Elop chose Windows Phone because it gave Nokia a "key point of differentiation"
1. Ruckus posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:31 21 0
The Lumia models are selling quite well as of late. I hope it helps Nokia in the long run. I'm quite impressed by my wifes Lumia 822 and it's not even a flagship model. I just hope Sprint picks up Nokia Lumia models eventually.
3. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:36 3 19
They would... If that Microsoft woops I mean Nokia CEO would step down and leave some more capable of taking decisions in marketing And production
42. -box- posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:02 14 9
Nokia is still relevant.
Nokia is profitable.
Nokia is still a known name selling about a hundred million phones yearly worldwide.
Nokia's stock keeps climbing.
Nokia is still being talked about.
Nokia still makes the best cell phone devices (regardless of OS) in consumer-grade mass production in the world.
Nokia is doing fine with Elop. You're just the peanut gallery, and your persistent whining has become tiresome. Android is the new ios: very popular, but hardly satisfactory once something newer has come out and lacks the flaws of the prior offerings. Yes, WP may bit be open source and all that, but the regular consumer couldn't give half a thought to that, as they want a phone that 1) works as a phone 2) works as a media device 3) works as a pocket computer with internet access 4) is cost-effective 5) lasts the length of the contract with minimal - if any - flaws or annoyances and requires little maintenance or learning on the owner's part, much like how car owners will bother with oil changes and tires, but as soon as major components start to fail they start shopping for a replacement.
Android does not and cannot provide the stability and excellent user experience Nokia expects to offer its customers and that its customers demand of it, not until a major overhaul takes place (that is, nixing the JVM and having it run on the pure kernel), and in the meantime, WP gains market share and consumer confidence.
That said, I hope Android remains a strong force, as choice is good, but it is long in the tooth and needs a bones-up revamp. I would gladly see WP take all of ios' market share, let Android keep doing its thing, give Blackberry and maybe Tizen a piece if the our until the next great mobile OS comes out (though I doubt that will happen as Microsoft is intent upon mobiles and computers being almost interchangeable, a great strategy I conceptualized years ago)
48. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:14 3 5
Nokia is relevant because of its market share, profitable because of all the years being king of the phone world, none of Elops efforts have brought any fruit just yet, and dude have you honestly seen Symbian, back in the day it was a good Is but its was the most similar to android in those terms, so I'm not buying that "excellent user experience" thing just yet, now was it so hard for them to take android as their side project or emergency boat? They can do that. He is not doing it simply because he doesn't want to.
55. -box- posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:32 5 1
For all we know there may be some Nokias running Android kicking around their R&D labs, but it would be unwise for them to make that info public, as investors would back off (Android is only significantly profitable for Google, Microsoft, and Samsung, and the component manufacturers), Microsoft would be mad and stop the payments, and it could hurt device sales, which is what Nokia needs. Not only that, they still have ties to Vertu (now making an Android model) and Jolla (Sailfish), and may have secret arrangements with those teams if WP doesn't go the way it is trending. Android won't be around forever, nor will WP, but I think Nokia has the right idea pushing a mass-consumer appeal system with great hardware that has a strong future rather than relying on everyone else's limited successes with an already very-aged system.
We can always be thankful that at least they aren't apple.
58. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:45 1 5
Its why I think Elop made a mistake when it provided the MS agreement, it could turn into a double edged sword for them, they could have agreed on something else (or at lest I feel they could) now it could be very hard for them to try and I think is why he keeps repeating himself that every time he gets an interview... Witch I consider its annoying (as if he doubted his own Thoughts from time to time, or at least I think he does). We can't change the past thought, but I feel they could try and measure if they can squeeze one in, see how it turns. I remember saying he should have tried android since 2.3 yet he stood and said meego and symbian are the future of Nokia, that turned out quite well I guess ... So its hard for me to buy what he says, I really love Nokia hardware, but there are things that I like how they work on android.
