Nokia shares soar 6% in Finland on rumor of Samsung bid
posted by Alan F. / Jun 08, 2012, 12:33 PM
Nokia would certainly be an affordable purchase for Samsung. The latter is raking in big bucks with the recently launched Samsung Galaxy S III which had 9 million units pre-ordered last month according to a company executive, not including the U.S. and Canada. Swedish newspaper Dagens industri reports that Samsung has offered $4 Euros a share for Nokia. That would work out to a bid of $18.7 billion or a 70% premium over the current trading price of the company. Nokia has refused to comment on the story. Most analysts believe that Microsoft would be a better fit for Nokia because of the latter's reliance on Microsoft's mobile OS, Windows Phone. Nokia has produced the flagship Windows Phone model, the Nokia Lumia 900 and by purchasing Nokia, Microsoft could join Apple and Google (which owns Motorola Mobility) in producing hardware for its own mobile platform.
Posts: 74; Member since: Nov 15, 2011
i don't see any big advantage Samsung will gain from it. but they can do a good thing for the world, buy Nokia then kick stephen elop. break deal with microsoft n adopt android. ;)
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 12:42 PM 3
Posts: 1152; Member since: Apr 30, 2012
advantage you say? If samsung buys nokia, they could improve their build quality in their handsets. HAHAHA
posted on Jun 09, 2012, 2:38 AM 3
Posts: 14605; Member since: Dec 19, 2008
there are a few things that i can see happening from this 1) patent portfolio. Nokia has TONS of patents. What better way to leverage against apple's bullying than with another few thousand old school patents. 2) Nokia's camera tech. Proview camera + Galaxy phone? who wouldnt want that??? 3) leverage against MS. Nokia is MS's primary partner. If Samsung buys Nokia, that takes a let right out of the WP table and pretty much knocks it over.. unless MS plays ball with samsung. Its a power move. Not only would Samsung be the biggest ball in Android world, they would instantly be the biggest ball in WP7 world, as well as having Tizen on the side. With WP projected to overtake iOS in the next few years, that puts them in a world of massive dominance. Between the rumors of samsung buying/liscencing RIM and buying Nokia, I think Nokia would be the much smarter move.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 12:53 PM 9
Posts: 3614; Member since: Jan 19, 2011
Seems I have very little to disagree with you these days, remixfa. If Samsung is looking to be the biggest grizzly in this huge wilderness we call mobile, this is a great possibility. Sammy hasn't been shy about redoubling their efforts on WP offerings, and an acquisition of a company with tons of exclusives and a map service rivaling Google (and about the same time Apple wants to launch their own) may not be that crazy. Nokia is already in tear down and rebuild mode, so the 1st steps (shedding Symbian, cutting workforce, streamlining products) has begun. I am not sure it could happen, but Samsung is big enough to do it and have HUGE advantages over companies like HTC, LG, and even Google backed Motorola going forward if it works out. Huge risk, huge reward. I do not think Microsoft would lose sleep over this. The Nokia branded devices would be WP, Samsung branded devices would be Android, and Samsung would be backing them. Microsoft sticks to software, and has a huge partner that is already excited about Windows RT in tablets and a vested interest in building a strong ecosystem. Not a bad deal.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 1:09 PM 4
This is a new twist I did not foresee... and it is a very plausible one. Samsung has much to gain from acquiring Nokia's patents, and Microsoft has much to gain from forming a stronger bond with Samsung as well. Furthermore, Bringing Samsung more into the WP fold will please Apple, especially if continued pressure on Google/Motorola and HTC causes Google to sell off Android to someone like, say, Sony... then you get Sony, Microsoft, and Apple as the three big OS providers (Android, Windows Phone, and iOS respectively), with HTC partnering with Sony as is already becoming the case (the super-phone Android team-up), with Samsung, and maybe LG and Huawei and ZTE and others, partnering with Microsoft (the new 'cheap' OS to license), and Apple still has the 'premium' iOS all to itself. Before this news item came out, I would have said that by 2018, the US mobile market would have looked about like this: 76% iOS, 16% Android, and 8% WP... and that the international mobile market would have looked more like this: 50% Android, 25% iOS, 25% WP. Now, this news, if it turns out to become true, could change that entire balance... I would be looking at something more along the lines of: unified mobile market (US and international combined by weight) - about 60% WP, 25% Android, and 15% iOS. Although these figures I cite are very generalized guesses prior to the availability of real info, think about it... Motorola gets ousted as the largest manufacturer of analog mobiles in the world in the mid-1990's by Nokia... Nokia gets ousted as the largest manufacturer of GSM/WCDMA mobiles in the world in 2011 by Samsung... Samsung buys Nokia, and takes Nokia's place in the WP agreement with Microsoft, and as the largest manufacturer of LTE mobiles in the world, pushes WP out of obscurity at an extremely affordable pricepoint which, thanks to Apple's lawsuits, is now competitive with Android in developing markets... RIM disappears into oblivion... Google sheds Android, and Motorola's manufacturing assets and mobile patents, to Sony when pressured by Microsoft and Apple litigation and bans, making Android too expensive for Google to keep holding onto as an open-source project... Sony turns Android into a licensed semi-closed project reserved for high-end devices, and in partnership with HTC and any new licensees, makes expensive pioneering super-devices for tech-heads... Microsoft, with licensed OEM's Samsung and LG and Huawei, ZTE, and many others, sweeps the world with affordable WP8 devices and Windows 8 tablets/PC's that keep Microsoft in top market share position thanks to affordability, ubiquity, and ease of use of the new Metro UI... Apple keeps doing what they have always done, 'innovating' at a comfy pace with IP agreements that allow them to produce expensive fashionable elegant intuitive 'premium' handsets and devices with patents shared from the others as the others willingly submit to Apple's new nanoSIM standard, and 'raking in the dough.'
