Apple tells ITC that Andy Rubin took Android framework from them
Apple said that evidence at a previous hearing showed that Rubin actually worked as a low-level engineer at Apple in the early 1990's where he reported to the inventors of the '263 patent, which has to do with real-time API. According to the filing, Apple claims that the Android platform uses the subsystem process from the '263 patent which allows for a flexible design and allows Android to be, as HTC puts it, 'highly customizable and expandable'.
Instead of directly accusing Google of patent infringement, Apple simply is pointing out that HTC is not being totally truthful with the court. So far, the Cupertino based firm has sued handset manufacturers and not Google directly. If Apple decides to take Google to court, Rubin's days at Apple might receive more scrutiny. The whole statement from Apple would certainly change the history books if Apple's statement is true, that Android came from Apple. Even more serious, if the ITC upholds the ruling that the '263 patent is valid and Apple does decide to turn against Google, it is possible that Apple could get an injunction against Android sales.
As it currently stands, Apple's legal focus in this case is on HTC which means that Rubin's employment history is a moot point, except-as we already pointed out once-just to show that HTC is not being totally truthful.
source: FOSSPatents via Phonescoop
Part of the original document filed by Apple
1. Sniggly posted on 04 Sep 2011, 18:34 24 7
Oh, bull, FU.CKING sh.it! Is Apple seriously trying to expand the reality distortion field beyond its headquarters?!
12. remixfa posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:25 20 4
oh come on, we all know "apple invented it". they invented everything!!! lol. and iDiots wonder why we keep making up "apple invented it" jokes.. BECAUSE THEY DID!! hahaha.
so, if apple invented "'highly customizable and expandable" subsystems how comes iOS is so uncustomizable and has barely changed over 4 itterations?
21. jroc74 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:54 6 1
Thats a good point about customizable. Why isnt it customizable out the box like Android then?
I wonder if this has to do with the notifications for iOS 5....
Things that make you go Hmmmmm.
59. remixfa posted on 05 Sep 2011, 10:23 3 2
you mean the notifications that apple clearly invented.. but yet waited till ios5 to steal from android?!? lololol
78. picka_ti_materina (unregistered) posted on 06 Sep 2011, 06:11 0 1
Actually, stolen from a Cydia developer.
77. picka_ti_materina (unregistered) posted on 06 Sep 2011, 06:10 1 1
Apple invented GOD!
15. Droid_X_Doug posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:33 0 0
I am curious why Apple hasn't gone after Google yet. The argument that 'we just provide a resource (Android) and you have to after the ones who are actually doing the infringement' is specious as MS learned when they were sued for infringing the Stac Electronics data compression patent.
The only thing that makes sense for why Apple is going after each handset manufacturer individually is they want to get a corner on the smartphone handset business. It will be interesting to see what happens when Apple goes after HTC and company for producing WP7 handsets. Is MS going to step in and defend the handset manufacturers? If not, WP7 could continue putting up 600K quarterly sales results.
17. protozeloz posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:41 0 3
someone told me that MS and apple have/had some sort of agreement so they wouldn't kill each other so MS can copy apple as much as they can with no lawsuits coming back from the other side.... I have yet to research about that
23. hepresearch (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 20:07 1 1
I have heard the same hearsay, but haven't seen direct evidence yet. Although, I must admit that I feel that WP7 is closer in its feel and style to Apple than Android is, just with "Live Tiles" and bland menus instead of widgets and icons...
It also makes sense, since Microsoft is owner of a large portion of Apple... about 40% last I checked.
iOS/WP7 could gang up on Android, and it is essentially already starting to look that way somewhat.
31. Droid_X_Doug posted on 04 Sep 2011, 22:16 3 0
Back when MS was trying to do Windows, they negotiated a windows license from Apple.
Apple thought they licensed MS to develop a tiled Windows (a la Windows v. 1). MS felt they negotiated the ability to develop overlapping windows (a la Windows v. 3.X and everything afterward).
Apple and MS went head-to-head in Vaughn Walker's courtroom (same judge that ruled against Prop 8 in CA), and Apple lost. MS went on to develop approx. 95% market share in the desktop windows market. And Steve was forced out of Apple.