Also MS Can be quite tricky... What happens when they develop the surface like smartphone? Then what waters will Nokia swim to? Don't know if that rumor got busted, but I would be worried if the company I made a deal with is looking to sell its own product and compete with me
61. Bernoulli posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:49 2 2
...vertu belongs to a different company and Jolla is it's own company, created by people Elop fired
101. -box- posted on 03 Mar 2013, 08:52 1 0
I am aware they are separate, but the point I was making was that there may be some behind-the-scenes agreements to bring them back into the fold
111. Bernoulli posted on 03 Mar 2013, 12:17 0 0
There aren't, the only thing nokia can do is develop the platform and also develop their apps further, I see how in the 720 there is a development on the nokia city lens, that could be a strong selling point, but as far as the ui goes not many people like it, plus it sucks they don't have all my banking apps like capital one and discover, I would've totally gotten a lumia 920 but that was also a deciding factor, so until those 2 major banking apps become available it's a no no for running my business
60. Bernoulli posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:48 1 6
Um not to upset you, but the latter profit is mainly due to nokia selling their headquarters and massive layoffs, along with moving production to China, outside I don't think q4 2012 results would've been much in the green area, especially when comparing those results to q4 2010, Heck even Acer has a bigger profit margin than nokia, but I do hope and still support nokia, I work at t-mobile and I promote And lock people in to our lumia 810 like it's no tomorrow, Heck today was my day off and I still sold a lumia, so Pat my back if q1 2013 results are strong for nokia. And while I don't own a lumia the device the lumia 720 sure looks promising, but not sure if I'm ready to leave my note II yet.
69. UrbanPhantom posted on 03 Mar 2013, 00:58 4 2
You're forgetting that some of their so called losses in 2012 are actually "one time" restructuring expenses. Nokia has more going for it now than it did two years ago. I'll agree the NOTE II is nice, but then it's also a phablet, and not really a pocket device. After Windows Blue is released, you might see Nokia release it's own Phablets as well, and then we can judge and compare directly...
63. thelegend6657 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:52 0 2
The thing about windows phone is , they all perform just as well .
Thats why , I would not spend rm2000 on a Lumia 920.
But if I am looking for a mid range phone like a HTC 8x for rm1500 , why not ?
74. UrbanPhantom posted on 03 Mar 2013, 01:30 9 1
HTC 8x has an inferior camera, primary display screen, and is less durable. Do and think what you like, but the Lumia 920 is a better phone.
81. thelegend6657 posted on 03 Mar 2013, 03:25 0 1
I know its a better phone . But for 2K the Lumia 920 is too expensive considering that the GS3 is rm350 cheaper . And for that price you could get a xperia Z or HTC butterfly .
But for performance , even a Lumia 620 is so snappy and smooth
95. dexter_jdr posted on 03 Mar 2013, 08:25 2 0
i think you got robbed. lumia 920(32gb) is cheaper than htc 8x (16gb).
98. Just_a_boy posted on 03 Mar 2013, 08:40 1 0
Only on contract, but SIM-FREE unlocked lumia is about R$250 more expensive than HTC 8X here in Brazil (HTC devices are imported, and only Geeks buy HTC here, their phones are not sold here on any carrier), Lumia 920 is 2000 reals (1010,00 dolars) and the HTC 8X is 1750 (889,00 dolars)
135. thelegend6657 posted on 04 Mar 2013, 03:58 0 0
True , its because of AT&T subsidy that Lumia 920 is cheaper .
The 8x is about the same price as the 820 and its way better
136. thelegend6657 posted on 04 Mar 2013, 03:59 0 0
All you ignorant and stupid Americans
2. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:33 5 9
Yeah let's join MS because HTC, Samsung, LG are building android phones and failing, instead we build windows phone devices witch these companies also build and are failing to sell...
That'd a load of bull **** every major company making android phones is also making windows phone (except Motorola for obvious reasons and Sony for obvious reasons) and you are telling me they can build some sort of differentiation with this? HE knows a lumina 920 with android would be selling like hot cakes, he just think that by saying that he would eventually convince himself of his foolish decision Of not going with both
4. Ruckus posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:46 6 4
Im not denying the fact that their Lumia models would sell well using Android. Im sure they would, however with that being said, Android tends to be very buggy and crashes far too much. Windows Phone impresses me by not crashing and being much faster. Not to mention although they have less Apps, the Apps they have seem to be much better, and they've built a lot of apps in a short amount of time.
I sell Cell Phones with 11 other people. 2 years ago probably 8 of the 12 of us preferred iPhone over Android. Last year I could say the exact opposite. Now of the 12 of us, 5 of us either have or want Windows 8 phones over Android or iPhone. We have a couple GS3 users on at&t that regret not getting Lumia 920s.
That being said it will take more time for Windows to adopt more but its growing and I wouldn't be surprised to see them take 1/3 of the smartphone base within the next 2-3 years.
16. Whateverman posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:09 8 6
Where are guys getting these buggy Androids that crash a lot, from 2009? I haven't seen a crash on a Andoid device in about 2 years, yet I keep hearing about them from non Android users and people who just don't like Android. Face it guys, it's popular because it's a great product
19. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:15 7 1
Actually, I can admit that some of androids success can be attributed to being less expensive. However, that doesn't mean "cheap" or "crap" like some here seem to act like.
