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Sprint fuels the fire, instigates fight with T-Mobile but gets the facts wrong

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Sprint fuels the fire, instigates fight with T-Mobile but gets the facts wrong
Sprint's corporate communications manager, Stephanie Vinge, sent out a tweet that contained a major fail. In an effort to set the 4G record straight, the Sprint executive tried to compare the number of T-Mobile's 4G phones with the number of Verizon's 4G handsets and the quantity of Sprint's 4G phones.

She correctly writes that Big Red currently has no 4G handsets and that Sprint has a pair (HTC EVO 4G and the Samsung Epic 4G). Where she goes wrong is with her calculations for T-Mobile. She writes that the Nation's fourth largest carrier has no 4G phones because it has no 4G network. As we recently reported, the ITU has changed its mind and now recognizes T-Mobile's HSPA+ network as being a 4G pipeline along with Verizon's LTE network and Sprint's WiMax service.

Before Sprint starts picking a fight with T-Mobile, it might be a good idea for the former to get its information correct before firing the first salvo. According to the ITU, the T-Mobile G2 and the myTouch 4G both are considered 4G devices.

source: Twitter via IntoMobile

Based on the ITU's new definition of 4G, this tweet from a Sprint executive is totally incorrect

Based on the ITU's new definition of 4G, this tweet from a Sprint executive is totally incorrect


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31 Comments
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posted on 25 Dec 2010, 00:04 4

1. brikz4real (Posts: 173; Member since: 24 Dec 2008)


It's really hard to blame her for this one. Like it was mentioned, the ITU changed their mind about HSPA+ actually being a 4G standard. I can imagine her embarrassment but c'mon..... the ITU seriously needs to make up their minds already.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 00:22 6

2. manny (unregistered)


If I Super Charged my 4 banger Honda, can I call it a v8? HSPA+ is a 3G network/technology and always will be! Trash-Mobile = Failed
Who gives a rats ass about what the itu said, they seem to make shit up as they go. The only real built 4TH GENERATION technology is Lte and Wimax.

VERIZON THE FASTEST NETWORK IN AMERICA!!

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 11:19 2

8. ssjassassin (Posts: 108; Member since: 31 Aug 2009)


I can say that Verizon Wireless does have a really fast network. Especially because not a soul is on it at this point. I also think it is interesting how they charge less for 5 gigs of data. Knowing that with faster internet more information will be requested. The chance for overage is extremely high. Where as t-mobile will charge you flat 40 for 5 gigs of high speed with zero chance for a higher charge. Also to play with your analogy, a stock V8 vs a stock V4 may have more power but when you add a super charger you can end with more power. Your stating that they could be equal in strength and power. Congrats Manny you have competently shown how the term 4G does not matter at all. I will also stick with get what fits your budget and speed needs that also provides quality service where you are. People like you make dealing with wireless a pain in the ass.

posted on 28 Dec 2010, 14:36

28. maccmill (Posts: 67; Member since: 29 Oct 2010)


theres no replacement for displacement my friend. The V8 will always have more potential, just like LTE does.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 19:22 1

14. Galen20K (Posts: 517; Member since: 26 Dec 2008)


you're retarded brikz FOR REAL you are. lol smh

posted on 02 Jan 2011, 13:22

30. stopcryinitsjusafone (Posts: 10; Member since: 02 Jan 2011)


Are you selling your honda by chance?

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 01:38 9

3. whocares112 (unregistered)


you people take this shit too seriously

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 01:42 6

4. MattyAF (unregistered)


They really do ... I mean who gives a flying rats a$$ ... I have T-Mobile and the phone makes calls , I can send texts , and update my facebook. I could care less about anything else other than that. Some people are just pathetic

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 08:06 4

5. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)


Sprint can't really complain seeing as their "4G" network wasn't included in the first round draft pick of what is 4G. In fact, their WiMAX network was added with T-Mobile's HSPA+ network.

