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ARM and Samsung putting final touches on a 64-bit Exynos, 128-bit mobile chips fleshed out, too

Posted: , by Daniel P.

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ARM and Samsung putting final touches on a 64-bit Exynos, 128-bit mobile chips fleshed out, too
A "senior ARM official" has confirmed for Korean media that the chip architecture developer has been working with Samsung to bring a 64-bit processor to its smartphones and tablets next year.

The CPU should belong to Samsung's Exynos family, and is likely planned as a direct response to the 64-bit Apple A7 chipset, as found in the iPhone 5s and the new iPads. “Executives from Samsung and ARM had a meeting today. They discussed the ARM 64-bit chip, which is expected to be used in Samsung’s smartphone next year,” were the senior manager's exact words.

Cortex-M processors, for devices such as a smart home system, have been discussed during the meeting as well, where ARM’s executive vice president of commercial and global development, Antonio Viana, has allegedly been present. The insider also noted that 128-bit processors are being bandied about at ARM as a possibility, but not until two years from now. 

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posted on 19 Nov 2013, 09:40 13

1. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4333; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)


Samsung is just a monster at this VERY moment.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 12:24

25. good2great (Posts: 1040; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)


lol i figured they would announce some rediculous 128Bit chips. haha

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 13:27

30. Shatter (Posts: 2031; Member since: 29 May 2013)


128bit is false there is no reason for it. There will never be 128bit it will be replaced with something else before it is needed. Servers are not even close to using exabytes of ram and 64bit is good up to 16 exabytes.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 16:28 1

38. MrJerry (Posts: 397; Member since: 05 Oct 2012)


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you don't wanna give these BSs to so picky tech savvys do u?
Sorry its off topic btw

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 18:11 2

41. eDiesel (Posts: 141; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)


Ad-block for chrome
Adfree for android.
Problem solved

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 20:18

46. MrJerry (Posts: 397; Member since: 05 Oct 2012)


Why should I do that?

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 21:24

47. eDiesel (Posts: 141; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)


It gets rid of ads.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 09:42 10

2. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5918; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


I think you will see 64-bit SoC with 4+ Gb of RAM before 128-bit SoC.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 09:47 4

3. Ninetysix (Posts: 1669; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)


Let's see people's reactions when other smartphone manufacturers start using 64bit SoCs with less than 4GB of RAM. I wonder if they'll say the same things that they posted here.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/The-iPhone-5S-64-bit-processor-is-for-marketing-not-performance-benefits_id47338

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 09:58 11

5. nicholassss (Posts: 355; Member since: 10 May 2012)


Giving we're already seeing phones with 3GB of ram, I'm sure we'll see 4GB of ram about the same time, if not before we see a 64 bit SoC

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:01 6

6. Augustine (Posts: 776; Member since: 28 Sep 2013)


No, ARMv8 increased the number of registers and enriched the instruction set, things that make programs to run faster without increasing power. Not to mention that it makes things simpler in the kernel side and favorssimpler programming, which hinders bugs. This is the reason why Apple went for 64 bits; it makes a whole lot of technical sense.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:28 2

15. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


Completely agreed.

But unlike iOS, Android will hardly benefit from this for several reasons.

The author of the article below admitted his mistakes, too.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/166244-iphone-5s-the-64-bit-a7-chip-is-marketing-fluff-and-wont-improve-performance

Pay attention to the comments. And I'm the same Jake among the commentators.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 14:21

33. wilsong17 (Posts: 1057; Member since: 10 Mar 2013)


but why do they need perfomance i thought sheep say the iphone are fast

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 16:50

39. Finalflash (Posts: 1872; Member since: 23 Jul 2013)


Yea, because only Apple benefits from anything really. The biased BS you are entertaining here is laugh worthy. iOS currently gets 0 benefit from the "64 bit" nature of the chip largely because it has 1 gb of RAM. The optimizations on the instruction set will be available to all manufacturers. You can increase the pipeline and registers on a chip easily but at the cost of power and of course man power. That is what Apple did to increase performance instead of the usual gigahertz route. Hence why their power usage remained the same on their 5s but with a nice speed boost on the same frequency. Also, please don't spout your NDK nonsense here, we know its BS.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 18:40

43. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


The new ISA and extra, wide registers are only available in 64-bit mode.
Majority of Android apps will be 32-bit ones though for 4~5 years from now due to the high level of fragmentation.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:18

10. tedkord (Posts: 5106; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


I will. Because it will still be true.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 09:48 14

4. livyatan (Posts: 720; Member since: 19 Jun 2013)


I'm sick of halfassed amateurish writting about mobile SoC's!

