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Steve Jobs is right, but Apple made a poor design decision

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Steve Jobs is right, but Apple made a poor design decision
Apple CEO Steve Jobs is absolutely correct. All smartphones do have a weak spot that when covered could lead to a drop in signal strength and cause calls to drop. But it has been pointed out that the exec also has made a serious mistake. After he showed videos of the BlackBerry Bold 9700,  HTC Droid Eris and Samsung Omnia losing signal strength after being held with the infamous "death-grip". Since the press conference, YouTube has been inundated with videos showing other handsets losing signal bars when held in the "death-grip". The problem is, none of those videos make any sense because not every handset has the antenna placed in the same location as the iPhone 4. So while a touch in the lower left corner does it for the Apple unit, the EVO 4G has its antenna placed on the top of the phone. And here, Ladies and Gentlemen, is where Mr. Jobs makes a faulty point. With the EVO 4G, you can hold it in the usual manner and not lose bars. Jobs didn't lie, because the handset-like any other-will lose bars if its weak area is touched, but most manufacturers have designed their handset so that the weakness is not exposed by merely holding the phone in the usual way. So to reiterate, all smartphones will lose bars if gripped tightly. But not all smartphones have their antenna located in the same spot as the iPhone 4 which means that most will allow you to hold them in the customary manner as tight as you want without a problem. What this means is that for Apple to eliminate the problem for good, future units will either need to have a coating around the offending gap in antennas, or the iPhone 4 will need to be redesigned to move the antennas so that the gap appears on a spot that is less likely to be squeezed. The rubber bumpers are a temporary solution which is why Consumer Reports remains unmoved by Apple's "generosity". Bottom line-HTC made a good design decision and Apple didn't. Simple enough.

Apple iPhone 4 Specifications | Review
HTC EVO 4G Specifications | Review

source: AndroidGuys

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posted on 20 Oct 2010, 01:47

1. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Yes. I think we all knew this. But let me tell you - Steve believes that this is a design CHOICE, and not a design MISTAKE. He has said that he loves the new antennae design - and that it does improve reception. The price? You need to be careful where and how you hold it. Or use a bumper. This was his choice. Yes, he didn't anticipate that a 1 millimeter-thin spot could cause so many problems and so much media coverage - this was obviously his mistake - but the Antennae design is his choice. A lot of people will say that this is a bad choice. A lot will also say that this is a good one. How shall we know? Lets look at the sales of this in several months - and then we will know the answer.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 06:45

2. vzwtechbill (Posts: 175; Member since: 16 Mar 2009)


I don't see this as having a huge impact on sales of the Iphone. Go to youtube and search for the iphone vs evo video, that's the general mentality of consumers. I dare say, despite all the hype, your average Joe doesn't spend enough time researching products to learn about or realize the issues in the design until affected by them. And those in the know probably bought an Android phone anyway :P

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 07:04

3. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Ah yes of course, all the iPhone users are iSheep, and all the smart people use Android. We heard that before.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 07:10

4. gridlock (Posts: 31; Member since: 10 Jun 2010)


@ilia - dude, stop saying antennae, i like your arguments, but when it's re: electronics, the plural is antennas, antennae is when you talk about insects, look it up. Now, that Antennagate is a bug in the Apple, is a totally different story :-))) They'll fix it, move on, people...

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 07:18

5. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Well - I stand corrected. Antenna.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 14:01

28. badfishie (Posts: 12; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)


I love that video it is so TRUE about iPhone buyers

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:36

38. E.N. (Posts: 2362; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)


I think it's so funny that people think they are smart(er) because they have Android. Half of the people on this site are idiots, and that's android and iPhone users/fanboys included.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 17:50

47. tedkord (Posts: 5264; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Sales figures have nothing to do with either quality of product or whether or not the antenna is a design flaw. It is. Steve Jobs was obfuscating when he said all phones suffer from the same issue. All phones can and do lose signal if the antenna's sensitive area is blocked by the hand - they lose a few db. The two iphone antennae are jumpered together by the users skin/sweat/oils, causing a dramatice 20-24db drop. This was not duplicated in any other phone tested by anand or CR. This issue is unique among current smartphones. Just because the phone sells, doesn't mean Steve was correct. The Backstreet Boys sold millions of albums - 'nuff said. Many (not all) consumers purchase based on style over substance. I have to do the car shopping in my family, because my wife would buy a car based solely on the color and design. She wouldn't care to look into reliability, economy, warranty. It's pretty - take my money. The iPhone is very pretty. It's also low maintenance. It also happens to do many things very well. It also has in it's history had several issues, which Apple fanboys vehemently defend, and Apple itself lies about. This antenna issue is just the latest case. It's a shame that so many are willing to let Apple get away with whatever they choose.

