Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 blows competition out of the water and has the benchmarks to prove it
2. android_hitman (unregistered)
of course it's MUCH better than the older competition....
let's see it compared to the TEGRA 3 ...
52. ledbetterp3 (Posts: 467; Member since: 31 Aug 2011)
Exactly what I was going to say. Congratulations, they beat last year's technology... I think that when every other processor manufacturers release their new processors, qualcomm will be the same reject it is now. Just my thoughts, but who knows?
58. Mario1017 (Posts: 336; Member since: 04 Sep 2011)
It wouldn't matter if it was compared to the tegra 3 because this processor is still a dual core, not quad like the tegra. if you really wanted to compare the tegra to something and make it fair, compare it to the quad core S4, this proc is still AMAZING no matter how you look at it or what you compare it to
65. ledbetterp3 (Posts: 467; Member since: 31 Aug 2011)
It wouldn't make it fair to compare it to something that will be released much, much later, but to compare it to something that was released around the same time, it is. This processor is good/great for a dual-core, but that's because no one else bothers working on dual-core any further, and if so, they didn't release anything yet. The best thing to compare this to is the tegra 3(especially since that's what I think they arecompeting with), and it does not match against it. This will be put in high-end smartphone along with the tegra 3. Not mid-range handsets, along with the older, obsolete processors. At least I'm pretty sure.
67. maier9900 (Posts: 272; Member since: 17 Dec 2011)
This architecture type processor will beat Tegra 3
3. Karan_Malhotra (Posts: 27; Member since: 17 Feb 2012)
If it woud have been based on cortex A-15 then it would have been better
4. Guest_star (Posts: 231; Member since: 30 Dec 2011)
Can someone pls explain to me the difference between cortex A-9 and A-15...I thought it is in the size of a chip, but this one is 28nm and it is still called A-9 like the ones on 40nm...
7. Victor.H (Posts: 631; Member since: 27 May 2011)
So, the ARM Cortex A9 and the Cortex A15 are different architectures. The 28nm and 40nm that you mention are different manufacturing technologies.
An architecture is basically a logical description of the processor - a better architecture gives you a faster, more efficient core.
Theoretically, an architecture is independent of the technology. Of course, a more precise technology (like 28nm is more precise than 40nm) allows faster frequencies and has other benefits, but it's not tied to the architecture.
8. Guest_star (Posts: 231; Member since: 30 Dec 2011)
ty, It's sad that i don't know that because I study electrical engeneering, microelectronics, this is my feeld of study, gues I have a lot to learn :)
12. Bangthering_007 (Posts: 36; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
15. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the S4 will not initially be an A15. The Krait core starts as an A9 equivilant and will morph into an A15 CLASS (they actually dont use ARM designs like the rest of the chip makers do, which is part of the reason they stay behind the pack) after the first generation, much like the current tegra line is doing. That is part of the draw back of being first in line. The current power increase that they are experiencing has more to do with shrinking the die and increasing the GPU than it does with the chip itself.
The exynos is getting its facelift with a similar reduction in die size and its supposed to get a 50% improvement from its current power ratio. They all are.
This "test" looks nice, but its false. It also will not look as nice when the current generation of chips all takes the same leap. It will look pretty much like it does right now as everyone will get similar leaps in power.
19. Bangthering_007 (Posts: 36; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
Exactly my point!! The conventional way of measuring the processor prowess is DMIPS/MHz. Krait scores 3.3 DMIPS/MHz. ARM hasn't officially announced thos numbers for Cortex A15 but rumour has it that it may be around 3.5 DMIPS/MHz. So the gap has been considerably reduced and OMAP 5 is not comin out until Q4 of this year (TI come on wished it was early) similarly wayne AKA Tegra 4. This performance gap from Scorpion isn't possible with just improved A9 architecture since the majority SOCs already are using it. Exynos 32nm build technology compared to 28nm of Qualcomm evens out this slight gap in DMIPS/MHz as they can fit more no. of transistors on the same size die. Ofcourse this is all theory the real world performance all depends on the drivers and the code optimization. But have to commend Qualcomm to be the first to out 28nm SOCs and to bring this huge performance improvements to its Krait architecture.
21. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
The Qualcomm MSM8960 S4 running the Adreno 225 is only dual-core running at 1.5GHz (but it can run efficiently at 1.7GHz because of its 28nm technology) which is a fabulous chip. So far the best dual-core that had been benched marked ever!
Wait until the Qualcomm APQ8064 quad-core S4 running up to an astounding 2.5GHz with the new Adreno 320 comes out. That will most definitely be inline or BETTER than what should be coming out from Samsung, NVIDIA, & Texas Instruments. That Adreno 320 chipset should be the first to ACTUALLY reach Xbox 360 & PS3 graphics, I don’t know about you but to have that type of graphical power in your pocket is truly incredible. And to think that will be a fact before the year is over because it’s scheduled to be released this fall.
You have to be impressed with the S4 chips Qualcomm is coming out with. They hold a significant advantage running with the 28nm technology. I would take a 2.5GHz quad-core 28nm S4 Krait chipset running on a 2500 to 3000 mAh battery at anytime.
The new S4’s are coming out very STRONG, and there is a chance that this new generation of chips might belong to Qualcomm & the super ballzy S4 Krait chipsets. Right now their dual-core chips are benchmarking the best, so it’s reasonable to think the same about their quad-core chips ESPECIALLY if they run at the blazingly fast 2.5GHz……WHAT?!?
People have to remember that Qualcomm had been in this chip making game for a long, long time & it’s about time for the sleeping giant to wake up & flex its muscles! Good for Qualcomm because this will push innovation even further!
26. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
lol. I wish i shared your enthusiasm for the "waking giant". lol.
Just for clarity though, the adreno 320 chip isnt even on Qualcomms public roadmap yet which goes through 2013, so its going to be a good little while until you see that GPU in a phone/tablet. So you are talking past 2 full generations from now (current A9 comparable krait + first gen a15 comparable krait which is 2nd half of 2012) before you see the adreno 320 krait generation.
If your looking 3 generations in advance, all comparable chips will be running at that speed, so just like now when 1ghz sounds so yesterday, eventually (and its boggling to say so) 2.5ghz will be "so yesterday". lol
Just for giggles, i found some articles about the Mali core that samsung is planing on using in 2013. It supports DUAL QUAD core phones. (The adreno 320 supports 4 "3D cores" so i have no idea how comparable that all is) Think about that.. 8 cores in your phone and should be about 10-20% faster than a ps3/360.... NUUUTS.
Of course, I think both the Mali 658 and the Adreno 320 will be "tablet class" chips only.
32. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
That is not true here is what is on Wikipedia:
The S4 Krait quad-core will be out before the holidays in 2012. It's pretty much a must at this point.
35. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
Here is another:
Link won't work, engadget is garbage! lol
Never mind I will find this link elsewhere!
36. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
SAE, you are disagreeing with an official roadmap from Qualcomm and showing me wikipedia as proof. Thats just silly.
Yes, the Krait will be out any day now. The krait quad core will be out by christmas 2012. But the first generation krait quad core does NOT have the Adreno 320 GPU, its going to be paired with the Adreno 305 and come out at a 1.7ghz quad core, scalable to about 2.0ghz. The 3RD generation Krait will be the 2.5 ghz with the Adreno 320, which isnt scheduled until well into 2013.
Whats weird is that on the quadcore, the radio bands are not integrated into the chip like the dual cores will be. I dont know why that is.
39. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
That was the same link I was going to show you. It says the Adreno 305 but there is still hope for the 320 to make it in 2012. We still don't know. This is all speculation. We are all talking right now.
At least we can agree with a 2.5GHz quad-core as a possibility in 2012 as per your link. 1.7GHz quad-core with the Adreno 305 should still be up to par with anything Samsung, NVIDIA, & Texas Instruments will have to offer. Qualcomm is serious this time around.
40. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
you are so enthusiastic i just wanna hug you. lol.
Well, when the 4212 drops some speed tests, we will see. And when the 5xxx quad core drops sometime this year, we can bench that vs the krait quad. No point in argueing over hypotheticals. :)
43. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
lol You are right. This is fun to talk about though!
