This chart shows why Apple is happy with its market share, and how Microsoft intends to grow
4. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 752; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
You mean Windows Phone? How could you say a growing OS is doomed?
8. chunky1x (Posts: 270; Member since: 28 Mar 2010)
I saw more people using Windows Phone last year than this year. In fact, I haven't seen a person using this since May this year.
10. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 752; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
So, your statistics and observations are more reliable than anything else?
12. PapaSmurf (Posts: 9801; Member since: 14 May 2012)
Not trolling, but WP8 market share declined. PA published the news a few days ago. If high end WP8 models were on all carriers and more countries, it would be higher.
53. brrunopt (Posts: 686; Member since: 15 Aug 2013)
stop looking at a few isolated quarters and see the big picture..
57. PapaSmurf (Posts: 9801; Member since: 14 May 2012)
The big picture is world market share fell. I'm sure you know how to use Google so spend some time and educate yourself. Thanks and have a great day!
58. brrunopt (Posts: 686; Member since: 15 Aug 2013)
Like it does with every single company that doesn't release new devices
It already went down before and got up with new devices, just like i will happen next quarter.. So you can stop with your WP doomsday trolling
11. sgodsell (Posts: 2250; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
IDC updated the stats and Android sold 255 million.
Also WP has been declining and not growing for the last 3 quarters. It only has 2.5% of the market share. With those pitiful sales numbers after 4 years, it may as well head back into Microsoft's womb and get a rebirth..
16. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 752; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
Thank you for providing me a reliable source.
46. Heritor (Posts: 46; Member since: 05 Nov 2012)
The lack of growth is due to the stagnation of Nokia's product cycle due to Microsoft buying them out. Nokia has not put out much since Microsoft bought them out and seeing how Nokia made up 84% of the WIndows market this lull is enough to slow down sales.
I really do enjoy your keyboard warrior analysis but you really need to try and understand the market. The real sin that Microsoft committed was relying on Nokia to dominate the WP sales and spread the OS. In the US alone Nokia has next to zero bran recognition. Sure, the kids who follow Phonearena and BGR may know nokia but majority of Cellphone buyers do not visit sites like this nor do they care. They buy based on what people they know have and what sales presents them.
51. sgodsell (Posts: 2250; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
Anyone on phonearena can just look at Nokia's schedule of devices for this year alone, and can see that it has nothing to do with stagnation of their products. Also Nokia has made up over 90% of the Windows Phone market. The problem is not Nokia. Its Microsoft and WP both that have the problems.
72. Heritor (Posts: 46; Member since: 05 Nov 2012)
Actually, it does. They have 15 phones and of that how many mid range and low end phones are on Verizon? How many mid range and low end phones plus high end phones on Verizon touting ANdroid? Oh wait they only have two WP all Nokia devices. T-mobile has one at the moment... that leaves only Att to fill that void in the US. How many Nokia devices were on Verizon during 2008 till 2012? A grand total of 1.. a flip phone that sold terribly. No manufacturer can pull an Apple and your insistence of that idea is what makes your entire argument moot.
In the US alone depending on Nokia to grow the platform when Nokia again has ZERO prestige in the US is Naive. ANd in the US the best selling WP were the low end.. again why? Simple. Samsung and Apple are established brands and people know what they are getting. Nokia is a no-name brand in the states and abroad it was a brand known for its feature phones. There was a reason why Android was eating up Symbian despite Nokia never making an Android device.
The failure of WP is not enough choice and a single Manufacturer cannot bear the torch. We can look at ANdroid for example.. It did not take off until Motorala, HTC, and Samsung adopted it in mass.
I suggest you take a course in business and learn a thing called BRAND RECOGNITION. Nokia has zero brand recognition in the US and overseas it was a Dying manufacturer who only the Finns and the nokia fanboys talk up like it was some invincible juggernaut.
Show me a brand currently that is dominating outside of Samsung and Apple? HTC is struggling just to stay alive. Motorola was brushed aside and has become a small fish. Who else? LG? SO you have the audacity to say WP should be growing with only Nokia making their phones when HTC, LG, and Motorola have all found themselves unable to make headway with their ANdroid devices?
Let me sum it up to you. People do not care about the OS. Only the small and i mean very small cellphone geeks do. Most people buy based on brand recognition and what people they know recommend. It is why Samsung has toyed with the idea of bringing out their own OS.
