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Oracle wants Google to pay it $9.3 billion for using Java's APIs in Android

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Oracle wants Google to pay it $9.3 billion for using Java's APIs in Android
Back in December, we told you that with Android N, Google would switch to the open source version of Oracle's Java Development Kit. That's because Oracle and Google have already been battling each other since 2010 when Oracle accused Google of using Java's APIs without permission. Google's defense was to claim that APIs can't be protected by copyrights, and this led to a court victory that was partially reversed in 2014.

The U.S. Supreme Court has remanded the case back to a lower court, and a pretrial hearing is scheduled for the end of next month. Oracle has made it known that it is seeking a whopping $9.3 billion in damages from Google. That figure is based on the profits that Google has made from the open source OS. Java was originally developed by Sun Microsystems, which was acquired by Oracle in 2010.

By switching to the open source version of Java, OpenJDK, there will be no worry on Google's part about using Java without permission. But that won't come into play until Android N. Prior to the release of that build of Android, Google said that it was entitled to use Java's APIs under the theory of fair use. The latter allows for limited copying of copyrighted material.

Oracle's damages expert says that Google owes it $475 million in damages plus $8.83 billion that Google made from Android by selling mobile ads and apps. Google says that at most, it owes Oracle $100 million in damages. On April 27th, both sides will meet in the previously mentioned pre-trial hearing, with the trial beginning on May 9th.

Can both sides reach a settlement? That is something that we will be looking for as we get closer to the trial's start date.

source: PCWorld

37 Comments
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posted on 28 Mar 2016, 22:46 9

3. vincelongman (Posts: 4431; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


I hope Google doesn't settle
It would just encourage other patent trolls to try their luck

If they lose they should just tell Oracle to try get a sales ban of Android devices running Marshmallow and older
That would help force the OEMs to update their skins quicker

posted on 28 Mar 2016, 23:33 2

10. Plutonium239 (Posts: 1048; Member since: 17 Mar 2015)


Oracle is not a patent troll. Google ripped them off by using their APIs. It's not like Oracle pulled an Apple and patented something without actually making it or something that should not be allowed to be patented such as a shape. This is quite clear, Google ripped them off and they should pay for it.

posted on 28 Mar 2016, 23:40 13

12. tedkord (Posts: 11687; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Google did not rip them off. They had Sun's permission to use them before Oracle bought it.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 07:11 6

27. MyJobSux (Posts: 103; Member since: 01 Apr 2012)


Exactly, its nice to see someone who actually knows what their talking about instead of opinionated idiots. Jonathan Schwartz who was the former CEO of Sun Micro publicly praised Google for using Java. That's the reason Google won in the first place. Tedkord, your a geek among idiots my friend.

posted on 30 Mar 2016, 10:57

46. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


Not really. Sun and Google tried to get a license deal going without success, so google has been doing this to Sun before Oracle. Of course sun wanted their system on their device, they figured the do no evil company would pony up for using their code. They didn't.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 00:13 11

14. vincelongman (Posts: 4431; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


Oracle bought Sun, then sued Google straight away
So it's clear they bought Sun to patent troll Google

Plus the Google employee who wrote the infringing code was the person who originally wrote it while working for Sun

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 08:00

30. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


Read further down for my response to another. The reason why it is being overturned is because Google does have some responsibility to pay.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 19:16 1

36. vincelongman (Posts: 4431; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


I still don't see why Google would have to pay
They're updating their phones to N which doesn't seem infringe

The OEMs should pay if they want to sell phones with Marshmallow or older
Since they are the ones infringing not Google

posted on 30 Mar 2016, 06:22 1

42. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


Because N was not based off the infringing code, however 0.x-6.x WAS.

