Mark Zuckerberg strikes back at Tim Cook, says it's okay to make you a product, and that Apple products should be cheaper

Mark Zuckerberg strikes back at Tim Cook, says it's okay to make you a product, and that Apple products should be cheaper
There is a distinct difference in the way that Apple makes its money compared to companies like Google and Facebook; and, recently, Apple has started to use that difference as a marketing point by playing off of the general unease around privacy and personal data. But, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg is defending his company's business model and striking back at comments made by Apple's Tim Cook.

The backstory is that Tim Cook took a jab at both Facebook and Google by saying that ad-supported services were a "ridiculous concept", and that "when an online service is free, you’re not the customer. You’re the product." The haymaker from Cook was in saying that users "have a right to be worried" by businesses that make their money collecting personal data. Unsurprisingly, Mark Zuckerberg doesn't agree with this idea, and hit back in an interview with Time, saying:


It's a very interesting argument, and one that doesn't have a clear answer. We definitely understand those who don't trust companies like Facebook and Google, and would rather protect their personal data. But, the trouble there is that those same people often think that they are somehow entitled to get these services for free by using ad-blockers.

We tend to fall on the side of ad-supported services (given that we are an ad-supported site), because the problem with Tim Cook's idea is that he is trying to conflate personal data with personally identifiable data, and he ignores the benefits to the user of the model. Ad-supported services know about your habits, but common practice so far has dictated that advertisers never actually know who you are. Personally identifiable data, like real names, are kept separate from advertisers. Of course, you have to be able to trust companies like Facebook and Google to keep it that way. If you do, then you get pretty awesome services at no out-of-pocket cost to you. 

What do you guys think?

source: Time via The Verge

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61 Comments

1. Chuck007

Posts: 1410; Member since: Mar 02, 2014

This after he invested in Xiaomi. Coincidence I think not. Anyhow, I think the most important is how Facebook and Google should put it out in the clear what kind of data they are collecting. They are making agreements way too long for a reason and that needs to change.

2. engineer-1701d unregistered

would you rather overpay for a basic iphone that apple controls and can see and delete songs and info u buy,without them telling you and worse yet give them credit card info for next hackers to leak along with home info

6. Napalm_3nema

Posts: 2236; Member since: Jun 14, 2013

You need to re-read the DRM article, because it's obvious you don't comprehend what happened. As for credit cards, has Apple lost them? I don't recall that being a thing.

35. AlikMalix unregistered

I don't think you understood the DRM article. Read the posts - they simplified the point that a 12 year old would understand.

56. SuperMaoriBro

Posts: 533; Member since: Jun 23, 2012

What about the fappening?

59. moroninc

Posts: 193; Member since: Jul 14, 2012

yes fappening was a thing.. tim c00k leaked it

23. Luuthian

Posts: 332; Member since: Sep 09, 2011

In most cases they're just collecting data relating to your habits. Things like where you're located, what products you search for, how often you do so, etc. None of that is inherantly malicious. These companies want to know what you want before even you do so they can offer it to you sooner and better than any oher service. People freak out about this but the core goal here is to these sites want to SELL you things. They're not trying to screen you for terrorisim or something. That's the NSA's job, and they're going to get that data from you regardless. Our personal lives are shared more openly than ever, and so is our personal data. People have a right to be concerned, but there's a difference between collecting passport information vs. knowing how many times you searched for Frozen dolls online. For the gold standard level of services that Google provides, I'll gladly let them see how often I search for Sonic the Hedgehog and what city I do it from. It doesn't affect my life any and the information is harmless. In some cases it's made my shopping easier, especially at Amazon. The only people who need to worry are the people who are actually doing something illegal, in which case you were riding a fine line to begin with. Otherwise there's no real cause for concern. When will there be a cause? When a company does something malicious with the data they've obtained. So far, though, when is the last time Google kicked you out of Gmail because you searched a way to cheat on your wife through Google? They haven't. So why panic?

