AT&T Mobile Share to launch August 23rd
To help you decide how much data you need, clicking on the sourcelink will allow you to use some tools provided by the carrier to estimate how much data you will need to purchase each month. 1GB will cost you $40 plus $45 for each smartphone on the plan while 20GB runs $200 plus $30 for each smartphone or feature phone. Tablets cost $10 each to be added to a Moble Share Plan. You also receive free access to AT&T Hotspots for capable devices. For more information, check out the video below.
AT&T customers not interested in Mobile Share can continue with their current plan.
source: AT&T (1), (2) via Engadget
1. PAPINYC (banned) (Posts: 2315; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
1. Such copy cats; they have to do everything Verizon does.
2. How the hell is a family supposed to share 1GB on a 2G data network?
8. gameday78 (Posts: 47; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)
well when you have alot of tight wads who don't want to spend alot of money on data but want Iphone 4's or Androids and bitch and complain about 20 bucks a phone for 300MB. This will give them more data and save them a few bucks a month. FYI, Att has had these in the works since last fall. I have been telling customers about the plans for a over a month now about them arriving for back to school.
12. kcombs (Posts: 254; Member since: 15 Dec 2010)
Not copying anyone, at&t started working on the plans last year way before Verizon did.
19. PAPINYC (banned) (Posts: 2315; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
iGuess their implementation of said plans are just as slow as the network's bandwidths.
26. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
I predicted shared data plans well over a year ago, and have been an indirect Verizon rep for over 2 years, so if I thought about it, I guarantee you Verizon has been working on this at least as long as ATT. I've been saying on other threads blasting Verizon for these plans that other providers would soon follow suit, and here we are. You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict this sort of thing.
37. kcombs (Posts: 254; Member since: 15 Dec 2010)
well lets put it this way, when at&t's plans for shared data were "leaked" a few weeks later Verizon's plans were "leaked".
46. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
When someting "leaks" does not indicate who thought of what first dude. All anyone has on "who copied who" here is speculation at best until both Verizon and ATT announce when they started the ball rolling on the shared data plans. Until you provide proof, all you have is an opinion, not fact.
13. mandkeee (Posts: 78; Member since: 27 Feb 2009)
samsung copy apple as well....
samsung and AT&T are copycats
14. -box- (Posts: 3879; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
It's not copying.
AT&T's CEO or president or whatever Ralph de la Vega announced shared data in March of 2011, just isn't being implemented until later this month.
The data tiers are different. AT&T has a noticeable gap between 1 and 4GB/month, but goes up to 20GB without having to call in advance to buy more data.
AT&T is offering these alongside their existing plans, plans and not forcing anyone to go on them. I believe they will even let customers switch between them at will.
This is for 3G and up (per AT&T's website) devices, so your statement about 2G is erroneous. Also, as reported earlier, they are shutting down the 2G network in 2017.
48. BLikens1619 (Posts: 53; Member since: 12 Apr 2008)
If you think it's copying, then you don't read any articles. Both companies were talking about shared data at the beginning of the year, Verizon was just first to the table.
5. gameday78 (Posts: 47; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)
if they copied Verizon then they would make everyone switch to the new plans... Att is just offering this to customers who want to share. If you add a new line to a verizon plan you are forced to switch to the new share plan. With Att you dont have to switch but its an option if u want to save money.
6. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Ok AT&T rep. The plans are exactly like Verizon's so therefore copying.
7. NexusKoolaid (Posts: 314; Member since: 24 Oct 2011)
Save money? My family's monthly bill would go up by about $40 a month under the new plan.
9. gameday78 (Posts: 47; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)
take a cust with 70 for min, 30 for text and 10 for two lines and 20,20,20 for data. thats 170 a month for less then 1gig. new plan 40 for data, 45,45,45 and thats unlimited call and text so thats 175 then but unlimited calling and 125mb more. Or take this option, a user has 1400 min 90, 30text, 10 and 20,20,20 now thats 190 vs 175... ive looked at these for two months now and 9 out of 10 ways its a better deal but not every time and it gives customers the option to switch if they want. LASTLY no one makes anyone stay with Att, and I do work there because I feel (and I really do) that they have the best phones, service and packages.
