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The power of the 1% over mobile devices (expandable memory and removable batteries)

0. phoneArena posted on 31 Mar 2012, 13:35

If there is anything that we try to do consistently, it is to point out that personal opinion does not equal one side of a right/wrong argument. There is a growing trend of manufacturers not including SD card slots or...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 15:28 6

23. chadrick0814 (unregistered)

I also don't think the ease of transferring data with an SD card can be overlooked. Its easier to move large files between tablets and phones with an sd card rather than the cloud. Its easier to get pictures developed from your phone by using the micro SD. Clouds were initially intended to back up data and not be a primary or secondary storage method. On long flights, overseas especially, you don't have cloud access and that's when you would most want you music and videos. Having an SD card slot doesn't deny anyone the right to use a cloud service. The intent is to force consumers to use the cloud. You pay the manufacturer for the service and the carrier for the data. Win-Win for them. Whether you choose to use a micro SD or not, how does it hurt the consumer to have one?

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:21 3

30. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

Well put, @chadrick0814 I been posting a million time exactly this. The more data they can force you to use, the more money they get. People, (99%) Fools are very comfortable with this new trend, or maybe don't travel at all. LOL! This BS about get with the program or get left behind. If so I am off the dam Android bus. LOL!

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 15:35 2

24. PostalJim (Posts: 46; Member since: 01 Sep 2011)

So, i will just have a limited number of phones to choose from. I guess I have no choice but to deal with it. Don't have to like it, but I do have to deal with it.

I LOVE being able to change out a battery, and to be able to record long videos on my sd card and just pop it my laptop and have it to edit, play share as I like. With no SD, if i shoot some videos and pics, then I am limited on what I can download or capture on my cam.

I like living without limits. Just can't bear the thought of a KILLER device that would make me settle like iPhone users. Had one. Liked it. Sold it. Android now.....soon...Windows Phone. Android is slowly dying unless Google can defrag their OS's and make everything update across the board as iOS and Windows do.

In 3 years, I can see Android being like Blackberry, an after thought......I hope they fix this before they lose the interest of all developers.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:25 1

31. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

Well put @PostalJim, I see this also in about 3 years. Oh, Android made his bed, now he has to sleep on it. LOL! I'm a Mac user, never owed an iPhone. I guess when the next one comes out, I can say I am 100% Apple user. LOL! Don't like, But that the way I will deal with this mess of Android trend. Oh yeah, I know I'm just 1%, LOL!

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 22:19 1

60. bayusuputra (Posts: 963; Member since: 12 Feb 2012)

haha! you always said that you will get out of this android trend blah blah blah.. but in case you are not intelligent enough, apple doesn't offer you removable battery and expandable storage.. oh, and that iCloud, it is governed by apple, i am not really sure how secure it is, whether apple accesses your data or not.. usually the bigger the brand is, the more control it has over you.. i am less sceptical on dropbox or box.net, and best of all, i can share them across ALL devices, whether mine, or not..

and this is for you personally: LOL!

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 23:11 1

63. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

intelligent enough to have phoneareana write about this because of my direct email to them, LOL! I am aware of iCrap iPhone flaws, Hence the reason I LOVE Android you fool, My point is if my only choice is this crap of no removable battery or expansion, then I will go with the BEST! Apple iPhone and cloud service. It is as NY Times put it extremely secure. Large hard drive in the iPhone. So I am aware...

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 15:55 3

25. remixfa (Posts: 14605; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

"Beyond that, we're also learning that leaving your device on a charger all night after the battery has hit 100% can be quite bad for the lifetime health of your battery. The extra heat from being left on a charger after the battery is full can cause irreparable damage to your battery, and depending on how hot the battery gets, you could lose more than 35% of your battery's capacity over the course of a year. So, it may be better overall to charge your phone more frequently, but not to full capacity each time. "

I just wanted to point out that my general training in this area+ everything I've read disagrees with a chunk of this statement.

Li-Ion batteries, if you want to think of them in 1 way, have a finite amount of charges before the cell just wont charge anymore. Depending on the quality of the battery it could be a low number (400-700) or a high number (700+). The numbers I gave were not hard numbers, but just for demostration.
Every time you plug in the phone, thats 1 charge. So, charging it often yet incompletely doesnt help your longevity as you are wearing down the charging cell more quickly than normal. On the reverse side of the equasion you have the people that charge it nightly. The point you missed that hurts the battery even more than the heat from charging, is leaving it on all night. Again, not because of the heat, but because just about every phone in existance stops charging when it gets at or near 100%, then stops the charge... when the charge gets so low, like at 90% for example, it charges again. This cycle repeats over and over and over again until you unplug the phone. Thus, every time it turns itself off and then on again, is a charge cycle.. which as I just mentioned, reduces battery life.