Also, I have to agree, I have no idea where these supposed crashes come from. Mine has "crashed" once in three months. But, that was a "rom" issue, not platform issue.
89. faisal8708 posted on 03 Mar 2013, 05:11 2 0
Android hav gained market share due to less expensive devices u might not hav used any but i hav thr experience is less than those of Asha's try using them u will understand wht i m sayin. My GS3 hav crashed 5 to 6 times in the past 8 months twices after gettin jellybean once while i was tryin to make a call dont get me wrong android is a great OS but it has its cons
23. Ruckus posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:28 4 3
@Whateverman no joke while I was trying to post a comment my phone restarted itself.. Stupid Photon!!
Anyways long story short we sell Hundreds of phones a month. By percentages the iPhone is far less faulty then Windows Phone comes in second. Sure there are Android devices better than others but the GS3s we sell and Note IIs crash more and often are far more defective than iphones or Lumia models.
But hey im glad you live in a fantasy world where Android is perfect and never crashes. When in all reality based on the percentages its probably in 3rd place of the 3. Good luck with that :-)
32. Whateverman posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:46 3 0
Ah, Motorola?!? Oh yeah, anything with th Motorola logo on it is bound to fail! I love their build quality, but they are the absolute worse at software!
My iPad crashes at least 5 or 6 times a day, so iOS being the most stable... Not hardly. PA even wrote an article on how iOS crashes more than Android.
Last but not least, this fantasy world you think I live in... You're really reaching right now, and it's just plain funny. You're taking it kinda personal, so how about I just bid you a good night.
34. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:48 0 0
I dont know I own a photon, maybe its because of the ROM but it doesn't crash as this guy seems to say...
36. Ruckus posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:50 0 0
I just preach what I see brotha! Have a good night tho man!
33. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:47 0 0
Could this issue be related with that fatal bug on the exynos? Instead of Android?
85. JunkCreek posted on 03 Mar 2013, 04:30 0 0
u buy a wrong phone, mate. using cheapest samsunged androided phone galaxy y, and it almost never, rarely crashed. i'm not regular smartphone user. installing these and those, uninstalling, messing around with the systems and roms even underclock or overclocking. got issues when i'm using custom rom, so i switched back to stock. so my xperia mini pro and arc, they are rarely crashes or restarted it self. i'm doing nothing but messing around the setting, but the phone seems to working fine. never ever i had to do a factory reset except for my chinese cheapest tablet a13 allwinner because of its hardware build issues that i thought it was a software issues, after a fix of snaping touch screen, the issues is gone.
35. applesauce posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:49 10 0
No phone or device is perfect.
A coworker's Note II crashes about 4 times per day, whereas an old T-Mobile G2 I use for a workout mp3 player hasn't crashed yet this year. My Lumia 900 hasn't yet crashed in the 11 months I have owned it, though it has had hang-ups with some apps which take a few seconds to sort out, and Facebook is always buggy as hell whether through the app or through Internet Explorer, though it is fine on Nokia Xpress.
39. Whateverman posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:56 3 0
Thank you! That's the bottom line here, nothing is perfect and my experience my be different from someone else's.
44. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:05 1 0
Also Facebook app suck everywhere people better of with a 3rd party app to manage their feeds... On any OS
47. -box- posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:14 1 0
Right on, applesauce. I haven't had any issues with my Lumia 900, but I had such awful experiences with 3 separate Androids (a G2 as well, a Sensation, and a Viewsonic gTablet) I turned my back to it completely and committed myself to Symbian and Windows Phone, and have been so overly satisfied I wouldn't dream if switching to anything else anytime soon.
In contrast, my wife, brother, and two sister-in-laws all had Sensations, and for the first few months they really liked them, then annoyances and crashes started occurring more frequently than could be ignored, and full system crashes, it launcher restarts, or 2-hour battery life (it, my favorite, running out of charge from full WHILE PLUGGED IN with only factory apps installed). My wife and one sister-in-law went for the Galaxy S3 with improved results (still crashing but not as badly and faster recovery, probably thanks to touch wiz versus Sense), my brother got an unlocked Atrix (1st-gen) and loves it, and the other sister-in-law just warranties her Sensation for another, but will likely switch to Windows Phone of they get the same games she likes.
All that aside, and as applesauce stated, there can not be a crash-free system while there are third-party apps able to run on it, and the hardware is proven tinwork together and battery tech improves more (though it has made great strides this last decade).
50. -box- posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:19 0 0
Some of the "it"s in the second paragraph should read "or". Silly autocorrect.
51. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:21 2 0
A perfect OS does not exist, what looks broken for one person might be good for another. Diversity is a great thing
29. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:45 4 1
I've heard that same android crashes story, guess what it was proven to crash less than iOS, it was just a way for iOS fanboys to feel good but the fact is something else. Sorry unless you can prove that with facts I'm not buying it.
I've heard that "we have people that regret things" yet I've seen various iOS and windows phone users going android. It goes both ways.
Also I think people have the wrong idea I want Nokia to use both, if people want to buy a lumina like "crappy" android phone then guess what? They can... But its not happening because of them not wanting to, not some guy excuse for "a sea full of Android" Nokia is not some brand new company they can get bank by playing both games
43. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:03 1 1
91. faisal8708 posted on 03 Mar 2013, 05:36 1 0
Every OS crashes and almost with the same ratio but wht matters is how it deals with crash iOS brings u back to the app drawer and WP8 becomes jittry for a few seconds and then goes back to normal but android becomes unresponsive and thts wht frustrates most of the people
116. jroc74 posted on 03 Mar 2013, 13:53 0 0
iOS bringing you back to the app drawer and Android being unresponsive....
Its equivalent to turning Windows Error Reporting on and off. Its not instantaneous on iOS....and the force close message eventually shows up on Android.
After you hit force close...Android is back to normal. If you chose wait...then thats different. Just like on Windows desktop OS.
134. faisal8708 posted on 04 Mar 2013, 03:26 0 0
"and the force close message eventually shows up on Android"
It takes along time to come
138. jroc74 posted on 06 Mar 2013, 19:44 0 0
You left this out:
"Its not instantaneous on iOS"
Its a different side of the same coin. It took at least 2 minutes for an iOS error to kick back to the home screen when a co worker was showing us clips of his kids school play.
Ony difference is its no error messge on iOS. And I have seen it vary with Android. Some times it happens fast, sometimes it doesnt.
139. jroc74 posted on 06 Mar 2013, 19:49 0 0
I have an app...that I can make force close. Its something wrong in the Settings of the app. The force close message always shows up fast.
Maybe because I know how to make it happen, it shows up fast..... dont really know.
5. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:47 2 3
No, he says this because he is a former MS employee. Nokia is/was stupid for hiring him. It's too late now, but I can say with full conviction, I would buy an Android Nokia the minute it came out. He is MS though and though, and by limiting them to one platform, he seriously holding back the potential of the company. I'm not saying WP is just outright bad, but I know many people that will not buy it because of metro. I also don't see WP being the "third" major platform. I could see BB making a comeback before seeing WP making major gains in market share. It is really sad seeing such a great product being held back, IMO.
57. -box- posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:41 0 0
There are lots who would buy Nokia Androids, but 1) would they be profitable for Nokia? 2) would they be as reliable as Nokia wants them to be for its customers? 3) would they produce enough to meet demand, intentionally under build, or perhaps overbuild and flood the market? 4) would folks cross-shop a Nokia Android without the known "droid" or "galaxy" branding now on consumers' minds? 5) What, other than cameras, would set Nokia apart, and are those cameras even functional on Android? 6) Nokia developed MeeGo as an evolution of MaeMo (and others), as a response to Android (and others), which, as we know, they sold that to Jolla and is resurrected as Sailfish; should they go tri-platform with WP, Android, and Sailfish to diversify their portfolio (and be somewhat Samsung-y with 2 big platforms and one small one), or do what HTC dies with limited success and offer two main platforms simultaneously? Big strategy shifts, and no guaranteed results.
105. -box- posted on 03 Mar 2013, 10:10 0 0
"HTC does", not dies^ last paragraph. Was typing part last night.
6. jedpatrickdatu posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:54 2 1
If Nokia adopts Android, it would likely be harder for them to sell devices because Samsung's really the go-to brand for Android devices. As for LG, HTC, and Sony, though they're doing well, their sales are much lower compared to Samsung. Nokia wants to build a fresh reputation with WP instead of trying to be the better Android manufacturer, which is going to be hard because Samsung is now so popular. Besides, many average joes who are not tech-savvy enough to appreciate Android exist. The smartphone world would also be boring if everyone just does Android.
9. UrbanPhantom posted on 02 Mar 2013, 21:59 3 2
Jedpatrickdatu: It isn't just those who are not tech savy who don't dig android: the platform is inherently insecure, and having your personal data stolen and your bank account drained isn't exactly a reason to celebrate. Granted, WP8 isn't fool proof, but it is more secure than Android OS (all versions), and the same can be said for BB-10, and iOS as well.
12. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:05 2 3
Wow, I've been using android since 2010, and my fiancee since 2011, yet neither of us have had that happen. Nor have any of my friends who have been using the platform just as long. Also, my corporate employer is perfectly fine with the security on my phone, all they make me do is run a password or pin. I guess I should look forward to having my bank accounts wiped and my employers IP stolen. Interesting.
24. UrbanPhantom posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:30 2 2
14545, if you truly believe that your Android phone is completely secure, then you seriously need to learn more about your OS. Malware has already made it's way into the Google store, and gullible people like yourself don't have a clue...
30. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:45 0 1
Oh good grief. Apparently ReAdInG comprehension isn't your strong suit. I never once said it was "completely secure. NO OS IS. Not WP, not iOS, not anything. Yes, wow, a couple of pieces of malware has popped up. No different than any other platform. My point is that if my major corporate employer thinks their security is enough, then so do I. Not to mention, you said it had stolen peoples bank accounts and such, please provide evidence to back this up. I'm fairly certain it would have made the news and I would know about it if this had happened. There is no need to lie just to build up your platform. Unlike you, I realize there are flaws in every platform, and I have chosen what works best for me. Also, I would rather BB10 over WP8 anyday. As a former WinMo user, from 2008-2010, it is metro that caused me to leave the platform. And from 08 to 10, I had two different winmo phones, the xv6800 and the TP2. But yes, I'm just gullible, that's the reason I chose android. :rollseyes:
40. UrbanPhantom posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:01 2 1
14545, don't you understand that by the time you see something on the news about malware making it's way through an OS, that particular malware is likely to have existed and done harm a long time before it gets documented and understood? Your phone is infested already, and what's even more laughable is that you think it's safe...
There's no question that Android is more insecure than the other platforms I listed, including WP8, and you pretending otherwise doesn't make the reality any different from the way I'm spelling it out.
One more thing: WP8 is not windows mobile! Get with the times already (yeeeesh). You still trying to use Zune to manage files? Yikes...
49. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:17 2 2
Damn you're an idiot. I NEVER FONKING SAID WP WAS WINMO. IN REALITY, NOT THAT YOU CAN READ, I SAID I LEFT WINDOWS AS A PLATFORM BECAUSE OF THE NEW WP "METRO" PLATFORM. Also, I like how I burst your bubble about bank accounts being drained and you instantly say "oh, it takes time for these things to be documented." PROVE IT OR STFU. Stupid fanboy. All mobile platforms are "not very secure" to a certain extent, LIKE I JUST FONKING SAID. For you to buy into the hype that android is the big bad boogie man proves that you have either A) never used the platform, B) used the platform but don't care because you have made your "choice" and will only degrade everything that isn't your chosen platform because you feel the need to justify your decision. Reaffirming to yourself that you didn't make the wrong decision. Grow up.
All you have done is bought into the hype that android is the bug infested, malware ridden ecosystem that doesn't really exist.
Try actually stepping outside your comfort zone sometime and see that other platforms are not that bad. Oh, and I would use iOS before using metro. It's just that bad. Unlike you, I have actually played with it, and their is a reason I chose against not using it.
54. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 23:31 1 1
My typing is terrible tonight. Oh well.
71. UrbanPhantom posted on 03 Mar 2013, 01:05 0 0
Start8, if you can't figure out how to reach the control panel. Pathetic.
21. MartyK posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:23 0 1
Don't try to garner allied buy trying to say bb and ios is secure like wp (sucking up like elope must be in dna), cause these platform lovers don't like wp either.
10. 14545 posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:00 1 2
Why? That doesn't even make sense? They would have a harder time selling phones with two operating systems available at their disposal? It *might* cost more on the software development side, but I can't buy into this "they would have a harder time moving product" argument.
13. MartyK posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:05 2 7
Listen up everyone, Samsung is number #1 with android because of their HARDWARE only!. They are not some magical company; their UI sucks big time; we buy Samsung for their HARDWARE ONLY and remove their UI/ROM FOR CUSTOM ROMS.
Nokia is suppose to be this great hardware company like everyone is scream, the would do well with android verse the other manufacturer!.
17. urtard (banned) posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:10 8 3
Samsung is number #1 because of their software features. The average Android user don't even know what a custom ROM is.
38. protozeloz posted on 02 Mar 2013, 22:55 0 0
And this is why I think Nokia can take shares from them, fight features with features because honestly HTC is brain dead and lg.... Well I never trust lg to begin with, so aside from the galaxy line....mmmmm maybe Motorola x