33. avalon2105

Posts: 352; Member since: Jul 12, 2014

What you say makes sense from your perspective and possibly for a majority of people. But saying only those doing something illegal need to worry ain't right. What if someone doesn't want Google to know they searched for Frozen dolls or Sonic the Hedgehog, and neither of those things is illegal. Also, major point of concern is just how safe is that data. I don't care how trivial something may seem if someone can easily hack Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook and get access to your data it is a cause for concern. And even if you aren't intent on breaking the law, you won't go to police and give them your fingerprints for no reason, so why would you want to share your PRIVATE data with anyone, including Google and advertisers.

58. Enddo

Posts: 53; Member since: May 26, 2014

"What if someone doesn't want Google to know they searched for Frozen dolls or Sonic the Hedgehog" Then they don't have to use Google. This is the same thing that is mentioned in the article. People feel entitled to use services but feel they have the right to dictate what information is passed between user and service. Just like people feel entitled to use those free services with ad blocking software. If you don't want Google to know that you're searching for dolls or Sonic then don't use Google. The same with Facebook. If you don't want them knowing your daily habits and search patterns then don't log into a Facebook account. At all

61. avalon2105

Posts: 352; Member since: Jul 12, 2014

I only used Frozen and Sonic as an example since he/she used them. Also, he/she said that only people doing something illegal should be worried about their privacy. I don't really care about Google or advertisers since I use ad block on anything and everything, but the issue is just how safe is that data from the prying eyes. Google has a good track record but nobody is perfect so security issue still stands.

37. alrightihatepickingusernames

Posts: 474; Member since: Dec 29, 2013

Agreed. my response to people's data concerns is generally "You're not that interesting, and neither am I, Google doesn't honestly care about you." That being said I don't necessarily love the logic behind Google's practices. Although the ads I receive are generally personalized, I am no more likely to click them than if they were not personalized. In fact in some cases I am LESS likely to click a personalized advertisement because I already have thorough knowledge of the product. (A phone for example)

24. TechieXP1969

Posts: 14967; Member since: Sep 25, 2013

Google has placed in the clear what data they take. It shows you every time you install an app, what data is collected. Apple collects data too and uses it to advertise to you as well. When you buy anything on iTunes, it is tracked so when you open your iTunes you see offers specifically related to your purchases. Google doesn't do anything any different. I pay for Google's services by, buy a phone that runs their OS and I buy apps or may in-app purchases. I use Google Pay/Wallet. Cook and Jobs both have this thing where they feel the need to talk about another company simply because they do business differently. I agree with Suckerberg, and yes I spelled it that way on purpose. If Apple were more in sync with their customers, their crap would be and should be cheaper. Which is another reason I stopped buying them. Think about what you use Google for an your question is answered as to what is collected. If you use Google Search, those are recorded, map searches are recorded..it gives them an idea what people search for more to get better cleaner results. Maps to see what areas my need to be more detailed with nearby options for travelers. Music and video are self-explanatory. Did you really have to ask what data Google pulls? All their services mostly deal with search. What do people search for?

45. rob5150

Posts: 183; Member since: Oct 31, 2011

Seriously? Both Google and Facebook put it out in the clear... You know when you blindly hit agree, when you signed up to use their services? It was all there for you to inform yourself. Granted it was looking like 6 pages long of legalize. But, it was there.

51. corporateJP

Posts: 2458; Member since: Nov 28, 2009

This guy is pointing out other's flaws without even recognizing his own, not that I totally disagree with Apple not being saints. His company cost the public millions in carrier data overage fees with the update on their app auto-playing videos in the background (really...how useful is that?) that they initially informed nobody of and then Facebook Messenger crashed damn near every device it was loaded to. Great, you're an inventor, Mark (that stole a good portion of it from his "buddies"). Don't pretend to be an innovator. Go look in the mirror and figure your own sh*t out first, it still needs a lot of work...

