US Judge rules that Samsung has infringed Apple patents
2. bigboy029 (Posts: 74; Member since: 03 Jan 2011)
Any company would do the same thing. If samsung created a hugely popular tablet, and any other major company created a tablet strikingly similar, they would sue. All Samsung needs to do if indeed their products will be banned is keep the same software that galaxy users love and just switch up the design a little. This is not a business killer for samsung.
3. cncrim (Posts: 826; Member since: 15 Aug 2011)
Well!!! 3 out 3.
Now I do believe Samsung did copy Ipad design on purpose.
106. vmaster (unregistered)
So can you be specific what Samsung copied?? The size dimensions are different, there is no physical button, the back design including camera location is completely different. So is it the color that apple patented?? The curve measurements on the edges, or the thickness of the edge bezel around the glass??? Oh its probably the glass on the screen, Samsung should have used wood instead since that's not patented by apple!
4. goflet (unregistered)
on iphone 4s apple uses notification just like in android.what about that?.
7. Eingild (Posts: 203; Member since: 19 Apr 2011)
Android is an open-source platform, so they cannot sue the hell out of Apple instantly.
8. ivanko34 (Posts: 617; Member since: 04 Sep 2011)
Apple can copy. They did since the first days of apple.
But if you try to do something that looks like an apple product, apple will spend lot of money in lawsuits.
First time in history
Apple is not a cool company and their products are prisons
Anyway it is also the first time they make successful products
They have a long story of failures
So normal they defend their business, its the first time they earn money
42. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Ivanko you embarrass all of Europe
75. Penny (Posts: 1648; Member since: 04 Feb 2011)
Ivanko's kinda right.
Apple does "expand" on other people's ideas, something Jobs did proudly admit in a 1997 interview. Nothing wrong with it as long as it serves a purpose and differentiates itself from the original idea.
Apple's ecosystem is very closed, and the only thing that works property with an Apple product is another Apple product (hyperbole, but you get the point).
Apple has gone through a rollercoaster ride, and they were close to failing until the release of the iPod. They have been extremely successful since.
5. Whateverman (Posts: 3262; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Wow, were these lawyers public defenders, pro-bono lawyers or what? Samsung just got screwed big time, but some of the fault belongs to Samsung themselves. Althought i think the look of the Tab and the iPad are very different, I've always said that those blocks behind the icons makes TouchWiz look too much like iOS. My question here is what is the judge ruling on? The physical look or the software? Either way, Samsung better do something, because they have lost every case since Steve Job's untimely death. Kinda weird how soon after all these judges are ruling within a week or so after. Could empathy be effecting the outcomes? IDK.
39. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Both the software and the physical design look e same. Damn even Samsungs lawyers couldn't tell them apart. But according to you only a moron couldn't tell them apart. These are high priced educated lawyers. Did Samsung hire morons?
I love the excuse that these are sympathy victories. Especially since Apple was winning these before Steve died. Pathetic.
48. hepresearch (unregistered)
Well, by this logic, it looks like Apple will defeat all who oppose it, crush Google and inherit all of Motorola's patents, perhaps also buy all of Nokia's patents, and then they can defend their new-found patent right for the design and sale of mobile phones... they will be the last mobile phone/tablet designer left in the world.
55. hepresearch (unregistered)
Hahaha... Taco, do you really think I am a "fandroid"? LOL!
Seriously, though, Samsung can not pay Apple enough to license the patents necessary to continue the manufacture and sale of the entire Galaxy line, including both phones and tablets. Even if they do offer Apple an exorbitant amount of money, Apple can, and I think will, still say "Nope".