But in the end, it's all about speed. I don't care what G is behind it. It could be EDGE for all I care, if they found a way to make EDGE work at 6mbps.

posted on 02 Jan 2011, 13:21

29. stopcryinitsjusafone (Posts: 10; Member since: 02 Jan 2011)


Man I can't read a single article without seeing your confused bushy face everywhere. My friend do you have a job?.......wait for it.........no! :)

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 08:40 1

6. insuusvenerati (Posts: 7; Member since: 25 Sep 2010)


So just because some people actually work for their money and would like to invest in a device that does more than your free phone that you beg for in the tmobile store all of the sudden they are pathetic? And why are you trying to insult people over the internet. You sound just as sad as the moron for who this article was written.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 09:36 1

7. ddsindpls (Posts: 17; Member since: 16 Sep 2007)


Get over yourselves. Just use whatever is the best coverage in your area. If it's fast enough for you then that's all that matters.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 12:09 2

9. taeh1291 (unregistered)


People people people. Its Christmas. So Merry Christmas. Can't we all just get along. Whatever carrier or speed that works for you should be the only thing that matters. I use ATT with my Nokia N8 and I love it. My goodness, did I just open myself to a barrage of !@#&?

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 12:31

10. gnRview (unregistered)


Just to set the record straight, the ITU hasn't completed their analyst on this yet.

Please not the " UNDEFINED " (Please see below actual language) word and the full analyst will NOT be complete until 2012. And to be more direct, let’s wait until a year from now and see if T-Mobile has announced an LTE (Long Term Evolution) network then the confusion really get ugly.


QUOTE from actualy ITU statement released

" Following a detailed evaluation against stringent technical and operational criteria, ITU has determined that “LTE-Advanced” and “WirelessMAN-Advanced” should be accorded the official designation of IMT-Advanced. As the most advanced technologies currently defined for global wireless mobile broadband communications, IMT-Advanced is considered as “4G”, although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies, LTE and WiMax, and to other evolved 3G technologies providing a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed. The detailed specifications of the IMT-Advanced technologies will be provided in a new ITU-R Recommendation expected in early 2012."

Stephanie did fine with our her statements, it's just everyone is trying to keep up with the demand and it will get worst over the next year. And no, I don't work for Sprint!

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 12:37 1

11. Slammer (Posts: 1120; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)


For individuals to say 4G is only about speed, is incorrect. Many programs and applications coming into the next year, will be very data intensified. While increasing speed is a great, people need to look at backhaul, spectrum and throughput.

I can have the fastest car on the road. Once I mingle with traffic, my car is no faster than the traffic jam ahead of me. This is true with older generation networks. I cannot stress enough that HSPA+ in its current form, is NOT 4G. Speed may be evident, but tmo's lack of spectrum and backhaul will buckle once new emergences of technological programs culminate.

Example:
As it stands right now, Dish Network, Comcast, Time Warner etc, are setting up live broadcasts to be delivered right to the mobile device. This requires large amounts of bandwidth. Restaurants are setting up their businesses to allow managers/ owners to monitor operations and activity of their locations as well as to check status on a their equipment. This is done through new technology I am currently installing on equipment to communicate with mobile devices.

Automobiles are now being fit with onboard computational chips to interact with mobile devices. GE, Maytag, Whirlpool etc are fitting their appliances with WiMAX and LTE chips to allow the customer to control many aspects of operation from the palm of their hands. Home alarms and video monitoring systems are equally in production for such programs.

For those into gaming: How about simultaneously kicking your buddy's ass from your house in NY while he is in California. This requires large amount of bandwidth. This is all coming very shortly. Current HSPA+ will be rendered back to slow 3G speeds once exposed to all these programs plus far more in the pipeline.

So ask yourselves if you think speed is going to be enough? Do you want a small 4 cylinder engine to try and penetrate traffic, or do you want a large diesel engine?


Please clarify that the ITU did not mention "HSPA+" in their statement. There is a reason for that. When you take all the examples I have placed in my post and add far more developments and technological programs coming into next year and closely after, you will see that speeds alone will not handle the demands.

John B.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 12:53 1

12. Doakie (Posts: 1304; Member since: 06 May 2009)


"For individuals to say 4G is only about speed, is incorrect. Many programs and applications coming into the next year, will be very data intensified. While increasing speed is a great, people need to look at backhaul, spectrum and throughput."

