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Second trial on damages could lead Apple to net more than the original $1.05 billion it was awarded

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Second trial on damages could lead Apple to net more than the original $1.05 billion it was awarded
Last month, Judge Lucy Koh vacated $450 million of the $1.05 billion jury award that Apple had been awarded after the epic patent trial last year. Now, a new trial is coming. The damages that Judge Koh had tossed represented the amount awarded to Apple by the first jury for 14 Samsung devices that they ruled had infringed on Apple patents. Samsung has filed with the court requesting that the second trial also open up the question of whether these 14 devices infringed on Apple patents in the first place. The Korean manufacturer says in a filing with the court late on Friday that "Apple can seek even more damages on these products in the new trial." The filing by Samsung was in response to an earlier one made by Apple and seeks a partial final judgment on what has been decided so far, with the results stayed until a final ruling is made on Samsung's appeal of the case.

Also addressed by Samsung in the brief is Apple's request that Judge Koh reinstate $85 million to the current $598.9 that Apple has been awarded, claiming that "errors" had been made in calculating damages. According to Samsung, Apple's argument is "Procedurally improper and substantively incorrect". But the main ruling that must be made, is whether or not Samsung will get a whole new trial to determine if the 14 devices infringed on Apple's patents or whether the jury will just decide the damages again.

As usual when Samsung and Apple get together, the lawyers are the winners. If you're not a lawyer and don't play one on T.V., you might want to read Samsung's filing anyway, which you will find below.

source: FOSSPatents via AppleInsider

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posted on 31 Mar 2013, 02:45 1

1. Rayanx10 (Posts: 45; Member since: 30 Mar 2013)

say whatttt?

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 05:59 8

11. Andrea (banned) (Posts: 52; Member since: 07 Mar 2013)

I dont like patenttrolls

apple and nokia is one of the biggest.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 08:21

17. OptimusOne (Posts: 694; Member since: 22 May 2012)

Apple and Nokia *are* one of the biggest

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:16 16

23. bradley.block (Posts: 6; Member since: 01 Oct 2012)

Apple and Nokia *are* "two" of the biggest. If you are going to correct someone, make sure that YOUR grammar is correct as well.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 11:54 2

33. oister85 (Posts: 493; Member since: 27 Apr 2012)

Omg this people need to go to school, I can't take it anymore, so much improper grammar. Haha I don't care I know many people in here are bilingual counting me.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 15:57

38. quakan (Posts: 1373; Member since: 02 Mar 2011)

*these lol

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 16:46 1

41. stealthd (unregistered)

A patent troll is a company that just buys patents and sues for profit, and doesn't even make anything. That's not Apple or Nokia.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:21 15

2. Floorkill22 (Posts: 20; Member since: 24 Mar 2013)

OMFG Apple give it up and admit defeat. Your products are so inferior so what the competition offers.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:24 4

24. Mxyzptlk (Posts: 12999; Member since: 21 Apr 2012)

That's what you think. That's not what's reality.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:36 7

25. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)

Market share is the reality :)

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 18:30

45. Ninetysix (Posts: 2381; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)

Profit is reality.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 11:06 1

30. tedkord (Posts: 11685; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

And in your case, reality is short for reality distortion field.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 17:07

43. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)

We re talking bout greed here.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 13:27 4

35. sid07desai (Posts: 290; Member since: 03 May 2012)

My hatred for Apple now surpasses my love for Samsung.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 16:24

39. stealthd (unregistered)

Not sure you're aware, they won the trial.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:28 14

3. Floorkill22 (Posts: 20; Member since: 24 Mar 2013)

I should rephrase my previous comment by saying that the iPhone is the biggest marketing gimmick of the 21st century.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:54 1

6. deadstroke (Posts: 113; Member since: 22 Jan 2013)

and that is correct and time will tell

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:59 5

8. vincelongman (Posts: 4431; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)

I wouldnt call it a gimmick, still a very very good phone, one of the best depending on your preferences, but defiantly over-hyped and overrated.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 16:25

40. stealthd (unregistered)

Right, a gimmick that the entire industry followed. Makes sense.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:52 3

4. MartianMe (unregistered)


posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:52 6

5. Hunt3rj2 (Posts: 396; Member since: 11 Nov 2011)

I never knew fanboys could ever be so butthurt over the actions of two faceless corporations.