The way I see things going, I think that in the next three years you will find that 1 out of every 2 phones in the US will be an iPhone of some sort. There will be no successful tablets other than the iPad series. Feature phones, as we know them, will cease to exist. Google will be about to divest itself of the Android OS altogether. By the end of the decade, Samsung will be a memory module and integrated-chip manufacturer only, Google will be the search-engine/email/"cloud solutions" provider of choice, LG will be the maker of IPS displays, which will push OLED and LCD technology out of existence, and Apple will, having bought out all remnants of phone manufacturing and patents across the world, be the one and only phone/tablet manufacturer in the world. Samsung will make the chips, LG will make the screens, everything on the hardware end will still be assembled at Foxconn, and Apple will hold the patents, make the software, and ship the devices. By then, Apple will also be able to afford to buy back its own shares from Microsoft, and their unholy alliance will, no doubt, have come to a bitter end.
You want an MP3 player? Apple makes the iPod in many different varieties. You want a phone? Don't worry, Apple makes a high-end and a mid-range variant of the iconic iPhone these days. You want a tablet? Yeah, the iPad now comes in different sizes, too. You want a computer? No worries, Apple makes iMac laptops and desktops of all sorts of varying hardware designs. Need a television? Oh yeah, there is also the Apple TV. Since it all runs on LTE these days, there are two choices as well; AT&T or Verizon... one flat rate gets you your monthly data ration, unlimited voice, and makes sure that your FCC-mandated GPS connection works so that the government can keep you "safe" at all times.
"But I can't afford an iPhone, or an iPad, or an iMac!" you say. Well, if you must have electronics and/or internet, but can't afford Apple's many choices and alternatives of wares, then you might be able to find one of those cheap Windows/"Metro UI" thingies that Microsoft still makes... but it won't be compatible with much, and it will be terribly unstable, and it will be easily hackable... all "very bad" things in our day and age.
79. RageQuit (Posts: 41; Member since: 05 Sep 2011)
That would never happen. that whole scenario is just illogical. 1st lets start with carriers. if it gets to the point where their are just 2 then they will be forced to break apart again bust as Ma bell did before. I highly doubt Sprint is going anywhere, they are currently on a pretty good up swing, gaining customers.
Next computers, Macs haven't been able to pass windows in the past years people arnt just suddenly going to throw out their PC's and buy Mac's. you fail to realize that A lot of people prefer Windows. Sorry mate the world just doesn't work that way.
iPod is already pretty much the only real MP3 player to get but a lot of people are starting to use streaming services on their phones too like Slacker and Spotify. MP3 players are getting less popular now that you phone can do it.
Samsung isnt going to stop making Screen panels, i think you fail to realize the size of the company and large company's don't just stop making something they are know for and get large profits from. I Prefer OLED over IPS anyway.
You are also missing that a massive number of people who have androids got them because they want androids not iPhones, you seem to be missing the fact that many people can choose what they want they don't just dive for an iPhone(although there are plenty that do). android having a bunch of cheap phones makes up for some portion of sales but not the majority.
I cant really make a argument with the tablets, because currently that field is really new and things change fast so its difficult to make a assumption. My guess is iPad will dominate for a while. Although Windows 8 is right around the corner and Android makers are starting to figure out how to market their products to compete .
82. hepresearch (unregistered)
Fortunately, my comment was laced with a great deal of sarcasm...
Yet, I still foresee the market on the carrier end of things narrowing down once Sprint begins competing on LTE with Verizon and AT&T. If the FCC allows the T-Mobile acquisition by AT&T, then I am nearly certain that Sprint will get acquired at some point, as well. In the FCC's rules it is only necessary to have two major competitors on any given network technology... hence with CDMA and GSM we ended up with four national competitors (T-Mo, AT&T, Sprint, VZW)... once everyone is on LTE, we will only need two at minimum... the largest and most set of which are AT&T and Verizon.
As far as Mac's go, I happen to know a lot of people and organizations that are switching over to Mac-based computing. I personally am not a fan, but I have to acknowledge that those who already have Macs tend to stick with them fanatically because they work exceptionally well at what they can do. Windows 8 will further more be afflicted with Metro UI, which is a significant turn-off for me... I will stick with Windows regardless, but I know a number of folks who are making the switch once this comes to pass, if it indeed happens.
