Verizon's CTO finds it hard to see WP7 making a splash against Android, iOS, & BlackBerry
Unfortunately for Nokia, they might face some barriers with Verizon if they intend on reentering the US market now that they’ve decided to move forward with Windows Phone 7 as its primary OS of choice. It appears that Verizon’s CTO, Tony Melone, is skeptical of seeing the newly formed partnership between Nokia and Microsoft having any major impact in the market right now. Specifically, he doesn’t seem to think that “Verizon needs the Nokia and Microsoft relationship” since there are three primary contenders right now.
In fact, Melone doesn’t agree that there will be a “three-horse race” between iOS, Android, and Windows Phone 7 that Nokia CEO Stephen Elop envisions. Rather, Melone believes that the heated competition is between iOS, Android, and BlackBerry – with no indication of Windows Phone 7 making a huge impact. Granted that his attitude about Microsoft’s platform isn’t as favorable as one would allege, it could easily change if Windows Phone 7 starts to pick up some serious steam.
In any event, it’ll be interesting to see what plan of action Nokia might pull out of their sleeves in order to win Verizon’s heart – not to mention their business.
source: CNET via Engadget
1. achilles (Posts: 54; Member since: 27 May 2010)
No cute using windows 7 was very stupid. Nokia just went from bad to worse. If your house is on fire you don't jump out of the window 5 floors down!
16. TKFox007 (Posts: 303; Member since: 02 Nov 2010)
I wouldn't say it was stupid of Nokia, but that it wasn't a good choice but a minuscule step in the right direction. I don't think Windows Mobile 7 is going to be a huge impact as it's still in fourth place when compared to the other three mobile OSes
32. PhoneLuver (Posts: 480; Member since: 05 Jul 2010)
WP7 is suffering mainly because of empty promises made for Windows Mobile. I used Windows Mobile 5.0 to 6.5 and Windows failed to deliver. I finally switched to IOS and I'm very happy with my device and the OS.
I've used Android and I've also had good experiences with it.
Hardware wise, Android seems to be progressing much faster than IOS as Apple is constrained to 1 device once a year. That's a bit of a gamble and proposes a huge risk as they might miss the bus and be surpassed by competitors. One such example is the iPad2. If it fails to deliver an equal or better experience than Android 3.0 or WebOS Apple is screwed! The only thing competitors still need to work on is content for their devices and Apple has some major competition!
All I'm saying is that while IOS and Android are the top dogs at the moment, nothing is cast in stone, it's a cutthroat business!
34. TKFox007 (Posts: 303; Member since: 02 Nov 2010)
Android really isn't progressing faster than iOS, there are tons of Android phones that are released but they're essentially the same only different manufacturers. I know there's some Android sets that have dual core chipsets and are 4G.
I've played with high-end Android devices and they feel sluggish. An iPhone still feels snappy, even if it's and old model. My iPhone 4 feels faster than a Droid X when it comes to loading and exiting apps. Apple's iPhone lasts longer than an Android equivalent so they don't need to release several models a year.
39. tuminatr (Posts: 734; Member since: 23 Feb 2009)
I think Nokia could be exactly what WP7 needs. I have played with it and it does seem like a solid OS
2. N.Reynolds (Posts: 257; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
WP7 came in the game too late, uses too much battery and data, and I am still skeptical about them after how bad windows mobile was.
10. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
So im assuming youve tried it? It's way better then windows mobile was. Also dont know what phone you experienced but I am getting better batt life from my LG Quantum then any other Android, BB, or webOS phone I had.
14. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
It is good I was fairly new to it but I just dont see them regaining what little market share they have left. WP7 is off to a running start..
5. roldefol (Posts: 4097; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Hear, hear. Verizon already has WebOS as its 4th smartphone line, for those who appreciate simplicity and clean design. The Pre 3 has the goods to go head to head against any number of (reasonably-sized)Android phones. Let's hope Verizon offers the Pre 3 this summer.
11. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
I was a webOs lover but think they failed w there much overhyped event and they have alot of ground to make up. And they broke there promise of devices being ready to ship shortly after that event. R.I.P. & hello WP7 :)
7. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
The problem with WebOS is that no one remembered it to start with. I'd put WebOS right in the category with WP7...neither can compete with iOS, Android, or Blackberry...
12. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
I find it funny how people are bashing WP7 it's app marketplace has already surpassed webOS and is only going to get better. I think it's a viable contender and the marketing push is big for it as well. Don't be scared of a little healthy compettion Android & Apple lovers :)
6. barfbag (unregistered)
The only 2 OSs to come out of the gate were WebOS and iOS. It seems some commenters are quick to forget how crappy Android 1.5 was and how long it took to get to 2.2. BlackBerry OS is going the same path as Symbian....dated with far too many options.