32. jstoned (Posts: 36; Member since: 22 Dec 2011)
No you dont idiot. Verizon has the best phones. Droid RAZR, Nexus, HTC Rezound and so many more. I don't and have never seen any iconic phone other than the recent note and I phone on AtT AKA (Always Talking Terribly) . Plus Verizon doesn't have to copy other carriers brilliant ideas, they actually take the time to revolutionize there own. You guys have been copying verizon for years, you poor pathetic 2nd rate company.
10. gameday78 (Posts: 47; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)
The good thing, unlike Verizon you wont be forced to switch to it!
24. android_sucks (Posts: 111; Member since: 28 Jul 2011)
Then don't choose to share!!!! You must be an android user?!!!!
20. PAPINYC (banned) (Posts: 2315; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
That's why iAdded a second line before all this nonsense; now i'Ve got two separate lines with unlimited data and iPay the same as an AT&T subscriber with a single line. Ralphael de la Ghetto should do his math.
27. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
Verizon is NOT forcing anyone to switch to the new plans!!! How many times must it be posted on here and elsewhere that you do not have to change your plan???? I've sold plenty of phones to customers that did not switch to the Share Everything plans, so please, for the love of God, stop that tired, old, WRONG claim that people are forced to switch!!!
29. jstoned (Posts: 36; Member since: 22 Dec 2011)
Gameday78 you are such a liar. actually do your research before you post blasphemy... i mean seriously what kind of damn idiot are you. you stupid f*#king tool
3. CfullerTX (Posts: 19; Member since: 06 Aug 2012)
Horrible Idea...Every family has a data hog that will consume most of the plan. Leaves the rest to ration out 1-2 gigs.
11. gameday78 (Posts: 47; Member since: 17 Mar 2012)
Thats good, then stay with the current plans... No one is making anyone switch to them.
16. -box- (Posts: 3879; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)
Considering how well shared minute plans seem to work for people, shared data is the same concept.
Hypothetically, if "mom" uses just 100MB per month, "dad" uses 2GB, and "junior" uses 5, an 8GB plan would work (closest rounding up is 10) rather than one 300MB plan (which Verizon doesn't even offer... Lowest they HAD was $30 for 2GB) for $20, one 3GB plan for $30, and a 5GB plan for $50, so $100 just in monthly data. Plus another $100 or so for minutes and shared texting on the 700 Family plan, more on a higher minute plan.Wither way, costs are going to be about $200. The biggest advantages on coat come from higher consumption users, those that share more data, and were on a 2100, 3000, or Unlimited talk plans. The new shared plans are cheaper, especially for the Unlimited users
25. bigdawg23 (Posts: 391; Member since: 25 May 2011)
I have three smartphones on my plan. I don't consider 2GB a data hog. This month I did go to 3GB but that is because I switch to the Gnote while traveling for work. WiFI at the Hotel was horrible so I utilized LTE to get all my apps back on my Android device. Otherwise many months all my smartphones use around 2-2.5GB.
Since my company gets a discount on data, I could switch to Verizon and get a lot of data and save money per month.
4. Jeradiah3 (Posts: 1009; Member since: 11 Feb 2010)
I told my cousin about this plan because her son will have his first smartphone (Infuse 4G) and I know that hes not going to keep up with his data. She said that she'll like this plan and save her an avg of $40/month
BUT Im staying with my plan
15. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
I don't care who copied who, I hope the Verizon version fails miserably so we can keep our unlimited plans. Or at the very least make them come up with something better than this crap! At least AT&T is making this an option and not mandatory. VZW had better do something before all my contracts are up because if not ...