posted on 19 Jul 2010, 10:12

60. messiah (Posts: 433; Member since: 19 Feb 2010)


it is not about being smarter by owning a particular product, it is about being informed and making better purchasing choices. And, incidentally, Android users are more intelligent. :)

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 08:29

7. testman22 (Posts: 337; Member since: 03 Nov 2009)


I really thought that the press conference was going to be an opportunity for apple to take the higher road in this situation. They did the right thing with the bumpers, but they really should have owned up and taken the heat for their mistakes. Instead they went to pointing fingers which is a business tactic borrowed from kindergarden.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 08:32

8. Templer16 (Posts: 20; Member since: 09 Apr 2009)


I think phonearena has this agruement down pretty good, it was a design flaw putting the antnna bridge in the lower left hand corner. But I really dont think this is real the story nor what all the media hype has truely been about. It has way more to do with Jobs than the i4. Here is a man that made the wrong anntenna design choice flat out he was wrong, no way to argue it (even though I have to admit when I saw it I was impressed thought it was great) So the real story is how Job refuses to A: Honest and B: Responsible is amazing and for that this story wont be stopping anytime soon. Now this isnt the first or the last company to act this way but its STEVE JOBS and APPLE! Their brand was helped built upon these kind of ideals and images. All the jokes about Jobs having a god complex are starting to look more and more true when you have a man who cannot admit when hes wrong and just decides to point out everyone elses flaws instead of fix his own

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 08:41

9. BlackberryUser (Posts: 609; Member since: 26 Jun 2009)


This is probably the BEST PA article I've ever read.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 08:48

10. CHEFJEFF (Posts: 143; Member since: 22 Sep 2009)


He may be right about cell phones losing signal if held a certain way, but the iPhone4 will drop calls if held in a NORMAL way! What other cell phone drops a call when you hold it? He just doesn't get it! His mighty new iPhone is not so mighty after all, and instead of pointing fingers at other phones, why won't you admit there is a problem with your stupid shiny new iPhone and fix it, rather than just offering customers a bumper.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 09:11

12. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Well I do have to ask you - how do you think he can fix it? Recall all the phones? Out of the question as it sells so hysterically. Redesign a new model with a different antenna? It would take too long, and by then the next gen iPhone will arrive anyway. Magically seal that X-spot on everyone's phones using little gnomes and fairies? What would you have done in his place? Other than admitting that there has been a serious mistake which was made - which doesn't do anything but hurt sales and stock values, and partly satisfy the hurt feelings of those who feel so much passion towards this issue..

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 10:20

14. CHEFJEFF (Posts: 143; Member since: 22 Sep 2009)


YES! Do a recall fanboy, instead of selling a defective product. Apple sets the bar high, their supposed to be better, not sub par. The brand is tainted now, and the consumer has seen Apple's idea of a solution, and most are not happy. But I guess the fanboys and iSheep will always be loyal and defend their glorious iPhone.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 11:26

16. ilia1986 (unregistered)


As I said - out of the question. If Steve were to recall the iPhone 4 now - His board of directors would probably remove him from his position - claiming temporary insanity. You don't remove a product which has sold 3 million units within 22 days from the shelves - unless that product kills people upon exposure. And I would like to once again say that I am no fanboy - I just think from the business perspective of things. I suggest that if you are to see the entire picture - you do the same. So - from the consumer point of view - this new antenna design is probably a bad decision on his part, because a lot of people complain, and this causes problems to left-handed people. From a business point of view - It sells. So it doesn't matter what is actually going on with the product. As for me - I am not a consumer yet, so I have no reason to see this from the consumer's point of view. I, however, study economics and management, and because of this I am inclined to see this from Apple's perspective - from the business point of view.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 14:23

30. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


illia, you dont know much about business do you? While yes, recalling the iphone4 would cost over a billion dollars in lost profit by estimates, not recalling it can lead to even more bad PR, which can cost them a lot more in the long run from lost sales of this and next generation iphones as people will be more willing to make the leap to the competition.. Android, Windows 7, Blackberry 6, and even WebOS are all going to make new customers off this issue. He had a chance to really shine and prove to all of us "apple haters" that he really is good enough for his god complex, and issue a recall and an appology... or this is what i would have done in his shoes... "hey, we messed up, we are going to go fix the problem at the factory and put some shielding on the antenna. Its a 1 cent fix. We'll give you bumpers for now, and as soon as the new iphone4s are rolling off the assembly line, everyone can have a free warranty exchange to the new fixed iphone4. Were really sorry about the issue and we will fix it for you". Look, no recall, fixed phone, temp solution to keep customers happy, lots of positive PR, and probably a reenergized customer base from handling it so well... but that didnt happen. instead you get a finger pointing match, a denial of a real problem, lack of a permanent solution, and a temporarily free bumper.... and the negative press continues on. Word of mouth can be a powerful thing.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 14:38

33. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Yes but you are welcomed to read my commend on this very issue on the next page - seeing as I don't want to just double-post stuff in this thread. =)

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 17:22

46. Templer16 (Posts: 20; Member since: 09 Apr 2009)


ilia your logic has sound business merits to it. On paper doing a recall doesnt make much business sense, but it is the right thing to do. To be honest its that same "In the name of Capitalism" BS that has our economy so completely screwed to begin with. Apple is just like another AIG or Goldman that takes money from clients by issuing false promises and show no remorse for their actions. I mean look at Jobs in his speech, his product is essesiantly broken and hes smug about it cause "WHO CARES I SOLD 3 MILLION OF EM!" Its sad that integrity just had another company step on its back for profits. Oh BTW remixfa is right look at Toyota, had one small outside instance which was handled with denial and look at their sales now....

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 19:48

49. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)


Well the fact is that we are not in his place, Steve Jobs is in his own place and this is his problem. Somethin needs to be done about the issue and providing bumpers seems like a cheap way out but i do understand that one of the rules of business is to avoid admitting failure while fixing the issue in the meantime. Kinda interestin how various Apple users are excusing this situation. If this were Google, i think Applets would be all over this with no sympathy.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 22:09

54. hornetmx (Posts: 71; Member since: 12 Mar 2010)


+1 That's probably your best posting ever. I still think you and HOVA come up with some sorry ass excuses to defend apple, but anyone who isnt a fanboy would agree with the above statement. If people dont like it, then they shouldnt keep buying it. I do not like apple, but I'm glad they are an american company doing well. I wouldnt entertain the iphone because of AT&T, period. It still puzzles me how Jobs can choose a design that is going to bring you negative publicity, at best, if you dont want to call it a design flaw. I guess they are starting to rush a little bit to try and keep up with Android. Apple better be careful....american consumers are forgiving, but you dont want to push you luck. Ask sprint/nextel what happens if you become to cocky and careless.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 09:11

11. Sniggly (Posts: 7182; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


I think the sane people who have commented on this article have expressed my sentiments already: Jobs doesn't get that the mistake was the placement of the weak spot. It's like when Crown Vics had a design flaw that caused a bolt from the back bumper to fly into the gas tank and blow them up if they were rear ended. Could Ford just say "well, other companies also have gas tanks that can explode if something hits them the right way."? No. Jobs deliberately distorted the issue with his claim that "well, OTHER phones do it too!"

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 18:46

48. tedkord (Posts: 5264; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


Jobs outright lied. Other phones do NOT have the same issue. If it were the same issue, a bumper would not solve it. It's the jupmering of the two antennas by the user's skin that causes a 20-s4dbm drop in signal. A normal smartphone, with it's signal blocked by the hand loses less than 10dbm.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 09:17

13. PHONE_GEEK (Posts: 52; Member since: 01 Feb 2010)


The only thing that apple has going for them is their products sexiness.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 11:13

15. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


Guys, I've got my own theory about this, it's based on common sense and some facts. Please if you're not willing to think just SKIP THIS POST. Having said this, I'll proceed. To me, it makes much more sense that this is not a design thing, it's a production problem. Foxconn didn't assemble the phone as they were supposed to. I'd say that it was because of the huge pressure and the hurry. It's IMPOSSIBLE that it was a design thing, it's a problem that you can't ignore, and after one year of testing it's NOT possible that they didn't note it. Remember the yellow spots? They disappeared within some days, but they were the clear evidence of the hurry in the production... And how about the wrong placed volume buttons? It makes sense that they step the coating or changed the material that they were supposed to use. Also, note that the newer iPhones are working properly and their design remain the same, just that these units are coated. Haven't you hear of the propel who got their phones replaced? Well, today USA received a new load but these phones have been manufactured as they should have been from the very beginning. This explains many things... Also the limit of the bumpers giveaway. If they are gonna replace the units without coating the coat... I don know it, nobody knows. Ok so if you want to reply to argue anything please feel free to do so. If you want to say something like "u dumb ass fuck you, me android better you more worse" or "Steve is the devil, I'm telling you!" please refer to gsmarena.com