73. sgodsell (Posts: 2250; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
Get your head out of the sand. Carriers have to layout their money to buy the devices. Not to mention they have to pay their staff to get trained on the new devices as well as promotional materials and ads. Not to mention Microsoft makes new devices like the 630/635, and 530 to replace the existing 620/625 and 520/521 models. So what does Microsoft's Nokia do? They decide to just upgrade a few specs and leave the ram at 512mb for the new models. Why because Microsoft believes that you don't need the extra ram. So Microsoft has made the decision for us and that's it then. That's part of the problem right there. Microsoft has decided that for the cheaper models that you don't need the extra ram in the lower end models. If you want more ram then you have to buy a more expensive device. This has always been Microsoft's mentality. We changed and made it this way, shutup and you will like it. Not to mention they even nickle and dime you on the Surface Pro's as well. Microsoft's just doesn't get it. People want more bang for there money.
Nokia had the brand recognition, but when Elop arrived at Nokia, then killed all their linux projects meego (joint project with Intel and Nokia) and outsourced symbian. And stickly went 100% WP.
78. Heritor (Posts: 46; Member since: 05 Nov 2012)
Again you make the assumption that because it is important to you... a cellphone geek who follows a cellphone blog and argues about specs that it matters to the majority of customers. Go work at a Cellphone provider.... It doesn't matter to the vast majority of buyers. This crap you bring up about ram.. only a super small percentage of buyers cares about the specs of their phones.. the majority do not care. Does it look good, can I access apps, and the price. If you think specs are important you would never be able to sell a cellphone.
Nokia had ZERO brand recognition in the states. Symbian was dead. It started off as its own Foundation that that was later purchased by Nokia because Samsung, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, and LG abandoned Symbian for Android... Leaving Nokia to be the sole provider of Symbian devices. ANdroid started to visibly eat into Symbians Market share and Meego was Nokia attempt to make an OS to compete with iOS and Android.. However it was in development hell, the cell manufacturers did not like the power that nokia had over Meego so they refused to support it, and finally the Carriers had no interest in Meego.. Nokia's ENTIRE strategy before Elop was to release the N9 in 2011 with HOPES to take back the market from Android with it.... THE N9... They believed the N9 which by the time it was released was out of date and looked the part would propel them into the market.
Here is a good read...http://taskumuro.com/artikkeli
what hurts WP is lack of manufacturers. You can bring up uninformed opinion but all you are stating is that you wont buy these devices because of specs. If specs mattered the Android market would be filled with mainly high end devices but instead it is the low tier devices that dominate androids ecosystem. So your statements of specs equalling poor sales from Nokia is complete and total hogwash.
Go take a business course and work for a carrier instead of posting this uninformed drivel.
54. brrunopt (Posts: 686; Member since: 15 Aug 2013)
stop looking at a few isolated quarters and see the big picture..
70. Liveitup (Posts: 1787; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
WP added more users last quarter it fell to 2.5% because it sold 8.2% at the same time last year, don't let the percentage fool you they are not saying WP last it customer base no they are saying WP grew it customers base but the percentage fell from 8.2 the same time last year to 7.4 this year. Look at your own link.
74. sgodsell (Posts: 2250; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
You need new glasses or something. That or your blind obsession with WP makes you see things that are not there. That 8.2 is the number of WP devices sold and last year it was 3.4% for the same time period. Yes anyone else who looks at the same link will see that you are WRONG.
75. Liveitup (Posts: 1787; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
Last year for the second quarter WP sold 8.2 this year at the second quarter they sold 7.4 which is largely responsible for the decline, the OS during the 4 cycles fell less than 1/10, which reduced its market share. Overall the platform is growing IDC even called it the clear number 3 platform as this quarter is an increase over the last as noted by IDC.
21. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 7030; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)
LG SONY Samsung have to make Windows phone of MS wants to play catch up.
49. justrt (Posts: 127; Member since: 10 Jul 2014)
I think now that HTC is announcing an actual WP flagship other OEMs will follow.
66. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 7030; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)
A water proof SONY WINDOWS PHONE XD
27. NokiaFTW (Posts: 2058; Member since: 24 Oct 2012)
The world was supposed to be doomed in 2012, but I didn't see that happening, like I don't see anything that you state happening for a VERY long time!