So backhaul seems to be just fine with Tmobile. I get consistent 6mbps all day long with spikes up to 10mbps on my Mytouch 4g. Backhaul doesn't seen to be an issue. Spectrum, so then only large carriers with tons of national spectrum will be the ones with 4g? I didn't see the ITU putting a backhaul, or spectrum requirement. Also, throughput, I get a lower ping(75ms vs 400ms), faster download, and faster upload vs my Evo.

Sounds to me you're making up your own standards that no one else has adopted.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 16:16 1

13. Slammer (Posts: 1120; Member since: 03 Jun 2010)


@Doakie,

I guess you missed my point. Video Chat plus all the things I mentioned, have not come into full mainstream standards as of yet. These things are just beginning or going to begin the infancy stage. Thus the reason you see no issue. Once more and more programs culminate into everyday use, you will most definitely see a degradation on the part of older tech.

If you read my post, will certainly see that speeds are not an issue now, but will be by the end of next year.

Tmo's claim may seem legit. However, at current standing, the ITU's outline clearly states that 3G needs to have substantial improvements in performance and "Capabilities". Performance may include speed which TMO has done. But what about the capabilities of fulfilling the very near future of what the world will be transitioning to? Speed will be breached once the load increases. This is changing with the increasing interest in front facing cameras and video chat and the other things I mentioned. There will be many other offerings of different types from different industries very soon. I would like you to compare the difference yourself between a 3G video chat and a 4G video chat. You will be amazed. Speeds are not the main ingredient in delivering this technology. It takes spectrum and the throughput that comes with it.

I've been a technician most of my 50 years and have tried to study the logistics of 4G for the last 4 years. If you honestly feel that HSPA+ in its current state can handle what is coming, then I wish you luck. HSPA+ is not designed for the constant modulation rates that will be associated with the the future of communication. Not to the mention lack of spectrum in T-Mobile's yard.

I have been in contact with the ITU with this 3G/4G debacle and I think that one of the things they were pretty adamant on in their last report, was that the carriers not abuse the definition. Currently, in my opinion, T-Mobile is doing just that. It is not a 4G implement in the realms of "capabilty". They need to make the move into at least the 42mbps HSPA+ category as well as implementing the newer infrastructure hardware. Until then, it is what it is.

John B.

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 00:30

19. iGNetworks (unregistered)


T-Mobile has a schedule for HSPA+ 42 launch beginning in Jan-Feb 2011. They have 84 & 168 scheduled for 2012 & 2013 w/ LTHE 336 & 672 coming in 2013. I have already played how much MHz does T-Mobile have game. I have found them to have the requirements in most areas. However, theres still the Sprint, LightSquared deals that could come in the future which could deliver more spectrum. Required spectrum is 50MHz total for 672 Down/70 Up. The higher the chipset the higher the speeds you will get. However, the chipset of the phone does not matter even with a 7.2 HSPA chipset you could get over 6Mbps. BTW if you have not gone over the documents of how LTHE can be achieved. You must know T-Mobile can & will be flipping their entire 2G PCS 1900MHz platform & its spectrum over to LTHE. This creates a 3G/4G AWS 1700/1900/2100 network. They also have AWS-3 auction.

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 01:00

21. iGNetworks (unregistered)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_HSPA

HSPA+ 21 is in this category.

Higher the speeds the more it can handle.

Wi-MAX is being broadcasted @ 2500MHz range & is considered to have less range due to it being higher in which you will get a less range radius coverage area.

LTE has proved already to have some downfalls & will most likely have similar pings to HSPA+ & fall within the same speed range once more ppl are on it. Only advantage really is Uplink & signal travel. LTHE supports 2 signals at once. Also there are a total of 4 streams. Theres a 4x4 Downlink MIMO & 2x2 Uplink MIMO.

posted on 25 Dec 2010, 21:11

15. Rawrzellers (Posts: 224; Member since: 22 Aug 2010)


Someone is getting fired :D Good job lady you've set the example to the rest of the world that big businesses in America are nothing more then trash talking whore bags like yourself. God I love Sprint and how competitive they get over small things. FYI American Carriers, DoCoMo, Softbank, and many more asian/european carriers mock us because of how you resell us old technology that they have no use for anymore. Keep it up sprint and with all this trash talking you can be on par with local politicians for being the most unclassy whore on the continent!

