With the iPhone 8, Apple surrenders design leadership to Samsung

Ever since the original iPhone, Apple has been the leader in build quality and aesthetics. This year, however, Samsung has assumed the role of design leader and trend setter with the Galaxy S8. Here's where Apple slipped up.
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58. kiko007

Posts: 7491; Member since: Feb 17, 2016

Why would I be nervous? My point was pretty concise, and it's not like I moved the discussion away from design necessarily but what said design awards you. Also, you realize not even four years ago Galaxies outsold iPhones, right? Android as an ecosystem was as crowded then as it is now, so what changed?

63. slow00

Posts: 97; Member since: Mar 08, 2017

When samsung was offering a 4,8 inch phone steve jobs was preaching his flock that a 4 inch display is the ideal size for the apple user and the 300 ppi retina display is the best the industry can offer. What changed is that there was a demand for bigger phones from ios users and many people moved back to apple with the iphone 6..it is known..its true that android was crowded too 4 years ago (different players though) but competition is fiercer now . google is stepping up and the chinese will not make the mistakes blackberry nokia htc and lg once did. Samsung will not dominate android for long and expect apple to take a hit as well especially in case they are not willing to lower their asp by start selling devices in the mid tier segment

72. Macready

Posts: 1811; Member since: Dec 08, 2014

" not even four years ago Galaxies outsold iPhones" Galaxies have steadily outsold iphones for years. But if you meant to say " a single Galaxy model outsold a single iPhone model not even 4 years ago", even that is easily challenged. Because that statement would either point at the S5 (3.5 years ago) or Note 3 (4 years ago), neither of which outsold iPhones for as much as we know (there are no hard sales numbers per phone for Samsung), despite of what " analysts" may have claimed. And as far as the ecosystem being as crowded, think about the Chinese. They were not nearly as competitive back then. 4 years ago, most competition was playing at the same price point too, now you can buy Chinese high end phones for less than what the Koreans and Taiwanese ask and the Chinese (largest market) buyers are doing so by the masses, as are others. Plus there's competition from mid to lower end phones, that now offer a compelling alternative, without the clear downsides you had years ago. That includes lower tier phones from Samsung themselves. So yes, either way an apples and oranges comparison.

73. uncle_gadget

Posts: 1050; Member since: Sep 20, 2017

Popularity is the only reason iPhone outsell the Galaxy. But based on Facts, the iPhone only Outsells the Galaxy in 2 places...North America and Europe, because in general we are the only ones who can afford them. Apple own marketshare tells you that. Also the iPhone does not outsell the Galaxy. Unless you are only talkign about the S and Note. The Galaxy brand encompasses multiple devices. The Galaxy brand as a whole sells over 250M devices every year. Last I checked, Apple sold 220M iPhone's last year.

106. sissy246

Posts: 7002; Member since: Mar 04, 2015

"Ehhhh... then why are iPhones outselling Galaxies then" Samsung has to compete with other phones running Android. Apple has no one to compete with running IOS.

105. sissy246

Posts: 7002; Member since: Mar 04, 2015

+ 100....

23. TheOracle1

Posts: 2040; Member since: May 04, 2015

Kiko I won't disagree with your points but I will point out a very serious flaw. Apple may take 65% of all mobile profits but that's also because of the huge margins they charge. What should worry you more is having one product account for about 70% of Apple's total revenue in the fickle phone market. It's a serious weakness and flaw in their business model that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. More and more of my friends (male and female) are considering other brands like Samsung because they're much sexier and better designed these days. When they do switch they're also amazed at how much more the phones can do because they're no longer handcuffed by IOS. I'm not saying IOS is bad, I'm saying that people, as they're becoming more reliant on their phones, are now learning the differences where they had no clue before.

32. kiko007

Posts: 7491; Member since: Feb 17, 2016

True true. People have begun to rely on their phones more, and I'd even go so far as to say Samsung's version of Android is likely the most tech savvy variant available. However, I don't necessarily believe that iOS can't evolve past the current iteration either, and as time passes Apple will be forced to add more and more features from Android to accommodate users. As for Apple's lack of diversification, I wouldn't worry about it. Even going back 11 years to the iPod Apple, they've always relied on one major product, followed by several smaller revenue generators. Apple is still the fourth largest PC vendor in the world, the AppleWatch is the number one selling watch in the world, and Apple's services have been steadily improving as a source of income. Apple's gonna be fine no matter what unless the Apocalypse or some crazy s**t goes down.

52. TheOracle1

Posts: 2040; Member since: May 04, 2015

"Apple's gonna be fine no matter what unless the Apocalypse or some crazy s**t goes down." You mean the apocalypse that Nokia and BlackBerry missed? Or the one that Atari and Sega missed? Features aren't the issue. The closed ecosystem is the problem and silly emojis from Snapchat or little gimmicks don't change that. IOS can't" talk" to anyone else.

