Qualcomm late 2015 roadmap leaks out: 14nm FinFet Snapdragon 820 surfaces, 'Taipan' Krait successor due

Qualcomm’s roadmap for the second half of 2015 seems to have leaked out in its entirety, a leak revealing many juicy details about what the best devices of 2015 could run on…
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109 Comments

35. Gp_Customs

Posts: 269; Member since: Jan 14, 2015

Arm A15 CPU are to powerful St 10Twp, you will need 5000mah battery on a phone to achieve insanse CPU power. Snapdragon S805 S810 are at 5twp. What good is S810 if there's no pure power, Qualcomm elives in efficiency, exynos and Tegra believe in pure raw hard core power. Its like Ferrari lambo the exynos snapdragon the slow BMW mercs. Are you telling me you wouldn't take the fast Ferrari Porsche lambo, but take the slow BMW Merc?

47. TylerGrunter

Posts: 1544; Member since: Feb 16, 2012

If it saves my battery life yes. But you are forgetting somehing> A8 chips have an even more powerful cores than a15 (or even A57) and still are friendly on the battery. So it's clear big.LITLLE is not the only solution, in fact there are probably better ones.

49. AfterShock

Posts: 4146; Member since: Nov 02, 2012

A8 20nm advantage mind you.

51. TylerGrunter

Posts: 1544; Member since: Feb 16, 2012

What about A7? Built in 28nm, with still one the highest single thread perfomance (except for Denver) and running on phones and tablets with less battery capacity than the competition and same or mor battery life.

69. AfterShock

Posts: 4146; Member since: Nov 02, 2012

Good point, its single is outstanding as well, but held back by GPU today. If it had GPU grunt to match, it'd be limited to tablets instead of 5s, as it would eat battery for breakfast. For gpu only thing from apple is a8x off screen test, or on screen iphone6 with low resolution, an it is still trounced if you see how low its resolution is to top dogs.

106. ihatelife

Posts: 3; Member since: Jan 20, 2015

Yeah, there are. But people won't buy Samsung Galaxy S6 with dual core processor when LG G4 comes with eight core processor. Each of those two cores are quite big, much bigger than A15.

50. ilxxxli

Posts: 13; Member since: Oct 23, 2013

This GP_Customs guy is going crazy over Samsung Exynos and NVIDIA tegras. Honestly, if you want to compare raw power, I will compare an Intel Xeon with any exynos or tegra on CPU and discrete graphic card (as I'm currently using AMD 290x) with any adreno or Mali or etc. Look at Rockchip 3288 or Allwinner... they all use core A53 and core A17, and Mali T7xx. HOWEVER, their performance are "dreamy", bloat on the benchmark, horrible optimization.

67. roldefol

Posts: 4744; Member since: Jan 28, 2011

Some people just like to tear down the king. Called them Crapdragon until the Krait came, conquered, and shut them up. Now they're here to tear it down again. Qualcomm has an enormous moneymaker in Snapdragon. Is the 810 a stopgap product? Absolutely. Will the 815 and 820 kick it to the curb? Most likely. And in the meantime, QC will keep its lucrative market share.

54. ngo2dd

Posts: 896; Member since: Jul 08, 2011

That just mean it is a bad chip design. The baytrail for Intel cpu is just as good as the A15 and does not required a big.little confirmation to run.

92. cheetah2k

Posts: 2198; Member since: Jan 16, 2011

Its well known Samsung's big little processors were considerably flawed in their design in the early days, and that's probably because they were the first to licence and implement big little into their fab. Qualcomm acknowledged this, but continued with quad cores because their was not much performance gain to be had, and re-tooling costs couldn't be justified. I would guess now that big little has matured (thanks to Samsung) Qualcomm can see the benefit in running that architecture. So yes, Samsung were the first to implement a flawed technology that offered little in the way of performance benefit - and came with limited LTE band support which meant it was actually behind the 8 ball offering only H+ data speeds in 98% of the world :)..

