Google Now's intelligent push shows Siri the future
1. Jay_F (Posts: 236; Member since: 29 Nov 2011)
Uh oh, they are attempting to become self-aware. Can't wait to see how it operates.
29. Otterbox (banned) (Posts: 71; Member since: 27 Jun 2012)
Google forcing more controversial changes.
30. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
You are safe - as Michael comments, Apple won't release something until they can make it Appley. Siri will remain more gimmicky than truly useful for probably around 2 more years, when iOS 7 is released.
34. PAPINYC (banned) (Posts: 2315; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)
Good point Doug! (But, more like iOS 8.1.0.002)
I must be missing something in the article, Michael states, "Siri is marketed as a personal assistant because of hooks into your calendar and such, but more than anything else, Siri is a voice-powered search platform;" I thought, based on the commercials, Siri was someone to talk to in desparate iSolation.
40. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)
how are they forcing anyone? its an opt in service
42. EclipseGSX (Posts: 1703; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
You can CHOOSE not to use it therefore not FORCING anything. Silly otter using your tummy as a table
2. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Great article, Michael. As you stated, the challenge for Google will be to get the universe of Android handsets migrated to JB. That will involve a delay that may give Apple time to catch up to Google in the search knowledge archive. However, Maps is still not fully baked. And, and, and.
Net-net, life in technology land is never boring....
7. protozeloz (Posts: 5387; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)
well google developed a tool so compnies can speed up updates, will see how that works out
17. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Yes, I personally have my fingers crossed waiting for JB on my RAZR. If the rumors are true and JB is going to be released for the G-Nexus in approx. 10-ish days, it would seem to argue for a similar rapid release on the RAZR. The stars certainly would seem to be in alignment - Moto is owned by Google, the RAZR and G-Nexus are distributed on the same carrier (VZW) in the U.S. I am cautiously hopeful....
19. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
The HSPA+ GNex will get JB in 10-ish days, not the Verizon Nexus. Verizon will delay that for sure
23. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Arrrgh :-( Although I didn't expect a JB upgrade for my RAZR in 10 days. 3 months would be a fabulous outcome. Although realistically, I have higher expectations that a RAZR HD would come with JB out-of-the-box before my RAZR gets a JB upgrade.
32. readingthissh1t (Posts: 303; Member since: 20 Jul 2011)
rooted running now, i feel sorry for other verizon peeps
3. Synack (Posts: 672; Member since: 05 Jul 2011)
Not on JB? Buy a Nexus. Problem solved...... forever.
18. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Unless you are half-way through a 2 year contract....
4. Scott_H (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Oct 2011)
Great read Michael. This also has a direct bearing on the current patent giving Samsung so much trouble, the '604 universal search patent. Why? Because intelligent push is based entirely on information contained on an external server.
The '604 patent seems like an obvious invention, but even if it's upheld it's basically guarding the past rather than the way forward.
5. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
And that's exactly why I hate patent law. By default, it protects the past rather than fostering innovation, which of course was the original intent.
16. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Out of curiosity Michael, how would you encourage innovation in the absence of patents? One argument for patents is that the ability to exercise exclusive control over an invention promotes investment in research and development, which tends to result in patentable inventions. That certainly seems to be a motivating factor in whether a pharmaceutical company drops $5+ billion into developing a new drug.
20. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
Admittedly, I should have specified software patents. Patent law does work relatively well in some areas, like pharmaceuticals where patents push development, but have time limits to lead to cheaper generics eventually.
My issue is that patents were designed to force inventors to publish their work, so everyone could see how it was done and build on it, not to protect investment and creations. Given that spirit, in software the easiest path away from patents would be with open source. Show your work, have functional software, not just descriptions of theoretical systems, and above all else, keep in mind that this s**t isn't being "invented", it's being built on previous works, like art.
I mean, let's just use some damn common sense every once in a while. Does it really benefit anyone to consider the idea of making data like phone numbers or addresses linkable as a patentable idea? Does it really spur innovation to say that only one company can make a digital latch (slide to unlock)? Let's be more discerning with these things.