56. kiko007

Posts: 7491; Member since: Feb 17, 2016

"You mean the apocalypse that Nokia and BlackBerry missed? Or the one that Atari and Sega missed?" Nokia doesn't (didn't) have the cash reserves Apple holds. Even in their heyday, they were worth a fraction of what Apple is worth right this second. Same with Atari and Sega, but not BB. BlackBerry is still VERY much present in the modern tech world. Maybe not as a consumer oriented business necessarily, but in Enterprise and other areas, BB is still doing reasonably well. I think people overestimate the advents of failing in a certain market and how that ultimately affects the company as a whole. MSFT completely failed in mobile and are still churning more revenue than ever. That whole "no company is too big to fail" thing died once companies started hitting the $600 Billion dollar market cap. "The closed ecosystem is the problem and silly emojis from Snapchat or little gimmicks don't change that. IOS can't" talk" to anyone else." That's the point: iOS doesn't WANT to talk to anyone outside iOS. That's called lock-in, and it works FAR better than open standard, at least from a business perspective. Consider these merits for one moment: >iOS has a higher retention rate than Android. >On average, iOS users pay for $57 a year worth of app purchases, compared to $5 a year for Android. >Apple makes more money off of it's accessory sales than the entire Android space makes off the same category combined using propriety means. Closed will always be a better way to make money, provided that the userbase is large and affluent enough, of course. I'd argue the openness of Android has only served to hurt it's potential as a revenue generator. Reasoning: >The ability to download apps freely online has created systemic piracy, which takes away app sales, which leads to development non-priority. >The overabundance of devices has create a market sinkhole at the top, making premium handsets much harder to sell. >The lack of binding users creates a "no loyalty" environment where user retention is all but impossible. So open isn't ALWAYS a plus; especially not if you wanna make big bank.

62. miketer

Posts: 496; Member since: Apr 02, 2015

+1. After you insulted somebody's mother, I rarely used to read your posts. But this article got me interested and am reading everything from a to z and this post is very logical and correct.

67. TheOracle1

Posts: 2040; Member since: May 04, 2015

Market cap is a two way street and one or two bad iPhone years can reverse that easily with their over reliance on that one product. I'm not saying Apple will go away just that they will have to stay ahead of the curve in order to continue this run. It's no secret in tech circles that iPhone's aren't cutting edge or innovative any longer compared to the competition. User retention and such phrases sound good but are bull$hit. The competitive environment of Android has pushed the innovation in the smartphone business because that's what competition does. Apple has just tagged along and added old Android features whilst claiming to still be cutting edge. That can't and won't last as consumers become more savvy. The US car industry ran into the same problem in the 70's and 80's when Toyota, Honda (a motorbike company then ffs!), Datsun, Audi, BMW etc came along. Detroit didn't take them seriously and continued building garbage until customers spoke with their dollars. The big three didn't go away but they were bailed out multiple times until they started to build good reliable cars. "Apple makes more money off of it's accessory sales than the entire Android space makes off the same category combined using propriety means." You mean like the fast chargers for the iPhone 8? Lol Yeah they make more money because they charge for every little item that would normally come bundled by any reasonable company. Then they charge inflated prices for their accessories. Nah, I concede that Apple products are good but they're not the best, IOS is probably better than Android. But Beta was also better than VHS but was overwhelmed by VHS because they wouldn't license it. Android will always develop faster than IOS and eventually overtake it completely because there are thousands of more developers for Android due to multiple manufacturers and an insane developer community. Again, history has shown that Apples business model won last much longer just because it won't be able to keep up. As for me I'm not going to get ripped off multiple times in the IOS ecosystem from overpriced phones all the way to nickle and diming for every accessory and service that's free elsewhere.

81. slow00

Posts: 97; Member since: Mar 08, 2017

Best comment in this thread. Cheers

125. tedkord

Posts: 17131; Member since: Jun 17, 2009

And that's where iPhone users are lucky Tim Cook is in charge now. Steve Jobs' ego wouldn't allow big phones with Android features, certainly not this quickly.

25. jeroome86

Posts: 2314; Member since: Apr 12, 2012

Careful Kiko. You will call down the thunder from Uncle Techie gadget. His post will be twice as long. Ha ha.

28. kiko007

Posts: 7491; Member since: Feb 17, 2016

I can't wait to see which insults he'll throw my way. The old iSheep and iFanboi ones are getting tired... time to switch it up!

65. aegislash

Posts: 1446; Member since: Jan 27, 2015

Is Techie still around? I honestly haven't seen him in weeks, I had assumed he was banned.

71. kiko007

Posts: 7491; Member since: Feb 17, 2016

Yep. Uncle_gadget says hi!

94. jeroome86

Posts: 2314; Member since: Apr 12, 2012

My guess is Techie doesn’t want to be banned under that name since he uses it on many sites. Keep in mind they banned his other account with no exceptions. Like Negan did Glen. Don’t know why but he must of crossed a line some where? But just read uncle_gadget articles and you will know it’s him. Of course that’s just a guess. Maybe he will clear it up.

