Verizon: “Windows Phone needs LTE support to succeed on our network”
The reason, according to Chief Marketing Officer Marni Walden, is the lack of LTE-enabled WP7 handsets. Verizon’s LTE network, which just turned one this week, is far ahead of other carriers’ attempts and has been the driving force in Verizon’s aggressive marketing campaigns. According to Walden, Verizon wants to see a timeline for bringing LTE handsets to market before making the decision to “continue to support” the platform.
LTE may not be long in coming to Windows Phone. Nokia is rumored to be working on an LTE-enabled Lumia 800 handset. Microsoft has apparently got the LTE-enabled version of Mango to OEMs already, and some industry insiders expect to see an LTE WP7 handset announced as soon as CES in January.
Of course Verizon may also be waiting to see if Windows Phone will gain more traction with U.S. consumers. After all, they had no problem promoting the iPhone 4S even though it doesn’t have an LTE radio. So while Verizon is trying to align upcoming products with their network strategy, they also bend to consumer demand.
So Microsoft thinks the carriers need to be more supportive of WP7, and at least Verizon seems to be waiting for more demand before bothering to support WP7. It’s a real chicken and egg conundrum for WP7 enthusiasts on Big Red’s network.
source: CNET via The Verge
1. The Zune Lune (Posts: 41; Member since: 09 Apr 2008)
What a ridiculous remark from VZ. Their 4G phones have had horrible problems, plus, why don't they put the same requirement on Apple? My brother and I were just discussing how this could be the very issue that moves us from VZ to Sprint.
8. iamcc (Posts: 1319; Member since: 07 Oct 2011)
Horrible problems? Care to elaborate? I've had a Thunderbolt since release and the only horrible problem i've had is that I dropped the phone last week and broke the screen.
Oh yeah, and 25mbps download speeds are horrible too...
12. jabrecer (Posts: 25; Member since: 26 Jul 2011)
so, you're giving two reason why VZ is not horrible. Thunderbolt and speed.
I have something to tell you.
1) thunderbolt is the most horrible LTE phone in the market (please, find out why extended battery on this phone is so popular and also why the extended battery came out almost immediately after releasing the thunderbolt)
2) speed is not exclusive of VZ and never prevented VZ of having network problems.
21. iamcc (Posts: 1319; Member since: 07 Oct 2011)
I didn't say Verizon wasn't horrible. Also, for being the most horrible LTE phone on the market it works great for me.
Also I get 12-15 hrs of battery life so don't know about that either...
As far as speed not being exclusive, could you name another carrier that offers speeds higher than 25mbps?
40. Lucas777 (Posts: 2115; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)
12-15 hours is horrible... i wud never buy a phone that doesnt even last frm when i wake up to when i go to bed...
25. MikeG77 (Posts: 348; Member since: 24 Nov 2008)
I hate to burst your bubble jabrecer but a lot of phones have been launched with an extended battery as an available option. Hmm let me look at my battery life on my TB.....oh snap ive been using the phone for over 11 hrs and ive still got 50% battery left. So yeh please get your facts straight.
PS ive been running on 4G all day : )
30. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5426; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
you've probably had the phone on and with you for 11 hours but i seriously doubt you've been using it. xD
27. The Zune Lune (Posts: 41; Member since: 09 Apr 2008)
I was an Original Droid owner - great experience. I am also a thunderbolt owner - horrible experience. Yeah, I could root, but I am tired of rooting and want a solid off the shelf phone performance. Here are my issues with the Tbolt :
1. I go through 2 extneded batteries a day. I go through 1 when I go to 3G mode. i get a solid 4G signal all day, so, no that isn't the issues.
2. Reboots - have plagued my phone since Gingerbread...and oh, how long did it take us to get Gingerbread? Way too long.
3. It takes FOREVER to boot the stupid phone. Seriously, It is almost a 5 minute deal when I swap batteries.
4. Animation and video are both much smoother on Windowsphones - and, the GUI is just a lot nicer. I like the faster camera, i like the better voice integration. Once they get turn by turn navigation worked out and a few good handsets from Nokia and the next generation from Samsung, WP7 will be a killer.
5. VZ needs to offer more than one model. How can you offer one model with 2 year old technology and expect it to compete?