The only real option for battery longevity (and the least realistic) is to charge it fully, then pull it off the plug until its empty from use and repeat. The only way to do that realistically if you have a life at all, is to carry multiple batteries. So basically, no matter what, we are screwed. :)

Side question, didnt the Sprint OneX have some massive 2500mah battery in it? I swear I remember seeing that somewhere.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:31 1

33. biophone (Posts: 1994; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)

Lol didn't see your post till after i posted. Well then i guess 400-700 charges should last about 2 years right in time for a new phone.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 17:59 1

47. remixfa (Posts: 14605; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

ha, thats if your not charging it more than once a day, or leaving it on all night, where it probably stops and recharges 2-5 times. bottom line, we are screwed no matter what :)

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 18:46 1

49. rallyguy (Posts: 620; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)

Yes you are right. It supposedly has a 2650 mah battery.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:01 3

26. trunkmonkey (Posts: 6; Member since: 31 Mar 2012)

I don't believe in the 1% "theory". 10 years ago yes this was true, but the "internet generation" is of age now. I tend to believe there are far more than 1% now a days. I can't imagine 1% put enough pressure on some mobile companies to release roms for devices they did not plan on or change their policy on bootloaders. If so then I hope the 1% pressures companies to continue to release devises with at least removable storage or at least include different skus like Apple 16GB is not alright for many. Some people are not around "secured" wifi and have capped data plans. A non removeable battery I do not like, but can live with..

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:04 3

27. remixfa (Posts: 14605; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

I use google voice for all my music needs. Its very convenient. Especially since i have ALL of my music, everywhere I can get to a PC or anything with android on it. Having G+ back up all my pictures is awesome as well, especially since I flip roms so much.

That said, if they are going to get rid of memory cards, then 32 needs to be the "basic" and 64 needs to be more common. If i can get on amazon and pick up a 32gig card for 10 bux at retail, it cant cost them more than a couple of bux at most with their scales of economy wholesale buying. There is no excuse.
The real reason is they can price gouge the way apple does. Apple charges 100 bux more for 32gb of internal memory, which again only costs them a few bux a pop. With Android costing manufacturers money in licencing fees and lawyer costs, its a way to recoup the money by making the phones more expensive.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:48 2

36. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)

I totally agree with you. And Motorola has led the way charging at least $100 more to put in a big battery, so they apparently have no intention of appropriately representing that cost to the customer either.

Until that changes (or the battery they put in it lasts several days), I will eagerly seek phones that offer both features.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 23:36 1

72. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

Dude, Amen, That is what I am saying, however we are just 1%, The 99% fool are happy go lucky with 3G, no expansion slots or no removable battery. These fool giving me flack, it is so funny how these 99% that came off the short bus are allow to even be the 99%. Oh well...

posted on 01 Apr 2012, 03:53 2

84. remixfa (Posts: 14605; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

edit, that should say "i use google music". lolz: )

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:28

32. biophone (Posts: 1994; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)

Question: don't our phones stop charging at 100% so we can charge them for loger periods of time and it starts back up again at 95%?

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:51 1

37. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)

I believe he used a recent iPad article to propose this idea. I have had 2 batteries for over 2 years (one on a wall charger unless I was using it for travel or a long day away from power), and I have not experienced any degradation.

Until I see a reference to a more scientific analysis of the battery technology than "the Apple people say it's bad for you", I would take this with a big grain of marketing. I mean, salt.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:33 5

34. jwl3429 (Posts: 36; Member since: 28 Sep 2009)

no SD slot is all well and go but if that was the case when my droid incredible went into a rebooting loop and needed a hard reset I would have lost everything. The phones need to be more stable for me to trust them without an SD card

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 16:45 6

35. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)

I too see that the cloud is the future, but data prices do not accomodate moving fully to the cloud right now. It's not about the hardware or devices, or even trust in security; it's about the carriers and coverage. My dad doesn't know what the cloud is; but he knows damn well when he can't get his info on the golf course in the middle of nowhere. When he asks me why he can't get it and I explain it, he wants to know how to put that on the phone so he never has to worry about it again.