At the very least, let's crowd-source patent reviews to help out the obviously overworked USPTO.
24. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
You have some totally valid points about software patents that are at best questionable as regards innovation (I would argue that a scrolling bounce at the top/bottom of a window is not patentable, but that is only my opinion). A number of thought-leaders in the patent prosecution space have advocated for crowd-sourcing reviews. Crowd-sourcing reviews can be a way to help examiners who may or may not understand the subject matter being disclosed in a particular application. Unfortunately, the PTO doesn't seem to be one of the subscribers to the crowd-sourcing concept.
25. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
Here is one of the only areas I wish we would see some government intervention. Have a Congressional hearing on the whole tech patent matter. Have Google, Apple, MS, and the rest all come in, sit down, and hash out "common" features that can not be sued over.. such as universal search, contacts, grids,slide to unlock, rectangles, and more That way the base pieces of a smartphone are off limits and the more OS specific pieces such as how Siri works or GooNow works can stay protected.
26. firelightx (Posts: 71; Member since: 13 Oct 2011)
such as universal search, contacts, grids,slide to unlock, rectangles, and more
First off, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Some government intervention is necessary. However... a pow-wow between the heavy hitters will go absolutely nowhere. Why? Simply put... every single patented idea you just mentioned? Owned by Apple.
Apple stands nothing to gain and everything to lose by sitting down in such a meeting. They are given only two choices: concede defeat and stop suing everyone, or fight tooth and nail against it and continue suing. Which do you think they'll choose?
No, what needs to happen is what XDA is pushing for. There need to be a united force against Apple, comprised of every major android manufacturer, perhaps pooled together by Google's efforts, and they need to bring the unholy legal smackdown upon Apple. If Apple can get the Nexus banned in the U.S. for slide to unlock, surely one of the dozen some odd Android manufacturers has a patent that can bury the iPhone for a little while.
And unlike Samsung, who has a hundred different models across a hundred different carriers... the iPhone is just 1 phone. And America is it's best selling market. Get it banned here... and watch Apple's stock just plummet like a rock.
41. MartyK (Posts: 730; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
I Agree 100% with you FIRE!, bring the heat!
44. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
while that would be a hillarious and completely needed ironic twist of fate, if that was going to happen, i think it would have happened by now since both HTC and Samsung have run into shipment issues due to Apples BS.
Also, that does nothing to solve the problem which is how patents are awarded in the first place for tech. Having them "hash it out" would be the nice step before full on government intervention declaring everything FRAND and overhauling the patent system so generic crap and paper napkin drawings can no longer be qualified for patents.
Of course Apple has the most to lose. They are by far the biggest patent troll in the industry. They are doing it legally, though, so the problem isnt with them (they are just abusive assholes), the problem is with the system.
35. roscuthiii (Posts: 1931; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)
Michael Heller for Secretary of the USPTO! 2012!
(Or Judge Posner)
8. protozeloz (Posts: 5387; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)
i have a feeling will see '604 disabled by the end of the battle or better...
6. nnaatthhaannx2 (Posts: 820; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
I always love reading with MIchael writes.
If you are reading this, I have a (few) question(s): do you actually know or contact other PA writers/editors/whatever you guys call yourselves?
Do you guys just work at home, or do you have a PA office?
9. protozeloz (Posts: 5387; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)
you can I have jJV on twitter and michael on G+
14. nnaatthhaannx2 (Posts: 820; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
Sorry... I don't quite understand your comment.
21. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
I think he misunderstood your question. He thought you were asking how to get to know/contact us (which would be via Twitter for John V or G+ for me).
22. protozeloz (Posts: 5387; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)
yeah, misread and though he wanted to contact some of the teams writers
10. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
No central office for us, we're all spread out. Ray and some are in Europe, John and I are on the east coast USA, etc, but we writers do keep in contact while working. It's just site policy to use the royal "we" as the POV voice..