Large companies make whatever is in demand, and occasionally test the waters with something new. IF iPhones overtake the market, which I have calculated to be around 74% market share for iOS, plus or minus error range, in 2020, then the likelihood of a company like Samsung, who is getting the crap sued out of them and the potential for their products to be banned regardless of whether they can offer large sums of money for the licensing/royalties purpose, continuing to try to compete in a market where they have been legally excluded by the powers that be is smaller than you think. They will go where large amounts of "safe" money can be made. They will be a supplier of memory, integrated chips and hardware solutions for the companies that do have the established (aka "litigated") legal ability to design mobile devices and software, and they will make lots of money doing that... perhaps as much or more than they make from competing in the current market.
I do have a few friends who will not dive for an iPhone, and go out of their way to get Android devices. I recently helped a good IT-oriented friend of mine determine which phone he should get to allow him to use certain kinds of mods and added features... I referred him to a particular HTC Android phone that fit his needs, wants, and budget, and helped him get everything unlocked and flashed. It has turned out good for him. However, I know very few individuals who will put the effort into Android to make it the way they want it and still get it to perform up to snuff...
My experience is that people who want a phone that they don't want to have to modify, customize, tinker with, or otherwise learn how to use, end up with an iPhone because it just works, and is reliable. I am not one of them...
53. Xpple (unregistered)
Just a minor correction. . .
Some of the most educated people I know are THE stupidest people I know. PhD professors that have been using computers for 20 years can't can't even use copy/paste/cut properly, have no real understanding of what a browser is and what the internet actually is, etc. . . they are "educated" like a parrot and can't even think. Just regurgitate what's been fed to them. . . the perfect apple customer lol
54. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Sure keep telling yourself that while you mow their lawns.
56. hepresearch (unregistered)
Wow, these folks must be really special to you, taco... apparently, all us "common folk" mow their lawns, while they do great acts of service to all humankind by using their esteemed iPhones while we "commoners" languish ignorantly in the brutal world of "non-Apple products"...
Maybe if I get enough money some day, I can elevate myself from the brutal "non-Apple" world to one of "true" productivity and greatness with my glorious and trusted iPhone/iPad by my side...
Oh, my... just a daydream. I better get back to mowing the iPhone-holding boss-man's yard...
L... O... L... ! >8-D
66. Xpple (unregistered)
You may be mowing someones lawn but I sure the hell ain't. . . but way to show what a dip @#@$ you constantly are. Or did I hurt your feelings. . . are you one of those idiots that can't figure out copy/paste/cut etc. . .????
62. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
i'd say they hired Morons because they're pretty easy to tell apart if you at least know what an iPad is and who doesn't know what an iPad is? xD
67. Whateverman (Posts: 3262; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Taco to Apple's rescue, again... Even though Apple isn't being attacked...again! If you hold two iPads up from ten feet away and asked the average person, "Which one is the iPad?", I garantee you that most people will pick one on the other, while the people who are really into tech are the only ones who would say "both". My point... ten feet away isn't how people shop for their gadgets. People are usually more hands on than that, so judging the case based on that just seems odd to me.
Also, I would imagine any good lawyer would study the device inside out, upside down, on, off, front and back to make sure THEY would know the differences between the two devices, seeing as though that's what's in question here!
If I recall correctly, Apple won one and lost one decision before SJ died, but these last few seem to be coming really soon after. I haven't offered any excuses for either company, I just asked the question. If you don't like the question, to bad. Pathetic.
9. bossmt_2 (Posts: 449; Member since: 13 Oct 2009)
I don't think they look the same myself. Maybe it's cause I pay attention to detail more than most, but for starters, there's a button with a square on the iPad, what I always notice as well is the shape and size of the 10.1 androids vs iPad, aside from the physical screen being larger, iPad is not as long (or tall however you want to look at it) and it is noticeably wider. Now I will admit, that with the waste space on the front, the Galaxy probably looks more like the iPad than it does the Xoom.