34. tuminatr (Posts: 579; Member since: 23 Feb 2009)
zune lune, there is something wrong with your phone. I had the Thunderbolt and had a great experience. I did go on ebay and buy a 1800Mah slim battery ( I use about 5-6gb per month ) my phone made it through the day with that slim battery. My phone took about 30-45 seconds to boot I bet you f&^^ed it up trying to root it
47. Phullofphil (Posts: 792; Member since: 10 Feb 2009)
Well there something wrong with your phone indeed buts it's not your phone. It sounds like you are a victim of to much freedom. That's what happens on android when you can do more you are at risk of crippling your phone if you have to much stuff running. Because if your using that much battery you are either on your phone strait time all the time ore you have too much stuff running in the backround. You can't do that on windows phone or apple to easily
48. kemjus (Posts: 32; Member since: 05 Oct 2011)
I agree with you, I have had my Thunderbolt since launch day. It is not the best phone but it is reliable. Given I do have juiced defender which turns off 4g when my screen is off which helps battery huge! I charge it only when I go too bed. I also agree with Zune Lune that 4g is a battery eater... although thats a trade off when you buy speed. Super cars dont get 40mpg either...
20. ZEUS.the.thunder.god (unregistered)
after their "nexus show" i can say vzw suc*s
26. quakan (Posts: 990; Member since: 02 Mar 2011)
Apple has one of the highest demanded handsets on the market that's why the stipulation isn't the same.
42. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)
unfortunately you & your brother are a small minority on Verizon that care to see WP7 become a bigger voice. i don't think Verizon's stance on WP7 is off the mark. the platform isn't polished enough yet, it almost seems to be unfinished. though its a huge step above WinMo 6.5 & prior...not really that impressive at this point. i would say once it matures it may be a powerhouse of an OS. the HTC Trophy doesn't move at all, not b/c people don't know about it but bc Verizon customers are flat out uninterested. Android & iPhone seem to take priority over that (& Blackberry for that matter). i think its a smart move for Verizon not to invest in a platform that isn't really moving much in their camp. if you are willing to move to Sprint over something like that...i'd have to say i don't get it.
52. DarkWalkker (Posts: 3; Member since: 07 Dec 2011)
As a network engineer I like all technology, and from what I have seen WP7 is at least as stable and more polished that Android was even a year ago...
Count me as one of the people, which I would bet are more than you would think, that would love to try a WP7, but I won't sacrifice on the technology... I am limping along with my current phone which I badly need to upgrade because I want to see what is announced in Jan... If there were a good WP with top notch tech right now on Verizon or Sprint I would try it now.
Don't get me wrong, I like Android, but some of what WP is doing, I really like, and would love to give it a try... I will only know how much I like it until I have one for a few weeks. And I really wish the Us carries would give it a shot already...
2. iHateCrapple (Posts: 734; Member since: 12 Feb 2010)
What issue? 4G issues? Or lack of Windows Phone?
9. jabrecer (Posts: 25; Member since: 26 Jul 2011)
verizon's stupidity. that's the issue.
1) no samsung galaxy SII
2) promoting exclusive galaxy nexus when it is not like that
3) NOW: no windows phone because of LTE (what about iPhone?)
whoever read this comment is welcome to make this list bigger.
what really happens here is this: verizon wants NO RIVAL for iphone and droid phones.
22. Paden (Posts: 262; Member since: 07 Jul 2011)
Why would it matter at all? Data prices are the same for any smart phone on VZWs network. They would get their money either way...?
It's gotta be demand. Nobody is screaming to get a Windows Phone these days.
23. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5426; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
I GOTTA GET ME A WINDOWS PHONE!!! OX
38. holysnikey (Posts: 1; Member since: 06 Dec 2011)
The iPhone is allowed to sell without LTE because when they got it, it was the best selling smartphone at the time and was proven to sell. I believe Windows Mobile has like 6% of the market share vs the iPhone has 15% or so. That is the difference sir.
28. The Zune Lune (Posts: 41; Member since: 09 Apr 2008)
We all know these carriers help create demand, so VZ is doing the choosing here.
43. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)
true carriers help create the demand, but for them to help there first has to be a demand which there is none for WP7 on Verizon...
