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Why is Google willing to cooperate and compete simultaneously with Apple, but not willing to do so with Microsoft?

0. phoneArena posted on 15 Nov 2013, 15:50

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 22:27

59. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

That's not the whole story though. Android is free, so you're right in a way. But Google just wants people to use their services and that's where they make their money, and is a little more than $2 billion.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 00:51 1

64. ihavenoname (Posts: 1693; Member since: 18 Aug 2013)

Apple makes profit from devices, M$ from licenses and Google from ads.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 02:54 2

72. rusticguy (Posts: 2828; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)

Haven't you heard of the razor-and-blade-model?
Razor is FREE and the blades earn recurring money.

M$ is trying to harm this model through their stupid scroogled campaign so that they can get back to their monopolistic "WINTEL" business model which isn't going to happen anytime soon :)

Patents aren't lifelong. They will expire someday and that's the time google is waiting for i guess. As soon as K-Cup patents expired others moved in and are climbing on the back of GMCR. Same thing will happen to all patent trolls ... Yes you are right Android is funding BING else BING would have been dead long ago.

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 17:53 4

32. Professor (Posts: 223; Member since: 02 Aug 2013)

Re: "the growth of Windows Phone is impossible to ignore."

What grow? Every one (100%) of the people that I know, that has tried a Window phone, has returned it back. Window phones sales may have increased 9% but the problem is that maybe only 1% of them actually ends keeping the phone...

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 18:22 2

33. jarnts (Posts: 13; Member since: 26 Oct 2013)

With that relevant information:

100% of the people I know that got a Windows Phone love it and probably wont go back to a droid or iPhone. Clearly the people you know are what matter in these statistics....

SIgh, WP saw growth because of the $100 nokia phone that had a much better experience than a corresponding $100 android phone in other countries. This is the non-subsidized price. Google is going after this growth with releasing cheaper phones (Moto) and an OS that can run on lower end hardware. WP runs great on lower end phones, and the 520/521 is a great device for $100 no contract.

Therefore Nokia is now trying to hit the higher end non-subsidized prices by releasing the 1520 for $500 no contract. Remember, the subsidized/contract bullcrap only exists in America. It is a game of chess between Google and Microsoft in these segments because they are the only segments that are growing. Apple is just focusing on increasing their profit per device and staying high end; clearly the 5c is not what people want.

Again, its a chess match; and WP is completely dependent on Nokia to push the low end and high end of the growing segments and Google is going to compete with Motorola's offerings.

If anything Apple is the third party that is not fighting with the two; they have a model and only they are the player in it. The fight is now between Microsoft and Google for the rest of the world.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 00:53 1

65. ihavenoname (Posts: 1693; Member since: 18 Aug 2013)

WP shines on low end devices but high end devices are only ok.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 08:20

78. Altair (Posts: 367; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)

I feel sad for your limited scale of people you know.

That and the way how you troll around without any intention even understand what is going on.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 08:53

79. papss (unregistered)

I've done the opposite. Convinced many of my friends to leave android and a few apple people to wp8.. All seem very happy.

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 18:34 5

35. downphoenix (Posts: 3165; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)

the problem is, Microsoft is competing with Google's bread and butter with Bing. Also, Microsoft has done some dirty ad maneuvers like Scroogled and Smoked by Windows Phone. Apple has played dirty with Google before, but it mainly keeps it to the courtroom and out of the public eye, Microsoft has been more than willing to play dirty in public with Google, soil its name, and compete with Google's bread and butter, all things that Apple has never done. Not to say Apple doesnt play dirty, sometimes even dirtier than how Microsoft does it, but Apple seems to follow the unwritten rules and Microsoft does it as they go along, POing everyone else.

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 20:02 5

41. jromy (Posts: 114; Member since: 26 Feb 2013)

PA numbers are always skewed...if I make ONE phone and sell it, then next week I make FOUR phones and sell them as well I increased my market share by 400%!!!! Wow unprecedented in the history of technology, ever!
Once they start using actual sales numbers instead of percentages then they can claim whatever they want about WP being relevant.