17. Myst3ryr00tsec (Posts: 6; Member since: 03 Aug 2012)
Only reason why Verizon got rid of the unlimited data is because no one hardly ever uses it. When people come into our store I look exactly how much data there using and its barely 500mb or 1Gb. When Verizons new Share everything plan came out it dropped my bill almost $100 a month. And not to mention Verizon is not forcing anyone to go on to anyplan its all the customers choosing. My coworker still has the old alltel plan and he gets new phones all the time. If your broke ass can't afford a phone then why even bother....
28. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
So true myst3ry. Vast majority of customers I see in my location dont use 2GB a month combined on 2 smartphones. These plans benefit the vast majority of smartphone users. I'm sorry Whateverman, it's probably not for you. I suspect you are not what would be considered the average user, and for you, the plan isn't a winner. I understand that and respect that. No one plan will work for 100% of the people bro.
41. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
See, that how myst3ry should have responded. + 1,000 to you androiddownsouth, and thank you for showing people that it's okay to disagree without being disrespectful to each other.
40. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
"If your broke ass can't afford a phone then why even bother...."
Who the f*ck are you talking to? We've never spoken before have we? Have I ever insulted you, no? Then watch your f*cking mouth when you talkin to grown folks. And trust, I'm not mad, you just need to learn to be respectful when you want to reply to someone's comment. And if you b*tch a$$ cant handle a paying customer saying they don't like a certain plan, maybe you should find another job!
Now that we have that out of the way... VZW didn't get rid of unlimited because people weren't using it. They got rid of it because there was no way to increase revenue from those customers. VZW lost out on $10 - 20 per month in overages every time I used 3 or 4GB per month on my unlimited plan. It's greed, plan and simple.
You really need to understand that this plan isn't for everyone. Not everyone is going to be willing to pay the same amount on money to get less service. Its not always about someone being broke, some people just see through the bullsh*t you and VZW is trying to shovel. You need to grow a thicker skin before you go back to work, because if you ever get me on a call and show the level of disrespect you just showed, it will be the worst call of your career.
43. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
It's not all about greed brother. I know of Verizon's largest data consumer on unlimited. I can't say where or who of course, but there is a customer that was using 1 terabyte of data a month!!!!! 1 month!!!!! I think the majority of the time it is users that abuse the heck out of it like that person that caused the unlimited to be gone more than greed. Also, look at it this way: It is a service. The more of the service or product you use, the more you pay. Take gas for your car, for instance. If you want to pay less, use less. If you use more, then you will pay more.
I understand your frustration man, I really do, but it's not all about greed my friend.
49. Myst3ryr00tsec (Posts: 6; Member since: 03 Aug 2012)
What I said is true, you can blow up and take it all wrong but when it comes down to Verizon Plans, I fully understand the concept of why verizon is doing it. I see customers almost every day come in and not even know what plan there on or even what phone they have. We as verizon employees are just doing our job in selling cell phones and making money. I go out of my way to help the customers as best as possible when it comes to price & plans. I can't help what Verizon is doing with there plans but getting rid of unlimited was smart. Its saving people including my self money. People doing the 10Gb and up either have no life, or need to get home internet service.
50. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Your assumption seems to be that everyone with a smartphone is using them to play Angry Birds or to stream Netfix or something. These devices are used for many other things such as attending online classes, running a business, and for some unfortunate few, to look for a new job. Maybethe economical thing for some of these people to do was to NOT have home internet when they could just pay an extra $30 on their cell phone bill. There could be a customer who has no computer, no access to a computer, but had a friend or relative give them a smartphone so that they could have some sort of access to the internet. And if this plan is supposed to save money for those who need it, then why isn't it a optional plan as opposed to mandatory for all new customers? And why do you have to switch plans when upgrading? Because means more money from each customer!
You don't know every customer's situation and to judge them based on their usage just because they don't want to pay extra money to what is already the most expensive provider in the US is just wrong. And you deserved that "blow up" because you assumed I was a "broke ass" when you have no idea of my financial status. And you know what the say when you make an assumption... you make an ass of you and sumption... LOL! I didn't buy my Razr on 11/11/11 when it was only $111. I bought mine later after the price went up. The money isn't the issue, its the greed of VZW. Every new plan, or fee they come out with in the last year is designed to do one thing and one thing only... line VZW's pockets!