3. 7thspaceman (Posts: 718; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)
from what I read from an internet source one of the Tango specif actions on windows phone 7 has LTE support and the option to make lower quality cheaper windows phone 7 devices. I doubt that anyone will sell low specs Windows phones in the USA but the
OEM's need the LTE that is in Tango
4. Penny (Posts: 903; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
While I agree that LTE support would have a significant impact on the success of Windows Phones, Verizon has no right to say what Windows Phones need to do to be successful when they only offer a single, old model of the damn thing. No s*** you're not going to see success with it if all you have to offer is a single, average phone that gets no attention at the stores or online.
5. itsthenew (Posts: 13; Member since: 22 Oct 2010)
WP7 needs some distinctive features aside from live tiles and ...well xbox live? Hardware wise and software wise there really isn't a reason to get a wp7 device aside from promises down the road in 2013. Why should I get something that MAY be awesome years from now rather than something that is great now?
7. Penny (Posts: 903; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
Hardware-wise, yea there aren't really a lot of WP7 phones to write home about. Software-wise, I would argue that WP7 is awesome NOW, and just has more potential as time goes on. Live Tiles and XBox live may be the touted features that you hear about most, but for an actual user, I would tell you that the best part about having a WP7 phone is that so many of the features I use on a daily basis are so well integrated that I haven't even properly explored the app market. It is just ready to go functionality and never fails on me.
13. itsthenew (Posts: 13; Member since: 22 Oct 2010)
And the thing is I could really argue the same thing with my phone but it has more apps, more horsepower, LTE, etc. It's not a compelling product for a lot of people because of these reasons.
16. Penny (Posts: 903; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
True, the lack of these things does make it a less compelling product for a lot of people, and rightfully so. All I can say is that in my opinion, for those whose needs are met by WP7 phones, WP7 probably does a better job at meeting those needs than its competitors.
19. tigermcm (Posts: 561; Member since: 02 Sep 2009)
Being that i have never left windows i agree with the integration is so great i myself have not really looked into apps. I changed my fiance from an evo to an arrive she likes how one note lists update instantly on each others phones. she did have a lil fuss about not so many apps but realized that most the apps were never used on her evo and it gets cluttered. IMO i feel most ppl frown on wp7 becuase they want apps apps apps sheesh apps are annoying going into 50million diferent apps to do one thing
6. LewsTherin006 (Posts: 140; Member since: 18 Nov 2011)
this is what they really mean " Windows phones need LTE so that we have free up space for the iphone. Also it doesnt sell a lot so it needs something to make it look attractive." VZ can careless about windows phones, they have a strong droid line and the iPhone, so the many will come in even though it doesnt have a windows phone.
10. remixfa (Posts: 13882; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
its no surprise.
people may not remember, but VZW waited a year or so before deciding to try Android. the Droid line was a great success, but they were very timid at first about selling droids at all. They only sell proven products. They refused to give apple the time of day with its ridiculous demands, until it proved to be a consistent high seller. They will take their time on ANY new OS. It doesnt make it to VZW unless its successful somewhere else first. Part of that "give and take" about being on the carrier. VZW does not take chances.. at all. But the payback is that they generally sell very mature and high end products on the network with by far the best coverage.
14. Penny (Posts: 903; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
Great point. I shouldn't be too disappointed in Verizon for this business decision, although I do wish they would take more chances. To a certain degree, I think they did commit more to and take a bigger gamble on Android than they are on WP7, but that is understandable given that they needed something to compete against the rocketing iPhone at the time.
17. roldefol (Posts: 2855; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
And when they did start selling Android phones, they desperately needed something new to spice up a stale lineup of the same WM6.x and BB devices available elsewhere. And as you said, it was with the maturity of Eclair and a respectable, growing Android Market. Verizon needed a hit and an iPhone alternative. What would WP7 add, now that Verizon is flush with iPhones and premium Androids? I'm all for healthy competition, but WP7 hasn't given Verizon much reason to invest.
And I'm still of the opinion that the Windows name will never be "cool" enough to be a big player in the phone world.
29. greathero1 (Posts: 399; Member since: 13 Jun 2008)
But Android was not proven or a big success when they added the Droid. It was the addition of that phone and the $100 million campaign that built up so much excitement and demand. I mean, probably 60% of people looking for an Android phone call all Android phones Droids. Android's success began with Verizon at the helm. Maybe they can lend Microsoft a hand in the marketing department b/c they suck. Hell, the Droid RAZR commercial has me literally salivating for it right now.
53. remixfa (Posts: 13882; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
im with you. i think MS's biggest mistake on WP7 is CALLING it windows. it leaves such a horrible taste in your mouth most people are unwilling to try it... which is sad because its an awesome system.
