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Goof by Samsung attorney Quinn allows Samsung internal email to be used as evidence

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Goof by Samsung attorney Quinn allows Samsung internal email to be used as evidence
Samsung attorneys never believed in the old saying that "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never harm you." John Quinn and the rest of the high powered (and paid) Samsung legal team were so scared of the jury in the Apple v. Samsung patent trial hearing a particular internal email from the Korean manufacturer, that they successfully fought to have it excluded from the trial. But when Samsung attorney John Quinn was cross-examining Samsung designer Justin Denison (who was called as a witness for Apple), Quinn accidentally referenced the memo and thus Judge Koh had no choice but to enter it as evidence.

"Influential figures outside the company come across the iPhone, and they point out that ‘Samsung is dozing off.’ All this time we’ve been paying all our attention to Nokia, and concentrated our efforts on things like Folder, Bar, Slide. Yet when our UX is compared to the unexpected competitor Apple’s iPhone, the difference is truly that of Heaven and Earth. It’s a crisis of design."

"I hear things like this: Let’s make something like the iPhone. When everybody (both consumers and the industry) talk about UX, they weigh it against the iPhone. The iPhone has become the standard. That’s how things are already."-JK Shin, Samsung head of mobile communications
While some legal experts called the email a "smoking gun," it merely seemed to show that Samsung was aware of the existence of the Apple iPhone, whose success did seem to dismay JK Shin, Samsung's head of mobile communications. In the email, Shin compares the difference in UX between Samsung's phones and the Apple iPhone as " a difference between Heaven and Earth." Shin writes that "influential people," seeing the iPhone, are saying that "Samsung is dozing off." Shin notes how his company had been following Nokia closely when "unexpected competitor" Apple comes from nowhere to deliver the Apple iPhone. "It's a crisis of design," writes Shin.

Other passages from the memo (reproduced below) include Shin calling the Apple iPhone the standard that both consumers and the industry are bringing up when it comes to UX design. Another line in the email from Shin has the executive relaying how everyone wants Samsung to make "something like the iPhone."

Later in the memo, Shin points out how difficult the Samsung OMNIA is to use and when comparing the 2007 Apple iPhone UX with that of the Samsung OMNIA, "it’s a difference between Heaven and Earth."

Samsung designer Denison, when asked about the memo, called it hyperbole used internally by Samsung and testified that Apple is not always first to market with a new idea. He brought up voice recognition features which were introduced by Samsung before Apple and said that he personally didn't feel "ripped off" when Apple put similar features on its products. He said that if the next Apple iPhone comes to market with a large screen, he would be fine with it even though Samsung's latest smartphones have featured larger screens like the 4.8 inch display on the Samsung Galaxy S III and the 5.3 inch screen on the Samsung GALAXY Note. Denison said larger screens are an industry trend.
"Do you know how difficult the OMNIA is to use? When you compare the 2007 version of the iPhone with our current OMNIA, can you honestly say the OMNIA is better? If you compare the UX with the iPhone, it’s a difference between Heaven and Earth."-JK Shin
It sounds like the cross-examination of Denison by Quinn defused any leanings that the jury might have had reading Shin's email. Still, there was no line in the email that explicitly said that Samsung copied the Apple iPhone, so Samsung might have been worried over nothing.

source: AllThingsD (1), (2)

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posted on 07 Aug 2012, 05:53 6

1. SonyFTW2020 (Posts: 311; Member since: 03 May 2012)

...........sigh, it starts (timon voice from lion king)

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 06:08 9

2. marchels14 (unregistered)

but that is true iPhone was an industry standard and everyone has to make up to these standards if they want to compete in the market the rest is not important.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:40 3

13. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Correct. There's a standard, and then there's above and below the standard. Android and Windows Phone are comfortably above said standard, whereas cheap knockoffs (like the "KIRF" phones seen in Asia which actually are blatant design copies) are below it.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 06:11 7

3. jove39 (Posts: 1976; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

Its like Samsung saying...you made iPhone first...but we'll make better than that and be second!

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 06:56 7

5. bucky (Posts: 3135; Member since: 30 Sep 2009)

When does Samsung start showing evidence?

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:08 8

6. PapaSmurf (Posts: 10457; Member since: 14 May 2012)

When the judge finally let's them.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:16 3

8. Mxyzptlk (unregistered)

When they produce some that's actually credible and not leak it to the public again.

Its not like Samsung can produce much evidence since evidence against them clearly shows that they copied Apple's design many times over.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:20 3

9. PhoneArenaUser (Posts: 5498; Member since: 05 Aug 2011)

It is only your opinion and still not a fact.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:46 1

18. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

It's public evidence, you fool. That's why the email memo is shown above, and why we can view streaming updates from inside the courtroom. It's not a closed court like for some secret trial or one where witnesses might be in danger. Presenting open evidence to the press is perfectly legitimate and accepted by the court, and as the jury members are not to look at news articles or other media related to the investigation, the public evidence shown should have zero bearing on the jurors. None. Zero. Zilch.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 08:20 1

22. Aeires (unregistered)

Broken record. Even Taco changes his comments from time to time.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 08:37 4

23. MartyK (Posts: 947; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)

So what you are saying is the F700 (which apple fought to keep out) came after the iphone?, and Sony-style phone came after? and Neonode N1M?.

