Watch Nokia borrow Apple's rhetoric for the N9 announcement: it feels "supernatural"
1. nothing (unregistered)
will this be sued by Apple too?
7. hepresearch (unregistered)
hmmm... why not? (evil laugh... snort... snort)
10. The_Miz (Posts: 1496; Member since: 06 Apr 2011)
It should considering Nokia can't promote their products without mentioning Apple.
22. hepresearch (unregistered)
Name one mobile OEM that doesn't promote their products without mentioning Apple.
2. cyborg (unregistered)
Victor, why couldn't you just be happy for Nokia and the N9.
3. android_hitman (Posts: 640; Member since: 07 Jul 2010)
because he receives every month a paycheck from apple
4. ilia1986 (unregistered)
"Nokia CEO: Every once in a while a product comes along that changes our perception".
"Steve (in 2007 on the first iPhone): Every once in a while a revolutionary product comes along that changes everything"
So.. who here says that Nokia didn't steal from Apple? Not that it'l help them anyway, since Nokia aside from WP7 is dead...
6. hepresearch (unregistered)
Gee Whiz! Who wouldn't want to steal from Apple? I mean, it is just so tempting! You could make a smartphone that costs you less to produce than the majority of other smartphone hardware made by other OEM's, and then turn around and sell it for more than the majority of other smartphones sell for... not only that, but you can create a huge demand for your new "product" by tweaking a few little cosmetic items in the hardware, tinkering around slightly with the software, and increasing the number, which is part of the device name anyway, by one... people will line up in droves arond your store, even camp out in the wee hours of the morning, just to be the "first" to give you their money... oh, yeah, and you can make all of your accessories and apps both proprietary and overpriced, too. Your operating margins will shrink, and you will rake in the dough like never before!
And then, you can hire the best marketing producers in the world, and the best attorneys, too. Patent your touch screen, and then claim that every competitor is violating your patent... wait a minute, I might as well patent "marketing" while I'm at it, too!
Some day, all OEM's will do exactly, and say exactly, what Apple has already said and done. Apple has set the new standard for successful hype advertising, mass-patent litigation, and device commoditization. As such, they are leading the market, and everyone else is following in their footsteps and picking up the leftovers.
One of my friends once was told that the new iPhone 4 has a Samsung chipset in it. He was a little taken back, but after regaining his composure, he insisted that he had already known, and that it was okay. I asked him why he was ragging on Samsung so bad when his "precious" iPhone 4 had a Samsung-heart... he replied "Just because the Rover has a Honda engine doesn't mean it's as nice as a Honda." Yeah... I'll let you stew over that one for a minute...
11. Bob (unregistered)
I can't tell if you're serious or are you just that stupid?
14. hepresearch (unregistered)
I'll give you three guesses...
24. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
He's a birdbrain. Oh well, that is what jealousy does to a person. He deems the iphone as an inferior device, and yet he recognizes that it sells really well, lol. It does not make sense.
But because he couldn't accept the iphone's superiority, he needs to find an excuse. So he'd say it's all about marketing, lol. As if the others don't know a thing or two about marketing.
35. hepresearch (unregistered)
HAH!!! Hilarious... this makes me laugh, like, a really good belly-laugh!
Not once did I say that the iPhone is inferior. All I did say is that it costs less to produce than most other manufacturers spend on competing products... this is a known fact, and has been posted on this forum before, and on other forums. The iPhone may well be superior, but I am not going to buy something just because it is "so superior". It also sells for much higher prices in general... I mean seriously, $650 for an unlocked iPhone 4? I could buy two, maybe even three, similarly spec'd unlocked smartphones from just about any other manufacturer for that much (if other OEM's will still bother to sell unlocked phones, which seems to be becoming a thing of the past here in the US). Is the iPhone 4 better than all of them? Maybe, but I don't really care. I have already told you that I have no real favorite OS at this time, and the more I see what goes on here, the more likely I am to avoid buying an iPhone.
Oh, yeah, and thanks for calling me a "birdbrain" (you so, so, SO hit the nail right on the head! LOL)
38. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Costs less to produce? Can you give us a breakdown of operating costs for an iphone please, and then with other devices? Is it just like how they said that the ipad is overpriced right? And guess how much they priced their tablets when they came out? Lol.
I know. You probably think that pricing is only based on the hardware? I guess the software is free to make. Also, you probably think that Apple does not spend on any overhead expenses. And of course Apple employees don't get paid right?
