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Oracle claims billions in damages from Google's use of Java in Android, determined to get them

Posted: , by Victor H.

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Oracle claims billions in damages from Google's use of Java in Android, determined to get them
The lawsuit action between Oracle and Google started last August with Oracle's claims of Google infringing a bunch of Java patents in its Android code, but did you know how big this whole process is? In the latest development of the saga, Oracle states that Google tried to hide “references to the fact that Oracle damages claims in this case are in the billions of dollars.” But does Oracle really stand a chance in getting those billions?

Skipping back to the past some of you might remember that Oracle already won a huge $1.3 billion lawsuit against SAP, so the company definitely has the experience. As Google is trying to keep all details private, Oracle shows confidence:

"Oracle's damage claims are based on accepted methodology and a wealth of concrete evidence," Oracle reportedly said in a filing to a US district court. "They should not be hidden from public view."

So it also has the attitude. And when it comes to the motives, they seem all the more justified after earlier in the year, patent professional Florian Muller confirmed that he has found "the same pattern of direct copying" in Google's Java code. Reportedly, it's the Dalvik virtual machine where Google has repetitively infringed Oracle's patterns.

Google calls the damages inaccurate and inflated, while the whole report has been dubbed "unreliable and results-oriented." "Oracle's 'methodology' for calculating damages is based on fundamental legal errors and improperly inflates their estimates," Google added in a statement for Bloomberg. But it faces a tough battle as Oracle holds thousands of Java-related patterns. Actually, its pattern portfolio increased by 7,000 after the company acquired Sun. In addition, Oracle has a strong legal team including law firms which have won the company $1.3 billions in the SAP lawsuit. How will this end up? Only future will tell, but in the meantime feel free to chime in with your suggestions below.

source: ZDNet and V3

48 Comments
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posted on 17 Jun 2011, 10:04 2

1. daniel_bargs (Posts: 322; Member since: 27 Nov 2010)


all google's revenues from android since the beginning will go to Oracle's vault in case they lose this battle. i hope not but it sounds like Oracle has a chance. haha

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 10:26 1

2. ilia1986 (unregistered)


This is bs. Almost every phone manufacturer supports Java in it's platform. From Symbullsh*tian to almost every feature phone platform. And none of them were ever targeted by the great Oracle afaik.

posted on 20 Jun 2011, 01:25

46. drone (unregistered)


For every Java enabled Symbian or any other phone, the manufacturer has to pay Sun/Oracle a small sum of money (cents?). This is for the rights to use the Java Logo, Source Codes and other licenses. Google use the Java technology (via Dalvik JVM) on Android and refused to pay for anything while using some of Sun/Oracle's Java source code. Much as I admire Google and Android, I think it is only fair that Oracle try to get back what is rightfully theirs.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 11:05 3

3. Sniggly (Posts: 6496; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Yeah, Oracle. Billions in damages, even though you didn't create the fu.cking code. Go to hell.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 11:08 4

5. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5289; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


But Sun did create the Java code. And since Oracle bailed Sun out by acquiring them, they get to pursue the patent rights that Sun held. Larry may be able to cover the cost of the Sun acquisition out of this lawsuit if it really goes south for Google.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 13:37 4

14. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Oh wait, they made a mistake. It was Apple that Oracle is suing, not google.

Now watch sniggly take everything he said back, and watch him give Oracle some love, hahahahahaha

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 16:28 2

25. Sniggly (Posts: 6496; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Har har. Oracle's obvious cash grab aside, I'm ambivalent about the case. If Google did indeed use patented code without permission, then they should pay the royalties or change their code. However, I don't know enough about the facts of the case to openly condemn Google.

posted on 18 Jun 2011, 22:35

43. Lucas777 (Posts: 2121; Member since: 06 Jan 2011)


in other words, now u r saying something totally different than ur last comment, cant blame google for something they blatantly did, and are blaming oracle for being smart and buying sun...

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 17:27 3

27. pyckvi (Posts: 48; Member since: 19 Dec 2010)


Damn u apple fanboys are one-track minded! wtf is up with all of u fanboys hating android? android has done nothing but good competition to everyone. android is helping everybody make some money. while retarded companies like this oracle want to destroy an Awesome OS & steal all its money! why cant u retards understand that ever since android came out, there has actully been allot of Mobile Evolution thanks to the competion between Apple & Android. i think Patents are BS!!!