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 1:41 PM 3
Furthermore, this would temporarily restore the balance the big players (Microsoft, Apple, Sony) are seeking by cleaning out opposition that cannot be tamed (Google/Motorola), or that has served out its usefulness in the new 'system' (Palm, HP, Ericsson, Nokia, RIM), and by taming any opposition that cannot be defeated directly (Samsung, HTC). The 'new order' will bring peace to the big players, and allow new OEM's (Huawei, ZTE, Meizu, Haier), as well as a few established ones (Samsung, LG, HTC, Pantech/PCD, Sharp... etc.) who have survived, to thrive as long as they agree to 'play nice' with the big players (Microsoft, Apple, Sony) and not 'rock the boat' too much. Less choices for you and me means more money for these guys, and less work for pesky stuff like real innovation... And, of course, Vertu will keep making Symbian handsets for the specialized and rare uber-luxury market of people who settle for nothing less than the best... which they say ordinary goofballs like me will apparently never be able to comprehend...
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 1:55 PM 4
Posts: 14605; Member since: Dec 19, 2008
woah woah woah tiger. why the heck would google sell ANDROID to Sony??? Dude, that is even less likely than your predictions about apple dominating market share. :) At this point, the sales potential of Android is way to big for google to sell. The future of most of their products is heavily tied into android. Selling that off would mean selling against google's own future, which just isnt going to happen. Tell me what product of Google that is recently out or coming out isnt tied into Android? They are never going to sell it, just like Apple is never going to be able to get rid of it. Besides, Sony could never afford the price tag. The ONLY company that could even try to swallow that price pill would be samsung, and that would never happen anyways (nor would I want it to). Im not even gonna comment on that silly mess about the new world mobile order and "sony" being one of the "big guys". Sony's day has long passed.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:04 PM 4
Well, tell me then, how much money has Google made from the development of Android? Have they had any direct income from Android? How much does Google make from Apple? What would Google do if Apple and Microsoft caused, through bans and litigation, Google's retention of Android to become more expensive to keep than any income they are getting from it... and hence, a liability? I can tell you now that Google has not yet made a billion dollars in profit from Android in all four years that it has been out commercially, and as Google's AdSense is MUCH more the heart of their profit sources, and their search engine abilities more central to their draw of customers, Google could easily afford to dump Android if Apple and/or Microsoft could ask for even just several billion in damages.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:46 PM 3
Posts: 14605; Member since: Dec 19, 2008
when you sell something, its not just based on income, its based on its total percieved value. When you take Android.. which is free.. and add it with all the things made FOR android that would have to be sold with it, like Maps, Gmail, GMusic, Drive, Google's new eye glasses, Play store and licenses to all the apps, and pretty much everything google has made for the last 3 years (and has in development for the next 10) and realize that all that would have to be sold WITH Android as part of the complete package, it gets really expensive really quick. What is android without all the add ons? its a mobile linux OS. Which is also free. The value in android is its pliability and what the ecosystem has already made. If they wanted just the free android, they can simply go to google.com and download it and build their own ecosystem, just like Amazon did. If they want to BUY "Android", then thats going to cost a huuuuge chunk of change. Continuing to think that way shows that you have a complete misunderstanding of what Google wants with android. Its not a bought and sold commodity. Its the future of the entire company. Its not just a "project", its their lead in to a whole new world. Android isnt just a mobile OS, its an OS for ANYTHING with unlimited potential. Google selling android is even less likely than Apple dumping iOS.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 3:31 PM 2
I must respectfully disagree, although I do understand what you are saying... the aggregate is worth more than the sum of its parts. Such could certainly be the case for Android... however, what you are not thinking about is the fact that Apple and Microsoft often sell Google products through their OS's as well, through default search, ads, etc. Android is indeed optimized to deal out all additional Google affiliated products in some way, shape, or form, but a lot of other OEM's play ball in that arena, too. Google would not likely lose a ton of ad revenue (and by "not likely lose a ton", I'm not saying that the lost revenue would be less than any set amount... I am saying that lost revenue would be a rather insignificant fraction of total revenues) if Android was to leave their grasp by whatever means. Google has the ability to keep offering many products, even ones that are Android-related, into the future even if Android gets bought, so if they got PUSHED they would not lose much more than the sum of Android's parts... revenues from AdSense, searches, apps, and the like would continue at full-steam on alternate platforms of iOS, WP, and, in fact, Android wherever it ends up. Thus, if Apple and Microsoft can PUSH Google with bans and litigation, whether directly or via proxies, to make Android especially expensive to hold on to, without cutting their alternate revenues at all, Google would do what any other business would do... let the thing go to the highest bidder! Google is still a business. They still have a bottom line to meet, and it still hurts them if an integral product in their future plans, but not particularly central to their making of money, becomes a huge liability. They will do what any other business would sensibly do... perhaps not so much the way Apple does business, but close enough. Apple, on the other hand, makes such an incredible amount of money from iOS that to suggest that it is easier for them to dump iOS than it is for Google to dump Android is, frankly, rather absurd.