When WP7 hits its 2nd major milestone, then this might be worth revisiting. fools.
If Nokia really wanted to break into the US, Wp7 is their Trojan horse.
13. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
Well said & Im already loving WP7 and it can only get better! :) gotta love all the Android & Iphone lovers who like to bash other competion and most prob havent even tried it! I dont see how the OS wont continue to grow esp with Nokias new announcement and the big Marketing push! Its is a refreshing new platform.
9. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
Lol Verizon is just all hyped up on there having the Iphone and now thats there focus before they were bashing it and pushing droid gotta love these corporate tactics. Why not have an open portfolio. I personally am Loving my new LG Quantum WP7 & think the OS is a refreshing change. I love there advertising it is true. And it should only get better with the updates. Also there are a ton of apps already! more then webOS, And they are good apps. Blackberry doesnt even have any good photo apps close to what windowspohone7 marketplace does! To those on the fence check it out. I dont think you'll be dissapointed. I think alot of the haters are just fans of Android & Apple and may feel threatned. I hate esp when people bash something too and they havent even tried it!
15. snowgator (Posts: 3504; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Non-users seem to be writing WP7 off, while those that have it seem to think it is a great OS with nothing but upside. I am onboard with WP7 owners. I still think that WP7 may be a threat more for the Mid-range Smart Phone user then the high end users of Droid and the iPhone. WP7 just doesn't have anything with the power, screen res, memory, or speed as those Motorola Droids, Samsung galaxies, or Apple, and it is not like Nokia excells in that area either. Blackberry is trying to catch up to the premium phones, but they may be a strictly buisness system if they don't hit a triple, or at least get on base, soon. I can see WP7 may easily take that consumer. I also find it funny along with other posts that Mr. Melone doesn't mention WEBOS. Wonder what that means if you read between the lines of Verizon's plans as to which system they will grab out of Nokia or HP and which they won't?
17. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
Well put. I have to say though that so far my Wp7 is the zippiest phone ive used. Faster then EvoShift "4g" even that I used when on Sprint..
23. snowgator (Posts: 3504; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
To all: Just read on two other sites that Mr. Melone DID mention WebOS and HP and said he was "excited" by the brands opportunities to compete. Phone Arena also left off Motorola's comment that they couldn't see the advantage of a "closed" OS like WP7. Verizon sounds like they are willing to go to bed with HP, Nokia ain't even getting a date until they bring more to the pagent. Motorola's comment makes sense, considering they were nearly drummed out of the consumer phone buisness entirely until they got onboard with Droid.
18. TKFox007 (Posts: 303; Member since: 02 Nov 2010)
While Windows Mobile 7 is really nice, looks good and operates pretty well and has a lot of polish to it. But now that Verizon has the iPhone and a slew of Android devices, people are going to write it off like they have been writing off Windows Mobile in the past. Even Blackberry is starting to fade as people are adopting the iPhone and Android for business purposes even though Blackberry has better security, exchange and enterprise support.
20. snowgator (Posts: 3504; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Haven't seen the stats to say Blackberry has lost any ground in buisness applications. As a matter of a fact, even though the percentages of Blackberry seems to have dropped, mostly that has been in the increase of smart phones sold, and that Blackberry hasn't made any inroads with the new consumers who are flocking to Droid. But sales of Blackberry have been steady almost to the device from year to year. Would be interested if you had any info on that market changing.
35. TKFox007 (Posts: 303; Member since: 02 Nov 2010)
There's been a few articles around here about how some places are ditching Blackberry for iPhone, I don't remember which one. Even Dell has ditched Blackberry for WM7 phones that they made. I used to work at a call center where only two people in management had Blackberrys, the rest had Android.
19. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
You guys are sitting here arguing about what OS is best and that's not the conversation that needs to be happening. The conversation needs to be about which OS has the ability to be popular with regular consumers. Period. People want the iPhone because it's the iPhone. People want Android because Verizon made it look like it was the second coming of Christ. People want Blackberry (ish) because companies and the government trust them. But beyond that, no one really cares about WP7 or WebOS (which is already evident by its failure on Sprint, AT&T, and Verizon).
I'm sorry he is right. WP7 and WebOS are both great operating systems, but people just aren't interested. Either because they don't know they exist or just don't want to go for the phone that no one has. Going to a less popular phone mean less apps or the possibility of the OS not being supported. So people stick with what they know.
I've used WP7 and it is seriously awesome. Would I trade it for my iPhone? No. The iPhone itself is simple, but the apps, like on most phones, are what sell it.
Right now, it's not what's about what's best. People are going to go with what is popular.
21. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
I disagree with your assesment. The issue with Wp7 isn't user interest but carrier incentive to push. Blackberry is a dying platform on Verizon wireless and all carriers in all honesty. All that needs to be done for Wp7 devices to launch is an add campaign.