Are you aware when these phones surface or are you just repeating Apple claims?

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:46 2

17. dragonscourgex (Posts: 307; Member since: 16 Jan 2012)

When Apple's 25hrs (i think that's the time limit the judge gave them) is up. Then it will be Samsung turn. Then each will have a chance at closing arguments.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 08:19 2

21. Aeires (unregistered)

That would be the appeal process, right after Koh overrides the jury and sides with Apple for the win.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:21 1

10. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)

Awww that sucks, prepare for a bad news. Judge Koh will strike...

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:32 3

12. PAPINYC (banned) (Posts: 2315; Member since: 30 Jul 2011)

Further proof of the degradation of corporate employees; we live in a world where it's not what you can do anymore (and, do it right) but, rather, let's all go with the flow and be politically correct while we overlook employees' errors and give them a second (third, fourth, fifth) chance; as long as we like them and they're part of our inner circle. Oh, and we can't fire them because they have children.

This is where Apple is the true KING (Queen, if you're Steve J), Apple will fire your a$$ the minute you screw up; that's what iLove about Apple, iNtolerance to iNcompetence.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 07:40 1

14. SonyFTW2020 (Posts: 311; Member since: 03 May 2012)

was this sarcastically speaking or what??

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 08:16 1

20. steelicon (Posts: 318; Member since: 02 Apr 2011)

They always say in the industry, "If you cannot be the first, then be the best."

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 09:35 1

24. lyndon420 (Posts: 5002; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)

When does Samsung start bringing in apple employees as witnesses?

Once this trial is over and everyone gets what's coming to them, maybe then we'll see something constructive and innovative from apple.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 09:51 2

25. TortillaSlap (Posts: 43; Member since: 05 Aug 2012)

DIdnt they already have an blurb about this email? So good we had to post it twice? lol

All's it shows is that Samsung keeps an eye on competition and instead of resting on their hands thinking they are great (ahem Nokia, RIM, and now Apple), they are actively comparing their products to the competition to find out strengths and weaknesses. All companies that thrive do this on a regular basis. Thats part of the free market. "this is where we're at. this is where they are at.. how do we beat them?".

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 13:48 1

30. AppleWho (banned) (Posts: 57; Member since: 06 Aug 2012)

exactly, but do not tell that to the local iDIOTS on this site.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 10:32 1

26. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)

This email is very damning to Samsung. Here we have their CEO admitting that the iPhone is a way better phone then anything they have and then basically states we should copy the iPhone.

I've been bashed so many times asked for proof of Samsung copying and now on a daily basis more evidence is produced. If you don't know about Samsungs history this is business as usual for them. They're known for copying competitors.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 13:47 3

29. AppleWho (banned) (Posts: 57; Member since: 06 Aug 2012)

Dude, you are an idiot - you are someone who needs to learn how to read and then report it truthfully.
No where does it say that 'we will start copying APPLE'

They merely state that they will make something like an iphone - no difrerent than any other company who saw the success of APPLE with iphones and wanted a piece of that success with their own version.

Samsung not only did make their own version of an iphone, but they made it much better with an OS that has a much higher potential than iOS.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 18:10 2

32. tedkord (Posts: 14133; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

He said it was better than the current WinMo others they had out at the time. It was, WinMo was pretty being the times (though it did have more functionality than iOS). Write a different story these days, when Samsung's flagship is better than the iPhone in pretty much every way.

And, he never once said they should copy Apple. He said they needed to step up their game. And they did, and they are now by far the number one smartphone manufacturer/seller in the world.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 23:35

33. jroc74 (Posts: 6019; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

"This email is very damning to Samsung. Here we have their CEO admitting that the iPhone is a way better phone then anything they have and then basically states we should copy the iPhone. "

You are truly an idiot and a deranged fanboy. I PRAY the jury arent as crazy as you.

Its seriously not a good look. Are you being paid to post these off the wall comments?

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 11:31

27. lateralus (Posts: 6; Member since: 23 Apr 2012)

This doesn't help samsung a whole lot. Hopefully this will help swing in a new era on how copyright and IP law conflicts are resolved. I love both android and ios devices and own several of each, and honestly i can't see why someone would bash another person on their choice of device platform. The best we can hope for is that the customer wins in the end. If samsung is found guilty, maybe it'll make them even more thirsty to innovate, if apple is found guilty, then hopefully the same thing will happen.

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 13:42

28. AppleWho (banned) (Posts: 57; Member since: 06 Aug 2012)

ok, the email reads 'make something like the iphone' - nothing to this really - Samsung wanted a smartphone a successful as an iphone - they now have - heck, they have now surpassed an iphone...

posted on 07 Aug 2012, 14:26 2

31. johnbftl (Posts: 281; Member since: 09 Jun 2012)

Is it just me, or is this Alan F. writer considerably biased toward Apple? He reports all the negative towards Samsung and then leaves a quick snippet at the end in the form of 2 sentences how Samsung successfully rebutted the claims made by Apple. It's not just this article, but every one he's written the past few weeks. What happened to objective journalism? Phone Arena, you need to fire him. He's killing your credibility.

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