In america, thats totally true. Droid is the common name for the phone. VZW didnt want anything to do with android at first, it saw no value in it. I worked for VZW when android launched on Tmobile. VZW was very tightly partnered with RIM in hopes they could come up with an iphone alternative (aka the storm). It wasnt until the storm failed that they started to look at android as a serious alternative. By that time, there was already quite a few androids sold.. i think close to a million.. which was impressive for an unproven OS on the smallest carrier.
VZW got what they wanted. Carrier exclusive (for a time) new version of Android, Moto paid for a lot of that advertising campaign, and it sold like hot cakes.
VZW is a very cautiously but well run empire. You could say they are the "Apple" of the carrier world. premium pricing, careful planning, no debt, and high amounts of free cash.
11. terabyteRouser (Posts: 358; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Only a fool would lock themselves into a 2 year contract with Verizon without purchasing a 4G LTE device. Locked in for 2 years with slow data? After those 2 years every carrier would have LTE.
15. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5426; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
releasing a single phone like the Trophy on the network doesn't reaistically show what the demand is for the WP platform. the Trophy was on my radar for a minute JUST for being WP but the trade offs between it and the Droid 3 at the time didn't make the Trophy a real compelling choice. launch a real HIGH-end WP and i'm sure momentum will gain for it. at this point one of the best ways to help grow WP as a platform is to have a signifigant, compelling device on the market and the addition of LTE in such a device will definitely help. it'd be a big step towards getting the King to become a WP user.
18. roldefol (Posts: 2855; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I think MS needs to seriously look at what WP should be in the market. Is it a super-user-friendly midrange device for Zune/XBox Live fans? Or is it a successor to the more serious WM6 platform that offered Office apps on business-centric models like the Touch Pro2? With Blackberry on its way out, there's an opening for a serious WP platform, but they need to market it as having more than just a different look and feel from iOS and Android.
36. snowgator (Posts: 3015; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
My biggest hope, King? Someone at Microsoft hires a ninja to steal the Droid 4 designs. Than they slap WP-8 on it. And the Gator starts to giggle.... :D
45. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5426; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
my god that would be so much win... o.o
another thing is WP needs better Landscape support.
50. snowgator (Posts: 3015; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Totally agree. My wife uses the Titan, I use the Focus S, and that is in both cons of my user reviews. That truly annoys me.
54. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5426; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
how do you like your Focus S? i feel like if i had to decide on a WP today it would either be the Focus S or the Dell Venue Pro.
24. lubba (Posts: 1309; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
They carry the iphone. Does it have LTE? It's a mock to WP. Stay exclusive with ATT and boost relation with tmo.
31. Jyakotu (Posts: 812; Member since: 12 Dec 2008)
When it comes to 3G, Verizon might have the largest, but it's incredibly slow. Windows Phones might like 4G LTE for now, but for what they currently offer, it's an amazing smartphone platform. Live Tiles and even the sheer speed and fluidity of the OS is enough of a reason to get a WP. The fact that WPs don't need dual cores to run fast is amazing. Also, the lack of fragmentation in WP7 is also a compelling reason to try your hand in the OS. Specs wise, Microsoft sets a MINIMUM, but OEMS could make more powerful WPs if they wanted to.
32. denney (Posts: 98; Member since: 20 Oct 2011)
I really hope MS doesn't give in to this pressure and rush production of an unpolished OS build.
33. Uzzelien (Posts: 131; Member since: 22 Feb 2011)
WP8 I'm sure will have a couple LTE phones. Really when they took on THEIR ONLY WP7 phone an LTE phone was retarted to get. This is getting less so now then back then. The funny part of this though to me is what others have pointed out that they sell tons of iPhones 4 and yet they don't have LTE on them.
35. snowgator (Posts: 3015; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
I am genuinely pleased that most posters are giving WP the benefit of the doubt on this.
Microsoft is determined to do things right with WP. They NEED Verizon, make no mistake about this. They have to be on the largest carrier on the U.S. to be a viable option. But like several comments before me pointed out, if they push out LTE devices out before they are comfortable than they are likely to put out a substandard product. They can't afford that. If the iPhone has antenna, battery, or performance issues, they have years of good products and sales behind them to recover. Android is even in better position: a flop from them, and there are a dozen more great options to go to. Top level devices that are really deserving of praise. But WP cannot afford bad efforts. They are desperately trying to be noticed. And the fact that all their devices are good, and a few are great, is what they are building on. I hope LTE support, dual core operations, and hi resolution screens are coming in 2012. But I really hope they are done right, not quickly.