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 19:39 2

30. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Patents are BS? Well maybe because you don't have any :)

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 11:06 4

4. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5289; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)


Through its acquisition of Sun, Oracle already has experience enforcing the Java patents (as opposed to patterns). MS felt compelled to pay Sun a license fee when .Net started showing functions that were remarkably similar to Java patents. Unless Google can find a way to invalidate the Java patents, or can find a patent (or patents) to offset Oracle, they had better start to plan on negotiating a way out. If they take it to trial, things won't be pretty, because damages could include derivative revenues. SAP tried to limit its damages exposure to the actual revenues that Oracle lost, but the jury awarded based on a derivative revenues model.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 11:18 1

6. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


I wish they could buy oracle :(

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 11:33 1

7. haha (unregistered)


there goes Sniggly fighting for his all mighty android to the death. SHAME ON ORACLE! GOOGLE IS AN ETHICAL MULTI BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION UNLIKE APPLE! AND ITS PHONE SUPPORTS FLASH! HOW DARE ORACLE BE MEAN TO GOOGLE

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 12:03 3

8. Sniggly (Posts: 6496; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


So I have a stalker now? Cool.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 12:09

10. krkseg1ops (unregistered)


grow up before you post anything. or ask your dad if you can because based on your last comment in this article, he really should eye approve all your doings

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 12:10 3

11. Sniggly (Posts: 6496; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


Who me?

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 12:06 1

9. recurringnightmare (unregistered)


haha, I hope the jury orders Google to retract the java code from all their devices. Awaiting Ice Cream Sandwich successor - Java What?

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 13:12 1

12. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 3521; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)


That WILL never happen. What will happen is that if Google indeed is guilty Oracle WILL get a small % from every Android sale, like Windows gets from HTC every time HTC sells an Android phone. Android is a GIANT STEAMROLLER WHO CAN"T BE STOPPED. It's in Oracle's best interests not to STOP Android Ice Cream Sandwich from being deployed, IF the court system finds Google guilty that is! Also what is up with this Android/Sniggly hate? This is just a blogging site...... plus I think I know who this is anyway...... :-) lol

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 17:37

28. pyckvi (Posts: 48; Member since: 19 Dec 2010)


if that does happen. guess what... ur phones will probably at most get upto 1.2Ghz Dual-Core by about 2015

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 13:26 2

13. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


But didn't google create all codes and every one is just copying google's codes? Lol. Ask the fagdroids, lol.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 13:42 3

15. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 3521; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)


C'mon 530gemini your kidding right? Oh I get it you are trying to be funny. iSheep made a funny! lol Ok now I get it! Are you sure you don't mean your iHero Shepherd Steve Jobs didn't create the codes? No he didn't because if he DID then Apple would be suing! Just like they are going to sue the comic industry because you know, Apple invented it right? lol

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 14:45 1

18. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Well yes, I'm kidding, but sniggly would definitely believe and agree with what I've posted, lol.

Honeslty, I don't care who created or who invented whatever. If I like the device, I'd buy it. If they infringed on something, let them kill each other in court.

Suing is anyone's right. If Apple sues someone whom they think infringed their patents, then it's their right, vice versa.

I'm just amused with fagdroids accusing Apple of stealing this and that when their almighty google is known for stealing ideas and patents as well :)

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 15:00 3

20. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 3521; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)


530gemini, sometimes you type some good points, but when you make it personal, like attaching Sniggly's name or calling people fagdroids you just don't make this fun. You are like the ultimate party foul. You enter a room & all fun just stops. Are you like this in real life? Do you have friends? Yeah you have friends, they must be like you in order to tolerate you. Just try to be cool, & chill out. It's not that serious! I try to make some valid points while I blog but then you come & call me a fagdroid. Why can’t we all be adults & have heated discussions without calling each other homophobic slurs? “Can’t we all just get along”! lol

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 19:41

31. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Muah :)

posted on 20 Jun 2011, 04:31

47. jroc74 (Posts: 4076; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)


Look who you are asking this of...I believe you wasted your time with that post.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 14:20 1

16. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


I don't think I've see many fandroid clamming Google created the smartphone or that Google created the project at all, its know to the general public that Google even used the Linux kernel as a base for its project, also this patterns are related with the dalvic virtual machine witch is the way android gets applications to interact with the OS no the OS itself, yet google added features that where so nice that are considered ti be implemented on other os as well... but I think you already know that don't you... you just hate android....

also this is not the place for you to promote your homophobia

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 14:41 1

17. Whateverman (Posts: 3162; Member since: 17 May 2009)


Gemimni. I'm gonna ask one more time as nicely as I possibly can. Could you please refrain from using that word here? We're just talking about phones here. But that word is really crossing th line. We don't agree on much, but can we agree to be adults and not do the whole name calling and offensive slurs? Thank you.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 14:49 1

19. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


How about I make a deal with you. If you can stop android fans using the word "isheep", then I promise you that I will never use "fagdroid" again :)

If not...... Oh well, lol.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 15:06 3

21. SuperAndroidEvo (Posts: 3521; Member since: 15 Apr 2011)


iSheep & fagdroid are not the same. iSheep is not a homophobic slur. Why can't you come up with a name for Android fans that is not a homophobic slur? What no originality in your iSheep mind! You are clever enough to come up with an anti homophobic slur, aren't you?

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 15:21 2

22. Whateverman (Posts: 3162; Member since: 17 May 2009)


This isn't the same and I think you know it. I'm asking you to not use a word that inspires hatred. I don't know if you are aware of the "It gets better project" but if you google it, and watch a few of the commercials I think you'll see why it so important that we not use such a hateful word.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 16:18 2

23. Sniggly (Posts: 6496; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


There is no negotiation here, Gemini. You either stop using that slur or I will email the site administrators and report every one of your posts that use the term. And I will encourage everyone else here to do the same. You can insult us however you'd like, as long as you're not marginalizing a group based on characteristics they can't control.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 19:44 1

32. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Fine. Geez Louisse. Already then. Ughhh...

How about fangdroid? You know....like Fangface in the 80's? lol.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 21:08

37. Sniggly (Posts: 6496; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)


I don't know who Fangface is, but if that floats your boat, fine.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 16:22 2

24. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)


Why are they pointing fingers? its androids fault for allowing Java. its like i allow kids to run in my house with muddy shoes. Whose fault was it? Android is a fail. Cant wait till Web Os and WP7 replaces your a$s.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 16:32 1

26. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


LOL its going to be a long way... and what you just said? can you explain it longer?

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 19:00 1

29. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)


Web Os will be on all Hp Laptops and desktops and when it hit. Apps, tools, improvement and idea's are going to help Web Os grow majorly. About WP7 thats just a stupid guess. I just said that to piss off android fangirls.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 19:48 2

33. 530gemini (Posts: 2198; Member since: 09 Sep 2010)


Ooooo, " android fangirls". That's cute.



I agree, I think WebOS is a sure winner. I've always admired Palm. Matter of fact, I used to have the Treo before I switched to the Iphone. Well, I had the N95 for a few months then switched to the iphone.

Did you see those new finger gestures on iOS5? iMessage implementation, etc? It's looking really good :)



But if there's an OS that would make me give up my iphone and my ipad, it would be WebOS devices. But when I saw iOS5, I dunno, lol.

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 22:18 1

38. Whateverman (Posts: 3162; Member since: 17 May 2009)


Android fangirls sucks, but is better than the alternative. Thank you, sincerely.

posted on 18 Jun 2011, 07:48 1

40. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


don't jump from a warship to a boat, that's for sure specially since we don't know if the boat will sink any time soon, webos future might be the same as meego and maemo and Symbian, potentially great OS's that just either never took off well or just fell like a plane on fire

also why not just fandroids? is the equivalent to apple fanboys and ifans...
you can also use
-droidtard (equivalent of itard)

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 20:59

35. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


to me webos is the one with little chance to actually move somewhere (on certain reports even the company is aiming for 3RD place) windows phone will get a large majority of device and aim for a good place, HP can put it on their laptops but if people don't feel like using webos then they will get windows powered laptop an android powered phone and an iPad, why? because those companies have better funding, more technology on their hands more people involved and more customers interested on them, how much do you think HP will need to outdo apple's commercial campaign or android's community are had thing to face... for a single company like HP alone to shine only a miracle (maybe this lawsuit) WP7... I think it has a chance... if they get that sour 6.5 feeling off their users witch can be done, and they have quite a lot of money to promote themselves and a lot of backup

