Here we go again: Microsoft versus Motorola FRAND patent trial starts

Here we go again: Microsoft versus Motorola FRAND patent trial starts
Microsoft and Motorola are in court, facing each other in a FRAND patent suit. Microsoft said that it would pay to license Motorola's H.264 and Wi-Fi patents. The problem is that Motorola is demanding 2.25% of the retail price for each device that uses the patents. These include Windows 7 devices, Windows Phone 7 powered devices and the Xbox 360. Because the patents involved are standards-essential, the terms must be worked out using fair, reasonable, and nondiscriminatory (FRAND) negotiations.

Microsoft says that Motorola is not playing the game fairly. While the Redmond based firm has already agreed to pay a fair value for the patents, Motorola argues that the 2.25% it wants Microsoft to pay is the same percentage it asks for universally, and as such, represents fair value. Opening statements started on Tuesday and the case is expected to run to Thanksgiving.

There is a big difference between what each company feels the patents are worth. Motorola wants $4 billion a year for the patents in its portfolio while Microsoft values them at $1.25 million or less. Additionally, Microsoft claims that Google already offered them a worldwide license for the standard rate agreement when the essential patent rules were being formulated. If the court finds that Google did make this offer to Microsoft, Motorola will receive a lot less money than it was hoping to get.

To make sure that this trial doesn't turn into the media circus that the Apple-Samsung patent trial turned into, both sides requested that the courtroom be cleared when financial matters are being discussed, a request denied by the judge. While the judge did say that the public won't be allowed to see evidence related to patent negotiations or financial data, he did note that any testimony will be made in open court meaning that "if a witness discloses pertinent terms, rates or payments, such information will necessarily be made public."

source: Electronista




1. darkskoliro

Posts: 1092; Member since: May 07, 2012

$4 billion? o_O What le fack

9. rsxl5

Posts: 65; Member since: Sep 05, 2012

The question here could be: - if 2.25% is 4 billion what is a margin M$/Apple and other companies make on their devices :) So, 4 billion doesn't look like a pie for me but just a smaller piece of a pie :)

12. Aeires unregistered

2.25% on a $500 phone is $11.25 if my math is right. Sounds close to what MS is taking from Android OEMs. It would depend on what the patents are for and how many are involved, but on the surface it doesn't seem too unreasonable when put into perspective.

18. -box-

Posts: 3991; Member since: Jan 04, 2012

I think moto might have a problem with its case. It's arguing that it should receive royalties on each product (XBox, desktop/laptop PC, phone), even if the software was installed by a non-Microsoft OEM. That said, if Microsoft argues that it just makes the software and didn't willfully infringe on a patent on said device because the OEM opted to install it. Thus an Xbox would be potentially infringing, but an Acer laptop wouldn't. At least, that's how I understand it. Not only that, then, but Microsoft doesn't set the price of the end product, the OEMs do, so it should not be held accountable for their prices. Moto would have to take every infringing OEM to court to recoup that cost, if granted. Pursuing the operating software instead would be a more accurate calculation of any Microsoft infringement.

2. anywherehome

Posts: 971; Member since: Dec 13, 2011

Get them, Google!!! Microsoft is already stealing money, you can see that here: bit [dot] ly/RYzOPP so Microsoft deserves to pay a lot!

3. schinnak

Posts: 116; Member since: Oct 26, 2011

This is more reasonable than Apple's feud with Samsung & other companies. Both MS and Google are atleast trying to settle down the issue in a matured manner and by avoiding all the circus show.

4. gallitoking

Posts: 4721; Member since: May 17, 2011

wow Motorola is being greedy instead of innovating... the RAZR is so last year.

5. anywherehome

Posts: 971; Member since: Dec 13, 2011

so if you punch me and I want to punch you too as a payback am I "greedy" too? so can I punch you without a payback from you? :)

6. bluexperia

Posts: 41; Member since: Sep 29, 2012

both comment were right but it seems like new product of microsoft see,s to be a little bit pricey compared to to the other device in the field they are competing with(surface etc). just an opinion.

19. -box-

Posts: 3991; Member since: Jan 04, 2012

I would disagree. The XBox 360 with Kinect is about the same price as a PS3, the Surface is about the same price as an ATIV RT or VivoTab. I think the only RT tablet I've seen cheaper than the Surface is Acer's. Also, their OS is $30-40 online or $60-70 for the disc, whereas apple charges $20-40 for each update to its OS (technically a service pack, which Microsoft distributes for free) and doesn't even offer its OS as a standalone product for a single end-user, you have to buy the computer to get it, and with apple's markups being several hundred dollars with equivalent or same hardware as a PC, we could then presume that the OS is part of that cost. Makes Microsoft a real bargain, in that light.

7. MeoCao unregistered

Nah, this is just the answer to patent trolling from MS. Google's stance is clear: No surrendering to the trolls.

8. tedkord

Posts: 17298; Member since: Jun 17, 2009

That still puts it 3 years ahead of the iPhone...

10. jacko1977

Posts: 428; Member since: Feb 11, 2012

the is**t is so 2007

13. Aeires unregistered

Droid Razr, release date 11 Nov 2011. Wow, nailed it.

11. Jonathan41

Posts: 532; Member since: Mar 22, 2012

This trend needs to die out fast.

14. shuaibhere

Posts: 1986; Member since: Jul 07, 2012

G00gle....kill MS.. hey it is showing that g00gl(00=oo) is banned word...... it doesnt even allow me to even post G00gle..... what the heck is happening????

20. -box-

Posts: 3991; Member since: Jan 04, 2012

No problem posting Google.

15. Sniggly

Posts: 7305; Member since: Dec 05, 2009

Well, at least we don't have Mxy in here fallaciously claiming that FRAND means Motorola can't ask for any royalty at all. 1.25 million sounds ludicrously low. Wifi is a huge part of Windows device functionality. It'll be interesting to see how this one turns out.

17. snowgator

Posts: 3621; Member since: Jan 19, 2011

Somewhere in the dead set middle? One of those situations where I can't believe that neither side could compromise. Microsoft is admitting it should pay, Motorola owns the patent, and they STILL have to go to court? Send both sets of executives into a room without lawyers, and 20 minutes later they would have a good settlement. Heck, cross license the patents with the ones MS gets cash from Android devices and call it a day.

21. Fallout09

Posts: 421; Member since: Oct 17, 2011

I think that might be part of the problem.... MS probably will not cross license patents they own seeing that it is the only boat keeping that a float.

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