68. uncle_gadget

Posts: 1050; Member since: Sep 20, 2017

I never said the S6 wasn't an improvement. Even though I like how metal and glass feels, it in itself is a falwed design, to to its fragile and easy to damage nature. When the iPhone 4 came out I liked it, even though I still don't like glass/metal finishes for the same reason then as now. It looks and feels cool, but the extra cost to protect it, is outrageous and I don't like spending the extra money, just because OEM's are greedy. Why bring up the general public? Are you the general public? Why do you feel the need to speak for them? I don't care about what the majority thinks. I care about what nerdy tech guys say to a point because we look at these products different than the general public. I don't and I will never care how much money any company makes, except mine. So talking about how much Apple makes when Apple has a different business model which is 100% profit driven, is a pointless fanboy discussion I have no intentions of talkign about.

21. Achilis

Posts: 65; Member since: Oct 05, 2013


24. ShadowSnypa786

Posts: 485; Member since: Jan 06, 2017

Apple may have been in front all those years ago but at least Samsung users got removeable batteries and SD card slots which are far more important. The S6 edge was when Samsung blew Apple out the water in terms of design yeah we lost removeable batteries and SD card slot but at least Sammy brought SD slots back. Ever since then Apple hasnt caught up not even the Iphone X comes close to the S8 duo or Note 8.

44. pendragon0202

Posts: 164; Member since: Feb 23, 2015

You forgot to mention the headphone jack! hehe

26. dubaiboy78

Posts: 442; Member since: Sep 19, 2014

No more $$$ for iphonearena! Bad bad bad - Apple

30. path45th

Posts: 401; Member since: Sep 11, 2016

This is a laughable article. . The Touch ID at the back is the worst design Decision of the year. It’s easy to make a huge screen if you remove the important ID at the wrong place. Mediocre. It’s obvious that Apple couldn’t put the Touch ID under the screen so it changed nothing as the Touch ID must be at the place where is. I agree it’s an old design but it doesn’t sacrifiace Functionality.

31. uncle_gadget

Posts: 1050; Member since: Sep 20, 2017

I would say, when you compare the iPhone 6/6S/7/8 to the S6 edge/S7edge/S8/Note7/Note8, any iPhone available when these Galaxies were available were all design failures. To be fair, the S6/S7's all had big foreheads and big chins, but the edge design at least made an attempt to update the design a bit further. The only reason Samsung has reduced the bezels, is because the displays in the S8's and Note 8 are 6+" tall, and if they wouldn't have reduced the bezel size and placed a 6" display in it; the phone would have been really tall and very awkward and impossible to use. It's not like Samsung was goign for a new design. They were going for bigger displays and in order to do that, it required reducing the bezel. The iPhone 6 design and 6S (which should have been the 7) were on par with what was mostly available. I wished Apple has also curved the front glass as Samsung did. We also saw PA post a leak that showed for the S8, Samsung also considered a notched design. They probably didn't do it for several reasons. 1st - its absolutely stupid and creates a UI nightmare. 2nd - it simply look ugly and hampers the look of the device. 3rd - its function can be done without a notch. So Samsung actually made the smart move with the S/Note 8's vs the move Apple is making with the iPhone X. I like the new iPhone color, but the design is really dated and even the S6 looks better than the iPhone8. Well at least the S6 edge and S7 edge models look so much better. The regular flatten S6/S7 to me were just metal and glass versions of the S5 to me and I didn't like them.

33. nctx77

Posts: 2540; Member since: Sep 03, 2013

Ummm m.......sorry buddy but Samsung’s current design is still very similar to the S6 which was a near copy of the iPhone 6/6 plus. Since then, all they did was stretch the screen up and down. I would go so far as to say it’s time for Samsung to try something different. They’ve been using that same “borrowed” design since the S6.

39. cmdacos

Posts: 3873; Member since: Nov 01, 2016


64. aegislash

Posts: 1446; Member since: Jan 27, 2015

I had to re-read that about four times, just to make sure I was reading it correctly. Did you seriously just say that the Galaxy S6 was a near copy of the iPhone 6/6 Plus? The only thing about the Galaxy S6 that even remotely resembles an iPhone 6/6 Plus is the bottom speaker grill. Literally everything else about the S6's design blows the iPhone 6/6 Plus out of the water. Keep smoking whatever it is you're smoking, dude. You gave us all a nice laugh with that dumb as heck comment.

80. uncle_gadget

Posts: 1050; Member since: Sep 20, 2017

https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6849&idPhone2=6378 You need to lay off the crack pipe buddy. Whatever you smoking, shooting, injecting, swallowing or whatever...STOP! The S6 looks ZERO like an iPhone. The ONE and ONLY phone Samsung ever made that looked like an iPhone was the original S model.

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