15. wargreymon

Posts: 764; Member since: Nov 05, 2013

With some luck, maybe we can see these introduced at MWC, or we will have to wait until April like last year when SD808/810 were introduced.

17. Settings

Posts: 2943; Member since: Jul 02, 2014

Just a simple question. How is Mediatek compared to Snapdragon? All I know is MTK's selling point is affordable SoC but can it compete in par with Snapdragon?

39. wargreymon

Posts: 764; Member since: Nov 05, 2013

MT use Cortex-A53 mostly and usually older and cheaper GPUs. Unless they start using the real stuff they will always be behind. Even if they can look like they are close on some benchmarks.

43. AfterShock

Posts: 4146; Member since: Nov 02, 2012

That 6595 an 6795 came out of nowhere seemingly. They could challenge big boys pretty quickly.

59. Suo.Eno

Posts: 556; Member since: Feb 17, 2013

From looking at this leak's potential flustercuck, I'd say wth let's also root for MediaTek, Rockchip, Allwinner, Samsung and hell yes Intel.

73. AfterShock

Posts: 4146; Member since: Nov 02, 2012

Nuclun, Hisilicone, Kirin,..just filling gaps. Not really rooting for an underdog here.

18. vuyonc

Posts: 1089; Member since: Feb 24, 2014

Now I don't know if I should wait until late 2015 or early 2016 for my next phone. Stahp Qualcomm!

19. aryanfr1

Posts: 125; Member since: Jan 24, 2013

There goes everyone snap dragon 810 fantasy. Not a new thing from Qualcomm, 805 had not even stepped in the smartphone ecosystem 810 came and now 820.

75. wargreymon

Posts: 764; Member since: Nov 05, 2013

Snapdragon 805 was never supposed to have a big presence. Qualcomm and OEMs new long ahead that SD810 would be ready soon after SD805. It was just a smaller stepping stone.

81. roldefol

Posts: 4744; Member since: Jan 28, 2011

SD805 has two purposes, really: QHD screens and LTE-A. Otherwise it's not much different from the 800/801. Most of the phone makes will leapfrog it to the 810.

23. CreeDiddy

Posts: 2135; Member since: Nov 04, 2011

Apple is still ahead of the curve in terms of die size and performance. The A9 (rumored) to have the 14nm. The A9 and A10 should be truly remarkable in comparison to the 815 and 820. The A8X gave us a preview of what the A9 is capable of doing. The A9 should improve on those numbers by 25-35% with increased battery efficiency. I expect the 810 to fall short of the A8X performance in CPU performance. However, the GPU should be fairly good.

28. Gp_Customs

Posts: 269; Member since: Jan 14, 2015

Nvidia’s latest Tegra K1 implementation matches the 2.5GHz clock speeds of the Snapdragons, but is a much stranger beast. The Denver CPU architecture is more of a high-performance general purpose CPU that works like an interpreter for the ARMv8 code-base. While this sounds suboptimal in terms of performance, Nvidia has fitted its Denver CPU cores with a large 128MB memory cache to store optimized code in.

29. Gp_Customs

Posts: 269; Member since: Jan 14, 2015

The A8 is only good at single core performance, what good is that, when the OS needs dual, then couple if years time it will use quad core. A8 is average in all other segments, only good at single core. The Denver kicks the A,8 butts.

36. Iodine

Posts: 1474; Member since: Jun 19, 2014

A8 can match the K1 respectably, the denver K1 is only about 10% faster on CPU and 60% faster on GPU. But Tegra K1 requires a heatspreader thanks to some hefty TDP of 5 to 10W while Apple A8 runs at less than 3W TDP (actually less than A7) in some ultra thin phones with relativelly small bateries. So for such Low powered chip, A8 delivers insane performance that leaves tegra in dust.

42. jove39

Posts: 2143; Member since: Oct 18, 2011

I agree to fact...A8 > K1 for performance/watt...Nvidia figured this quickly...that's why X1 have stock ARM (A53 & A57) cores...Nvidia engineers are back to drawing board to develop successor of denver core.