posted on 26 Dec 2010, 00:44 1

16. jbarajasp (Posts: 5; Member since: 06 Nov 2010)


well... please do some research before bashing her comments.....

t-mobile defined thier hspa+ network as 4G because of the 21mbps speeds (they even said that att's hspa+ was not considered 4G because it was limited to 14mbps)

************The G2 and mytouch 4G only have support for 14mbps hspa+ so following t-mobiles own logic you couldnt actually count them as 4G. *************

if you dont believe me then check it out here....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_G2

DONT FORGET THAT T-MOBILE IS THE SAME COMPANY THAT TRIED TO SAY THE THE VIBRANT BENEFITED FROM ITS HSPA+ NETWORK.... see herehttp://www.engadget.com/2010/06/28/samsung-vibrant-is-official-on-t-mobile-coming-july-21-for-20/

anyways.... if you feel so inclined as to hate on the sprint manager then please also put into consideration the rest of the facts.... T-Mobile has 1 hspa+ device capable of 21mbps 4G speeds (and 2 phones capable of 14mbps 3G speeds)...... SPRINT HAS LAUNCHED AROUND 18 4G DEVICES......


ITS PLAIN AND SIMPLE....
DONT HATE ON PEOPLE WITHOUT DOING THE RESEARCH!!!!!!

PS: ITU mentioned that the advanced hspa+ network capable of the faster speeds "could" be considered 4G but it made no mention of the slower 14mbps speeds supported by the g2 and mytouch.

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 00:45

20. iGNetworks (unregistered)


Here is the reason why what was said.

HSPA is a 7.2/14.4 network. HSPA+ begins on 21. Since AT&T launched a 14.4 network instead of a 21 network this is why they said they dont even have HSPA+.

When you hit HSPA+ 21 you are required to install fiber optic.

Vibrant does benefit even tho it is a 7.2 HSPA device. See if your in a non-HSPA+ area you are on a 7.2 HSPA network. Speeds go up to 3Mbps on their 7.2Mbp network. Now when you enter a HSPA+ 21 area speeds can go all the way past 6Mbps somewhere.

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 20:43

26. jbarajasp (Posts: 5; Member since: 06 Nov 2010)


im not denying that hspa+ is 4G...

im simply saying that the g2 and mytouch max out at 14mbps which by your definition equals 3g

posted on 28 Dec 2010, 08:55

27. iGNetworks (unregistered)


I understand that. Thats not what they go by. Many manufacturers dont even make chipsets past 21. But in 2011 that will change. There are already a few of them ready for primetime.

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 01:20

22. iGNetworks (unregistered)


How much spectrum do you need for LTE, HSPA+ or Wi-MAX

Will according to documents you need 20MHz for 70Mbps Down on Wi-MAX & LTE. 60MHz=244Mbps. However, when you hit LTE-A you can do 100MHz=1Gbps. But how much spectrum do you need for HSPA+. It varies but most likely 20MHz you can go all the way up to 168Mbps Down using different methods. On LTHE you need 40MHz to supply the 672Mbps Down & 10MHz to supply the 70Mbps Up. So HSPA+/LTHE requires less spectrum. You can get your 1Gbps LTHE by using 60MHz Spectrum vs 100MHz on LTE w/ a higher ratio.

HSPA+ is known to have a higher ratio of speeds you can get. On HSPA+ 21 on a HSPA 14.4 chipset you can get around 12Mbps. I bet you on 21Mbps it can be 18 to 19Mbps. But on LTE the ratio of 70Mbps is lower than 50%. on 1Gbps LTE-A you can over 100Mbps to like over 200Mbps but LTHE 672 can get in the 400Mbps range to around 500Mbps. It all really depends but HSPA+/LTHE really can outperform. LTHE really is a combo of HSPA+ & LTE combined & can go along with the LTE-A standards as in the Nokia-Siemens documents.

posted on 26 Dec 2010, 02:39 2

17. Jeromeo (Posts: 135; Member since: 11 Jan 2010)


Honestly, not knowing the difference between the letter "o" and the number "0" when you insult someone is almost as ironically cocky as saying "Your stupid.".
I get peaks at about 9Mbps some days on my N900 on T-Mobile's network in my area. I don't care how they market their network, as long as I no longer need to pay for 3Mbps Comcast anymore.
Here is some interesting related reading on T-Mobile's backwards compatible network upgrade plans:
http://www.tmonews.com/2010/12/forget-hspa-and-lte-lthe-is-the-way-to-go/

posted on 26 Dec 2010, 18:48 3

18. pingpong (Posts: 145; Member since: 28 Mar 2010)


I love when people get verbally abusive online to defend the network they are with. For some reason it makes them feel better about the contract they signed up for and will make them better by dissing other companies. Keep it coming!