47. hepresearch (unregistered)
I actually cannot find the article any more, apparently PA doesn't keep articles past a certain age, and news is apparently unsearchable using keywords and I simply do not have the time to waste in looking for it manually, page by page, even if it is still here. I must admit though, that the article referred to only the hardware value of the iPhone 4's parts, and neglected to factor in the value of the software. Seeings Android is free to license, I guess that would certainly level the playing field a bit.
Uh, yeah, I'm afraid I opened my mouth too soon on that one, so once again I apologize. Open mouth - insert foot! HAH!!!
46. jroc74 (Posts: 5171; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
530 must be 11 years old or mentally challenged.
You are not the only one he chose to make up stuff on.
This person is a serious candidate to have an ignore button on here.
48. hepresearch (unregistered)
I prefer that people think I'm mentally challenged... it's less demeaning than being accused of pre-pubescence. LOL, but seriously, do they have an ignore button here somewhere? Not that I would ever plan on using it myself, but it might give some people here a little relief from my uber-sarcastic commentary...
17. ilia1986 (unregistered)
Wait wait lol - so you're actually saying that the only company that can innovate is Apple?
It's obviously not true, but I dunno.. but hey - I own an iPhone 4 - and it's fine by me.
36. hepresearch (unregistered)
In time, it will be the truth, my friend. Apple will rule the mobile universe (at least in the US) once the patent-rulings and new laws are in place. No one will innovate in the mobile space unless Apple approves, and no one will dare to resist or be different. LTE-Advanced will be the "One" network technology. Apple will be the "One" OEM handset distributor. I'm just not sure if the "One" US network operator will be AT&T or Verizon...
39. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
You got that right. But Apple is not the only smart company out there. HP I believe can compete fairly with Apple. HP now owns patents from Palm, and Palm has tons and tons of patents as well. It's all about having bright ideas and patenting it first before anyone does.
49. hepresearch (unregistered)
Ya know, HP's WebOS is probably the easiest one for me to tolerate at this point... at least the HP Veer is comfortably small. Seriously, though, I am still not a huge fan. And HP might be doing a little better than RIM, depending on whether the TouchPad manages to outsell the Playbook or XOOM. Still, for me, its a big unknown right now.
13. jroc74 (Posts: 5171; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Oh yea...definite lawsuit from Apple coming soon.
25. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
You got that right. All those touch gestures infringed on Apple's patents :)
33. jroc74 (Posts: 5171; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Correction: Apple doesnt have every touch gesture patented. Only specific ones. What are the chances Nokia is using all the ones Apple has patented?
41. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
A big one. But we'll see. That scrolling spring effect looks pretty iphonesque to me, and that swipe gesture, that's an iphone thing as well. And you can tell that they're guilty by insinuating that swiping is a most natural gesture on phones....NOT.
53. TryllZ (unregistered)
If Nokia did steal from Apple then why did Apple pay nokia around $600m for patent infringment...?
get over it, its Apple whos been infringing Nokia's patents to get their business running...
58. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
The licensing fees that Apple would be paying nokia is for other technologies. Mostly on GSM related tech.
5. ilia1986 (unregistered)
Btw sorry for doubleposting but I couldn't help myself.. Notice any difference in the amount of handclapping and cheering in the audience between the videos? Exactly.
Wait - did he just say "Innovate both in the design of the hardware and software"? How a 1 gig processor in 2011 is innovation exactly? lol.
9. hepresearch (unregistered)
hmmm... how fast is the processor in the iPhone 4? Just curious...
16. ilia1986 (unregistered)
In which year did the iPhone 4 come? Just curious...
18. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
So you finally got an iphone?! About time! Its a piece of crap, though. Compared to Android, ios is garbage. Eye candy only. And for all your downing of Nokia and Symbian, it still has more market share than iphone.
20. ilia1986 (unregistered)
Yes I finally, got an iPhone, and no iOS is not a piece of crap, and yes Android is better overall, and No, Nokia and Symbian are DEAD.
Any more clarifications?
30. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
To clarify: Symbian is dying, yes, but not dead yet. Get your facts straight. Nokia? Not dead yet either. Apple will stay alive as long as there are other companies that innovate so apple can steal their ideas. That is why they are paying Nokia, correct? They stole a "dead" companies ideas and patents. And ios=feature phone os. Its crappy and dated now.
26. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Well at least he's rooting for the number tech company which is Apple. While you're being arrogant representing a dying company which is Nokia :)
29. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
Nokia is not dead yet, especially with those payments coming in from apple to help keep it afloat. ;-) And apple is crap through and through. Samsung puts out way better tech and better handsets. The Galaxy S line KILLS the iphone any day!