posted on Jun 09, 2012, 10:46 AM 1
Posts: 3614; Member since: Jan 19, 2011
ROFL, hep, buddy!!! I am always amazed at where your mind goes!!! You got all that from one rumor that is a long shot anyways!!! Dude, never change!! There is enough in those two posts to keep the average mobile enthusiasts busy for days! :-D
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:09 PM 3
Haha... yeah, that is kind of the point. This rumor is far from becoming true any time soon, I would think, but the point of any theorist is to look at what COULD BE, and not just be narrowed in scope to what IS. So, when I start churning out stuff like this, this is my own way of thinking through the forces and desires that are at work... laying bare the foundational principles that are driving the system, and looking at who would win, and how, from the rumor-at-hand becoming true.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:40 PM 3
Hahaha... true, assuming we somehow look at about the same stuff, and end up drawing two entirely different conclusions about the future, it is hilarious. Prediction is indeed fun, though... I'll give you that! However, I sometimes find myself feeling like many people count WAY too many scenarios right out of the realm of possibility, without considering for a moment that occasionally things which may seem impossible do, from time to time, happen. I'm not necessarily talking about the impossible from a rule-breaking standpoint, but rather the "impossible" which is technically possible but considered highly unlikely by most. When "impossible" things happen, people get all bent out of shape because they failed to include the "impossible" (and yet technically possible, but thought to be highly unlikely) in the realm of possibility, where it should have belonged.
posted on Jun 09, 2012, 10:55 AM 1
Posts: 645; Member since: Oct 23, 2011
Samsung might take these guys and that would give them serious courtroom firepower against Apple. Would Nokia be run as a separate company or be absorbed into Samsung Mobile unit? Google would be a better choice as it would give blanket protection to all android OEM with all the patents in the hands of a company that doesn't seem to concerned about suing everyone over crap, but not sure I can trust giving that much power to any one entity. As it stands Google is in a much closer position to launch it's own cell service with it's own phones, seeing as Android is in a lot of manufacturers phones, Google might just launch a cell service that's data oriented and leave manufacturers to build phones that support it and having no favorites even though they own Motorola Mobility. We'll see when the Nexus 5 launches later this year.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 1:31 PM 1
Posts: 145; Member since: May 16, 2012
Never, that will be stopped by the antitrust regulators. Samsung will have complete monopoly over the phone market if TRUE.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:06 PM 1
Posts: 3614; Member since: Jan 19, 2011
No, they wouldn't. It would be a tough sell, but they could make it work. There are so many established manufacturers and Nokia has slid in sales enough that Sammy could get this approved. Apple, LG, HTC, RIM, and Motorola are all strong enough in sales in both Smartphones and Feature phones that the case could made. I think......
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:17 PM 2
Posts: 6023; Member since: Dec 30, 2010
How would they have complete control when your favorite company and phone Apple and the iPhone...have carved out a place for themselves that I dont see anyone taking any time soon? Every new iPhone release breaks sales records from before.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 6:04 PM 0
Posts: 1313; Member since: Jan 17, 2011
If Nokia was for sale, MS would have bought them a long time ago. Hey remember the rumors Samsung was bidding for rim? Just a bunch of BS from BS people.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 2:10 PM 3
Posts: 183; Member since: Oct 31, 2011
nokia doesnt have to be "for sale" if samsung makes an offer to the shareholders of nokia to buy their shares at a price that the share holders are happy to sell at, Samsung can buy enough shares to get control of nokia. or Samsung makes an offer to the CEO of nokia about buying all the shares. I do believe it is the CEO's job to make his or her shareholders to make money. so, if the shareholders get together and say, "We want to make 70% profit on the shares we currently own from selling our shares to Samsung... then lets sell them.
posted on Jun 08, 2012, 3:40 PM 2
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