfect service over your entire network, very vague coverage map vzw. Now that apple doesnt have a choke hold on us anymore things are only gonna get better. Keep apple we dont need em.
29. my coverage is larger than you (unregistered)
What about "2G" or better known as edge? Unless Im in a city, all I get is Edge. Hell, its hard for me tobdo these speed tests on ATT because they are so damn slow outside of a metro area. I will say that the Atrix is a nice phone for you guys. Great accessory options.
31. attrox (unregistered)
Att doesnt lie about their coverage... all you have to do is look at the coverage viewer. If you dont get service its your own fault for not doing the research. If you think our dg data speeds are bad try verizon 3g about the same speed haha. And no one can say im lyin cause i been there.
32. my coverage is larger than you (unregistered)
@attrox: I'm not going to say that ATT lies about coverage because I'm sure they have plenty of lawyers in place to advise ATT how to word their advertisements. When in comes to coverage, I test Baltimore, DC, Philly, Northern VA, Richmond VA, and the Hampton Roads area. With ATT my dowloas speeds are solid as long as I'm inside of those cities. I still don't get these fantastic speeds that ATT claim. The highest download speed I ever recorded was in DC right at 2.3 mbps.
The point I am making is that once I leave the aforementioned cities, my ATT coverage goes almost non existent. Best case is 2G Edge. Traveling to and from cities is absolutely horrible for coverage much less data speeds.
VZW has 3G in its ENTIRE COVERAGE FOOTPRINT. Sure my data speds vary but its still 3G.
To address your "That's why VZW will need sim cards because our network canr handle it" just shows your lack of knowledge in this industry which doesn't suprise me if you are an ATT employee. All 4G LTE devices will use a sim card because they will be quadband capable and eventually all phones will migrate to GSM technology. These all require sim cards.
I also never claimed that VZW worked everywhere. If you do a search on 3G coverage we all know the result there. Lol. In regards to overall national coverage, we still maintain a slight larger area but it is more even.
You guys love to claim about surfing the web, along with talking and texting at the same time. While this is a nice feature, most people could care less. In a focus group of customers who had all varieties of service providers, 82% did not think the capability was a big difference maker, 15% said it was very important and 3% could've cared less.
And don't you have to be on ATT's 3G er ah 4G or whatever the hell you folks plan to call it in order to use the simantanious voice and data????
I can't speak about all of the U.S. but in the I-95 coridor from Hampton roads to Philly its almost impossible to take advantage of that so called feature that ATT claims is such an advantage over us. Its quite amusing.
Look son, its obvious you work with ATT and you are defending your company as you should. I respect that. Starting looking for jobs at VZW as soon as you can. ATT will take a big hit this year. No iPhone exclusive rights+lack of true 4G network=equals poor quarterly results which equals layoffs.......
33. mannyfs (Posts: 63; Member since: 11 Feb 2011)
i moved back to verizon a week after the iphone came out.. couldnt be happier =]
34. mannyfs (Posts: 63; Member since: 11 Feb 2011)
i love u verizon
and effffff- U att! u suck.
35. attrox (unregistered)
dear my coverage area is bigger or whatever,
my 4g speeds are solid. I can download apps in under 2 secs, so i know you commejts are slander. I might download apps on verizon in 30 if im lucky. We never claimed that you would get 3g or 4g outside of heavily crowded areas. And verizon's conglomeration has been put together twice as long as att's of course you are going to have a larger network. Sprint has been doing wireless longer than us and we are far better than them. So watch out we are ever growing.
And my point about the maps was att's complete visible honesty about coverage. It's very detailed--go look. your coverage map shows "solid 3g" on your entire netowrk. i have had customers who switched from us come back and say their verizon 3g is no better than our edge data.
why do u assume that i did not know that verizon was switching yo gsm. Iy is my job duty to know these thing. and u only proved my point that your current network cant handle it.
15 percent of how many of verizons hand picked consumer poll. And of course when the ability to use such a feature cant be utilized properly it not going to seem fancy. But a large percent of att consumers would say that it is a must have feature. Like multitasking isnt the reason for coverage and data solidity anyway, ha! Otherwise lets gi back to edge/gprs.
once again, while you driving from norfolk to philly (which is a long trip,) if you havent planned ahead for dead zone then youte missing out on the great coverage viewer tool att offers. I mean i cant tell where my signal will be weak on yous. Sorry to keep refering back to it but you keep creating the need. And the only advantage att has claimed over you is a fater 3g network. Please it would be slander for us to say we have larger coverage. Kinda like the i can hear you now slogan. Like 90 percent of americans dont live in metro areas, and We can make up for those disadvantages with the advantages of our home solutions.
Im not worried about my job. I love how you seem ti think everyone on att has an iphone, lime the loss of iphone exclusivity will destroy us. Alot of att customers i have spoken to have switched to android anyway. And as soon as wp7 becomes perfected it will put ios under for phones just like desktops. Every company will go through hard times, and if i get layed off ill work for and authorized dealer until my position reopens. Buy i am not worried att recently doubled its sales staff. Oh and if wimax can be 4g so can hspa+. Worry about your own job cause all of he disclosure you just let out about how verizon tests its effectiveness to att could probably get you fired.
36. my coverage is larger than you (unregistered)
@attrox: First actually AT&T is actually older than VZW. You guys were the number one back in 2000 and you folks haven't been there since (I'm guessing here so I'm 100%) VZW started in April 2000.
These focus groups I mention take an equal amount of customers from every provider along with age group and demographics. Numbers don't lie. Just li,e the ATT iPhone sales don't lie.
I'm speaking no information that could put my job at risk. I've been with this company long before it was VZW (19 years) Every wireless provider has test people and conduct focus groups. You are clueless if you think this doesn't happen. As a matter of fact ATT has over 500 lines with VZW and I'm sure VZW has service with ATT. How else do you think we test these products?
If you go back and look at my previous posts, ATT data speeds are slightly higher over VZW most metro areas. I don't deny that. I did say that VZW covers a much larger 3G area than ATT. Its not slander, its facts. Again, it doesn't mean we cover every single part of the U.S. We do cover 97% and all is 3G. We have a backhaul of our version of 2G known as 1X in cases where service is poor and someone can't pick up enough of a 3G signal. As with your Edge network, it doesn't affect calls but definitely data speeds.
As I said earlier, I respect your dedication to your company and supporing for who you work for. Having friendly banter on a silly phone blog site isn't going to prove anything although it is fun getting the perspective from an ATT employee standpoint. Based on what you've told me matches what I've found with my team secret shopping our competitors. So my job is done. :-)
As few side notes before I go.......Android and iOS will continue to dominate the wireless industry at least for the next 12-18 months. I know most companies will introduce Windows 7 phones (I am testing one now) but I don't see them to make a big splash. RIM is losing ground quickly although they will introduce several new products this year. The playbook is a nice tablet so far but doesn't compare to the XOOM nor the I pad. And finally, lets wait for those Q1 results in late April. :-)