I also think that it's unfair for the judge to hold the devices 10 feet from the lawyer asking her to say which one is which, it doesn't come close to the consumer process. If you hold the in your hand, taping up all logos on it, then you confuse the 2 IMO that's a great case (though still frivolous IMO)
I just don't buy a lawyer from 10 feet away not knowing for sure which tablet is which is permissible evidence.And yes there are similarities in design, both are square with rounded edges. Their overall approx areas are similar (galaxy around 68.61 in sq while the ipad is around 69.45) But the design isn't patented and the lawyer for apples line about how the reason the iPad succeeded was design. Which is simply not true at all. iPad was a perfect hit, it took on the winning features people loved in the iPhone and iPod Touch. It took the ease of use of the iOS devices, the apps, the games, the web browsing, all of those things it brought to the table that no tablet had brought before. it didn't sell cause it's squarish design
10. kaka (unregistered)
are samsung's lawyers so incompetent they keep losing cases everywhere?
we hear all of apple's cases being ruled against samsung, yet we do not hear anything about samsung's counter suit ruling? when apple file a suit, judges seems to make a decision very quick, yet when samsung files a suit, we hear nothing.
samsung, i say fire the lawyers, get new ones and stop flip-flopping. whatever happened to those 3G patent suit you filed against apple?
12. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Bad news for android. Bad news for android no matter, in relation to Samsung. Why? One they are collaborating with intel and some others for a new OS and two, Bada possibly coming to the states. Three, greater collaboration with MS. Not good signs for Google. Though they now own Motorola mobility. No worries there.
13. bossmt_2 (Posts: 449; Member since: 13 Oct 2009)
Why would Samsung just up and leave the OS that's making them the most money. Sure they'll bring bada and try to work on new OS, but they're not leaving Android. if they do HTC or Motorola will pickup the slack.
14. droidcandy13895 (Posts: 16; Member since: 12 Oct 2011)
how much loss can it cause to samsung.......design apart how does galaxy tab perform ? is it better than ipad.....
15. kenshiro (Posts: 42; Member since: 12 Sep 2011)
This is so retarded. First off, Apple chose a the most basic, minimalistic design for the iPad from the very beginning. It's a f***ing black rectangle with rounded corners, THAT'S IT! How is Samsung or any other company supposed to not infringe on that? Make a tablet fractal? Or how about thay just leave the corners square so people can stab eachother with them. Right? And second, how does the GS2 look like the iPhone? iPhone has distinctly different three dimensional shape. What a stupid ruling.
16. bossmt_2 (Posts: 449; Member since: 13 Oct 2009)
"How is Samsung or any other company supposed to not infringe on that? Make a tablet fractal?"
Unleash the power of the pyramid
17. Guest797392 (unregistered)
18. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
I wonder what would've happened if someone had taken an old HP tablet, painted the bezel black, held it up alongside an iPad and said to Judge Koh "Tell these two apart."
This will at most only be a temporary setback for Samsung even if Apple gets everything it wants out of this case.
19. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
wow.. that samsung laywer is an idiot. Sammy should fire him right away. I'd say, first off, your honor lets make it a fair game, put both on the front page, not one in the app drawer. second, the Tab is a wide screen and a tad longer with the telltale honeycomb buttons on screen, widgets, and all sorts of things that differentiate it from an ipad. Apple is trying to say that they own the rectangle shape, which is not true... nothing else looks the same.
23. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
The tabs might have been turned off and the judge may have hidden the home button on the iPad with her fingers.
It's irritating, but all it will do is drive Samsung to come up with something even more fun that will crush Apple in design and features. They may already have another tablet in the works. At least, that's what I'd do if I was faced with so many bulls**t lawsuits as a company.
40. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)
Hey maybe you should represent Samsung. Send them your trolling resume from PA. I'm sure they'd hire you immediately.