When Steve returned to Apple in 1997, he swore a holy oath that he would never be out-maneuvered on IP ever again. And he is putting his money where he swore his oath.
True story. I wonder if it will make it to the biography of Steve that is being released soon.
60. remixfa posted on 05 Sep 2011, 10:25 0 1
true.. all exept for the part that when steve took over for the second time he sold nearly 1/3rd of apple to MS for capitol through stocks. MS LOVES Apple and all the money it makes them. lol.
25. Sniggly posted on 04 Sep 2011, 20:14 4 3
You guys have already iterated the things I was wondering about when I read Apple's version of history.
1. If Android's framework is directly derived from software patented by Apple which Andy Rubin had access to as an employee of Apple, why didn't they bring this up in the first place and immediately go after Google and Android when it came out?
2. How can we be sure that it wasn't Rubin himself responsible for the creation of said software, and didn't simply bring his ideas back to the table when he helped form Android?
3. If the whole point of the supposedly stolen framework was that the system it supported be customizable and flexible, then why is Apple throwing a s**t fit about it when that philosophy is in no way present in iOS?
4. How could Android's framework infringe on this patent of Apple's when it was filed in 1993-long, long before iOS or the iPhone were even conceived?
These are all immediate holes in Apple's story, which for their sake they better start filling, and fast.
45. Lucas777 posted on 05 Sep 2011, 00:44 2 2
1. why dud apple directly sue google when they can make money from oems first, google later.. also the oems offer a way for apple to test which patents they really have on android
2. he sure cud have done that, but he was working for apple which means the things he created at apple are apples.. not his.. he can have credit for inventing it, but if he made it for apple its apple..
3. they are in no way throwing a s**t fit first of all.. and second it is not their philosophy.. I'm sorry apple has the power of android and choses not to use it and that is their choice.. it (obviously) works for them..
4. it is apples patent.. it doesn't matter when apple decides to use it as long as they do something with it before it expires..
46. Sniggly posted on 05 Sep 2011, 01:08 2 2
On the last point, I should have elaborated: the original patent was obviously not for a mobile phone OS. It was conceived long before Jesus Jobs came along and told everyone his grand vision for the iPhone.
If the patents are ironclad, why is there any need to "test" their authenticity? And the motivation of going after the OEMs first to make maximum cash just makes them sound even worse.
If Apple chooses not to have a flexible and customizable OS and someone else does, then it doesn't matter whether they may have had a similar idea at one point. Flexible and customizable has never been part of Apple's business strategy or platforms at any point in their existence.
And lastly, I know that companies think that their employees can't own ideas, but the point is that they're accusing Rubin of stealing ideas that Apple originated, not even creating them and then taking them elsewhere. Haven't you noticed how virtually no one except for Steve Jobs is ever remembered or recognized for anything at Apple?
67. Lucas777 posted on 05 Sep 2011, 14:45 4 0
how do u know it wasn't made for a phone os? and it doesn't matter if it was... and u also don't know that apple had another phone long before the iPhone.. it failed but still
I have never said apple is a god company... i admire them because of their business... not because of their goodness but because of what they have done
just because a company chooses not to use their own patent, does not mean the patent is invalidated... '
first of all, they are not accusing andy rubin--there are no lawsuits or anything major... and i don't think you know what ur talking about because steve jobs has 300 patents.. thats not anything close to the amount apple has.. and ya, the ceo normally is the one who is the face of the company... bill gates? elop? sanjay jha?
2. GH (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 18:49 2 2
This is unbelievable, now Apple says Android is their invention (at least one core of itd features). As these stupid patents are rolling out, seems like you cannot longer innovate on something that has already been invented. If that woud've been the rule many years ago, now we would only have access to one car, one TV or one PC brand.
32. E.N. posted on 04 Sep 2011, 22:31 1 0
Yeah I'm just waiting for the details the start flooding in. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
4. skymitch89 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:02 7 1
Apple must have some retarded people working for them. The only thing that Android has in common with iOS/Apple is the fact that they both are based on Unix Kernels, and that Apple is copying Android's drop down notification bar.