37. hepresearch (unregistered)
Nokia is... Happy, Happy, Happy (Thud... groan)
42. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
I didn't say that nokia is dead. It's DYING, lol. Those payment coming from Apple will go back to Apple once Apple asks for licensing fees for touch gestures that nokia used for their n9 :)
None of the galaxy phones outsold the iphone4, so how can you say that it killed the iphone.
44. hepresearch (unregistered)
... hence why Apple gave up the fight with Nokia and settled... I'm sure somebody knew that the Nokia litigation would be small potatoes compared to what was coming down the pipe next.
Um... no other individual model sells as well as the latest iPhone... simply undeniable. I still don't like it, though :P
21. hepresearch (unregistered)
Well, the iPhone 4 for AT&T was approved by the FCC in June of 2010. The iPhone 4 for Verizon waited until January of this year. And by the way... the iPhone 4 has the so-called Apple A4 processor... which is made by Samsung. Although the specs were never officially released, I have seen quoted values as high as 800 MHz for the iPhone 4, and for the iPad 2, which shares the same processor, I have heard rumors that it is possible to overclock the CPU... to 1 GHz, maximum, but only on the iPad 2.
The HTC Evo 4G on Sprint's WiMAX "4G" had a 1 GHz CPU... it was approved by the FCC in May... of 2010...
800 MHz Apple A4 by Samsung, arriving in June 2010, or the 1 GHz Qualcomm Snapdragon, arriving a month earlier. Which one sounds better to you?
23. ilia1986 (unregistered)
First of all - as far as official sources are confirmed: the iPhone 4 has an A4 1 GHz processor - the same which is running on the iPad 1. The iPad 1 was released in January 2010.
The iPad 2 - released in march 2011 - has an A5 dual core 1 GHz processor.
As of now - every high end smartphone which has been released in the last couple of months sports a 1.2 GHz dual core processor.
The Nokia N9 - which will be supposedly released in September - will have a single core 1 Ghz processor - or in short - the same specs as a mid 2010 phone.
Now all of this wouldn't be that important, if it wasn't Nokia's desperate attempt to get itself out of the grave, and more importantly - announce that the N9's hardware and software were "innovative". However it is - and they did - and thus I - and many many others - including this guy here in Engadget -
- laugh at them. Because they are pathetic. And people who support them are equally as pathetic imo. Because so far - their support is absolutely baseless.
32. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
Resorting to name calling? Now who's pathetic. And in that article, the writer is not bashing Nokia for not being innovative enough. He is wondering why Nokia won't continue on with MeeGo. Way to spin a story. I have said this before: if you don't like Nokia, why troll their articles? Go somewhere else, moron.
40. hepresearch (unregistered)
In that case, I apologize for the inaccurate information I attempted to promulgate. I think I'll shut my mouth now...
... well, maybe not quite yet, cuz I don't feel like sitting down and shutting up just yet... LOL
But, you know what? Are all people who support a losing team pathetic? I like Symbian S60 3rd Edition for crying out loud... and that was dead in, like, 2009. But I don't care... I don't care if I'm on the losing team. At least I will try to will lose with some modicum of loyalty, dignity, and honour.
50. ilia1986 (unregistered)
That's too bad hepresearch. You CAN switch teams, you know. It's never too late. That's what everyone else does in the business and technology world - if you can't beat them - join them.
If 95% of Apple's retail stores, products, managers and salesmen including Steve would somehow vanich tomorrow - what do you think most people who support Apple would do? They would start supporting a different platform.
Business is now about honour, or dognity, or even loyalty. Business is about opportunities, profit and efficiency.
And yes anyone who thinks that it's better go down with a sinking ship then to jump to a huge aircraft carrier floating nearby is pathetic imo. That's not calling names as it's not an insult imo - it's just how I see it from my point of view.
51. hepresearch (unregistered)
Well, I don't like to ride on other people's bandwagons... or huge aircraft carriers... at the moment, I simply refuse to be anyone else's "fanboy"... I spent years being a Nokia fanboy, and I'll tell ya, a whole lot of good that's done for me! LOL
I just feel like its a matter of principle for me right now. If you can't beat them - join them... I was never interested in beating anybody, and I am sure as heck not going to be joining anybody just because they are the new winning team. All sorts of people here are obsessed with being "right"... rather than spending all my time arguing why my preferred OS is the world's best and everybody should join me, I would prefer to simply "do the right thing". I just want to find an OS that I can like that isn't already dead or scheduled to go away... at the moment, it doesn't seem to exist.
Am I pathetic? Maybe... but that could certainly change over time. I am not so set in my ways as to be unable to change or adapt... at least, I hope I'm not there yet (although some might argue that I'm already an old codger, but I like to think that I can still learn a few new tricks...)