I love how you think your smarter than these lawyers.
59. hepresearch (unregistered)
taco... your fly is undone...
63. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
apparently he is when it comes to telling two Tablets apart. :P
97. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
taco, u must really think your dumb, because if anyone says anything about anyone who makes a bad public decision, you say "oh you think your smarter than them.. blablabla".. Yea, Dell made bad decisions, the samsung laywer made a huge screw up, apple IS evil.... so they must be smarter than you, as you think if they are in power they are infallable... well at least as long as it fits your narrow minded arguments.
the laywer screwed up or is completely blind, and either way should be punished for it.
98. hepresearch (unregistered)
Punish them? No, no, no... in the world we live in today, the best approach when faced with someone who does something truly dumb to their employer, is for their competitor to reward their screw-up... there could be lots of money to be made in the business of being credentialed AND stupid on important, policy-swaying occasions. You are trying to defend Samsung's Galaxy Tab in court... you mess up in a moment of incompetence, and cannot see the difference between the iPad and Galaxy Tab, and have the further gaul to mention this, in view of the public, to the judge during trial... the result SHOULD be that Apple will pay a nice sum to the now-former Samsung lawyer on the condition that they have no further comment on the statement or the issue. Their credentials are not further aired in public view, they retire from law practice for a while, and they happily keep silent and private about their actual incompetence... and sit on a nicely-sized bank account for a while.
This could give much of the public the impression that the lawyer is not as incompetent as they look, and possibly that Samsung has something to hide. It will not be a closed case, but at least it leaves the question open for debate among those who have no real clue, while only the lawyer and Apple will truly know for sure what has just taken place...
Every once in a while, it pays big-time to offer an incentive for silence to a "regarded professional" who made a big unintentional blunder. The blunderer keeps their professional appearance in part among the after-the-fact debaters and talking-heads, while the blunderee gets utterly screwed by the competition.
Samsung has every right to suspend/remove this attorney from their payroll and employ... but remember, we live in the "real world", where not everyone is interested in the "common good". People who, through stupidity or whatever, do anything that may have swayed a big legal decision often get rewarded by the winning team, even if they were representing the other side... corporate sabotage/espionage, legal or not, happens more and more often.
20. arcq12 (Posts: 733; Member since: 13 Oct 2011)
I love the iPad better than any other Android tabs but Apple is not making any sense. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 is nowhere near the looks of the iPad. Ridiculous Apple.
21. dawolf (Posts: 23; Member since: 14 Oct 2011)
so Apple hires a ip specialist and samsung hires a constitutional lawyer who occasionally does ip matter. wtf samsung.
22. Mooem (unregistered)
Ok let me get this straight...
1) The Judge has tentatively denied Apple's injunction request based on the utility patent. PhoneArena's article left that part vague even though it was reported by Reuters in more detail.
2) She has yet to rule on an injunction request for the three design patents but agrees Samsung infringes on them. .
3) Regardless of infringement, Apple's patents are on shaky ground with their validity so an injunction could go either way.
Samsung may still be under the gun but the judge hasn't pulled the trigger yet.
24. chasechs (unregistered)
A question we must ask is, have Samsung won any of the suits filed by apply? No, why? Why because I think the court is not considering the actual users of the devices. They talk about design similarities but only the designers can prove this. What you think the answer will be if they should ask that question to a actual user of the tablets (apple or Samsung)? They would say no. The essence is that by breaching another's patent you have gain financial or popular incentives in the public as a misrepresentation of the patent holder. What needs to be done is proof that these "similarities" in the galaxy design does withhold sales from apple and too some extent preference.
The devices should be given to random consumers, random individual and questioned about their design "similarities". Let the ultimate finale consumer decide.
25. snowgator (Posts: 3586; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Okay, fine. While braving any future thumbs down from Samsung/Android fans, there was always some merit to Apple's claims. The two companies have been hand in hand developing products for so long, Samsung developed a similar product. I can live with that thought.