5. Immolate posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:04 10 2
I thought perhaps Apple might back off this crap when Darth Jobs left, but it looks like there are no end of Sith Lords working for the forbidden fruit. I think it's about time for a common-sense judge to step up and teach 'em the downside of predatory litigation.
80. darth8ball posted on 06 Sep 2011, 11:54 0 0
I agree with your statement, however I prefer my ADOLPH Jobs moniker to Darth Jobs as using DARTH to describe him offends me.
6. kamen posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:05 1 1
Apple thought of Android-like OS in the early 90s (1989-1992 - does anyone remember the state of the software back then)? They couldn't even think of a proper OS until they took UNIX, what about another OS. Pathetic! I am really interested into whether there is no one of Apple's low-level engineers that has previously worked for, let's say, Symbian-connected company.
7. theBankRobber (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:16 4 1
Wait, I thought that Google did not start Android, they bought a company that had already started working on it!?!?!?!?
61. remixfa posted on 05 Sep 2011, 10:27 1 0
they bought android from... android.. lol Thats how Rubin ended up at google.. he was running the firm that was developing andriod.
9. cheetah2k posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:22 1 1
I'm pretty sure that the BS wave Apple is riding on right now is more damaging for their image and business than anything else.
No one likes anti-competitive behaviour, regardless of whether "there's a patent for that" or not.
Its just no good to see how public and personal all of this is getting.
33. E.N. posted on 04 Sep 2011, 22:33 2 0
From what I read, Microsoft took the same approach and went on to own the market. And most people probably don't care or even know about this.
10. jhgkiu posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:24 3 0
i love Android but i have to admit android did copy ios to some what of a level i mean if you looked at android before the iphone lunch in 2007 it looked like windows 6 BUT IM NOT AGREEING WITH APPLE. if ford decide to to do the same thing in the past than we wouldn't have all the great car manufacturer that we do now. i guess apple is pissed off seeing htc, Samsung, Motorola and all the other android manufacturer benefiting out off some thing they kinda helped to create
19. jroc74 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:48 0 1
Yea you can say they copied something. Icons and home screen layout.
After that.....thats about it. Oh and something with the Gallery app.
71. Kaushik (unregistered) posted on 06 Sep 2011, 02:00 1 0
I can see a wheel working and copy it. I can also make customisations to the wheel that were not there on the wheel I saw. That is different from stealing the wheel, which is what Apple is charging Android with.
11. dont you evah (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:24 6 1
i think they invented the cellphone and telegraph too..
marconi (first telephone) and and martin cooper (motorola) worked for apple too!
even gravity was apple's invention (newton stole their ideas too) :|
13. remixfa posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:26 8 1
apple invented rotation... the earth stole the idea of rotating around the sun from apple! sue the earth!
55. PeterIfromsweden posted on 05 Sep 2011, 04:23 1 1
No, that was God's idea ; )
Apple can't sue God for putting the earth into rotation, they would get fire and brimstone from heaven : D
64. remixfa posted on 05 Sep 2011, 13:37 1 1
peter, if you ask any iDiot, steve jobs is god incarnate. That is the answer to your question. And if steve jobs aka god steps down fully from apple and still reminds people that he invented rotation, apple will sue jobs-god because apple has the patents since steve worked for apple.. lol
14. shy2papa posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:27 1 1
OMG!!! if apple where to have there way they would be the only phone maker in the world.
16. Angela Hey (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:34 0 0
Under California Law a programmer can take common knowledge from one company to another. Remember some Palm employees also worked at Apple. Mobile software platforms are bound to use the best programming knowledge and architectures.
Apple may have some patent claims and a court can decide if a developer has stolen code.
However, the general idea that the rough framework for a mobile operating system is proprietary I suggest the courts would throw out, c.f.Texas Instruments vs Intel re: microprocessors.
Disclosure: I was a General Magic Employee
20. Mooooo posted on 04 Sep 2011, 19:53 6 1
So much for the rebels and thinking different. Apparently all the know is to sue because they can not handle the competition of Android.
