With no last second agreement likely, Apple v. Samsung winner will be up to the 9 person jury

posted by Alan F.

Aug 18, 2012, 11:55 PM

With no last second agreement likely, Apple v. Samsung winner will be up to the 9 person jury

Part of Apple's proposed jury verdict form

Apple and Samsung met on Saturday in an attempt to get each side to reduce the number of claims both were presenting to the jury against the other in this epic court battle. With both sides unable or unwilling to work things out, it means that the ultimate decision on who wins the case could end up in the hands of the 9 strangers sitting in the jury box. And that's is the hard thing for the attorneys on both sides to swallow. At this stage, Apple and Samsung know each other well. After all, in one of life's sweetest ironies, Samsung is a major supplier to Apple. And after both sides take swings at each other, fighting dirty and using every trick in the book to win, it will probably come down to the jury to make a decision.

Judge Lucy Koh continued to be "pathologically optimistic" that both sides could reach a settlement and if not, she hoped both sides could agree to reduce its claims. The fewer claims that each side makes, the easier time the jury might have reaching a decision. Speaking of the jury, Judge Koh and her staff will be filing a tentative set of final jury instructions on Sunday which will reflect all of the objections both sides have had to the original set of jury instructions. Last weekend, the judge ordered both sides to meet to reach an agreement on the instructions, a process that fell flat on its face and left Judge Koh "disappointed". This week, the judge wants each side to file by 8am Monday, no more than 16 pages of their top 8 high priority objections to the jury instructions. Any further objections will have to wait for a hearing later on Monday.

One disputed point is which chart the jury will use to keep track of those devices manufactured by Samsung that Apple claims infringed on its patents. Apple says its one page chart is easier to read than the 6 page chart devised by Samsung which includes Android model numbers and other info that might not be pertinent to the jury reaching a decision. Each side also filed a proposed jury verdict form. Remember, this is not a criminal trial so the jury does not have to decide beyond a reasonable doubt if one of the parties is guilty. In this case, Apple will need to have proven by a preponderance of the evidence that Samsung is liable. And the same legal yardstick must be applied to Samsung's cross-claims against Apple.

source: Bloomberg, AppleInsider

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52 Comments

55. master0fursinz

Posts: 104; Member since: Apr 26, 2010

Well win or lose Sammy should up the rates for the parts of any new iGoStealing device to have Apple payback themselves on the judgement.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 4:23 PM 0

49. Danalvi1981

Posts: 49; Member since: Jun 02, 2010

Why Is Apple's hand white and Samsung's Brown??? Just wondering...

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 2:47 PM 0

44. Iphone4 unregistered

money talks at the end of day

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 11:15 AM 0

43. lateralus

Posts: 6; Member since: Apr 23, 2012

I use products from both companies and somehow I fail to see why people turn this into a debate about which company/product is better to the point of personal attack ( "you like apple? Fanboy! Go die in a fire! Etc etc) this only goes to show how ridiculous our patent system is and how badly it is in need of reform. All innovating companies, including BOTH Samsung and Apple, draw inspiration from competition to stay relevant. According to our current system, is Apple owed some royalties? Is Samsung owed some royalties? Yep. But to the point of banning products and crippling innovation? Definitely not.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 10:46 AM 2

58. SuperMaoriBro

Posts: 533; Member since: Jun 23, 2012

I agree. Defend your mates, defend your family. But I don't get why people have a need to defend a friggin company that will never care how your day was, or give you a Christmas present, or come visit you when you are sick....

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 5:17 PM 0

42. InspectorGadget80 unregistered

Just hope the jury does the right thing find SAMSUNG NOT GUILTY. and I also hope THE BIG GREEDY FRUIT DOESN'T pay them with free APPLE products like the way they did to the judge

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 10:31 AM 0

39. nnaatthhaannx2

Posts: 820; Member since: Oct 19, 2011

Alan do you have any info on the jury... like what kind of phones they own?... If they have a mac or PC? Do you know any of that?

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 9:47 AM 0

21. SuperMaoriBro

Posts: 533; Member since: Jun 23, 2012

I own and use products from both companies. I am not a fanboy of either compnay. I am however sick of these ridiculous court battles over stupid design patents. Come on. Maybe fix the patent system so companies can't get a stupid patent on a shape? I really love my new iPad but I really hate Apple's ethos. It really strongly makes me want to NOT buy any further Apple products.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 6:15 AM 4

40. u-suck-more

Posts: 529; Member since: Aug 26, 2011

exactly!

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 10:09 AM 1

20. phitch

Posts: 214; Member since: Mar 06, 2012

No one wins in this fight, which ironically will hurt Apple more than Samsung. The jury will probably be hung since all 9 have to agree on all counts of infringement. Also am I the only who ever notices this trend "Apple and X company end discussions without reaching an agreement." Seems like no matter what company enters into discussion with Apple the end result is no one agrees to license anything. Seeing Apple's numbers in this case I get the feeling that it goes something like this: X Company: We will license your 7 patents in exchange for our 7. Apple: How about we pay .15cents per patent per device and you pay, say $5 per patent per device? X Company: That's insane! Apple: Doesn't matter, we are just going to use your patents regardless and sue you afterwards!