Now at the risk of of the thumbs down from Apple fans, it is also pretty easy to see that Samsung became so successful at their product, they scared the "i" company into a scorched Earth legal attack as opposed to any compromise which allows Samsung to develop their own product and threaten Apples Golden Cow. Microsoft continues to find a way to work out Patent problems with Android-using companies, despite the fact that these companies buried the Windows Mobile sales and outsell new Windows Phones devices 20 times over. Apple is not at any kind of disadvantage, but can not abide by the thought of compromise when they themselves built off the succeses of other tech. This is just cowardly. Get your settlement, beat Samsung in the court of public opinoin. Beat them in sells. Why try to kill the products and open the door for someone to try and do it to the iPhone and iPad?
27. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Fantastic post. I can see some copying of Apple's design in any tablet (though to be fair their design is so minimalist they've essentially gotten a patent corner on a rounded rectangle) but Apple has swiped so much from other companies for every one of their products that it's incredibly hypocritical of them to throw a fit when it's done to them.
26. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)
lets hope the patents get invalidated for the good of the industry....a judge actually seems to have some common sense unlike the rest this time round.
28. Bryan Miller (unregistered)
Of course Samsung copied apple, they probably thought they'd get away with it just because they were a partner in making parts for apple
Doesn't give them the right to make such a obvious copy
81. Narath (unregistered)
Why no one say that iPhone copied LG Prada?
29. LOLOLOLOL (unregistered)
I still think its HILARIOUS that people defend a SQUARE touchscreen as INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY...
I didnt know patenting SHAPES of SCREENS was copying...I guess EVERY TV maker is copying off of each other...They should all SUE!
Give me a break...its pathetic...
Put 2 46" TVs next to each other and ask the judge to say who makes which...morons
30. LOLOLOLOL (unregistered)
31. box (unregistered)
I think Sniggly makes the best point: apple made such a bland overall design that was already incorporated by other manufacurers (rectangle with corners rounded off, which is a duh in terms of something that's to be handheld for comfort reasons!) of various devices, such as TVs, monitors, prior tablets (tablet computers and UMPCs) not to mention props in movie and TV productions (2001: A Space Oddysey and Star Trek: the Next Generation: just watch S1:E1 and you'll see 2 different examples, and from the late 80's!). Their design "patent" is roughly equivalent if I took one of my drawings of a automobile from when I was 5 (box with wheels with a raised portion for passengers), patented it, then sued every car manufacturer for infringing on the design, and trying to get them to shut down production. Something that's already a standard and understood to be the best design for its field has no right to be patented, and whoever granted said patent should be stripped of such responsibilities and have all of their other patent approvals reviewed
36. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
You did a great job of expanding on my point, Box. Thanks for the mention. :)
32. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
"Not at this distance your honor," lol... Sniggly please keep hoping.. that way when Samsungs,.. I will see you backpedal... like you are custom to do it
35. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
I think you forgot to make any point in that post except to use that iFanboy buzz word "backpedal" and use my name.
So... now that you have my attention, what did you want to say?
38. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
get in the kitchen and cook up number to save samsung..chieg Sniggly?... ohh and get me a beer while you at it.......
33. Forsaken77 (Posts: 553; Member since: 09 Jun 2011)
They're suing based on looks, not the software. Apples' point is that in a store, if you didn't see who made it, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. As an Android user... I think Sammy flat-out copied Apples' products. They made ever-so-slight differences so they could say it's different. But where do you think their point of reference came from? Hmmmm... I wonder....
34. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
wow so now techies know more than lawyers.. this is getting insane... you are not a lawyers.. just shut up , and fix something
72. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
we know more about Tablets than Lawyers.
77. gallitoking (Posts: 4718; Member since: 17 May 2011)
true so when it comes to lawsuits.. the best way to be is as spectators..... Sniggly pops a vein,..... when he sees Samsung losing...