67. HildyJ (Posts: 222; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
For those of us old enough to remember, PCs used to be dominated by open source OSs and Apple. MS got in late. Fast forward a decade and Linux and Apple are also rans. Apple eventually focused on the high-end, high-design, high-priced (and some would say over-priced) niche in PCs and did rather well.
I could see a similar situation in smartphones. Sometimes slow and steady wins the race. Don't forget that MS spends more than twice as much on R&D than Apple and owns the enterprise market.
77. michaelny2001 (Posts: 59; Member since: 01 Aug 2012)
Thing is, especially in the US, that low cost carriers have phones for 50 bucks with android on them, so of course their market share will be higher. Lately though i've seen low cost phones on cricket, H2O, etc running windows 8. I think it comes down to licensing...remember betamax (Sony) vs VHS? Well sony didn't want to license to to others to make those tapes so by mojority people adopted them.
Apple will not let LG use their os on LG phones, if they would allow it, and collect royalties, i bet you things would be different, though i find iOS too simple which complicates things for me. I've had both for years, but Android just has more options and wins for me.
2. bucky (Posts: 1981; Member since: 30 Sep 2009)
As long as they are both competing I'm good. I just don't want one os running everything everywhere.
3. Finalflash (Posts: 2134; Member since: 23 Jul 2013)
Seeing as how Android is 85% of the market, their 20% high end is about 16% of the overall market. Apple holds about 11% of the overall market and their high end equates to about 9% of the market. So technically there is double the high end money for android, but just split among a lot of competition (great for the Android crowd), while the Apple crowd has a monopoly in their arena.
24. techspace (Posts: 885; Member since: 03 Sep 2012)
correct me if i am wrong but i don't think android has double the high end money because the chart only shows all the phones that cost over $400, there are many android phones in the $400 to $600 price range but most of the iphones that people buy are the latest ones with more than 16gb internal memory which means that they usually get more than $700 per phone.
last time, they released 5c and 5s, both of them are over $400 but the 5c wasn't really successful and most of the people bought the 5s which costs between $649 and $849.
35. sgodsell (Posts: 2250; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
You are wrong. Think about all the Android flagships out there in the world. Using their stats that means roughly 50 million Androids were high end for the previous quarter sales (19.82%). That's way more then all the other platforms combined in just numbers alone. Never mind the mid range or low end markets, which we know total to over 250 million for Android.
37. techspace (Posts: 885; Member since: 03 Sep 2012)
we are talking about the money earned from the high end market, not the number of high end phones(now anything more than $400 is considered high end in this chart)
39. NexusPhan (Posts: 587; Member since: 11 Jul 2013)
Read the source. He's dead right.
"based on IDC's numbers, 50.6 million high-end Android devices were shipped in Q2, as opposed to just 29.8 million top-tier iPhones"
44. techspace (Posts: 885; Member since: 03 Sep 2012)
as i have said before, we are talking about the money earned from the high end market, not the number of devices sold.
56. sgodsell (Posts: 2250; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
We are talking the same things here. Its just that a lot more money is spread around to different OEMs instead of one OEM (Apple). If you knew anything about Android and its flagship devices. Then you would know that every OEM pumps out at least one a year, and some a couple a year like Samsung, LG, and Sony to name a few. Apple does know how to make more money off of their lower costing iPhone lineup. Apple is great at milking it.
63. techspace (Posts: 885; Member since: 03 Sep 2012)
Of course I know about android and its flagship devices....I like android and these comments are coming from my nexus 5.
You say one a year or couple a year....I would say together, they make countless devices every year....because there are companies like oppo and the others who usually go unnoticed
I am talking about money because that is what this article is all about and that is what the company works for.
47. Finalflash (Posts: 2134; Member since: 23 Jul 2013)
Negative sir, the fact that Apple's margins have been shrinking almost every quarter means that the higher margin products (the ones you mentioned) aren't really selling more than the lower margin products. If the higher margin products were selling, they would at least hold the line but seeing as how more and more iPhones are selling but the margins aren't improving means that people just aren't buying the top priced iPhones. I assume that is why there are rumors of sapphire screens only for the high margin iPhones to give people more of an incentive than just higher storage capacity.
52. techspace (Posts: 885; Member since: 03 Sep 2012)
You are right,the margins have been shrinking but they are much higher than the competition and the other companies are also making lesser money(per phone) than before.