Thanks for the comment!
12. nnaatthhaannx2 (Posts: 820; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
Yep, I was always wondering about that "we"
I really enjoy the site. You guys are balanced, unlike CNET or Gizmodo, they are Apple loving thieves! Phandroid and others are the opposite!
Just keep on increasing the quality of the site. Oh, and any news on a mobile friendly page? It's really hard to browse with all the ads everywhere, the site takes FOREVER to load! Mobile app? It is a phone site btw!
13. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
we're testing a mobile site m.phonearena.com
it should work, but it may not automatically redirect if you go to the regular URL.
15. nnaatthhaannx2 (Posts: 820; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
Just checked it out. Looks pretty nice!
Roll it out soon, I like it! Has all the functionality that I need, unlike other sites that take away in the mobile version! Keep up the good work guys + charlene and others.
36. kingpet13 (Posts: 139; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)
It works great! I tried on my Og iPad and my galaxy nexus. It had almost no lag and loaded 3x as fast as the normal site. The normal site ism't to bad on the nexus but on my iPad it would consistently crash while i was trying to read the comments and have some serious lag. Great article by the way. I always enjoy reading your articles because you find an oppinion that I hadn't thought of that already makes sense but you actually try to support everything you say. That is something a lot of writers will not do.
27. Aeires (unregistered)
Apple didn't make Siri, they bought it. They might have made some of the embellishments, but it was a purchased product that was nearly completed when Apple threw their money at it.
On the other hand, Google has done something from the ground up and it's spectacular the way it works. Having said that, if Apple continues on it's path, unobstructed with their unified search patent, a huge piece of impressive technology will forever be stifled. No matter what phone OS you use, or how many childish arguments you fall for, when any technology on this scale is stifled, the entire tech community suffers the loss. We as consumers should demand more and settle for nothing less than a freedom to innovate and create in a less hostile patent environment. One can hope the monopoly on creativity will come to an end and development teams can continue to empower us with their creations and discoveries.
46. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
Apple bought Siri and made it into a huge success, and an integral part of the iPhone.
Google hired Mike Cohen, the guy behind Nuance (which powers Siri), to build Voice Search and what has become Google Now.
One bought a product (and likely talent), and one bought talent, so what's the difference?
47. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
i think the point was that google had more direct under the hood development and can actually call it a "Google Product", where Apple bought a complete app that was already in use and rebranded it as an Apple product.
Whats the difference? Geek pride? The obvious difference is how much more integrated Goog's product is than Apples out of the gate. If its better accuracy is part of its system ties or just more advanced programming in general (though I assume its a combo of both) is unknown.
48. Aeires (unregistered)
So you're saying the ability to build something from the ground up to meet your needs is essentially the same thing as buying something that's almost completed and ready to go out of the package?
That's a stretch to make, can't connect those dots. Purchasing a product isn't even remotely close to having to build it and devote enough R&D to make it work.
53. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
I'm just saying that Google didn't build it from the ground up.Sure, Apple bought a product that was closer to finished, but there was still a lot of work to do. Google bought multiple products and hired multiple people to make Google Now.
Too much to lay out here. I'll write a column for it. It's pretty interesting, I think.
28. wendygarett (unregistered)
in ios7 apple will turn siri into siri now :)
37. bayusuputra (Posts: 961; Member since: 12 Feb 2012)
Actually, I did try the ported version of Google Now on my ICS AOKP Desire S, and to my surprise, it learned the bus service and bus stop that i frequent the most. I did actually use a third party app to find the service timing of that particular bus from that particular stop, but did not expect to get a card showing that on the first try!
Btw, there are quite a few bus stops near my place and there are more than 10 services available here.. but Google Now only shows me that particular service with three other services that are similar in route.
but due to instability issue, unfortunately i had to uninstall it. I really hope it can be officially ported to other devices. Really impressed!