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 18:59

23. luxzy801 (Posts: 136; Member since: 16 Jun 2010)


I love how people say "Do your research" when they have not done any research themselves;
here is some research for you, this is an actual comparison of GSM vs CDMA networks and this information is fully recognized as the point of resource for all the wireless companies around the world.
GSM:
GPRS: 1.5G
EDGE: 2.5G
UMTS: 3.5G
HSDPA: 3.75G
HSPA+: 4G
GSM LTE: 4.5G

CDMA:
1xRTT: 2G
1xEVDO Rev.0 and Rev.A: 3G
WiMax: 3.5G
CDMA LTE: 4G

As per Verizon, they are getting CDMA converted LTE, which drops bandwidth and MHz range as opposed to its GSM bretheren, so in reality, the LTE that Verizon is supposed to get is actually 4G on a global technological scale unless Verizon is to convert their entire network to GSM.
CDMA has always been slower and less technologically advanced than GSM and that will always be the point.

Just to throw it in, these are the speeds of all the technologies that I mentioned above:

GPRS (GSM): 33kbps equivalent
1xRTT (CDMA): 144KBPS
EDGE (GSM): 256KBPS
1xRTT Rev.A (CDMA): 600-800KBPS
1xRTT Rev.0 (CDMA): 1.4MBPS
UMTS (GSM): 1.7-3.6MBPS
WiMax (CDMA): 5-6MBPS
HSDPA (GSM): 3.6-7.2MBPS
LTE (CDMA): 6-31.7MBPS
HSPA+ (GSM): 7.2-42MBPS
LTE (GSM): 42MBPS-326MBPS

So you tell me, what is faster and better technology (By the way, CDMA LTE is slower than HSPA+, DO SOME RESEARCH like everyone says)

posted on 08 Jan 2011, 00:26

31. luxzy801 (Posts: 136; Member since: 16 Jun 2010)


This just proves how much people know about cellular networks that comment on these boards!!!
I intentionally put 1xRTT Rev.A and Rev.0 instead of 1xEVDO and nobody said a single thing about it.
I think its kind of funny!
By the way, all of you can dislike it all you want, its just facts people!

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 19:23

24. EtothaD (Posts: 5; Member since: 27 Dec 2010)


People are so funny....really who cares what phone you have, who cares what service you have. If it does what you want then great...Did you know there are still people who only use it as a phone? LIKE OMG, FOR REALLL! It is and always will be different strokes for different folks. This phone $#it has turned to the equivalent of how people fight over who's religion is righter, people take it so personal. It's all about being the more right person and not feeling like the decision you made was the wrong one. So you defend your phone and the company you may be stupidly sending all your money, to in order to feel better and righter.....Get over it people. Can't you see that they know this and keep you idiots buying a new model every 6 months cuz "it has a kickstand" A KICKSTAND!...what is a it a freaking bike! Go spend your money on an education or an investment you know things that matter!

posted on 27 Dec 2010, 19:24

25. EtothaD (Posts: 5; Member since: 27 Dec 2010)


People are so funny....really who cares what phone you have, who cares what service you have. If it does what you want then great...Did you know there are still people who only use it as a phone? LIKE OMG, FOR REALLL! It is and always will be different strokes for different folks. This phone $#it has turned to the equivalent of how people fight over who's religion is righter, people take it so personal. It's all about being the more right person and not feeling like the decision you made was the wrong one. So you defend your phone and the company you may be stupidly sending all your money, to in order to feel better and righter.....Get over it people. Can't you see that they know this and keep you idiots buying a new model every 6 months cuz "it has a kickstand" A KICKSTAND!...what is a it a freaking bike! Go spend your money on an education or an investment you know things that matter!

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