Most of the people don't think 16gb is enough so they buy 32gb iphones and some of them buy 64gb ones.
I don't think that sapphire screens are only for the phones with more memory but if they are, then maybe there won't be a 16gb iphone 6. Instead, they may sell 32gb iphone for $649(unlocked, in us) but since most of the people would be reasonably happy with that much of memory, they must be thinking of making the 64 and 128gb phones with sapphire screens.
60. Finalflash (Posts: 2134; Member since: 23 Jul 2013)
Yes, but you have to imagine that the high end Android crowd also don't buy the 16 GB model only. Assuming they are some amount less than the Apple segment equivalent, it would still make more than enough money. But making money isn't the game winner for the consumer. If Apple reinvested that money in the consumer's favor, like Google is doing with their future tech innovations, then it would be fine. Apple gaining money is the worst case losing proposition where almost all of it goes back to stock holders and legacy products rather than new innovations.
62. techspace (Posts: 885; Member since: 03 Sep 2012)
I am not saying that apple is spending everything it makes on its customers, I am looking at it from a stockholder's perspective.....and yes even android users would like to have more memory but they usually rely on SD card for more memory....and the phones that don't have memory card slots usually come with 32gb memory
5. JnCrls (Posts: 41; Member since: 06 Jun 2014)
The iPhone 4s 8gb is around $450, so basically iOS is high-end only.
7. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 752; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
Yes, Apple sells high-end only devices and didn't make a massively diverse products but still can generate a massive profit.
65. RebelwithoutaClue (Posts: 1916; Member since: 05 Apr 2013)
It's $379.95 on Amazon. So that would make it a midrange phone.
9. timezone (Posts: 87; Member since: 16 Jun 2013)
The windows smartphone has a bright future. It is a great OS and the Nokia phones are super
17. tech2 (Posts: 2976; Member since: 26 Oct 2012)
Yeah right.....Bright future with a declining market share.
18. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 752; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
I hope they could make a big changes and growth with the advent of WP 9. Considering since the WP7, there's no any big changes on the ui element in WP.
29. Felix_Gatto (Posts: 752; Member since: 03 Jul 2013)
No one knows the future including you, unless you're a time traveler.
36. tech2 (Posts: 2976; Member since: 26 Oct 2012)
lel...butthurt ? xD
Did I got your nerve there ? haha..
38. NokiaFTW (Posts: 2058; Member since: 24 Oct 2012)
Let me take this moment to correct you, you wanna say lol, not lel. And why are you interested in my "nerve"? Its like the 10th time you've mentioned it in a reply to me!
40. tech2 (Posts: 2976; Member since: 26 Oct 2012)
and let me correct you on your correction, I did mean lel which stands for Laughing Extremely Loud. Also, its the first time I mentioned nerve today. So dunno if you're hallucinating me or what.
Also, most of the times you don't have anything constructive or of value to add in a conversation. When you've nothing to reply you just go about insulting an individual instead of making a point. Like the one above. If you really had something to say you'd reply me how WP has despite the falling market share but clearly you don't.
Tip: Learn the usage of double quotes before using it.
45. NokiaFTW (Posts: 2058; Member since: 24 Oct 2012)
A teen who uses lel instead of lol is teaching me on the usage of double quotes! Nice!
55. brrunopt (Posts: 686; Member since: 15 Aug 2013)
stop looking at a few isolated quarters and see the big picture..
59. Liveitup (Posts: 1787; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
Butt hurt Much WP sold an additional 7 million last quarter even though the transfer was taking place. WP at this moment has more users than ever before, of course its growing. Different stats also confirms this.
61. nasznjoka (Posts: 376; Member since: 05 Oct 2012)
yeah and 20million last year model of wp are collecting dust around the globe
64. Liveitup (Posts: 1787; Member since: 07 Jan 2014)
Where did you get your facts? that's more likely Samsung devices. They fell way more than WP last fiscal quarter of this year compared the same time last year, they are infact the largest Android manufacturer. They sell way more devices than Windows Phone , according to ignorant minds like Sgodsell etc that must mean that their is a problem with Android Platform and Google.
14. TylerGrunter (Posts: 1310; Member since: 16 Feb 2012)
Excellent article and analysis Michael.