This is so pathetic from Apple.
22. jroc74 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 20:06 0 0
I'm waiting for the lawsuits from manufactures of monitors, HDTV's, refrigerators, microwaves, ovens..
Oh thats right. It hasnt happened yet after all these years.
26. hepresearch (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 20:16 1 0
If Apple tries to sue Google, and loses, I will laugh very hard. If Apple sues Google, and manages to, by whatever means, convince the ITC that Android is based partly or in-whole on the patent in question, then Android will be slammed in a hurry, and I will probably laugh even harder. Microsoft already collects royalties from Google per Android handset, and I'll bet Apple demands at least three times what MS asks for per handset if they can.
27. sickofapple (unregistered) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 20:16 1 1
Maybe Konrad Zuse's family ( inventor of the world's first functional program-controlled Turing-complete computer ) should sue Apple for stealing his invention !!! He layed the ground work for what computers are today !!!!!!! Apple needs to drop this crap on sueing everybody !! Google, microsoft, Amazon, HTC, Samsung , who's next ?
28. Azure01 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 20:59 1 1
Damn Apple seriously thinks it's God...I don't get how one company can be so power hungry...what are they over compensating for?!
29. taco50 (banned) posted on 04 Sep 2011, 22:11 2 4
It's going to be rough for you fandroids watching iPhone 5 demolish all your favorite phones.
34. Sniggly posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:09 3 1
If those other phones sell (which they do) then the iPhone 5 won't demolish them.
75. Kaushik (unregistered) posted on 06 Sep 2011, 02:16 0 0
Ever thought why our phones are our favourites?
30. blade19 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 22:12 2 0
Here is an interesting article that some may or may not have read. Does shed a little light about Apple and this patent mess...
+Cries+About+Samsung+and+Motor olas+Patent+Monopoly/article22 586.htm
36. ravi5695 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:29 2 1
Apple also thinks that it invented earth and the sun..even this solar system is invented by apple... BS apple..!!
37. ravi5695 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:31 3 1
Apple thinks it has patents over moon and mars.. it want to sue nasa for researching over there...
38. ravi5695 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:36 2 1
and taco50 ... everyone who will buy iphone5.. will throw it in gutter after using that sh#t phone.. appple sucks.. iphone sucks..
39. ravi5695 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:37 2 2
This isn't the first time that Apple has accused competitors over something it itself is doing. Apple chief executive and co-founder, Steven P. Jobs has bragged about his mastery of stealing ideas from others, stating [video], "Picasso had a saying - 'Good artists copy, great artists steal.' And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
But faced with large touch-screen competitors to his iPhone and iPad, the CEO and Apple's lawyers cried foul, accusing these rivals of "slavishly" copying the company's intellectual property.
41. ravi5695 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:48 2 1
43. ilia1986 posted on 04 Sep 2011, 23:59 2 0
LOL No no no let me get this straight:
Apple owns a patent which allows it's OS be "Highly customizable and expandable", and yet they DON'T FREAKING UTILIZE ANY OF THAT - and here come Google - do make an OS which is highly customizable and expandable - AKA open source - and Apple SUES them?!
Just how much more absurdly ridiculous can it get?!
44. biophone posted on 05 Sep 2011, 00:40 1 0
Im so confused by this article. Apple is not making much sense.
47. Hi (unregistered) posted on 05 Sep 2011, 01:44 0 1
Am i the only that picture Apple like a little girl pulling her mother and telling her that "he took mine mommy"?
48. TryllZ (unregistered) posted on 05 Sep 2011, 01:57 0 0
Yeah, apple invented everything because it is the only company capable of inventing, others are there to imitate them and their products...Lo$er apple has to know its time they rotten...
73. Kaushik (unregistered) posted on 06 Sep 2011, 02:09 0 0
You're right. Maybe they should file for a patent on invention itself.
49. rabboman (unregistered) posted on 05 Sep 2011, 02:16 0 0
I think America needs to wage war on Apple.
Apple is communist after all.