Does author of this article know what the ARM v8 is??
It is a 64bit ARM architecture announced ages ago with the Cortex A53 and A57 cores.
Samsung had it in their roadmap for years!

Apple is only the first company to have used it.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:10 6

7. ardent1 (Posts: 1997; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)


A roadmap can also be fiction. The Apple A7 chip is the real deal.

It's one thing to say we will build it; it's another thing when your competitor not only built it, but is using it to redefine the mobile space.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 13:04 3

27. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)


Yea like Apple is now said to be working on a curved iPhad (cross of iPhone and iPad) or Phablet of Android world. Everyone is just copying Samsung these days more than Samsung copying others :)

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:11 4

8. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


Sammy planned it for servers and NOT for smartphones.

And you seem to be the one who shouldn't be talking about SoCs.

A7 is neither CA53 nor CA57. It's Apple's own design with only the ISA being licensed from ARM.

Samsung lacks this capability and has to license CA53 or CA57 reference design from ARM.

That's a huge difference.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:20 4

11. tedkord (Posts: 5106; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Bull. ARM announced well over a year ago that the processors would be showing up in phones early 2014.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:23 2

12. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


It was 2015

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:25 4

14. Chipsy4 (Posts: 2; Member since: 30 Oct 2013)


Euhmm... no. Large scale production was expected in early 2014.
anandtech(com)/show/6420/arms-cortex-a57-and-corte​x-a53-the-first-64bit-armv8-cpu-cores

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:35 1

17. identity (Posts: 6; Member since: 27 Feb 2012)


A7 is based on ARM's chips. Apple pays ARM licensing fees in order to use their chips. What Apple does is they fork their own version of the chip, just like how Amazon forks Android for their own OS. Samsung and other companies use the ARM reference chips as their own chips without modifying it for themselves.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 11:06 1

22. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


Nonsense. These are different kinds of licenses.
Apple/Qualcomm *do* their own design with ARM ISA.
Samsung *may not* alter ARM's Cortex design.

Both Apple and Qualcomm don't have Cortext SoC for that reason. They are called Swift, Cyclone, Snapdragon, etc...

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 12:10 2

23. tedkord (Posts: 5106; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Samsung can and does. That's what the Exynos is.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 17:08

40. Tehk17 (Posts: 1; Member since: 19 Nov 2013)


Umm, no. Exynos is the name of the SoC, not the core.

Samsung does not use their own core designs like Apple and Qualcomm do with Swift/Cyclone and Scorpion/Krait (respectively). Samsung does not have the lisences for this. They can only take existing ARM cores and implement into an SoC. Such as how Exynos 5 chips use the A15.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 13:10

29. Sauce (unregistered)


Billy and Tommy both have a friend named Jane.
Billy and Tommy both have sausage for Jane.
Billy has told Jane about his sausage.
Tommy has filled Jane with his.

Who gets more credit? Billy or Tommy?

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 15:36 1

34. jpkelly05 (Posts: 64; Member since: 13 Nov 2012)


Jane... if she starts using Billy's at the same time.... Ha Ha Ha Ha

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:15 11

9. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


A smartphone with a 64-bit SoC and 32-bit Android.

It gonna be the joke of the century.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:24 2

13. Chipsy4 (Posts: 2; Member since: 30 Oct 2013)


It's perfectly possible for Samsung to adapt Android to fully support 64bit SoC's just like Intel has already done. For one 64bit support is already baked into the Linux kernel. But I have to say that I don't like that route one bit, I don't like Samsung messing with Android this much and not particularly a fan of their software either so... :s (they make great hardware though).

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:36 3

19. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


Most probably not.
1. Android isn't Samsung's
2. Android isn't Linux. Kernel is just a very small portion.
3. ARM64's ISA is rewritten while x64 is just an extension.
4. No one expected Apple jumping to 64-bit this year.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:58 4

20. tedkord (Posts: 5106; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


“[While Apple touted 64-bit support in the new iPhone,] that’s done in Linux, has been done for a long time. The Android ecosystem just picks that up by default, they don’t have to go through any special development process to do that.” – Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:29 7

16. tedkord (Posts: 5106; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Android is already 64 bit capable, has been for quite some time, because the kernel is Linux. Very little work will need to be done by Google. Further, since Android compiles apps right on the device, the said will be compiled in 64 bit and not need any work from developers.