38. theBankRobber (Posts: 653; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)
Hold on hold on hold on ...... did the poster say Apple MADE SIRI? Apple didn't make Siri, a small few developers made Siri and had the app on the app store well before its purchase from Apple. Don't be a d**k and give credit to Apple for Siri, give credit to the hard working developers who actually made Siri and designed how it works. Apple just threw money at them so they can remove it from the app store and call it there own.
45. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2693; Member since: 26 May 2011)
True, Siri existed before Apple bought it, but that app was nothing compared to what Apple has turned it into. Siri as it is now has been made by Apple. Google bought Picasa, should we also give Picasa credit for what Google Photos has become?
It's one thing to give credit to the originator, but another to refuse to give credit to the company that transformed a product and made it a massive success. Apple didn't originally make Siri, but it certainly has made Siri into what it is today.
61. lyndon420 (Posts: 2891; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
Curious....but is siri still referring to WP as the best phone? Or did apple apply the fix for this yet?
51. thebest (Posts: 231; Member since: 08 Jul 2012)
android was not made by google, youtube was not made by google, chrome was not made by google.........no one cares who started it because if u think in that way, c lang and unix were made by dennis ritchie, edison was the first person to produce light with current, internet was invented by lee on a next computer made by steve jobs,etc etc etc.............
39. blade (Posts: 32; Member since: 28 May 2012)
michael here in phone arena i think the intelligent because he is a andro love no that is not the case he treats every platform independently
others(ray s) are just dumb d**k apple lovers
i mean my suing all the other maunfacturers is not the way to be top in the market
now i hate steve jobs s**t
how the outside world is still unkown of this fact that there royal company is afraid of outside world
43. bayusuputra (Posts: 961; Member since: 12 Feb 2012)
i think the dumb d**k is you, dude..
learn to write properly like these contributors before slamming them with vulgarities and broken english..
apple lover or android lover is their own personal preference.. just like you.. but you have no f**king rights to come here, to their site, and calling them dumb d**k..
50. thebest (Posts: 231; Member since: 08 Jul 2012)
you are not supposed to lash out at fanboys, they are worse than animals, they don't need your reply, they need a good doctor, don't waste your time on them
49. thebest (Posts: 231; Member since: 08 Jul 2012)
people never talked about speech recognition before iphone 4s, now everyone is dying for speech recognition, i have the 4s and i have fun with siri, it can speak to me,tell me jokes, it expresses disappointment when it scold it,sets alarms,gives me suggestions etc etc......i think google should have added these features as well,that would have made it really popular because it comes on a $199 tablet,which is amazing
55. LionStone (Posts: 550; Member since: 10 Dec 2010)
Hehe...The reason nobody ever talked about voice recognition before the ip4s is because that phone never had any to talk about! Michael laid it all out and here's a quote that sums it up nicely to get you up to speed:
"Google Now, which is the product we have been anticipating for a couple of years now, and one that we knew would finally come soon back when Google announced it would unify its privacy policies. Many people jumped on the chance to stack up Google Now with the closest competition: Apple's personal assistant, Siri."
57. thebest (Posts: 231; Member since: 08 Jul 2012)
no, actually, i am talking about the non apple users who became interested in voice recognition after the iphone 4s............anyways, apple is for people who want better stability and best apps in the world, u can customize it more than any other phone in the world, you can also get the android ui............but if u love android, u should only get a nexus device because it will be the first device to get all the updates despite being sold for really cheap prices and stock android ui is always better than those useless modified uis.......personally, i think an ipad, a nokia lumia(with wp apollo) and macbook pro(retina display) dual booted with windows makes the best combination in the world.......
56. joey_sfb (Posts: 4261; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
Did anyone check whether Apple has a patented that stated that its own the rights to all electronic devices that can has voice of any origin, human or non-human like, transmit through all forms of existing and future available forms of media.
58. thebest (Posts: 231; Member since: 08 Jul 2012)
calm down, lets talk about phones instead of patents...........lolzzzz, if there are no patents and lawsuits then all those lawyers will starve to death