52. ilia1986 (unregistered)
I think I understand you.. We all grew with Nokia phones for 10 years of success or so.. but that just shows that we cannot allow ourselves to get sentimental over one company vs another. A product is a product and a company is a company. Today one exists - tomorrow the other.
57. hepresearch (unregistered)
It isn't about success for me... I liked Nokia's products. Yes, they became successful, even to the point of dominance for a while, but as with all things, everything here eventually comes to an end. I even grew into their new lines of products as they aged... I liked Nokia because they made what I considered to be the most reliable products available, and I have yet to find a replacement that is as reliable. My old Nokia 6010 is still sitting in the original box somewhere (although after eight years, Li-Ion batteries are not as potent as when they were new), and my Mom now uses my Nokia 9300 from, oh, six years ago. My Dad now uses my Nokia 6085 from five years ago, too. They haven't failed or broken yet, despite all the abuse I put them through, and in spite of their old age. They just "don't make 'em like they used to."
All this new-fangled touchscreen gobbledigook... and required data plans for all smartphones, and GPS that cannot be turned off which records my whereabouts 24/7 and stores it on a server for up to seven years... as far as I am concerned, iDon't, and Droid... well, Doesn't. Sorry.
56. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
There is nothing wrong with continuing to support a company that you love. You like apple for its success. I choose to like what I like for different reasons. Who are you to tell me otherwise? And I can take shots at apple all day, like you do with Nokia. Like the fact that Android is crushing Apple everywhere. The Galaxy S line alone from Samsung is awesome!
27. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Hmmmm, the specs of the Evo sounds better, too bad that when it comes to actual performance, the iphone does better :)
43. hepresearch (unregistered)
Even if it is true, and I admit I am not sure entirely, that's still not a huge surprise, though... Android has a huge kernel, and I have no clue how large the iOS kernel is, so for all I know, iOS may be inherently more nimble than a similarly spec'd Android. Just sayin...
8. fdx (unregistered)
Android is virtual machine so it needs more processing power lyk dual core & quad core but meego is a pure linux so it doesnt need such high processing powers...
12. hepresearch (unregistered)
This is where Symbian S60 excelled... a micro-kernel OS does not need near as much processing power as other bulkier platforms. For example... my Nokia E75 from 2009 had a 369 MHz processor, while a friend's Motorola DROID had a 550 MHz processor; while her phone was buggy and lagged and such, my phone could dance circles around hers. Yeah, her phone had alot of high end features back in 2009 (higher Mpix camera w/ 480p video capture, WVGA touch-screen w/ multi-touch, firmly better Webkit browser experience, etc...), but my phone could do things that even hers couldn't (stand-alone GPS mode, document/spreadsheet/presentation editing, Zip file support, Python compiler, nearly endless multitasking, etc...). Yeah, she had more apps and stuff, but I liked mine better. I found Symbian S60 3rd Edition to be exceptionally stable. Even when she laughed my processor speed to scorn, I knew that I could rely on my phone better than she could on hers.
I am not sure if Meego qualifies as a micro-kernel OS... so I do not presume to know whether it actually performs any better than other Linux-based OS's (Android, WebOS, Bada, etc...) in terms of processor usage.
15. CLINTONW25 (Posts: 38; Member since: 14 Jun 2011)
dam didnt apple just get sued by nokia for stealing lol give it a rest....
19. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
And yes, Nokia did just win that lawsuit against apple. Apple must now pay Nokia for every iphone that ships. So keep making that money, Apple! And pay up to Nokia while you are at it!
28. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
But you forgot to mention that Apple was willing to pay nokia to begin with under FRAND rules. Nokia wanted to charge Apple unfairly high, plus wanted some of Apple's tech, hence, they went to court. Apple ended up paying Nokia the fair price :)
I like the way you make the story seem like Apple just wanted to get away with something, tsk, tsk, tsk.
31. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
Apple DID just want to get away with something. They did not want to pay for what they did not innovate. I like the way you apple fan boys try to make it seem like apple does nothing wrong. Tsk, tsk.
45. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)
Oh no mister. Nokia wanted to over charge Apple for those fees, and they wanted to tap into some of Apple's patented techs. Apple said no, that's when they went to court. That is why Apple brought up FRAND. That is the truth behind that settlement. Not covering up for Apple here. Nice try though.
55. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
You are covering up for appple. Steve jobs and his company do not innovate. They immitate.
61. Alphageek (banned) (Posts: 27; Member since: 22 Jun 2011)
Says me and a whole bunch of others, in and out of the field. :)