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 6:05 AM 6

16. Droid_X_Doug

Posts: 5993; Member since: Dec 22, 2010

This little pissing match is nowhere near over. Regardless of how the jury decides, the loser will be appealing. If Apple gets the nod from the jury, Sammy already has a software patch ready to remove whatever is ruled to infringe. If Sammy wins, Apple files its appeal. Meanwhile, the attorneys bill at $750+/hour, and add to the college funds for their kids.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 3:29 AM 2

8. yatmiko

Posts: 37; Member since: Dec 13, 2011

Wish for Sammy

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 1:11 AM 0

7. -box-

Posts: 3991; Member since: Jan 04, 2012

Very exciting. May the jurors have wisdom and insight into the truth. One plus: odd number of jurors, so no chance of a hung jury.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:43 AM 1

56. tedkord

Posts: 17532; Member since: Jun 17, 2009

Federal civil trial verdicts must be unanimous, but the threshold is a preponderance of the evidence, and not beyond the shadow of a doubt. However, only one juror dissenting means a hung jury, unless Samsung and Apple agreed prior to the trial to allow a majority verdict.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 4:52 PM 0

6. Savage unregistered

The Legend. Ends. Meh, not legend, just an example to waste time and money will hopefully end. I'm curious to see how much was spent on these trails and if it was worth it.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:41 AM 7

4. techguy22

Posts: 227; Member since: Aug 09, 2012

sadly apple will win. thats my biggest fear though.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:23 AM 7

5. XPERIA-KNIGHT unregistered

doesnt matter if they win the battle because android will win the "war"

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:35 AM 7

35. remixfa

Posts: 14605; Member since: Dec 19, 2008

yea, if Apple wins against samsung, it validates their generic design patents for squares, rectangles, and green phone icons. With precidence and Android's biggest manufacturer already gimped it will be easy for Apple to go after other suppliers. Android might not have a "war" to win. Smaller guys like HTC and Sony will likely bow to whatever Apple demands if Samsung loses to avoid millions in legal fees and possible bans. If samsung gets a full smack down (very unlikely) there will be a massive void to fill and no one wants to be stuck in litigation while the other competitors fill it. Apple doesnt need to confront the head of the octopus directly (google). If it can slice off all the arms, the octopus is DOA.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 9:12 AM 2

12. jroc74

Posts: 6023; Member since: Dec 30, 2010

I think Apple is gonna win this too. Big Android fan....but being realistic. The judge barely gave Samsung a chance in this case.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 2:40 AM 4

15. tegradragon

Posts: 68; Member since: May 23, 2012

Look even I'm being realistic, but Samsung just fell short of evidences. It was not the judge's fault.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 2:44 AM 2

2. Dr.Phil

Posts: 2578; Member since: Feb 14, 2011

This isn't the end of it. I honestly believe this trial is really just a practice run for Apple to see if it could go after it's real game: Google.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:15 AM 6

3. XPERIA-KNIGHT unregistered

dude apple is no good give it up....

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:16 AM 6

10. Dr.Phil

Posts: 2578; Member since: Feb 14, 2011

Where did I say that I was an Apple fan or supported Apple in any way? I was merely just stating my opinion as to the ulterior motive behind Apple. If anything my comment should've shown to be more Samsung-favored than Apple-favored, if you were to look at it that way. I was saying that Apple isn't using this lawsuit to go after Samsung but rather Google. This is evident in some of the patents Apple has been trying to challenge that go after the software Samsung uses rather than just the hardware. If Apple wins their case on those software patents, then it would be the "boost" they need to go after Google more directly. I am not saying that as an "Apple fan" or an "Apple supporter", but instead I make these comments as an observer as to what I think they are doing. Also, because you brought the subject up, I am actually an Android user. I think you need to read more carefully and use some critical thinking skills before making such comments.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 1:55 AM 5

18. XPERIA-KNIGHT unregistered

" I honestly believe this trial is really just a practice run for Apple to see if it could go after it's real game: Google." This last statement would seem like you are almost ready for this case to end and see what and WHO else apple can conquerer.....it kinda implies an "anticipation" on your part to see what else is going to happen "FOR" apple......thats just the way it came off to me when i read it..

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 3:50 AM 2

27. sithman

Posts: 299; Member since: Apr 21, 2012

Then re read it, cuz that's not what he meant.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 7:05 AM 2

26. sithman

Posts: 299; Member since: Apr 21, 2012

Good post dr Phil. Well said

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 7:04 AM 1

45. OSFantasma

Posts: 119; Member since: Sep 27, 2011

That might be the reason Google is letting there subsidiary Moto go after them. Seems to be turning into a game of sue or be sued. Then again I'm sure this will show consumers how apple is actually using tech that belongs to other companies with out paying while they sue for a crazy lump sum for ridiculous design patents like the rectangle and slide to unlock. I really hope Apple and Google can work this out without litigation. I'm tired of hearing this company did this and this that. I just want to see impressive technology being born.... Self driving cars, and self aware homes, nanotechnology advance os that help fight malware and make security firms look like ancient bussiness models...

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 1:32 PM 0

14. jroc74

Posts: 6023; Member since: Dec 30, 2010

I agree. They want to go at Google so bad for Android. Some folks must have forgot that some icons Apple were crying about were part of stock Android. The G Nex? Stock Android...cuz it looks nothing like an iPhone, so why is it even mentioned in Apple lawsuits? Then the Google Now thing...they want to get rid of Android so bad.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 2:42 AM 0

30. MartyK

Posts: 1045; Member since: Apr 11, 2012

I really don't think APPLE want any part of Google. The reason is Moto just launch a 7 patents infringment against Apple this past Friday, and they never respond. Plus, if they are watching their Rockstar Partner (Microsoft), Moto just won an infriongment against them and is trying to get their gaming system ban.

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 8:11 AM 0

1. XPERIA-KNIGHT unregistered

"Samsung is a major supplier to Apple." hahah see thats where samsung has the upper hand because if apple wins this case with the dirty schemes they have be using, Samsung can easily "cut" the string after that contract is over and find someone else to work with....As im sure there are PLENTY other companies that would like to work with sammy........ HTC, SONY. MOTO MAYBE?

posted on Aug 19, 2012, 12:13 AM 11

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