“[While Apple touted 64-bit support in the new iPhone,] that’s done in Linux, has been done for a long time. The Android ecosystem just picks that up by default, they don’t have to go through any special development process to do that.” – Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin

But, I suspect you've read that before and just choose to ignore it.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:58 1

21. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


The 64-bit Linux kernel you are talking about is the Intel version.
The first 64-bit Linaro toolchain went online in September. Nothing reported since then.

Kernel is just a small fraction of the whole OS. Android so much more than the Linux kernel.

Jim Zemlin apparently knows nothing about Android apps. It seems he is referring to the Dalvik VM,
He's right with all those SDK based "hello world" junks flooding Play Store, but serious, performance hungry apps are NDK based. And they HAVE TO BE REBUILT.

Isn't it funny? On 64-bit Android (whenever it might become available), junk apps get 64-bit accelerated while serious apps stick to 32-bit.

Will the NDK-devs build their apps for 64-bit? I wouldn't bother due to the fragmentation.

Just look at Play Store. Vast majority of the apps still target 2+ years old 2.x. And there are reasons, very good ones.

When will people get enough 64-bit optimized apps in Play Store? By the time the first 64-bit Android phones are worth nothing, in 4~5 years at this rate.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 12:13 1

24. tedkord (Posts: 5106; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


And once again completely incorrect. Very few apps are native code. And I'd wager Mr. Zemlin knows significantly more than you about it.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 18:22

42. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


If you knew how horribly slow those pure SDK apps are, you wouldn't say such a BS.
64-bit is pretty much the dead end for Android. Face the truth. It's game over.

posted on 20 Nov 2013, 01:34

50. livyatan (Posts: 720; Member since: 19 Jun 2013)


All android apps are non-native.
And they are slow because of Dalvik just in time interpretation.
With ART's ahead of time, this will be addressed.

It's amazing how you give your self the upper ground before the whole industry.
Samsung and Google know what they are doing, if you doubt that then you're just an ignorant fool.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 12:34

26. tyger11 (Posts: 81; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)


This may be one of the reasons ART is a developer option in KitKat, to replace Dalvik.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 10:36 2

18. ArtSim98 (Posts: 3175; Member since: 21 Dec 2012)


Yep. Almost as bad as iPhone 5s with iOS7

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 13:07 1

28. nexusdude (Posts: 151; Member since: 22 Aug 2013)


I'll wait for the 256 ones.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 13:39

31. PorkyBurger (Posts: 247; Member since: 18 May 2013)


Google, better start doing something for this 64-bit thing.....Way to go, Samsung.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 13:52 3

32. Ronny666 (Posts: 108; Member since: 08 Jun 2013)


When I read some of the comments here, I am starting to wonder if they just grabbed a time machine from the future to comment here or pretending to be an intelligent computer engineer or software developer.

1) Samsung have been sticking to ARM Cortex designs for long time now (also kicking their competitors) and I do see any flaws in them until the Exynos 5410. By the way, Samsung have announced that they will be working on 64-Bit custom CPU cores and have been negotiating with ARM for the licenses some time now.

2) Samsung is Google's premium partner (you should why), and I don't see why Google would choose to ignore the opportunity to move to 64-bit OS rivalling Apple's iOS7, unless if their own developers are less capable than the online commentors here.

3) Play Stores indicate minimum requirement for the apps and most of them work well with 4.0 and above. They are not actually targeted on Android 2.x alone. Futhermore, there are large number of devices that are still running on Gingerbread and it is the second most popular version of Android.

Whether it is possible or not, let's see that next year instead of making worthless assumptions based on half-baked knowledge.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 22:27

48. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


You don't need a time machine to see what's happened int the past and what's happening right now.

1) I don't doubt Samsung will have no problem pulling out a decent 64-bit SoC. In fact, I highly respect their progress so far. They did some mistakes with the 5410, but the 5420 is a beast.

2) Unlike Apple, Google has TONS of problems moving to 64-bit. It's not about the relation between Samsung and Google.
Apple has pretty much everything : own SoC, own OS, own toolchian, own SW, own HW, own design, buying power, etc that work together very efficiently and seamlessly.
What about Google? Samsung/Qualcomm SoC, GNU kernel, AOSP heavily relying on contributors, Linaro toolchain, OEM SW, OEM HW, OEM design.
It's not that Google doesn't have top-notch engineers on their own, it's just the coverage that lacks. And the fact that the OEMs never share their works doesn't help either.
Ping pong takes lots of time.