Get over it people, these are phones.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 06:27 6

12. lyndon420 (Posts: 4383; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)

It's not just about phones. There are simple shapes and common tech at stake here. Rectangles everywhere will revolt...it will upset the balanced order. I mean seriously...apple wants Sammy to build a triangle shaped device...complete with cute stickers.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 07:45 6

15. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4198; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)

I'm not "butthurt" over anything, and I don't give 2 sh*ts how it affects these companies bottom lines. What I do care about is these companies manipulating the industry through the courts instead of on the salesfloor, and most importantly to me, the possibility that these trials may decide what's available to me to purchase and use. It seriously angers me when these companies try to use the legal system to eliminate or stifle competition rather than letting the natural selection of the salesfloor decide the outcome. Both have a good product, but no one phone is right for everyone.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 08:28 2

18. darkkjedii (Posts: 21289; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

Out of all the posts that've been made so far yours makes the most sense. I could care less about market share, market cap, or market whatever. It's about we the consumer... I don't know what goes on behind closed doors with these companies as I don't work for them in any capacity, but I hope judge Koh acts in the best interest of the customer. Wether the victor be apple or Sammy...

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:39 4

26. tedkord (Posts: 11685; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

No one here should want any one company or platform to have an overwhelming market share. That leads to higher prices and lower innovation.

Apple had huge market share in smartphones, and they started spoon feeding small advances with minimal changes. That opened the door for Samsung. Then Samsung became the number one manufacturer, and look at the GS4. Same thing.

What we should all root for is iOS, Android and Windows Phone to all split the market fairly evenly. Further, we should want Samsung, Apple, Nokia, HTC, LG, etc... to all have a good chunk of the market. That's the only way we, as consumers, will get our hands on better tech at better prices.

I root against Apple based not on it's market share, but on its shady business practices. Lawsuits, patents based on others tech with zero work on it (the flexible AMOLED phone they patented, for instance.)

And I'm really worried about the future now that the US has gone to first to file rather than first to invent. Apple unchecked scares me.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 11:40 1

31. darkkjedii (Posts: 21289; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

Very good points Ted...as usual.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 13:56 1

36. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

Apple is always doing this for money, not caring about what's good for consumers, yet so many people don't realise and fall into there trap! They create an inferior product, charge outrageously high prices, and convince people that its really better! On the other hand Google will develop a much better product and make it free! But many people still just assume Apple's better! How so selfish and greedy,,,,,!

posted on 02 Apr 2013, 04:32 1

49. Hunt3rj2 (Posts: 396; Member since: 11 Nov 2011)

I don't even care who wins, but for the record, Apple might as well be an angel compared to Samsung.

Samsung's top CEO has been convicted for bribery and fraud multiple times, and the company itself is a state-sponsored monopoly.

Let's not try and pretend that Samsung is somehow a moral high ground. Both are pretty scummy.

posted on 06 Apr 2013, 06:32

50. jroc74 (Posts: 6005; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

I agree. In a way...I kinda dont like Android having huge market share. I dont think the iPhone ever had that much of a lead over #2 when they were #1.

But....its never one size fits all, so I dont want the iPhone being the market leader. Would the iPhone have a bigger screen if it wasnt for the success of Android? Would Apple have changed the notification center if it wasnt for Android? Who knows....but it shows they all learn from each other. Apple just needs to stop acting like a spoiled baby.

I liked what I saw from WebOS....and its a shame its no longer around. Ppl forget that Palm was probably considered safe before 2008. Palm was #1 in 2005...in 2008 they were 3rd.