Remember look at Android before Verizon got their hands on it. The interest was almost non existant. A couple of multimillion dollar ad campaigns later and the OS became very interesting. The only reason people look into Blackberries is due to its keyboard. Ask any VzW, Att, Sprint, or Tmo rep and they will tell you that many people that have no idea what a blackberry is will walk up and say "yeah i want that because of the keyboard...".
All Wp7 needs is an ad campaign and no one will remember blackberry but business users. Ironically, Wp7 is said to be a better business choice then Android which isn't hard.
27. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
Wp7 has an add campaign that plays alot & I thinks it's a pretty good one at that!
38. JeffdaBeat (unregistered)
But you know what's funny? The ad dollars that went into Verizon's commercials is a fraction of the money Microsoft put into WP7...and yet no one cares. People see that Microsoft has a new phone out, but they aren't running to it because of...Windows Mobile.
41. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
No one remembers Window's Mobile. If you worked for a carrier you would realize you can offer a repackaged WM device with a droid logo and people would buy it.
Saying its people's memories of WM is absolutely devoid of logic. Phone OSes are not known enough by cellphone consumers to really matter. The Storm had a 35% return rate yet the Storm 2 sold well despite the issues. Go to a Verizon, ATT, and Sprint store and ask people who own iPhones, Droids, and Blackberries about Windows Mobiles. Only a small percentage will have a clue of what you are talking about.
Microsofts Ad campaign means nothing because its not a carrier pushing it. Ultimate this is what people who do not work in the cellphone industry do not understand. The only device that has the power to sell itself is the iPhone. The Wp7 devices will be a slow sale just like android and in reality this is not about consumer adoption but Manufacture adoption.
What is funny is this is argument can be summed up as "LOL Wp7 didn't sell like h0tcakes= dead lol cuz we think we know cellphones!". Wp7 devices have already done what took android over a year to accomplish... An app store with over 8k apps.
WebOs is dead and thats because Palm devices in general are a had sell to consumers. People like aggressive names and sleek form factors. With a name like Pre or Pixi and the look of an egg its not a very appetizing device.
24. snowgator (Posts: 3504; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
You are right except in one regard: the idea only the most popular will sell is true, but misses the larger, more fun point: What makes something popular today as opposed to tomorrow? Tech changes quickly, but the consumer wants a phone for a specific purpose, and then will pick and chose as time develops their tastes. A lot of the people who bought Droids two years ago may now want something simplier, and one of these emerging sytems may feed that. All it takes is one hit- and name reconignition makes it popular. Droid, iPhone, and Blackberry will NOT satisfy all the smart phone customers that are just arriving. Feature phones are dying- all those are going to smart phones. Laptops are selling less and less- smart phones can handle a lot of those duties and provide other services (tablets are taking those buyers too, I know). So, it IS about what OS is best- becouse the market can support quality. Don't forget- up until the 80s, only the big three auto makers could sell cars in the U.S.
28. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
WP7 has not failed. It's actually off to a pretty good start! webOS is another story they are losing what little share they have left as I type this lol.
22. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
Only Nerds care about what type of OS there device has. The majority of users don't care about what OS is in there device aslong as it is as cool at the iPhone. The iPhone is the ONLY device with true brand recognition.
25. pecemaloto (Posts: 22; Member since: 17 Dec 2010)
sad but tru... wp7 has a long way to go...by the summer things will be clearer- i5 + andro 2.4 + wp7.01
26. lubbalots (unregistered)
The asian manufacturers produce 1 or 2 wp7 against them making a hundred droid phones. How does one expect wp7 to compete. look at mcw. No new wp7 announced by any manufacturer and some claim they still support it. Hope MS stop dealing with asian manufacturers and make nokia their exclusive.
29. Landmarkcm (Posts: 497; Member since: 11 Aug 2009)
Dont think it would be good to make Nokia the only manufacturer. I love my LG Quantum. Im assuming it will be like Motorola is with there "Droids" but others still make Android phones too.
30. snowgator (Posts: 3504; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
It was Motorola that made Droids respected and a household name. (Well .. and that Goerge Lucas guy.) But once they hit, everyone was on the driod- wagon. WP7 will have that opportunity with Nokia, and there is now way HTC, LG will stop making them, especially if Nokia hits.