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 11:32

17. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Well, I cannot say with certainty that this is indeed a production problem - and that is merely because of the fact that I don't know all the important technical details when it comes to in-depth analysis of this antenna issue. If the problem is caused by that gap which separates the 2 antennas - than this is clearly not a production issue - as Steve has demonstrated the gap himself during WWDC commenting that "this is not apple". If, however, the problem is caused by some internal lack of coating - than of course it is apparent that you are right. One can also attribute the yellow spots to that reason as well. Which is it then? Time will tell.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 11:44

18. iHateCrapple (Posts: 734; Member since: 12 Feb 2010)


Your theory makes sense. But why wouldn't they just come out and say it? "Our bad; our cheap, outsourced labor in China made a mistake." People are up in arms right now because it seems to be a bunch of excuses and a half assed fix...

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 12:44

21. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)


NOVAinc, this theory of yours doesn't hold water. You can not blame the people who make the phone for this issue because Jobs himself already said its because of where the antenna is located. That has nothing to do with production and everything to do with engineering. Production workers have no say so on where to place anything in your device. And as much as it would make sense to do so, testing a device in a lab or on the production floor doesn't consist of placing a phone in both hands and placing a call. The operator puts the unit into a machine, the machine run about 100 or so test for correct voltage, frequencies and connectivity. If all the circuits are lit, it green-lights the device and sends it out for packaging. There is no possible way that the production workers could have foreseen this happening. This was a design choice/problem that Apple made, you cant blame the production workers for that.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 12:54

22. roscuthiii (Posts: 1873; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)


That is a plausible theroy... but if true means that there are defects in the iP4 from production, not just some possibly poor design choices. If there are production defects then yes, Apple would be on the hook for more than just a free bumper. It would be a word that sounds similar to, "free fall"...

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 13:07

23. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


@Ihatecrapple: I typed a long reply but my phone ran out of memory and the browser crashed. So I'm gonna resume it like this - I have been involved in some production stuff, and even if I never had to make XX million of units of anything I can say that right now, with issues and everything, apple clearly depends much more of foxconn than what foxconn depends of apple. Basically, a fight would stop the production process and it would be a huge damage to apple. @whateverman: As I said, I base my theory on common sense, some personal experience, and it makes much more sense to me but that's just IMHO. as I said, it seems much more reasonable a production issue than a design one... You have seen all the cameras and the time they spent to test the phone, they would have to be very dumb not to note this issue... And I don't think a company who got to sell 1.7 million phones in three days is dumb, and you may think that those are iSheeps if you wish... But it doesn't look like a dumb company could get to have millions of people to follow them blindly, right? ;)

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 13:29

25. roscuthiii (Posts: 1873; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)


But as Whateverman points out... S.J. has stated it was a design choice. This part of the reply is for all of the Apple, Steve Jobs, iOS device supporters: He went on to state that it's OK because all other phones do it; and some phones he pointed out are years old and EOL'd. "But they do it too!" is something my teenage daughter would say. Not very becoming of an multi-billion dollar company's CEO. This is a self-centered statement. And as this is America he is by all means allowed to be as self-centered as he wants, but this is also the same America where PR can be more powerful than facts and history. This story receives the attention it gets from the media because America is a capitalist society. The consumer and consumerism is what drives the country. Even the news has become a consumer product. They have to get views to stay afloat. As some have pointed out, the iPhone 4 has sold ~3 million units. iPhone in general is a cultural phenomanon. As an iconic consumer device... it is NEWS. Something else S.J. also stated at the Friday press conference was that the iP4 only drops less than 1 additional call in 100 over the 3gS. The keyword there is "additional". It means it drops more calls than the 3gS does. Now, this may not sound like a lot but you have to take in the fact that only 1.5 calls per 100 are dropped in the U.S. on average. Do the math and see that at best it means the iP4 drops ~50% more calls and at worst nearly doubles dropped calls! Now, on to the sales figures. Sales and market share do not mean that a product is better. I'm going to have to point out the dominace that Microsoft had for the longest time... would any of you Apple supporters say that MS was superior just because they had broader saturation? How about this? Crystal meth, crack,and heroin sell better then just about anything. How great is that stuff huh? Sitting next to me is my smartphone which has for me been the best mass produced consumer electronic device I have ever experienced. Want to know what it is? Tough luck. I feel no need to broadcast it, nor justify my posession of it to anyone. It's just a smartphone. It does not define who I am.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:11

34. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


@roscuthiii: well... there is something that makes your daughter example a bit out of place. As you point it out it makes it look as if he wanted to put it as an excuse, in a very "if other do then I can do it too", but if you watch the conference and most precisely the phrase "challenge for the industry" you may be able to note that he never meant to put an excuse to "their" mistake, bu he'd rather say that is a common problem that nowadays has no fix. As for the sales... I never said that they were better because they sold more phones than anyone else... If that's what you understood then probably I misexpressed... What I meant was that you wouldn't think that a company who got to create that hype and that has what it takes to "convert" millions of people into blind zombies (or loyal users, depending if you are an apple hater or not) could be dumb enough to don't notice an issue of this magnitude after one year of rough testing. Again, this is based on what I've seen, some personal experience and frankly it makes a lot more of sense to me... But people can disagree and it's absolutely ok. BTW: have you guys seen the music video at the beginning of the conference? It's hilarious and also truth, but the guy's expression was weird :P

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 11:52

19. rmac (Posts: 12; Member since: 04 Jan 2010)


Just as the iMac was the desktop that reinvented the wheel for Apple, the iPhone is the flagship that is paving their current future. Just as a user foreign to Mac OS X would see different versions of the operating system as relatively the same, the point is ease of use and simplicity. When you set your best foot forward in designing a product, all aspects must be considered. This includes time developing the concept, design, window for release, etc. I fully understand that Apple wanted to get the iPhone 4 out to the masses at roughly the same time as its counterpart is about to release a massive competetor in the Droid Incredible, but with the priority of ease of use and simplicity behind their company, delaying the release of a new iPhone in an already saturated market probably wouldn't have affected sales as much as this design flaw. Take for example, the iPad. The hype of an Apple Tablet PC had been speculated for years before the idea was even conceived, and was drawn out to properly capitalize, and although several reviewers acclaim that the iPad is just a glorified iPhone, sales and demand still remain strong, even if only for the novelty. Apple could have drawn even further speculation of the iPhone 4, and I believe most people who were even remotely interested would have waited for its release before taking on any new smartphone. I'm sure if it could be done over again, Apple would've taken all of this into consideration, instead of alienate potential new customers by bringing such negative publicity. From a personal standpoint, its only a matter of time before Apple will need to reinvent the wheel another time to take back the edge from an expanding open source Android marketplace.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 11:59

20. lilbranbran (Posts: 21; Member since: 14 Jul 2010)


Apple should have stuck with the old design , or thought of another design that they knew wouldn't cause a mass panic ! Lol

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 13:12

24. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


I don't think they knew this.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 13:42

26. deejh (Posts: 34; Member since: 14 Apr 2010)


I dont have this problem with my evo :)

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:15

35. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


You don't EXPERIENCE it :P I can't experience it on my motorola c115

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 13:50

27. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)


iPhone owners, we get it okay. You love your phones. That's great, no one says you shouldn't. So when people respond negatively with whatever Apple/Jobs says or does, it not a direct attack on you. And it not always by people who own Android devices, all kinds of people are not liking Apple nowadays. And for the people who think the ip4 is an "Epic Fail", think again. Motorola, HTC, Samsung or whoever, would love to have the numbers that Apple is putting up on this one device. Design blunder or not, its a great product. With all that said, it seems to me that the people here that are soooo defensive of Apple are missing the point. This whole thing isn't about how many ip4 they've sold, or what other phones have this same problem. Its about Apple admitting they messed up, not say "We're not perfect." and definitely not about RIM, HTC, Nokia or any other company that good ol Steve tried to drag into this. This is about Apple/Steve Jobs' unwillingness to say we made a mistake in our design choice. We should have placed the antenna in a different spot, heres what we can do to make up for that mistake. But instead the played children's games by calling out other companies, tell people to hold it right, or calling it a "DEATH Grip". WTF? Who sees an incoming call, picks up the phone in their left hand and squeezes as hard as they possibly can to answer the call? Well, Steve Jobs obviously but no one else does. So to squeeze the life out of an Eris and then say "See look, it lost a bar." is a weak attempt to cover up your poor choice. This problem was discovered by real ip4 users who couldn't use the phone the way people with other phones are able to. No conspiracy, no "apple haters" just people who like the ip4 just like you. This was a series of bad PR moves, and as a CEO of the #2 smartphone manufacture, he should have been on top of his PR game if he wants to become #1. Instead he chose to blame everyone else but himself. He even blamed the people who bought his damn phone. That backlash Apple is getting is well deserved, and you Apple fans can defend Apples bad press all you want. But this is the court of public opinion and no matter what device I or anyone else here owns, we can say whatever we want about. So if your easily offended by people saying that your phone, the guy who made it, or your network sucks. My advise is get use to it. We had to get use to your comments when Apple was the only new and fresh OS on the market. Now with all the new OS's, UI's and Apps that are available to the rest of us, your brand new ip4 is looking like the same old iP3GS and still plagued with same old issues and even a set of new issues you have to get use to. So again, just get use to it. Because there are a lot more of us non-iPhone users then there are of you.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 14:15

