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Samsungs's experts say under oath that Apple's patents are not as valuable as Apple thinks they are

Posted: , by Alan F.

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Samsungs's experts say under oath that Apple's patents are not as valuable as Apple thinks they are
The second Apple-Samsung patent trial continued on Friday, with Samsung lawyers trying to put on testimony that shows that Apple's patents are not valuable. While Apple seeks $2.2 billion from Samsung for allegedly infringing on Apple's patents, Samsung says that Apple is exaggerating the value of its intellectual property. The five patents that Apple claims that Samsung used illegally involve "slide-to-unlock", "unified search", "data identifiers", "background identifiers" and "word prediction."

On Friday, Samsung called NYU professor Tulin Erdem to the stand, and his testimony was that Apple was relying on a flawed analysis by John Hauser that inflated the amount of the damages that Apple is seeking from its rival. The professor says that the study includes features that most consumers aren't even aware of. These features do not drive demand, according to Erdem. Hauser's study, which Apple presented earlier in the trial, claimed that these consumers are willing to pay $32 to $102 for the features covered by Apple's patents. "You are elevating artificially the importance, the value of these things," the professor said. "They are not even in the radar screen of consumers. These are very granular...and they wouldn't drive demand."

Erdem testified that she used eye-tracking studies to determine which phones people would buy. She discovered that people won't select a particular smartphone based on minor things. "It was the major things that drive demand," she said. On cross-examination, Apple tried to discredit Erdem's testimony by saying that her study failed to include such features as the processor, on-screen QWERTY and GPS. But another Samsung expert earlier on Friday, criticized Hauser's study for Apple, for failing to include the same exact things.

The Samsung expert who shot down Hauser's study was David Reibstein, professor of marketing at Wharton, who said that the study also did not take the brand of phone into consideration. Reibstein said that there are several factors that drive a consumer to buy a particular phone and none of them relate to the patents that Apple claims were infringed on by Samsung.

Closing arguments are expected on April 28th. After instructions from Judge Lucy Koh, the trial will be turned over to the jury.

source: Recode, CNET via AppleInsider

134 Comments
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posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:41 9

1. Altair (Posts: 367; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)


"Samsungs's experts say under oath that Apple's patents are not valuable as Apple thinks they are"

Under oath I say, that Shamesung word is worthless, as are morale. Just a punch of copycats. Lets hope, a trial punish them hard.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:48 48

2. YodhaMali (Posts: 49; Member since: 05 Jan 2013)


Apple is no less of a copycat, my friend.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:43 21

28. DCSeerIvan (Posts: 35; Member since: 14 Apr 2014)


apple upgrade their phones by making it tall.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:57 9

34. vincelongman (Posts: 5043; Member since: 10 Feb 2013)


http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/04/apple-reveals-new-password-gesture-process-to-strengthen-the-authentication-process-of-future-idevices-and-macs.html#more
Apple tried to patent the android pattern unlock (at sure who used it first, but defiantly someone before Apple)

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 20:47 1

80. DCSeerIvan (Posts: 35; Member since: 14 Apr 2014)


But nokia are the best :)

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 21:08 2

88. Dastrix (unregistered)


Well said! No one can sue Nokia.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 03:35 1

98. sbw44 (Posts: 433; Member since: 04 Dec 2012)


When was the last time anyone sued Nokia? I'm curios.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 16:50 25

4. bbblader (Posts: 590; Member since: 24 Oct 2011)


Everyone copies. Sad part is,that Samsung hasn't copied iPhone in a looong time. They stopped after Samsung Galaxy S OG

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:14 7

7. Sauce (unregistered)


Samsung spends more time advertising about the iPhone than they do making a better phone.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:22 12

13. willard12 (unregistered)


That's bad for Apple considering the Galaxy S4 and 5 costs 20% more to make than the iphone.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:29 5

16. Sauce (unregistered)


I don't care how much money a company uses to make a phone. If I like it, I'm going to buy it. Lol.

I'm sure the general public doesn't give a rats buttocks either.