50. Dark4o90 (Posts: 205; Member since: 20 Feb 2011)
yes of course and wait for the exynos a-15 quadcore
5. 1701nino (unregistered)
They didn't compare it to tegra 3 because its quad-core and the S4 is a dual-core processor.And this a benchmark betwen dual-cores.The fact is in 2011 qualcom was behind all other chip manufacturers because they based all of their chips on cortex A-8 archi. while everybody else went to cortex A-9 archi.
But with S4 they are catching up with the competition;)
6. Victor.H (Posts: 631; Member since: 27 May 2011)
Absolutely, also - there are no quad-core phones to compare with yet.
9. thelegend6657 (unregistered)
Processing department not deparment
Btw what's wrong with snapdragon , it wasn't really that slow compared with rivals right ?
+ why android dudes like remixfa love calling it crapdragon ?
14. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the crapdragon chip has the smallest GPU of the big 4 chip names and the least processing power. The 8660 (current dual core) is based off the oldest chip design and thus is also the most power hungry. My single core Hummingbird processor beats the 8660 in most every task when its properly optimized. It also comes with a bigger GPU. If a single core can best a dual core in 80-90% of its functions at similar clock speeds, then that dual core has no business being called a premium chip.
exynos >omap > tegra2 > crapdragon is how they go according to over all power.
it is currently used so often because it is mass produced, cheap, and is available with pretty much any radio u can think of.
27. theBankRobber (Posts: 676; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)
When I got the Evo 4G when it came out, I thought it was the best.....until I started playing games on it. The good games ran slow and lagged and emus played good on the low end systems like nes and she's. When my wife got the evo 3d, was thinking how much better the snapdragon would be but it sure fell short of how it rendered graphics. Virtual City, the pixels looked bad and some games didn't run smooth. That was the last time I touched a snapdragon phone.
10. kshell1 (Posts: 1143; Member since: 05 Oct 2011)
well apparently snapdragon is catching back up, i never really liked snapdragon all that much (except on the dinc1 it was great then).
11. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Seems like a good enough future processor for everyone not planning to run playstation 3 level games on their phones.
And I expect it's advantage in power efficiency is even greater, compared to current best chips.
13. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
Looking at the scores, Im calling BS. Look where the SGS2 is. Its sitting BELOW the MDP 8660 which is the dual core crapdragon. Someone with an EXYNOS SGS2 run these benchmarks. That thing is full of crap. Is there a single person here with chip knowledge that thinks that the crapdragon dual core is the strongest chip on the market?
25. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
Well the new dual-core S4 Krait chipset is benchmarking better than anything out right now, again if you are only comparing dual-cores to dual-cores. Now you are right if you are comparing the S3 dual-core to the rest of the competition.
You have to admit the S4 Krait dual-core with the Adreno 225 @ 1.5GHz is pretty sweet.
28. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
I got nothing against it. But its just the first of the new line. The exynos 4212 dual core will be out any time now, and thats a 50%+ improvement over the current exynos by doing the same thing.. shrinking the die. Most every chip is supposed to make the same transition at some point in the year, so if they all get the same 50% improvement, then the 2012 scoreboard will look just like the 2011 scoreboard, just with higher benchmarks (exynos > omap > T3 > S4)
If/when the SGS3 and its rumored 5xxx A15 quad core exynos come out, everything will look like old news, even the current T3.
45. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
I guess the problem I have with your comments is that you claim the 320 this year is a stretch, but you give the A15 quad core Exynos a rumored June release date on the back of a demo of a dual-core Exynos A9 (the 4212) - with only TALK of 4412 for phones. Samsung, in that link, talking about the TABLET 5xxx series showing up this year (nothing to indicate phones except wild speculation)... that said I see your point and I was previously "waiting" for MWC to see the SGS3. However, their delay to 1H makes me disappointed that I would have to wait 4 months to see it! Not good!
47. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
the 320 isnt even on QUALCOMM's official road map. its slated for 2013 release. And if you actually look at its specs, its a "tablet class" chipset.. aka it probably wont be used in phones.
There are 2 different versions of the exynos quad core as well, if rumors are to be believed. there is going to be the 4xxx quadcore and the 5xxx quadcore. So far there is only hard evidence on the 5xxx quadcore which points at a Q2/Q3 2012 release. Which also coincides with the SGS3 expected release.
Its ALL conjecture as to which chip is in the SGS3 until someone gets their hands on one.