53. Myst3ryr00tsec (Posts: 6; Member since: 03 Aug 2012)
Its not an assumption, its 100% true. And for the people who can't affored things like I JUST said should not have a verizon Contract. Hint why they made prepaid. If a client or user uses there Smartphone for school, or Buisness then they should be making enough money for internet. And for school its called free wifi in several millions of public areas.
55. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Oh, so companies are giving away free WiFi to people now. Wow, that's new! It doesn't have to make since to you and you dont k ow everyone's situation nor what other companies may or may not have service in their area. So your statement is NOT 100% true because it doesn't work for 100% or vzw customers. Not even for those who CAN afford it.
57. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Your deflecting. The ignorance lies within you. You have no way to prove your point with intelligence so in your desperation you insult people and you make sh*t up. That may work with some, but as you can see, it ain't working on me. Have a great day! :)
22. smallcolabear (Posts: 81; Member since: 18 Feb 2012)
If they dont shape up what are you going to do??? cancel your lines and go somewhere else. This may benefit you to get your unlimited back where carriers like sprint are offered. but if you, like I, live somewhere where those carriers have no reach or service my options are ATT and Verizon and I choose Verizon because even ATT does not have great service where I live. I as well have unlimited and there are months that I use enough that it matters and there are times that I don't. But I also have other lines that I upgrade and then esn change wala I keep my unlimited, then when those need a new device they just steal my upgrade all is happy with the world. Take a step back slow down and figure out other ways than bashing things because they change.
42. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Yes, I will go someplace else. Sprint works just fine where I live and so does T Mobile, and US Cellular, all of which have a phone that I wouldn't mind upgrading to. That whole "We work everywhere" crap starts to ware very thin when you keep seeing your perks being taken away. NE2, annual upgrades, the rising cost of everything from text messages to insurance. All that starts to add up and not every customer will sit back and take it. This plan, whether I go with a shared plan or buy a phone out right, raises my bill by $300-400 per year either with overages or the cost of upgrading. Would a $400 increase on a bill bother you at all? I can think of a whole list of other things I could do with $400 besides giving it to VZW just so I can keep using what I already use.
44. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
Keep in mind all those perks went away right about when we got the iPhone on Verizon. Coincidence? I highly doubt it.
51. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Oh, yes! The average iPhone fan will deny it, but everyone knows that every carrier blessed/cursed with the iPhone has suddenly become vampire-like with their new policies and fees. That's why I'm looking at T-Mobile and US Cellular as well. They may not be the best services, but they work where I need them to work. And If I don't switch services, I will be downgrading to a feature phone.
VZW specifically promised me that if I upgraded to a 4G device that and I quote, "Nothing would change for you." Once they got me on another contract, its like they said, -Oh and BTW...That is your last subsidized upgrade unless you want to fork over that unlimited data plan you were so desperate to save". So if its okay for VZW to flip me the bird, why is it such a bad thing when I flip it back to their greedy asses?
52. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
If one of the other services works for you wherever you travel, then that is your right to change to be sure. Verizon does have the largest network as well as the most reliable, and as with any product or service, to get the best, you do tend to pay more. Don't just take my word for it of course, the information is out there for those that wish to look. Maybe this isn't the best comparison, but should a BMW cost the same amount as a Kia? Not to say that Kia is a bad car, they have gotten much better, but BMW does make a better car, and for that you do pay more.
Freedom of choice is one of our greatest freedoms in this great country we live in, and one that far too many people take for granted, imo.
If you choose to go to another carrier, I hope you find what is right for you and makes you happy. That said, I don't think it is necessarily far to chalk it all up to greed bro. More towers and more reliable coverage all come at a cost in operations, and to keep said quality standards, a higher premium is charge, regardless of the product.
I'll end this with a question about a previous post I made about some of the abusers of the unlimited data: Don't you think that a customer that uses 1 terabyte of wireless 4G data a month should pay more than $30 a month? I certainly do.
58. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Real debating, with no insults... I'm loving it! Anyway...
No, that customer signed a contract that states he/she would be throttled if they go over 5GB. Since both parties agreed to that contract, there should not be a problem throttling that customer down to 1X speeds or less. But don't make the penalty for THAT customer's actions to be across the board anialation of unlimited plans. To anyone with an unlimited pla using between 3-5GB, the choices to either switch plans or pay more for a phone is punitive in nature. But if you have a guy using 1TB...heck yes that guy should pay more. But I use 3-4gb and my wife uses between .5-1.5GB per month. We don't come close to our 1400 minutes nor our 250 SMS plans. I have two other features phones and altogether I pay about $210. Before I upgraded I had a chance to go on the 4GB promo for 4G devices, but the rep told me my unlimited plan would be safe. Now they say if I want another phone subsidized, I have to forfeit that plan and either get 2GB per line at the same price or opted for a shared plan. Now if you were in my shoes, how would you feel and what would you do, honestly?
61. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
Well let's break it down:
Smartphones 2 x $40 = $80
Basic phones 2 x $30 = $60
Share plan w/ 8GB(safe) = $90
Grand Total = $230/month before taxes. If the $210 you say above is after taxes, then it does wind up being a decent increase, but not as much as I would have thought based on your comments. If the $210/month is before taxes, then honestly, I wouldn't like paying more, but I would for the better service. It is well known that Verizon does have better service nationwide than any other carrier.
That said, if one of the other providers can give you what you want and need at a lesser cost, then that is worth a good hard look. Me personally, I'd find the extra $20 to have the service I get from Verizon. I wouldn't be terribly happy about it, but I'd do it. Perhaps if you were one of my customers, I would be able to provide you with an easy, friendly in store experience that might make the sting a little more tolerable. It's up to you bro, it's your money, it's your choice. I think Verizon is the way to go, but if you get what you need elsewhere for cheaper, no one can fault you for that.
There is my honest reply.
64. johnriii (Posts: 230; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
I'm willing to pay a bit more with Verizon. I've been with Sprint and T-mobile, and neither have improved their service (dropped calls) or customer service. I would venture to say 8/10 times I call Verizon, I get decent customer service. notice I didnt say great, outstanding, or pleasant. that should tell you how much Sprint peeved me off, almost 12 years ago. A good friend of mine has the EVO LTE, and he drops at least two calls a day, IN KC, one of the headquarters for Sprint. what does THAT tell you?
67. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Yeah, my charges are usually $170 before taxes and $210 after taxes. So if I were to switch plans, the share everything plan would probably cost me around somewhere around $255 -270 after, because as the charges increase... so do the taxes.
But it was a pretty good try, you obviously know your stuff. And you seem to have the personality to be successful. Are you a store manager? If not, you should be!
69. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
I actually am a store manager of a large Verizon agent location. I appreciate the compliment.
I'm just honest with my customers and make sure I know what I'm talking about before I try to say something is truth. If I have an opinion, I will say it is just that. I am highly opinionated, but I also realize not everyone shares those opinions.
That, and I try to show respect to others, as long as I am shown respect in return. Do unto others and all that jazz, right?
65. smallcolabear (Posts: 81; Member since: 18 Feb 2012)
I can see your point completely and understand it I guess I don't understand how it can raise your bill that much unless you have a ten smart phones on the 20 gig plan which would be $550.00 without taxes VS an unlimited plan on the old plans which would cost 850.00 before tax. If you pay for a phone outright you are not forced to change your plan so you can keep the unlimited data. I also would find better uses for 400.00 than a cell phone bill but I have 11 lines and pay 400.00 every month now, by switching to the share everything I save 250.00 so I just have a different situation than you.
66. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Wow, 11 lines? For you, maybe that could save you a decent chunk of change, but here is my current situation...