They will need to pay the billions they made profit on as the result of having code they did not pay for. For the last 9yrs.

posted on 31 Mar 2016, 01:12

47. vincelongman (Posts: 4431; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


But Google made no profit from Android
Google made profit from their various services, not Android

posted on 28 Mar 2016, 22:47

4. spin9 (Posts: 290; Member since: 31 May 2014)


Google Pay

posted on 28 Mar 2016, 22:56

7. xondk (Posts: 1402; Member since: 25 Mar 2014)


Wait, wasn't the idea with java initially "A platform for everyone to use!" platform gets used, now they want money from it?

posted on 28 Mar 2016, 23:21 10

9. ibend (Posts: 4603; Member since: 30 Sep 2014)


yeah right, even google distribute its OS for free for all smartphone OEM and dev...
If they get money from ads and app transaction, thats a whole different story...

did javascript, php, HTML, or flash player creator sue facebook because they get billion using all those website material? no right.. :-/

posted on 28 Mar 2016, 23:34 5

11. xondk (Posts: 1402; Member since: 25 Mar 2014)


Exactly, Oracle Java turning around and saying "we want a piece of that" now is just silly.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 09:03

31. Crispin_Gatieza (Posts: 1646; Member since: 23 Jan 2014)


They're not just saying it now, it's been dragging in the courts since 2010.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 09:14

32. xondk (Posts: 1402; Member since: 25 Mar 2014)


Well, yes, when they saw the potential of android take hold.

posted on 30 Mar 2016, 10:54 1

44. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


actually all the way back to 2007 when google and sun couldn't come to a licensing agreement, and then 2010 when oracle couldn't either. So lawsuit after 3 yrs of using your code that is literally allowing you to profit

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 00:04 1

13. zeeBomb (Posts: 2097; Member since: 14 Aug 2014)


Google got this in the bag fam

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 00:28 1

15. joey_sfb (Posts: 5742; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)


Google is a multi billions company. They have the money to fight Oracle. Plus Oracle already lost once with a partial reversal is not even a win.

I am not worry. If Oracle wins, it will be bad for the software industry on the whole. No one could write software with and for non open source without repercussion. As licensing rights could be revoked and your efforts could be punish instead of monetizing rewards.

I wonder why are Apple fan so happy about. For me I would just choose software solutions more closely. Avoid lock in and choose open source every times.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 10:49 1

33. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


Then you don't know Java's licensing.

http://www.itworld.com/article/2754869/open-source-tools/oracle-vs--google-over-java.html

Sun/Oracle had rules to follow, even when in open source. Google did not follow them, along with many others. Yes they should be held responsible.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 20:28 1

38. joey_sfb (Posts: 5742; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)


Are you really that misinform or you just want to troll Google regardless?

Google licensing term is Apache Software License, Version 2.0. Google develop their JVM from the ground up its called, dalvik virtual machine. Yes, oracle did spotted thirty over lines of code that infringed. But its rule that API cannot be copyrighted and even if they can the amount is not in the billon that Oracle is asking for.

https://source.android.com/source/licenses.html

posted on 30 Mar 2016, 06:49 1

43. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


Providing Googles terms for Dalvik, which despite being in house Java....is still JAVA based. Taking Java bytecode and turning it into Delvik. So while non-standard java, and was created to bypass any licensing, articles commenting on this as far back as 2007 before android was even released to the masses talked about the potential issue Google would have if they found any Java code...tada...they did.

Funny enough, Google tried to license from Sun before 2010, they couldn't reach a deal. Come Oracle, and Oracle was like WTF, you using our code, we want our licensing deal since your using our code. Again, no agreement. Boom Court. So if they never infringed on any Java Code...they wouldn't have talked to them back in 07 to do so.

As well, it was the underlying ability to write in java, and have it run on android, that made homebrew programs a hit for the platform. Without it, Coders would have had a much harder time releasing code for an OS that had little to no share after its first year. If you don't think that this helped google push its business into the billions, a reported 35billion over 9yrs, then there is a bridge for sale.

This isn't trolling, to the point a courts decision was freaking reversed. Regardless how you view the patent system.