3. fzacek

Posts: 2486; Member since: Jan 26, 2014

Lol, great thumbnail!...

14. InspectorGadget80 unregistered

CENA SUCKS APPLE SUCKS.

31. akki20892

Posts: 3902; Member since: Feb 04, 2013

Look.....tim cook is still smiling......beat him up break his neck, Mark

5. dirtydirty00

Posts: 428; Member since: Jan 21, 2011

So basically Mr. Cook is saying "give us your personal info and store your most juicy pics on our servers and we wont give them out to anyone... but we may leak them!"

7. PapaSmurf

Posts: 10457; Member since: May 14, 2012

"We tend to fall on the side of ad-supported services (given that we are an ad-supported site)" Oh trust me PA, we KNOW how terrible your giant ads are when visiting every single page on the site.

15. theguy2345

Posts: 1216; Member since: Jun 24, 2014

It is near impossible on a phone, the things they report on! They need to fix the entire ads on this site because they are out of control

19. uggman

Posts: 58; Member since: Feb 01, 2013

There is no such thing as "FREE" that is only a word without meaning, everything has a price, but what really gets me mad is having to pay for something that i had already bought (DLC, IAP), want to kill of a money making industry like the video games theres the answer.

8. cezarepc

Posts: 718; Member since: Nov 23, 2012

Ads are a great way to get free services. Cook just want people to pay upfront that's all.

10. Napalm_3nema

Posts: 2236; Member since: Jun 14, 2013

Give me the ability to pay up front or pay a subscription over ad-supported crap any day. Ads serve no useful purpose in my life, but they are inconvenient.

20. VZWuser76

Posts: 4974; Member since: Mar 04, 2010

And where does Apple's iAd fall into that equation?

27. willard12 unregistered

How much is your PhoneArena subscription?

29. mishpillado

Posts: 6; Member since: Apr 01, 2013

The problem with payed subscription models is that you’ll end up paying hundreds of dollars a month for using internet, the vast majority of web pages rely on ads to make the profitable, same goes for social networks, apps, video games and so on, so yeah maybe it’s an inconvenient to have adds, and maybe a few like you can pay hundreds of dollaras a month to have all of the internet ad free, but for everyone else it’s a very simple way of getting information, news, entertainment, videos, music and services for free.

49. cezarepc

Posts: 718; Member since: Nov 23, 2012

Leave the guy be, VZWuser76 is having first world problems.

57. iushnt

Posts: 3103; Member since: Feb 06, 2013

I know u feel this way because your are an Apple boy. If Apple takes money but also display lots of ad then also u can't atop supporting it

11. Scott93274

Posts: 6033; Member since: Aug 06, 2013

If you want to know the benefits of Google collecting personal data, then look no further than Google Now. It tells you when you should leave to go to work or an appointment to make it in time, updates you on traffic that might impact your commute, Informs you of game scores, and television programming that might be of interest to you. Flight information... transit information on items purchased over the internet, bill reminders, Where you parked your car. The information Google collects benefits the user, Google, and marketing companies alike. I do not believe that there have been any reports where Google has gotten into trouble about misuse of collected personal information. If I'm wrong then please provide me with a link to a credible source and enlighten me. I would rather buy an inexpensive quality product at the cost of providing some personal information than pay for a product that is grossly overpriced and lacking in functionality of the first less costly option.

34. avalon2105

Posts: 352; Member since: Jul 12, 2014

None of those "benefits" you mentioned never happened to me, and I use Google as my sole search engine. It does inform me on game scores for the games I'm actually watching live and often redirects me to go the wrong way in a one-way street. As for accuracy of their data, Google Now keeps giving me monthly distance walked in miles when I set it to use kilometers and it never gave me monthly distance of over 5 miles which is humanly impossible for a person that is not bedridden. So please what are the benefits for me of Google collecting my data?

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