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 21:06

51. terabyteRouser (Posts: 457; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

the same argument could've been made about android a few years ago

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 22:11 1

56. jroc74 (Posts: 6019; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

Difference is....there was no talk about amazing growth with Android....until it actually happened. Androod and amazing growth didnt really get mentioned until 2010, 2011. Android as barely a blip in 2008, and even with the Droid launching in 2009, it was still seen as an uphill battle.

Damn near every media outlet kept saying it steadily gaining market share, steadily growing. For some reason...with WP its like some folks are trying to make something thats not true true by reading into specific numbers.

See, there was actual amazing growth with Android. With WP, not so much. Its like a company saying they sold out of X product in a day, week...but only had 20 for sale.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 01:16 2

66. livyatan (Posts: 867; Member since: 19 Jun 2013)

Android had a 650% growth in it's.third year, and over 1000% growth it the second year!

It is the fastest growing software in history!
Get some clue, people

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 21:00 1

49. TwentyWendy (banned) (Posts: 65; Member since: 12 Aug 2013)

Try to seperate Google and android, and you will see the clear pictures, Google never compete with Apple, and android never corporate Apple.. Larry page and Sandra pichai is not the same person with no same goals...

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 21:05

50. terabyteRouser (Posts: 457; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

so, you're at this party, and the opposite sex way outnumbers you. all of them dig you. you're having the time of your life. a buddy of your sends you a text, they say, hey what are you up to? i'm at this party it's great. they say, hey come give me a ride? i wanna come.

you're like alright cool, ill come get you. you stop and remember, hey my buddy is normally pretty popular with the opposite sex. i dont know if i want them to come. if they come i might lose my edge. but if i invite them, we'll probly have more fun, but screw it im keeping them all to myself.


lol crazy analogy, this is my interpretation of the google/microsoft relationship on this one. google knows how formidable of a company microsoft is.

supporting microsoft is a major gamble for google. they are making tons of money off of the dominant market share they have with android. they would love to make more by getting ad revenue from microsoft.

there is one grave caveat. helping microsoft can give them a jump start with their platform adoption and could cannibalize their revenues with android ads.

i would surmise that the ratio of ad revenue on an android phone to a windows phone is probably 10:2 or something like that. so a relatively small gain in windows phone market share at the expense of android can translate into a significant net loss in revenue.

this is the crux of the matter. are you willing to take the gamble of supporting a potentially subversive competitor to gain thousands with the risk of losing millions? i dont think google shareholders would like that idea, and im sure thats what the bean counters at google have calculated.

as much as us tech geeks would like to see cooperation between the two, we really don't matter. at the end of the day businesses exist to make maximum profit, even if it is unpopular.

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 22:15 7

57. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

Oh, Maxwell, you did such a good job with the Moto X article, but you really dropped the ball here.

The royalties that Android OEMs pay out to Microsoft is just one piece of a pie. Let's go item by item:

1) Droidrage 1: Microsoft sought to capitalize on FUD around Android by offering entry into a sweepstakes for a free Windows Phone by way of complaining about Android and "malware." This first campaign saw some success, largely due to users' ignorance and/or having bad Android experiences.

2) Smoked By Windows Phone: Microsoft sought to show how quick Windows phones were in comparison to Android and iOS. The problem? They deliberately rigged the campaign in their favor for each contestant, and even had an entire playbook dedicated to doing so.

3) Droidrage 2: Not satisfied with stirring the FUD pot once, Microsoft tried it again, a year later. However, this time it backfired hilariously, with #windowsrage trending instead of #droidrage.

4) Scroogled: Now Microsoft seeks to quote mine and otherwise misrepresent Google's practices through supremely manipulative ad campaigns.

5) The Youtube debacle: Given all that I've listed, it's already no wonder why Google wouldn't seek to invest heavily in resources required to develop new apps for Windows Phone. However, they provided Microsoft with the tools to do so themselves. Microsoft abused that trust by deliberately breaking the fine print in the TOS for Youtube apps, like, three times. Each time Google blocked them for doing so, Microsoft very publicly cried foul and played the victim, submitted a "fixed" version, then promptly broke another rule, forcing Google to enforce its policy again. They rinsed and repeated until they whipped up enough ignorant fanboys to raise a ruckus.

Given everything I've listed so far (and more I've likely forgotten) why is it any surprise that Google doesn't want to do anything to make Windows Phone more attractive to users?