The 2nd version of the 5xxx is supposed to be the "tablet class" device" which is where that super high end Mali 8 core capable GPU comes into play.
51. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
The 5250 isn't supposed to hit mass production until Q2 earliest. It seems REALLY tight to fit that into a SGS3 if it is supposed to ship in 1H.
_5250_soc_goes_into_mass_produ ction_in_q2_tablets_get_it_fir st-news-3728.php
Also, it appears to be intended for tablets first. Since the 4412 has yet to appear, doesn't it make more sense that we would see the 4412 quad showing up in the SGS3 (assuming it's a quad)?
Seems like the lack of a good roadmap from Samsung is resulting in a bunch of speculation about them jumping past chips.
59. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
Q2 runs from April to June, which is also the end of the first half. So if they start sampling and producing in April/may, they would definitely have enough for the launch of the SGS3 that will "hopefully" launch around july/august. They have opened brand new factories in 2011 dedicating themselves to making huge quantities of exynos dual and quad core chips.. which is supposed to give them enough to licence out to other manufacturers as well. we will see about all that. right now, other than the 4212 chip, everything is conjecture on release timelines and phones.
16. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
ha ha, why of course remixfa, we take your word over the officially published result, posted by chip maker alone
17. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
when they dont match real world results, i will always take issue with it. You dont have to believe me. Go do some independant research instead of taking things at face value and you might be surprised. Think about this. Why would Qualcomm release "benchmarks" that are not glowing reviews of their products? lol. Its a paid advertisement, and a false one at that. I dont take issue with the fact that the new Krait core is going to be slightly faster than the older chips, that generational advances. I take issue with where all the other phones lie in the competition which makes me question the validity of the over all scores. Qualcoms own estimates of the first generation Krait put it at a 50% power increase from the current dual core crap dragons. That puts it a smidge above the exynos. With a little extra fidgeting they can increase that.
So again, I dont take issue with the fact that Krait is "winning". Of course, that is just extremely temporary until all the other chips take the same generational leap, then it will be back in last place.
23. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
Anandtech isn't Qualcom. They aren't shills. They aren't paid. Anandtech's benchmarks ARE independent research!
If you are questioning Anandtech's numbers (they tested those other phones, not Qualcom), you are really reaching to find a reason to hate on Snapdragon.
Also, I fail to see how your comment that if we wait until all the other chips come out with their generational leap they will beat the S4. They won't come out on 28nm because only Qualcomm uses TSMC, so they will struggle to keep up from a battery life perspective. When the S4 comes out in a month or so, it will be king of the pack on Android, in performance AND battery life - and by a country mile. They'll hold that title for almost half the year this year (maybe 3/4 of it!), so it will only be logical for those who care about battery life and performance to consider this the flagship (I assume even if Tegra 3 is similar in performance it will be a battery hog in comparison). I think the S4 designs will be the phones to choose in 1H this year without much comparison.
Pick ANY chip that is released at the top of the performance hill and wait 6 months; you'll find a better performer. Your insistence that Snapdragon is always garbage even when it's the best chip out at the time is absurd.
They may be behind the times on architecture because they were shooting for 28nm but that's just a strategic decision. You are free to disagree with it, but that doesn't make their designs junk. To claim that they are bad even when they are the king of performance just destroys your credibility. They put a lot of resources into S4, and with their ability to move to 4 cores, crank up clock speeds to 2.5ghz and add the Adreno 3xx, they will be a contender for a good 18-24 months, if not more.
29. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
That is what I say. With 28nm technology the advantages are numerous. That is Qualcomm’s trump card. With 28nm tech a 2.5GHz S4 Krait quad-core running the NEW Adreno 320 GPU will just be a juggernaut to be reckoned with. The efficiency that is gained using 28nm will be a game changer & has to be taken seriously by all the other chip makers.
I think that this year Qualcomm MIGHT be the chips leader in terms of performance for a significant amount to the year, let’s just put it this way the days of Qualcomm being dead last in chip performance is now over, Samsung truly has some VERY stiff competition for the top dog in chip efficiency & performance!
31. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
would u read my reply to your original 2.5ghz adreno 320 comment please :) You are 3 generations ahead of yourself.. lol :)
34. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 4791; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)
No I am not, here is what I see on Wikipedia:
37. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
u should read my reply to your reply. your arguing with a qualcomm roadmap with wikipedia as proof that qualcomm is wrong. :)
33. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
did i say the new krait was junk? no. I simply said that all chips are making the same generational die shrink and thus will get similar improvements, which will make this years score card look like last years.. albiet with bigger benchmarks.
The T3 blows the S4 dual core out of the water in performance. Thats why it wasnt included in the test.. it wouldnt be fair. pitting a quad core against a dual core is about as fair as running a viper against a volvo and wondering why the volvo doesnt keep up.
Choose the S4 if you want. They will be the best chips "right now" because they are the first out of the gate. Just like the T3 quad core is the best quad core chip "right now" because its the first out of the gate. The problem with all that is, that quad cores are getting close to droping from everyone, and they will probably all post higher than the T3. And the dual cores are all about to make the same jump and release (samsung is "weeks" away from releasing the 4212) which all have the same jump.
The best for "right now" and the best for "2012" are nowhere near the same. We are going to see HUGE leaps this year... crazy huge leaps from all chip makers. This is door number 1. I'll wait for door number 2. :)
38. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
BTW Jabber, please read my comment in its entirety. My issue is with the OTHER phones in the benchmark. I have a sneaking suspicion by the OTHER phone's benchmarks that it was not a real SGS2 in that mix, but the crapdragon skyrocket/hercules SGS2 based on its numbers.
I simply want someone with an EXYNOS SGS2 to run the same bench and see if it comes with the same results. That is all.
46. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)
Thanks I see your clarification about the SGS2 versions now. I agree it would be nice to see what chip was benched specified in the benches, and get in the Exynos version for reference if that is the issue.
48. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
just for you, I did ask. lets see if i get an answer.
I wasnt the first one to ask, here is a post from an SGS2 owner
SGS2 results? by monoik on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Did you make your tests on Gingerbread SGS2? I'm getting very different results on Ice Cream Sandwich Cyanogen Alpha:
Linpack single 47.257 MFLOPS
Linpack multi 71.987 MFLOPS
non-cached anandtech.com about 4,5 seconds from touching "go" to the progressbar disappearing.
cached anandtech.com less than 2 seconds.
Stock browser. No overclocking. GT-I9100 Exynos version."
49. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
oh and another thing that makes me question it just a smidge, is my SGS1 gets around 1200 on Velamo. The nexusS which uses the same chip/GPU is only measured at 600
53. ngo2dd (Posts: 896; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Are you using stock rom or are you using a CM7 or any of the other rom because different in value has to do with the kernell and rom. You know that. Those value are all the currect stock rom they have for each phone.
54. ngo2dd (Posts: 896; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Again this is not stock. I don't know if the CM9 browser is the same as the ICS browser. We all know that the Rom along with the kernell can change the value in those test.
60. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
CM9 uses the ICS browser. Im running an ASOP ICS ROM. ( that is a lot of initials!! lol). I was running at 1.2ghz when i got that score, so its slightly above clock speed, but not that much. ICS did not do anything for this phone's GPU performance, nor any other.. so there isnt a big GPU jump atributed to ICS. Yea, its browser is definitely improved though. Test wise, there was an improvement in benchmarks from gingerbread, but not enough to double the score.. not by far.
63. ngo2dd (Posts: 896; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)
Not all ASOP rom are equal. I have an ASOP which give me a loser score then my sense 3.5 rom because of the tweak and the different in kernel. So if you have an aftermarket rom with an overclock kernel then that would give you a totally different score. Maybe not double but damn higher
18. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
ok, then the only thing to do is to wait and see the real word evidence.
making BS comments will hardly convince anyone.
20. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
then lets wait. :) but, if you think my comments are BS, then I dare you to research what I've said and call out my BS if you can find any. Calling BS because I'm wrong is one thing, calling BS because you dont want to hear an opinion that differs from your own is another.
22. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
haha, but you posted a "BS" comment, haven't you? :)
30. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
Find it and prove me wrong, and I will happy announce that i was wrong to the world :)
57. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
to the world or just PA?.. just asking
61. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
ill put my head outside my office window and scream it. :)
69. jbash (Posts: 342; Member since: 07 Feb 2011)
put it on youtube and post link should this scenario happen lol