29. arokingpin (Posts: 9; Member since: 03 Jul 2010)


Amen... I see this as the beginning of the demise of Apple... It's a story repeated throughout history... Like the roman empire, the stock market before 2008... all great things must come to an end... everything that goes up, must come down... And like all great leaders who have lost sight of what drove them to the top. Jobs is lost in a self made universe he believes to revolve around him, his brand and his remaining loyal subjects. Take note, we're witnessing the death of an empire and the birth of another. LOL

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 14:30

32. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Whateverman - I can see where you're coming from - but I have to tell you - I think that there is a possibility of Apple admitting a major flaw in their products followed by a public apology for the matter - and as a result losing much more in terms of public opinion - and possibly even sales - than the current situation. Apple markets their product as perfect ones. And even though Steve said that they are not perfect - they monstrous marketing machine from the tiny details of the design of the smallest and most insignificant product to their Black-and-white color usage to their interface in their products screams about perfection. This is one of the major reasons people buy and love Apple products so much. They are aware of their functionality - which is great - but that feeling of having something as close to perfect is what makes the difference imo. So, if Apple or Steve or anyone would admit to a major flaw inside their best-selling product - the entire image in the minds of consumers of a company which makes close-to-perfect products would collapse. I think that this could hurt Apple much much much more than a PR crisis over just one product - which to date continues to sell well. But let's go even further - Steve wants to make everyone happy, so he's giving everyone free bumpers for more than 2 months. Can you imagine how many iPhone 4s will be sold in 2 months? Can you imagine at what is the cost of handling for free about 2 million (and I'm being very very conservative here, considering the 3 million in 22 days) free bumpers? Even if the cost of production of each bumper was 1\10th of it's cost - 3$ - it's still 6 million US$ LOST. The cost of producing an iPhone 4 was said to be about 180$. So that means that Steve is giving out 33,333 iPhone 4's for free to everyone. So - supposedly Steve Admits failure and says he will fix the problem. How will he do so? I already addressed this on the first page, so I'll just quote: "Recall all the phones? Out of the question as it sells so hysterically. Redesign a new model with a different antenna? It would take too long, and by then the next gen iPhone will arrive anyway. Magically seal that X-spot on everyone's phones using little gnomes and fairies?" This product sells. From a business perspective - it's all that matters. Yes, all the media and internet is blowing hot air about all sorts of negative stuff about Apple, saying that Apple should have done this, or done that, and that Steve is an $@!$!, etc etc etc. But do you seriously believe that this whole issue will cause truly serious problems when it comes to PR for apple? I don't.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:17

36. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


u said u didnt want to double post, but yet this sounds like the same thing uve said 3 times now.. lol. yea, they did an estimate of what it would "cost" a recall would be over a billion dollars in profit.. the bumpers at RETAIL would be about 170million... or about what apple makes in 1 day by real world numbers. It probably costs in the neighborhood of about 1-3 CENTS to make that $30 rubber skin they are giving away for free.. so in end, its less than one of steve job's bonus checks to hand out bumpers or include them in every iphone4 box for the 1 year life of the phone. adding some rubber at the factory would be a cheap fix as well.. see my previous post on how to handle that.. ol

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:38

39. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)


+1 to ilia1986. But still, an apology, admission or any of that would not have been something people were looking for if he had just done the job right the first time. There was an engineer (Not the one that S.J. says never warned him) that predicted this whole thing happening a good six months before the iP4 was released. That would have been the time to research and come up with something to prevent this problem from ever occurring. A little extra time to develop a better antenna would not have lost Apple any share of the market. Lets even forget about the design choice and everything. If you see a problem coming, you should take care of it before it become a big deal. For instance, had he just admitted there was an issue with reception on the iP4 instead of telling people to hold it right, there would not have been the initial backlash of anger. Without the that anger there would have been no reason to point out other companies flaws. Without pointing out other companies flaws, there would be no second, third and fourth backlashes of anger from the general public. And no need for the press conference that angered all the other sleeping giants. A little civility goes a long way, and as I type this from my Mac computer and as I am a serious advocate of Apple computers over anything Windows. I feel confident in saying that if had SJ been straight with his very loyal fan base, we would have given him time. We would have bought those stupid covers without batting an eyelash, or just made ourselves aware that I can't hold my phone in my left hand. But instead he acted like the the Emperor from " The Emperor's New Suit" (It's a classic, I know). He didn't want to see what everyone else saw, and that was his real problem. The brand's is a lot stronger than any one flaw, but images can be built and also destroyed by word of mouth.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:55

40. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Well I am obviously not an expert in PR, but I think that sometimes, maintaining the illusion is more important than a bunch of people who have lost faith in that very same illusion. For example - if you watch 24 and many other similar shows - at times of crisis, the White House Administration assures the public that everything is OK, while in reality it's far far from it. And should a member of said Administration hugely fail at something - they might just cover it up. Same here. Not everyone will believe that this is a bad design on Apple's part - some people just act on reassurance from Steve. Apparently a lot of people, judging from ongoing sales. Maybe you're right - and this improper response will trigger a lot more coverage than even before, and Apple's stocks will fall, and it's sales will get hurt, but I personally don't think so. This isn't Micro$oft - a company that almost anyone hates on one level or another. This is the "good ol' Apple". The company that sets up your new Mac, and provides technical advice on every product for free - on a personal basis. In short - people don't lose faith so quickly just because of one product with one major issue to which the company didn't respond appropriately. Just my opinion.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 16:00

41. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


lol.. its not microsoft that everyone hates.. its good ol apple... think you just a little too biased for the arguement then? I dont hate MS. I dont hate apple. But ill never own an apple product. It is over priced, over hyped, and over controlled. Im too old for training wheels and to be told how to use my phone. If you like mommy steve telling you how to use ur equipment, power to you. Negative press lasts longer in the consumer's mind than positive press. You will remember Toyota's brake failures and their denials until it was too big to control, much longer than u will remember how reliable they used to be when u go to buy a new car. Its the same thing. And anyone that thinks any one company makes "perfect products" all the time is a moron and probably still thinks that Obama was a great choice for president. Its called having an opinion based on NO facts. LOL.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 16:05

42. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Perhaps. But that is you. People tend to forget. And they WILL forget eventually. This is true for politics, as it is true for consumer products and for everything else. And if Apple will not issue any further response - which I'm pretty sure they won't - this whole "Antennagate" issue will be forgotten one way or another. So far - it still sells. Let's see if you're right - and it's sales will steadily decline over the upcoming months.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 16:22

43. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


sales are going to decline regardless of this. There is always a huge surge at the initial release and then it becomes a steady number. Only Apple knows what their projections for sales really are and if its hurting them or not. My guess is they think like you and hope most people will forget. And while people are predominantly forgetful as a group, if you follow the rule of 9 that is preached in business alot (piss off 1 person, they tell 9 of their friends and you lose potential customers), i dont think this will be a "non issue" very soon if they dont at least fix the production of future units. ATT doesnt exactly have the best coverage and this only makes the situation worse. Most people dont live in a true full signal area with ATT and will therefor experience this issue until its truely fixed. Just because people stop reporting it doesnt mean people stop experiencing it. 2 years with a phone that constantly has issues will make many people switch. Ask Microsoft or Storm owners.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 16:37

44. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Well - let's wait and see then. After all - if this improves the entire industry in the long term - I'm all for it.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 17:06

45. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)


No company makes perfect products, but Obama is much better president than McCain or Palin or Bush or any Republican that comes to mind would have been. This county could not survive another 4 nor 8 years of rich men cannibalizing the middle class. Didn't want to take it there but seems it always goes there no matter what. Now back to phones.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 20:15

50. CRICKETownz (Posts: 980; Member since: 24 Oct 2009)


Two battery pulls in 8 months with my Blackberry Storm...wouldn't exactly call that "constant" issues. Most of the "issues" reported with the Storm came about by those who shouldn't have a smartphone in the first place and weren't patient enough of handle the mechanics of the phone.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 20:19

51. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


lol, you obviously know little about politics, so your right.. u shouldnt have taken it there. Bush steered us out of 2 recessions without spending 2 years blaming Clinton or terrorists after 9/11 and making false claims about jobs "created or saved" which is the biggest bunch of BS ive ever heard. If obama was doing something "good" for the country, the democrats wouldnt be so busy "exempting" themselves from every bill they create. If it was "good" wouldnt they want part in it? Obviously its not, and your brainwashed. I bet you own an iphone4. :) hows that for tying it back in to the discussion.. lol

posted on 19 Jul 2010, 03:04

57. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)