Point being in post 7: Samsung just brightens up Apples eternal spotlight. If they were confident in making a great phone, they wouldn't need to market in a way which needs to shoot down #1. Their insecurities can't be more clear than that lol.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:33 18

20. PBXtech (Posts: 1032; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


Like how Steve Jobs talked about Android all the time.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:39 2

24. Sauce (unregistered)


Google employees are always talking about iOS. Vice versa.

You don't see them spamming advertisements about each others phones like Samsung lol.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 17:49 14

31. PBXtech (Posts: 1032; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


Marketing, and very effective marketing at that. It's business. If you're an Apple fan, I can see how that would bother you though. It bothered the Apple execs too.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:19

37. Sauce (unregistered)


Apple and Samsung fan. Ironic huh.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:25

40. PBXtech (Posts: 1032; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)


You? Personally, I don't use either one's products.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:33

45. Sauce (unregistered)


I love both my devices due to their classy and sexy looks. iOS and Android. Best of both worlds.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 02:04 7

97. willard12 (unregistered)


"Samsung spends more time advertising about the iPhone than they do making a better phone."

"I don't care how much money a company uses to make a phone."

It's hard disagreeing with people who don't agree with themselves.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 10:55 2

111. Taters (banned) (Posts: 6474; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


You should care. I don't like being ripped off so knowing how much each company spends on their customers shows me how much each manufacturer rips me off.

Samsung rips me off the least which is nice to know. Apple on the other hand with their 20 billion in the bank and STILL raising prices and STILL insisting on reducing the ram from 16gb to 8gb in order to drop the price should tell you all that you need to know.

Yes, if you were a smart shopper, you should care. Lol

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 18:49

130. BRYLYNT (Posts: 83; Member since: 09 Nov 2013)


im sure you mean internal memory and not ram. They are two very different things. Not trying to be a prick just saying.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 20:09

131. Taters (banned) (Posts: 6474; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)


Yes that is what I meant. My bad. We all know Apple wouldn't give us more than their standard 1gb of ram unless they raise the price by $20 dollars though.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 19:06 2

57. InspectorGadget80 (unregistered)


And Apple makes the same rectangular patent phone every year.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 18:33

46. Sreddy (unregistered)


LOng time :/ really.. why was the s5 in gold and with fingerprint scanner .. why wasnt it put in previous flagships before 5s.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 19:19 3

58. tedkord (Posts: 13810; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=28658

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 06:10

100. Sreddy (unregistered)


are they the flagships?
there was no gold option on s3 or s4 nonetheless but since after iphone used this scheme, magically they added to s5! they just wait to copy others.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 08:08 2

106. tedkord (Posts: 13810; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)


The ever moving goal posts. Show you a gold flagship, and that won't count because it doesn't have the power button on top.

Apple was not the first to do a good phone. Not by a long shot. They copied the idea. That's the end of the story.

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 13:27 1

125. willard12 (unregistered)


Can't wait to see your comments when a large screened iphone is introduced. I wish I could have seen your comments when iphone got pull down notifications, command center, 4g lte, wallpapers, and answer a call with a message.

posted on 19 Apr 2014, 20:25 5

72. shuaibhere (Posts: 1986; Member since: 07 Jul 2012)


Ah....are you guys illiterate or what????
Dunno the difference between copying and competition????
samsung has been making golden galaxies before ip5s....
and fingerprint sensor is not from apple...both buy from others.....
and if this is a copy then....increase in screen is a copy....and what will you say about ios7???

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 06:15

101. Sreddy (unregistered)


whats copying and competition then?
Fingerprint is not from apple, i agree, both buys from others, true that, but why the delay with samsung? they are so fast to change, couldn’t they just do it before iphone does :/ the courts doesn’t just foolishly decides that yes samsung has to pay to apple for infringing patents

posted on 20 Apr 2014, 06:51 2

105. jroc74 (Posts: 6019; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


If thats the case...why did Apple wait til after Motorola did the fingerprint scanner on the Atrix then?

Why did Apple wait til other Android phones, tablets do LTE first then?

Why wait to do a bigger iPhone and smaller iPad?

What about all the features from other OS's that was added in iOS 6 and 7...?

....see how flawed that logic is?

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