33. lolbradley (Posts: 6; Member since: 10 Feb 2011)
I love my evo to death, and look forward to buying an optimus 3d. That being said, there is a lot of potential for both webos and wp7. I work for Verizon tech support, I see way less problems with webos than android. I'm not even going to mention the iPhone, that is in a different category when it comes to tech support. But honestly webos just works. It may not have the developer support like ios or Android, but that is no reason to write it off. Especially now that HP is putting decent hardware into their devices. Ad for wp7, I absolutely love it. It smooth and simple. It's new, so there are a motif areas for improvement, but like somebody above me said, Android wad not what I would consider amazing when it first launched. It's shocking to methane anybody would discredit Nokia so quickly. Has everybody forgotten how reliable their devices are? Not to mention their impressive hardware specs. I expect to some amazing things coming from Nokia in the future. Sure, I would rather see Nokia release Android devices, but writing them off is insane.
That being said, I anticipate android will lead soon enough. Followed by wp7. If apple wants to keep their market share they are going to have to step up their game. Small upgrades to their handsets are soon going to only cut it for the people who's only criteria for purchasing a device is an Apple logo.
It is an extremely competitive market that has insane growth. Smartphone are becoming more and more common. Upgrades from feature phones to smartphone are going to continue to rise even more than they already have in the last year. It's still anybody's game at this point. Discrediting any manufacturer or OS at this point is naive and idiotic.
36. Whateverman (Posts: 3242; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Well said, but I think Nokia is trying to hard to put out mediocre products with no mass appeal. Their hardware has always been tops, but recent models have looked all that nice. Maybe its something you have to see to appreciate, but the bright oranges and blues are not something I would pull out in public. Also Symbian had the look and feel of a feature phone, IMO.
Microsoft was just all around horrible and not user friendly at all. I must admit I haven't used a WP7 device yet, but WM 5 - 6.5 left a very bitter taste. My hope is that WP7 is better, but as a CDMA subscriber I wont be seeing one for months. For smart business, Android would have been the obvious choice but that also would have meant swallowing their pride because of those anti-Android comments from late last year. Nokia needed Android, far more then Android needed Nokia. So to make demands like replacing a much desired app like Google Maps with Ovi Maps just seemed a bit like the beggar wanted to be the chooser as well.
37. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
Apple will never be able to beat out WP7(when it starts gaining popularity) or Android for one reason. Apple releases ONE phone a year at 2 price points vs Android and Wp7 which are on several multiple devices and form factors at multiple price points released all throught out a year.
It is statistically impossible for one device to own the market vs an entire range of products. If you look at the iPhone statistically the sales are spectacular as YoY the device continues to gain momentum. I mean this is like saying the Sony Nx8 tv needs to step up its game because its sales does not defeat the entire product line of Vizio.
40. lolbradley (Posts: 6; Member since: 10 Feb 2011)
It is "statistically possible" for one phone to beat out Android. Just not likely. And to be honest if ios was more like Android, open and customizable, it wouldn't be crazy to expect it to happen. I mean Steve jobs tells us its innovative, why wouldn't you believe that?
And the tv analogy was incorrect at best. I understand what you are saying, but you're misguided. It's a battle of environments. And even though Apple makes one device right now, they are a contender. A big one. One that could easily reach number one.
42. lollipop (Posts: 43; Member since: 15 Feb 2011)
No it is not. The argument about Open and customizable means NOTHING to an end consumer. Many people who buy smartphones will never learn the device other then "tap browser, tap email, tap dialer/SMS/MMS, and tap (__) store.". If you think for a minute that costumizable OS and being "open" is a sell to a customer then you need to go learn sales.
Steve Jobs can say whatever he wants but there is a reality here. Only a small segment of customers are power users that wish to push their device and have it do whatever they want/need. The rest only want the device for the Interface, features, or capabilties that catch their eye. You learn as a sales person for a carrier never stress open because to the average user that word means as much to them as the words Pavor Nocturnus. In otherwords it is irrelevant.
As for my analogy it was far more then correct. It accurately expresses exactly what the sales of devices is. You will have people who only want the latest phone and do not care how great the iphone is. You will have users that will dislike an android device because they dislike the UI (Stock included) and same for the iphone.
Ecosystem also means NOTHING. If Ecosystem meant something then users would adopt Wp7 in droves because more users have Windows PCs then any form of computer OS combined. What does an iPhone ecosystem mean to a Windows user when the only other Apple product they use is iTunes? A user (me for example) with a gaming PC, an Xbox 360, Xbox Live, and outlook all will get more from a Wp7 phone but I don't want a Wp7 device. I like my iphones UI and apps . Ecosystem wise I should be a DEAD win for Windows but i am not.
Apple is a major player but to think that one phone can dominate a market is idiocy. What you do not understand is one device cannot dominate an entire line up of devices. If Apple sells 5 million phones it will still lose to out to the entire product line of HTC and samsung who all they need to do is to have 5 devices from each manufacture sell 600k which is normal. Individually not one device sold was enough to even be noticed against the iPhone but accumulated sales will allow Android to win every year.
Summation my analogy was perfect. Learn sales before you argue.