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 21:05

36. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)


But every day Android is getting polluted by threats and thats a no lie when android admits it. Also WP7 is growing quick with easy updates and additional apps and Apple growth is slowing down since they innovate very slow. Apple became too big its going to fall like Symbian and Blackberry.

posted on 18 Jun 2011, 05:38 1

39. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


well I consider android has being looking into fixing its mistakes, for example the phone OS version Gingerbread will not be updated till nearly holidays giving time to reduce fragmentation as is expected that a considerable majority of phones will be on it by Q3 and early Q4, the security issues can be addressed properly and I bet their are on the list of things Google needs to fix.... its why I think they are delaying too, if you saw this year IO you may have seen they are working on mayor points of interest for android users, so its going to depend on other factors because Google its not going to sink and watch their great funding source sink because of security.....

apple its going to keep a great market share, don't think they are going to fall just jet like RIM or Symbian yet, even with "slow innovation" they are "innovating" faster than both of them

winmo.... IDK its Microsoft.... hard to tell they are going to do any good, I personally disliked how they "beat" an iPhone and an android phone with either a test they build or with an unknown device from witch we have no specks or information to prove they are into something, at least both apple and Google use devices that already exist or that we have info to "beat" each other, but I think its going to beef up some market share within a considerable time if the company is actually willing to

posted on 18 Jun 2011, 13:37

41. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)


Android is never going to change unless they block 3rd party apps. Apple may innovate faster but its not fast enough, when your beloved android is like 5 years ahead, and for the Wp7 statement i really dont care about that O.S. seems to me, microsoft just wants to entertain. What happened to Smart phones? What happen to phones that can last through the day and give you what you expect. I dont see that in apple or Wp7 (in Android i see it, but battery sucks).

posted on 18 Jun 2011, 20:17

42. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


3RD party apps are not the problem, feature comes disabled by default and the user is warned of the risk, so you do it if you want to, Google just wants you to try and do more with it but you are not forced to use it and if I find all i want on the market then i don't need to use it, what Google has to work is market security, find a way to avoid apps from infecting market users, people want to be safe on the market and that can be fixed by applying a semi lock on the market (they have something similar going on already)

you complain about battery, bet you used HTC... no offence to the users but its what I dislike about HTC, their not so good battery life, I had a Milestone and it lasted around a day and a half with getting a few phone calls some SMS (I don't text much anymore) and sync on all the time, Samsung phones also have a good battery (Nexus and S2) and no I don't mood my phone a lot, mostly stock(manufacturer OS ) and rooted its all I need, my tweaks are done by me.

I have High hopes for the next update, and hopefully I'll see the changes I want, :D maybe Ice cream sandwich encourages you to try it again

posted on 18 Jun 2011, 23:42

44. luis_lopez_351 (Posts: 951; Member since: 18 Nov 2010)


Nexus one and G2, lol didnt noticed but they are HTC devices my bad, but yeah i dont like android, it seems unsafe. Come on you can basically do anything which is scary. Maybe one day all your info could be gone or stolen which does happen.

posted on 19 Jun 2011, 14:51

45. protozeloz (Posts: 5328; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)


windows computer are considered scary things to use yet they are most used on many things regardless of their horrible list of bugs issues and workarounds, people take the best of them, and your computer also hods Important information depending on how you use it, its not that I want to convince you to rush and get an android phone, but things aren't as bad as they seem, so far I have no issues the apps and games I use get frequent updates and new features witch make me happy, and while its true that it might be scary to think of all the hackers willing to damage you, its also true that there are people dedicating into making it a better OS for everyone.

my old boss used to tell me

-"when a tree falls you can hear it fall from appart, but you cant hear a forest that grow no matter how close you get to it..." my recommendation, wait... see how things will work, wait and see what updates to come have to offer

posted on 17 Jun 2011, 20:24

34. griffin2003 (unregistered)


patterns or patents?????????

posted on 01 Jul 2011, 06:20

48. ibap (Posts: 675; Member since: 09 Sep 2009)


Grow up and comment on the content without demonstrating how interested you are in everyone else's sexual orientation or preferences.

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