41. Uzzelien (Posts: 131; Member since: 22 Feb 2011)
I really wish US providers would pick up more of them myself and not just the major makers. I would like to see some Asus and some Acer phones thrown into the mix there. So far AT&T ( yuck ) is the biggest supporter of it and by what I mean by that is they have more then one WP7 phone.
37. BuckeyeCadet86 (Posts: 68; Member since: 26 Oct 2011)
The iPhone is the single most popular phone with a built in consumer base, so it doesn't need LTE to compete. Windows Phone 7 has no built in consumer base to speak of so to compete with iPhone and Android, that have such huge market bases, windows phone 7 can't afford not to have LTE, iPhone can. Verizon sees no point in investing anything in a platform it doesn't believe will be able to compete. The minute that WP7 becomes competitive on a real hardware basis Verizon will carry it. Also, Verizon really doesn't want to sell any 3G phones, but the options were release the iPhone on 3G or watch the exodus of customers pissed off that they didn't get the new iPhone.
39. androidphan (Posts: 32; Member since: 06 Nov 2011)
Some of you really make me laugh. First of all, would YOU buy a WP7? Most likely not. Why would vzw put money into more wp7? The trophy is fine if you want wp7. There is not a massive demand for wp7, especially for 3G. Vzw sells two smartphones, the iPhone and 4g androids. Buying any other smartphone is a waste of money. As for "what about iPhone?" comments, that's obvious. Don't ask dumb questions. If people were lining up for wp7 they would carry them. Don't make this into something it's not, this is a smart business decision. Good for you marni walden for telling the truth. Facts.
51. Penny (Posts: 903; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
Would I buy a WP7? Yes, and I did.
An HTC Trophy in fact. And you are right, the Trophy is actually fine for WP7. The fact that Microsoft set minimum hardware requirements means that even this mediocre hardware provides me with a great experience. But on the flip side, how would you feel if all Verizon offered when it comes to Android were a mediocre device? Sure, it would be "fine," but there would be much better devices out there that they would be choosing not to carry. This would be perfectly fine because it is their business decision to do so, but they would not then have much right to say "well, the phone isn't really selling so we're going to offer a crappy one." It's pretty circular logic.
And, let's face it - a "fine" WP7 phone does a better job than a "fine" Android phone. Hell, it does well enough (in actual functionality, not sales) to match up to much higher-spec competitors. So no, even at this stage, the only options are not simply Android or iPhone. Experience and an open mind would be beneficial before making sweeping generalizations such as that.
44. jtech (Posts: 100; Member since: 14 Jul 2011)
These lagdroid fanboys make me sick. They talk about android like apple fanboys talk about steve jobs. They only talk down on wp7 because they are insecure about the type of phone they bought and try to make themselves feel bette. I'm sure if they stopped making so many damn gsm wp7 phones verizon would pick them up for sure and not only them but sprint and prepaid carriers.
46. KingKurogiii (Posts: 5426; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
most of my friends are actually lured in by WP7 but when they come to me for advice about it i just tell them that i like it a lot too but it's just not there yet with the hardware and support yet and that for this term they should go Android.
if people see the iPhone 5 won't have LTE while Verizon and AT&T start talking about LTE Advanced then i'm sure Apple would lose quite a bit of popularity. the underlying reason people want a smartphone is greater functionality on the go if Apple gets surpassed by their competitors for a second year with something so vital now to a modern smartphone's functionality they will probably lose popularity, people are already quite disappointed with the lack of any real 4G on the iPhone 4S, geeks and common consumers alike. Microsoft MUST give Verizon the incentive to continue selling and selling w/ 4G LTE in order for WP to survive in the future.
49. SemperFiV12 (Posts: 476; Member since: 09 Nov 2010)
I am stuck with Verizon and I want a Windows Phone... The Trophy has been a great phone for me, waiting for a new LTE WP.
I don't blame VZW for putting the pressure on Windows to beef up their devices, however I do blame them for playing heavy favorites.
Release ONE less Android (seems they have a new model every week) and put out a decent WP.