45. AfterShock

Posts: 4146; Member since: Nov 02, 2012

20nm versus 28nm. A8X is not really that optimized if older stuff can match it yet.

46. AfterShock

Posts: 4146; Member since: Nov 02, 2012

Oops sorry, to clarify 32bit K1 not 64bit Denver K1.

60. Gp_Customs

Posts: 269; Member since: Jan 14, 2015

The Tegra K1 Denver is a dual core CPU which handily beats the Apple A8X on single core and dual core CPU Geekbench3 benchmarks, and these are what really matter for real life performance - which is why Apple has focussed of dual core performance in the past while others have used quad core processors. The reason is that UI responsiveness is primarily dependent on single core performance, and most apps do not spawn enough execution threads to make full use of more than 2 cores, especially smartphone/tablet apps. What has happened here is that Apple's made their most advanced chip to go into the iPhone 6 - the A8 - and made that a dual core 64 bit ARM chip, and built it in the most advanced production available right now (20nm FinFET instead of 28nm planar which everybody else is using). The difference move to 20nm FinFET from 28nm planar should produce a 50% increase in speed. Then along comes nVidia with cleverly designed dual 64bit ARM chip on a cheap 28nm planar process with fewer transistors, which trounces the A8 on both performance and cost by increasing the number of operations that can be carried out in parallel on a single core. Apple's response? add "go-faster" stripes onto the beaten A8 in the form of an extra core to produce the three core A8X, in order to win bragging rights on the 3 core multi-core GeekBench score, followed by massive bragging and hype. What about the GFXBenchmarks which seem to put Apple's A8X ahead? Well, that seems to have been cherry picked by Apple to make the A8X look good. They picked the GFX benchmarks which are rather less well known as opposed to the FutureMark gaming benchmarks which are widely recognised and give a broader indication of GPU performance than the GFX benchmarks. The Tegra K1's GPU beats the A8X by a considerable margin (about 33% faster) on the FutureMark benchmarks, but performs particularly badly on GFX benchmarks. This may be something to do with the current OpenGL drivers, as the Tegra K1 trounces the A8X on the broader based FutureMark benchmarks. The thing that really stands out here about the Tegra K1 though, is the fact that it manages to match and even best Apple's A8X in terms of real life performance with a chip which is based on the older, cheaper and slower 28nm planar process, and with fewer transistors. While Apple has shifted to 20nm to try to get an advantage over its rivals, its competitors have skipped the 20nm node to go straight to 14nm/16nm when it is available. Imagine what happens in Q3 2015 when all vendors will be shifting their premium devices to 14nm/16nm - Apple's processor speed will increase by about 40%, while the Tegra K1 will approximately double in speed. In parallel with that, nVidia will still have the 28nm planar Tegra K1 version which will be far cheaper to produce than either 20nm or 14nm/16nm chips for the mass market.

72. ngo2dd

Posts: 896; Member since: Jul 08, 2011

Err no the Denver was better then the A8 which was in the iPhone 6 but is slower then the A8X which is in the iPad air two. You still don't know what you are talking about.http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/14/10/28/apples-a8x-powers-ipad-air-2-graphics-faster-than-googles-nexus-9-with-nvidia-denver-tegra-k1

65. Gp_Customs

Posts: 269; Member since: Jan 14, 2015

but Apple's in-house ARM CPU design is about a year and half ahead of the rest of the industry. I'm not sure I would say that, Apple and Qualcomm/Mediatek/ARM (Their cortex series) are just pursuing different objectives. Apple want a big, wide core with a great single-threaded performance, everyone else want some small cores that don't use much power, so they can put 4 or 8 of those in a single cpu. I do believe that Apple is the right one here (most of the common workload don't scale well across many cores), but I think everyone else could catch quite fast if they wanted to (but they'd have to start selling single/dual cores cpu, and this kill the marketing) by just implementing some "low-hanging fruits" (OoO, wider, bigger cache...)
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