3) You are quite misinformed in this matter. When an app targeted for 2.x happens to run flawlessly on KitKat, it's thanks to the backward compatibility of KitKat, nothing else.
That particular app is and remains built around Android 2.x without benefiting from enhanced features of higher versions of Android offer.
Fragmentation is a serious problem.
You can't blame the app devs for not targeting ICS or higher. They have to run their businesses, and targeting higher OS versions would be suicidal due to the fragmentation.
You might hype how great the new API in the most recent Android is, but the brand new phone you just purchased most probably will be trashed long before a meaningful number of apps making use of this API starts appearing.
That's really sad, and most Android users seem not to be aware of this.

Another thing beside the fragmentation Android is cursed by is Java(SDK).
For developers eager to create unique, exciting apps that require performance, Java is simply a big wtf, literally.
For example, MS Office 2007 running on a 5+ years old Windows machine beats the hell out of StarOffice (written in Java) on the fastest i7 machine currently available in performance and UX. Java is THAT slow.
Google initially made only SDK available to app devs, and the first apps were all unbearably slow.
Google realized its mistakes and released NDK and JIT compiler. And that's the point where Android became interesting for developers and customers as well.
Although the JIT compiler accelerates SDK apps by a very good margin, it's still no match for NDK apps. It will never be.
Java has been and will be simply the wrong language for performance hungry projects.

True, SDK apps run automatically in 64-bit mode on 64-bit Android. Absolutely no doubt in that. But to what end? They most probably don't need the extra 64-bit performance to start with.

posted on 20 Nov 2013, 00:20

49. JakeLee (banned) (Posts: 1021; Member since: 02 Nov 2013)


And what about the NDK apps? They have to be ported to 64-bit ones in order to benefit from the extra 64-bit performance.

And again, would you bother doing this if you were an app developer with far less than 5% market share of 64-bit Android devices?
You can ask any developer around you. They will say "no" without thinking twice. Some might add "unless Google makes it worthwhile for me."

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 15:42

35. speckledapple (Posts: 879; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)


So next year I can upgrade to a much faster Note 4 with a 64bit processor then my next upgrade will be for the even faster 128 bit processor. I like that action.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 15:58

36. jpkelly05 (Posts: 64; Member since: 13 Nov 2012)


Ok. You all need to look at the big picture. Google will probably easily bake 64 bit into next year's update, especially if there is a 64 bit SOC available. They would do it just because it is the next step in it's evolution. It will eventually happen if not next year. Look at Intel and AMD 10 years ago, it was just the next best thing to do AND they had to have MS make a 64 bit version before it could be used properly.

What would that also mean... a possibility to start baking Android into Laptops. As much as some of you disagree, this one thing would change all of our worlds. Especially our governments use of Microsoft universally. MS might die without their beloved 100 to 300 price for software being purchased. I read a lot of comments here. The one that really stood out to me was "We really didn't expect iOS to go 64 bit this year". Well lets be honest with ourselves.... we know nothing! We can guess, but it doesn't change that fact. The one thing I can say is that we should hope Google starts making Android for Laptops - EVEN If you hate Android. It would mean that Apple and Microsoft have to up their game a lot/little, which means they will come out with more products you MS and Apple fanboys will love even more. We should all hope for technology to get better and better & smaller- even if we don't need it. I personally am hoping for holographic displays to start showing up. That is what I want to see in 5 years time. Screw flexible displays. If anything it might be nice to know that my screen will be unbreakable, or that the display will come out of a pen.

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 16:10

37. jpkelly05 (Posts: 64; Member since: 13 Nov 2012)


Search the following for more info on Holographic displays

Soon We'll Get To View Holograms On Our Phones And Tablets

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 19:09

44. hellonerds (Posts: 265; Member since: 27 Aug 2013)


my friends work at qualcomm here in san diego and 64bit dragons are in the works still very early stage.. should be ready in 8 months or so.... you didnt hear this info from me :D

posted on 19 Nov 2013, 19:26

45. bugsbunny00 (Posts: 1239; Member since: 07 Jun 2013)


i can see who's behind apple... :)

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