Where are they now?

posted on 01 Apr 2013, 19:47

48. opensourceftw (banned) (Posts: 148; Member since: 01 Jan 2013)

COULDN'T care less. One would think a sad litle grammar Nazi like yourself would know that.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 10:31 4

28. weinerslav (Posts: 126; Member since: 31 Jul 2012)

This line of comments should be mandatory read for everyone that comes to phonearena, no matter what your preference is, there is room for everyone in the market, that is what freedom is about. I can only see a unbalanced market hurting more the consumer than anything else

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 11:41 1

32. darkkjedii (Posts: 21289; Member since: 05 Feb 2011)

100% agreed

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 19:26

46. VZWuser76 (Posts: 4198; Member since: 04 Mar 2010)

Exactly. I also like Ted's comment as well. It seems like once one of these companies gets to the top, they get lazy. Happened with Moto after the first Droid X, happened with HTC around the time of the Sensation, and now Samsung is doing the same with the S4. Apple's I believe was when they started putting an "s" on their models, which I think stood for "Sh*t, we forgot to put that in the last model." The companies to watch for are the ones who are trailing, they're hungry and willing to go all out to add to their customer base.

posted on 01 Apr 2013, 11:17

47. androiddownsouth (Posts: 598; Member since: 02 May 2012)

Holy crap! A thread with logical and well thought out comments. This last series of comments here are how the discussions should go, but far too often wind up in fanboy flaming.

Kudos guys. Heated competition between manufacturers means better products at better prices for us consumers. If any one manufacturer dominates the market, we lose in the end.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:13 2

22. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)

Enough with the dumb butt hurt jokes. And it doesnt make sense.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 16:47

42. stealthd (unregistered)

You'll understand when you're older.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 17:08

44. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)

Im way older than you.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 03:58 1

7. lyndon420 (Posts: 4383; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)

Apple needs this win to pay its employees. Don't really care who wins at this point. So long as I have a good Android phone in my hand, and if I can get a pair of Google Glasses on my head...I win as a consumer.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 04:09

10. Timmehor (Posts: 599; Member since: 09 Mar 2013)

We all win as consumers!

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:45 1

27. tedkord (Posts: 11685; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

We're all losing as consumers now. The costs of the lawsuits is being passed on to us. Small upstarts are being discouraged from bringing innovation because they will get sued to oblivion. Even bigger corporations have to tiptoe around ridiculous, broad patents that are often just am older patent with the words, "on a phone" tacked on to the end.

Imagine the phones we would have in our hands if not for this douchebaggery.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 04:08

9. Timmehor (Posts: 599; Member since: 09 Mar 2013)

And someone in Apple and Samsung has to read all that! I feel sorry for them.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 06:54 3

13. thecorrescode (Posts: 35; Member since: 28 Mar 2013)

And what do you expect from Florian Mueller, the paid blogger from Microsoft and Oracle. Off course, he will downplay Google and Android in general.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 07:38 1

14. jroc74 (Posts: 6005; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


Why is no one bringing this up? I know they were part of the trial.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 08:06 1

16. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

"What about the patents that got invalidated..."

That is in part why Sammy is asking for a new trial.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 11:00 4

29. Aeires (unregistered)

Apple can seek all they want in the form of higher payments, what happens in the new trial will be all that matters, not what Apple wants. Not only has Apple's patents been invalidated, by the time this trial starts, these phones won't even be sold anymore so the jury is likely to look at Apple as just being greedy.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:04 5

19. nexusalltheway (Posts: 69; Member since: 28 Nov 2012)

With this kinda battle, apple is further ruining their image in public eyes, not to mention how un-innovative products they have comparing to industry.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:06 2

20. poping (unregistered)

Obviously, apple has ran out of decent means to earn money.

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 09:12 1

21. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)

Can we please stop talkn bout this b.s. nonsense? Or stop posting this every other week? No one cares bout apple. All they do is btch cry complain with their greedy big a$$ wallets. Yet they ban on older models thats not even being sold anymore

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 12:51 3

34. Bob327 (Posts: 14; Member since: 17 Mar 2013)

I know I will NOT be upgrading my current smartphone with any Apple Iphones... when any company tried to patent rounded edges on phones just seems to me to be a little too aggressive in bringing a law suit ...

I'm loosing a lot of respect for Apple just took me longer then it did with micro-spend..

Bob G

posted on 31 Mar 2013, 14:59 1

37. roscuthiii (Posts: 2217; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)

I wouldn't take a wiz on Florian Mueller if he were on fire. Maybe wait until the flames fizzle out, then relieve myself, but not until then.

All this is is similar to when a prosecution says they could seek some exorbitant maximum for something as a scare tactic. There's a world of difference between what could possibly happen and what will realistically happen.

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