They aren't building the cloud for me. I get it. I have Google Music. I'm cool with it. They're building the cloud for the 99%, and those people aren't going to like what they get if it is forced on them today.

Having everything in the cloud 3-5 years from now when data is sold at $1 per gig per month and the carriers have coverage penetration into thick brick buildings and out to rural areas will be cool. Having it now with limited coverage and expensive data plans is just plain dumb. Manufacturer's don't know how much space a user will need to perform typical storage, and the SD card solves that problem. As others have said, no SD is only practical (but not cost-effective) if there are multiple SKUs with varied storage, but that is not what we're seeing.

And as far as batteries go, I am totally fine with a built in battery. The problem is that devices do not make it a whole day without recharging or swapping. When you are travelling and have limited charging options and are roaming (sucking more battery), the principle of simplicity or whatever design paradigm led you to that choice fails the test of real-life usage. This is not 1% of users.

And if you are concerned about the cost of an additional battery (mine was $40 with trickle charger for 30% more charge than the original), try comparing what a manufacturer charges for a high capacity battery SKU or increased storage.

The iPhone is the single most successful device of the past 3 years. Guess which phones have sat atop the battery life charts during the vast majority of that time and offered the most built-in storage? People are satisfied with that device for many reasons, but I would argue a big one is decent battery life and big storage for those who choose.

The 1% get in line and make these phones desireable. A good chunk of the 99% buy them as a result of popularity, and the manufacturers know that.

Anyway, I agree this trend is fine. Built-in storage is fine when those of us who need more can buy a phone with more storage. Built-in battery is fine when the phones run 2+ days on a single charge. Unfortunately, that is not the reality of the market. I don't think it's a 1% thing. It's either a lack of understanding of consumer's needs, or a failure of execution.

posted on 01 Apr 2012, 05:21

87. little75bacon (Posts: 2; Member since: 01 Apr 2012)

i agree totally with you the cloud didn't allows yet a reasonable priced acces to your data... maybe when the carriers will be change the over priced data plans that we need to pay today the cloud becomes a option for us.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 17:02 2

40. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

Well put!!

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 17:07 5

41. redrooster13 (Posts: 110; Member since: 20 Feb 2012)

OK so I have never heard of anyone going in a store and not buying a phone because it as a removable battery and a micro sd card slot. But I have heard of people going in the store and not buying a phone because it didn't have a removable battery and no micro sd card slot.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 17:12 4

42. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)

Hah! Good point. One argument that is continually trotted out (since the first iPhone) is that putting MicroSD slots in them would require the phones to be thicker.

See the Droid RAZR for the case-in-point refutation of that marketing BS.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 17:16 3

43. redrooster13 (Posts: 110; Member since: 20 Feb 2012)

Yeah there is not thickness added for microSD. That is a load of crap.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 23:13 3

64. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

Well put, Amen!!!

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 17:31 8

45. _PHug_ (Posts: 463; Member since: 11 Oct 2011)

If they gave us 2800+ mah battery, I don't need a replaceable.
If they gave me 64GB internal mem, I don't need expansion.

Is that what they give me? Nope

They skimp on important stuff like that so they can focus on looks.

Uni-body 6mm thin frame? Sell that crap to the morons, I want the overweight version with 64GBs and a 3600mah battery.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 18:53 2

51. rallyguy (Posts: 620; Member since: 13 Mar 2012)

I totally agree.

posted on 01 Apr 2012, 08:29

92. jabberwocky (Posts: 89; Member since: 21 Feb 2012)

OMG that phone sounds totally ugly...

but I think I might just buy it.

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 18:50 1

50. ChiX017 (Posts: 308; Member since: 09 Nov 2011)

Windows Phone is future proof; dosn't support SD cards and Skydrive is just getting better! :D

posted on 31 Mar 2012, 20:25 6

55. lukasound (Posts: 152; Member since: 16 Nov 2011)

There is absolutely no reason not to have removable batteries in phones. Loading mechanisms? Please... Covers can be made ultra thin and easy to remove - look at SGS2. The only reason is to force people to come to them and not ebay for replacement after a year or two!

And as for memory - can't you see what is happening in the world with peoples privacy and file sharing abilities??? The only reason i see to not put the SD card slot (which is practically free and doesn't take space) is to control people's data and run statistics on us! Music in the cloud? How about police knocking at my door after i upload my new Madonna album to Dropbox? Automatic photo uploading? They will be able to see even the photos i make accidentally! And data plans are a whole different reason for why not...

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