"The Java developers license has for a long time contained terms that put developers on notice that commercial deployment of a product that includes Java requires the developer to make arrangements with Sun, including a royalty payment."

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 20:38 1

39. joey_sfb (Posts: 5742; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)


Anyway, in any business situation there is no right or wrong just dollars and cents.

It cost millions of dollars to fight expensive court battles that why Google is willing to settle for $100 millions. Oracle wants 9.3 billions and i don't think they can get it without bribing the key individuals empower to handle this lawsuit. That could be expensive too!

I guess Oracle would settle around $150 millions.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 01:17 2

17. Hoggington (Posts: 284; Member since: 23 Feb 2016)


Why does it always have to be about money?

Oracle should just ask Google to say they're sorry and be done with it.

Start a new trend.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 02:53

19. lakeswolf (Posts: 10; Member since: 22 Feb 2016)


I think java and javas api is open source,isit?if yes thn how cn thy sue?

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 02:58

21. n_garry (Posts: 5; Member since: 29 Mar 2016)


you never what situation people are at at broad daylight... maybe desperate times call for desperate measures...
reminds me of Sammy And Apple

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 03:14 1

22. netizen (Posts: 55; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)


Patent system is seriously broken when API's get patents.... When are they going to fix this ridiculous patent system????

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 04:01 6

23. nasznjoka (Posts: 402; Member since: 05 Oct 2012)


In the mean time at http://www.oracle.com they are boasting how JAVA is being used over a billion devices (thanks to google's android)

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 07:52 3

28. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


Actually thanks to the PC. Windows alone would account for a billion Java installs. And has been around before Android used its code.

posted on 30 Mar 2016, 01:02

41. jroc74 (Posts: 6005; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


You are both right tho.

Android or PC's with Windows contribute to over a billion devices.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 05:29

25. obedchuni (Posts: 175; Member since: 16 Jun 2014)


At last I think that google has to pay money to Oracle,

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 05:52

26. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Jesus, Oracle is STILL doing this s**t, 6 years later? They can screw themselves at this point. It was already proven via a blog post Oracle tried to delete that Sun's CEO (when Android was first developed) was absolutely delighted that Java's APIs were being used to build the OS. Oracle is the ultimate patent troll, and they've done pretty much jack with the properties they acquired from Sun since they bought it.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 07:59 1

29. elitewolverine (Posts: 5183; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)


True, but because someone is happy with being used, doesn't negate their patent liabilities. I can say, I am glad you are using tmobile...that doesn't mean you don't have to pay your monthly bill.

This is an article from 6yrs ago when this first started:

"The Java developers license has for a long time contained terms that put developers on notice that commercial deployment of a product that includes Java requires the developer to make arrangements with Sun, including a royalty payment. Perhaps Google believes that it has come up with a non-infringing clone."

Wait what is that? The devs license contained terms that commercial deployment of a product that includes java, requires them to make royalty payments?

Wait there is more?
"Oracle can go after Google because, while Java's previous owner Sun, did open-source Java under the GPLv2, the Java specification patent grants that went along with it, are only valid if developers use fully-compliant Java implementation. Many, perhaps most, developers have used a variety of open-source Java implementations that aren't fully compliant. This leaves them potentially vulnerable to hostile Oracle lawsuits. "

http://www.itworld.com/article/2754869/open-source-tools/oracle-vs--google-over-java.html

I don't think anyone is right or wrong, but clearly from the start, Google saw a free cash cow and ran with it, and though they could do so without having to pay.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 11:06

34. bungid (Posts: 10; Member since: 16 Mar 2015)


Google have lot of money and talent why they not create they own language like apple using objective C and SWIFT.

posted on 29 Mar 2016, 19:19

37. jroc74 (Posts: 6005; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


"Google says that at most, it owes Oracle $100 million in damages."

Is this Google actually admitting they might lose this case? Maybe I need to read the source link...

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