First off, if I offended you with my comment, I sincerely do apologize, that was not my true intentions. But I think you saw that coming anyway, why else would you put it out there? I fall for the bait so, I have no one to blame but myself. But you didn't have to take it that far about my knowlege of politcis or say I was "brainwashed. So you obviously must have seen this coming as well. Don't you ever in you life presume that you know anything about me or that you have any idea of what I may or may not know. That's the best way to get your feelings hurt. If you want to know a little more about me, click on my name you'll see how respectful I try to be toward other peoples thoughts and ideas. Not always successful, especially when something that directly impacts my life comes up, like politics. But I try. Talking about politics with you seems to be a bad idea because the subject encourages you to attack and I honestly have nothing against you. I disagree with you, but I would never call you brainwashed because of who you voted for. So here is where we will leave this conversation, you can think whatever you want about me. Post whatever political rants about Obama you want and I promise not to respond to it. And you can THINK that I'm brainwashed or that I'm a communist, a socialist or any of the other scary things that keep you up at night. Just don't post that bullshit anywhere I can see it. Deal?

posted on 19 Jul 2010, 05:38

58. ilia1986 (unregistered)


Guys guys, lets calm down here. This is Phone Arena - we talk about phones and other cool stuff - not about politics. Leave politics to the fat bureaucrats who still enjoy using the the old smartphones with Windows Mobile 5.0, as it's sluggishness and slowness reminds them about themselves.

posted on 19 Jul 2010, 09:16

59. Whateverman (Posts: 3233; Member since: 17 May 2009)


Nobody is upset here. We were just coming to an understanding that's all. I'm sure remixfa isn't angry either.

posted on 19 Jul 2010, 16:58

61. Templer16 (Posts: 20; Member since: 09 Apr 2009)


"Bush steered us out of 2 recessions..." Yep steered us out of a recession and straight into a near global drepression, THANKS BUSH! Hahaha Looks like I took the bate too = )

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 14:24

31. RORYREVOLUTION (Posts: 3042; Member since: 12 Jan 2010)


Well said by the video creator. It was apples fault where they put the antenna. When you put it where people always hold the phone, yea you are going to have problems. I have tried several times to do the death grip with my droid x and i just can't find it. I always have a constant full bars. You'd have to really go out of your way to find the death grip with most other phones. Having a case for this issue is no different from putting a bandaid over a deep wound. It may cover it up, but its still an ugly bandaid. Most people buy cases so they can protect their phone from scratches or if it gets dropped its protected from damage. NOT so they can prevent losing their signal. I have never heard of that before until now.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 15:29

37. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


I have heard that the newer iPhones are arriving with no issue. I have seen some newer iPhones with a more opaque antenna than the first wave in several apple stores. About the death grip, you need to have in mind two things: 1- It is not possible to recreate it on an iPhone 4 if your zone has a good spectrum of coverage of over -50/70db, because holding it by the antenna will drop 20db only, and as you may know the iPhone used to show 5 full bars from -50 to -90db which was somewhat tricky until the newer firmware. All those videos on the web were special cases of people living in zones with a signal of under -90db that caused a full five bars drop by holding it from the antenna. Right now, with the new update the phone shows the signal strength as it should have done from the very beginning and is not possible to drop five full bars anymore. 2- Unless you live in a weak signal area, you won't be able to recreate the death grip. And even if your phone shows full five bars, your real reception may be much lower, since I has come to us recently that most companies are a bit liar/tricky about the way they show the bars, some of them will take over a minute to update the bars on the screen to your current reception.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 20:21

52. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


since theyve been lying to make the signal strength look better than it is, i expect this problem to get better, not worse once everyone gets the signal patch. the rumors of changed iphones were just that.. rumors. there are vids of new ones (checked by serial numbers) doing the exact same thing.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 20:22

53. remixfa (Posts: 14163; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)


darn it.. i ment "i expect this problem to get worse, not better once everyone gets the signal patch" Because the bulk of people that dont pay attention to whats going on will assume they are just getting less signal all of asudden and not realize its just a lie being fixed.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 23:40

56. NOVAinc (Posts: 99; Member since: 24 Jun 2010)


I'm not sure whether it's better to live on a lie or a sad truth. Certainly AT&T doesn't help any of those XD But guy, I recommend you to focus on phones and leave politics out of here, it's for your own good. As for the rumors, I've heard of people saying that the problems got fixed, why would their word worth less than the words of those who upload videos? I think only time will tell... As for me, I honesty don't care, since if I was going to get a phone that costs me that much, I'd definitely get a case for it anyway.

posted on 18 Jul 2010, 23:21

55. rfrapp (Posts: 77; Member since: 10 Jun 2010)


I actually agree with a PhoneArena article about the Iphone 4. OH MY GOD!!!!!!!! IS THIS 2012 EARLY????????

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