1400 mins - $79.99
2 Androids - 60.00
2 250 SMS plans - 10.00
2 feature phones - 20.00 (My second smartphone is on the free add-a-line promo. So it isn't charged that $9.99 fee.)
So my charges are around $170 before taxes, but through the wonderful world of taxes and VZW math I usually pay around $210-215 every month. Now if my charges are currently at $170 BEFORE taxes, increasing my charges would increase my taxes as well right? So that would make my new bill somewhere around $255-270 depending on VZW's magic math.
But if I want to keep my current plan, I go from paying $100-300 for my upgrades (I only like high end) to paying $500 - 600 for the out right price. Either way, customers with unlimited plans are getting screwed.
Now I have a question for you smallcolabear... What kind of discount did they give you that makes 11 lines cost just $150, and how do I get it too?!?! I would stay if they could make it that economical for me too.
68. smallcolabear (Posts: 81; Member since: 18 Feb 2012)
With the the share everything on a 4 gig plan which would be 2g per smartphone you would bay 210 before taxes. It really depends on what you average out in gigs every month Im sorry I meant that by switching I could save 150.00 not 250.00 that was a typo that I did not catch. But I am not switching until I ahve to because I too do not want to lose my unlimited where I am the only smartphone on my plan it does not benefit me personally as if I had multiple smartphones on my plan. I work for Verizon so I can see how this benefits but in some other ways I see how it does not especially if you are on a single plan with a smartphone and unlimited that does not benefit the customer at all. But there are alot of time that they can work with you especially if it is makeing you pay more than you currently are now I know I had a phone not in use that I was paying 50.00 for (it was the only phone on the account of tablets so had to be on a single line plan)when I explained the situation they knocked it to 20.
35. getalife111 (Posts: 3; Member since: 26 Jul 2012)
you people have no life to sit here and actually argue over "stolen ideas". Just shut up and use your phone
47. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
And yet here you are, posting on this thread as well.......
36. bransablan (Posts: 23; Member since: 19 Jul 2012)
Regardless of who's copying who or who copied who, while AT&T plans are slightly higher at least unlike Verizon they don't force you out of your unlimited data but then again things may change...
45. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
Just watch, in time, they will do the same thing. The history and patterns are there.
60. johnriii (Posts: 230; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
I see them coming around to Verizon's way of thinking. again, just a gut feeling. more money for them in the long run.
38. jacky_luvsjrod (Posts: 53; Member since: 26 May 2010)
like i care about these data plans i have the 3GB plan on att i rarely go over 2 .
59. johnriii (Posts: 230; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
this is funny, the debate about WHY any of the carriers are basically ditching unlimited data. I had a very spirited one about two weeks ago on another thread, and I believe we agreed to disagree. what cracks me up is folks who work for VZW or Sprint or whatever perpetrating like they have all the answers. truth be told, you really don't know. I have stumped the average Verizon rep just for fun about their own product over the past 4-5 years, because it really doesn't matter how technically proficient they are. (i.e. specs on their phones...typically they don't know them). all they want is for you to sign a contract, and everything after that is gravy. I'm not saying they don't WANT to help a customer, but MOST have no flipping idea what they are talking about.
It would seem that Data hogs are the PRIMARY reason unlimited data is going away. I'm not saying people do it on purpose, but IMO, 6GB and up is a data hog. like someone posted, maybe that individual doesn't have access to a PC or the internet, or they use GPS for their job function (ie delivery person) personally, i use about 5GB a month, mostly on Netflix and youtube videos. I currently have unlimited data now, and YES, I MUST choose a tiered plan when it's time for me to upgrade, or buy a phone full price. to me, the average joe can't afford that, so yes, Verizon IS, in a way, forcing you to change to shared data. and yes Sprint customers, it's coming. I am pulling a "Nostradamus" here. just a gut feeling.
62. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)
lol good post man, and honest too. None of us at the store level can truly tell you why the changes are here. Only the decision makers way further up the food chain can tell you for sure. All we have are our opinions. Problem is, too many people confuse their opinions for fact, and that is really really stupid to do.