That said, why don't we see Office for non 365 subscribers on Android or iOS? Microsoft is perfectly willing to cooperate and work with Apple, why are they such insufferable brats toward Google?

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 01:27

67. Maxwell.R (Posts: 217; Member since: 20 Sep 2012)

Haha...Don't write me off forever. Microsoft's barbs at Android and Google did not prevent Microsoft from developing apps for iOS, Android, and even provide one-click access to services within Chrome OS. Office 365 access has been optimized for touch too, so it works great even for Safari browsers or Chrome. I forgot to mention that the WP YouTube app has been relegated to nothing more than a web-shortcut.

I still fall back to Page's comments at I/O, I, along with thousands of others heard him say that there in the auditorium, and thousand more saw it in live blogs and live video.

Given that Google makes its money through the people that use its services (including through browsers on PCs), or even the "Music Manager" for PCs, it makes no sense to ignore people that would happily use those services through other platoforms.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 01:49 3

69. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

I haven't, don't worry. You're still in my good graces. :p

I agree that eventually it makes more sense financially for Google to play nice, but Microsoft has done more than hit them with barbs; Microsoft has committed to a continual smear campaign against Google. They know what they're doing; they play upon the fear of the ignorant to try to generate Windows Phone sales. Hell, I just took a Windows Phone training and they even said in there to position WP against Android and cite Android's "malware concerns."

posted on 15 Nov 2013, 22:42

60. Prabs (Posts: 21; Member since: 11 Feb 2012)

Excellent article! Microsoft will do to the mobile industry what it did with consoles. It won't go away and they are self sufficient outside the Google world. When they get more apps, I see myself getting a Windows phone. Having one company (Google) own all your info is not good for anyone. No matter how "not evil" they say they are...

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 02:39

70. jose.vu (Posts: 16; Member since: 28 Mar 2013)

nice article, I just kinda hate Google now, first they don't play nice with MS (it's ok), but now they force all youtuber to google + which seriously pisses me off ...

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 03:37

74. shreyas.s666 (Posts: 82; Member since: 24 Aug 2012)

why do ppl think google and steve jobs as jesus christ?

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 03:49

76. shreyas.s666 (Posts: 82; Member since: 24 Aug 2012)

Phonearena is no more good. its only filled with Google and apple fanboys.
Google is so pathetic why ppl even think it as jesus?

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 07:32

77. londoner (Posts: 34; Member since: 12 Sep 2013)

Very good article. Formany reasons IOS is getting stuck and is lossing costumers, WPis getting strong and solid. I hope this idiots from google turn serious and look wP as a real competitor.

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 09:01

80. ImperialDynamics (Posts: 51; Member since: 30 Nov 2012)

let me tell what's all about:
Apple and Google have totally incompatible strategies. iOS has one manufacturer, Android has many manufacturers.
The Windows Phone strategy is more similar to Android than iOS, "more compatible". Hence Google is more worried about Windows Phone than iOS

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 13:35

85. W.P._Android_in_that_Order (Posts: 208; Member since: 15 Feb 2012)

All I can say is, its all about the dollar bills

posted on 16 Nov 2013, 22:41 1

87. gallabk (Posts: 16; Member since: 06 Oct 2013)

With "scroogled" campaign, MS says Google is cheating/Stealing with its products. Then how in the name of god will MS accept the same Google apps in to its app store??? Just a thought. However if Google were really user friendly and customer oriented, they should connect users of all platforms. Give what the people want Google....

posted on 17 Nov 2013, 17:56

92. jroc74 (Posts: 6019; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)

You make a very good point with that first sentence.

MS goes out of its way to say Google mishandles our info, spies of us, ect and yet cries when Google services are blocked, handicapped, ect.

Cant have your cake and eat it too MS.

posted on 17 Nov 2013, 08:43

91. networkdood (Posts: 6330; Member since: 31 Mar 2010)

Microsoft is my far one of the evil companies of the world and they do a terrible job at marketing their products - of course they will not get along with Google - Google is a better ran company and Microsoft is a dinosaur in the making that is still around because so many companies depend on them - this will all change in the next 20-50 years and Microsoft knows this and feels threatened by Google.

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