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Nokia's debt downgraded to less than junk

0. phoneArena posted on 05 Jul 2013, 21:19

How potentially worthless is debt issued by Nokia? After the Finnish based handset manufacturer purchased the half of a joint network equipment venture owned by Siemens for $2.2 billion, S&P lowered its rating on Nokia debt by one notch from BB- to B+; Nokia's debt was already at junk levels before the downgrade. Bonds rated at that level or lower are not allowed in the portfolios of certain bond funds...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 21:24 3

1. zekes (Posts: 229; Member since: 14 Aug 2012)

look like palm be4 they went down but i love NOKIA u can come up and palm come back WEOS

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 23:17 11

31. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)

S&P is basically worthless and corrupt, and it's always best to try and ignore their absurd mutterings. That is exactly what investors have done, pushing NOK beyond four dollars. It will move even higher next week, because nobody cares about the S&P, given that their downgrades are rarely legit. Besides, if the rumors turn out to be true, then Microsoft is likely to be on the recieving end of the handset business, and then Nokia will become a pureplay company, just like Ericsson...

Most Nokia Stock holders are not afraid, and expect that NOK will continue to rise in value as it pushes towards Q2 earnings on July 18th.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 06:41

72. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

I believe WebOS is pretty much dead and buried. HP isn't going to try to support it and get it off the ground when a company like blackberry is struggling with its own OS, especially when other successful OS options are available. As far as I know HP isn't even making any handsets right now.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 10:24 1

87. akki20892 (Posts: 3902; Member since: 04 Feb 2013)

EOS EOS EOS EOS.......Zoom it and take moon photo......!!!

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 14:23

97. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)

And don't limit it to just the 2nd largest carrier in the U.S.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 10:44

89. AppleHateBoy (unregistered)

I would love to see Nokia use their 41 megapixel Pureview tech to make a Point and shoot camera that costs 300$ and comes with 10x optical zoom, with OIS and other camera features.

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 21:26 1

2. NakedSnake (Posts: 4; Member since: 07 Jun 2013)

Nokia -> Android. Stop.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 04:34 1

68. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 4321; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)

Um...i like Nokia and everything that comes with it. But comparing an OEM with an OS is not a fair thing to do.
If you also mean WP>Android, that wouldn't be fair either. Both are good in their own way.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 14:56 1

100. NakedSnake (Posts: 4; Member since: 07 Jun 2013)

What I meant, is that the only actual way for Nokia to save itself, is to go with Android for its top smartphones. That was an arrow to the right anyway, not an "higher than" sign.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 22:11 1

103. Nathan_ingx (Posts: 4321; Member since: 07 Mar 2012)

Well, the snake was naked so i couldn't see through. :P

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 21:26 2

3. JojoGo101 (Posts: 211; Member since: 17 Dec 2012)

It has come to this? If your the Chief Executive Officer, shouldn't you be doing something to bring profits?

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 21:36 16

4. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

Stephen elop always has a smile on his face. No matter how serious things are, cause MS is paying him under the table!


posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:06 10

8. fsnas (Posts: 104; Member since: 18 Jun 2012)

you don't know the guy's intentions.
don't talk bad about him like that, it's not ethical!

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:14 11

12. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

He's a 3 times failure as a ceo in his past record.®

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:21 10

15. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

The guy who killed his own 5 OS. And your telling me not to talk bad about him. Jesus christ. Are you that unaware. The guy who sold his own headquarter and vertu and laid of thousands of poor workers. Yea pos he is more like.®

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:25 6

19. xperiaDROID (banned) (Posts: 5629; Member since: 08 Mar 2013)

Oh please, Elop didn't kill anything, Symbian is dying before Elop joined Nokia. Can you stop posting sh1* comments?

I think you should work at Foxconn, TROLL.

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:31 15

22. PapaSmurf (Posts: 10457; Member since: 14 May 2012)

"... Symbian [was] dying before Elop joined Nokia."

Sorry, it was bothering me.

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 22:52 5

26. TROLL (banned) (Posts: 4851; Member since: 13 Apr 2012)

When eflop took over Nokia was on noch below perfect this at time of global economies crisis when most Nokia rivals were reporting loses- the reasons why those credit rating downgraded Nokia was because of those Nokia lumia phones were bad, because there were no carrier support. The retail support was lacking. Carriers refuse to sell Nokia wp!

Elop who rather when he had four smartphone oses platform killed, all 3 that were popular and loved by Nokia users, and now insist on contuning with the platform that is most hated of all smartphone platform production. No other windows partner is foolish enough to put all their eggs in this broken basket. But eflop is! This is yet more proof that eflop is not acting in Nokia's best interest and must be fired right now. ®

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 23:26 4

34. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)

Hey TROLL, how'd yah like the drop in Samsung's stock value? It seems like the S4 is something of a flop ;o)

posted on 05 Jul 2013, 23:46 8

38. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)

Its not flop
They just missed the forcasted shipmemts
But still 20 million has been sold which is much faster than s3
what about lumia??
2011+2012+2013 sales= less than 15 or may be 10 million

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 00:18 3

42. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)

Did you know that the drop in Samsung stock was roughly the same value as Sony's worth? You can say what you like about Nokia, but Sammy's products are over-priced and over-hyped, and that's why the stock has dropped like a rock...

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 00:30 6

44. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Ok, fanboyism is one thing... But what you just said borders on lunacy. The Galaxy S4... a flop? Come on now, you can do better than that.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 00:37 2

45. UrbanPhantom (Posts: 949; Member since: 30 Oct 2012)

Unfortunately, Sammy missed expectations because the S4 didn't sell as well as was hoped. Investors were simply not very impressed, which triggered a MASSIVE drop in the value of Samsung stock...

The numbers don't lie ;o)

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 00:42 5

48. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)

Even if they missed it
Still they will post a huge profit in comparison to last q2 2012
And gs4 has already sold 20 million
AsK nokia what is 20 million :D
Because they just dream of that figures :D

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 02:03

56. user996 (Posts: 221; Member since: 25 Feb 2013)

realy? how many percent of phones (in general, not only smartphone or so) is Nokia in whole world? can you say?

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 02:31 3

59. MachidoDen (banned) (Posts: 202; Member since: 30 May 2013)

Nokia not even on top 5 in smartphone :D
Buy lumia and help nokia alone :D

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 03:33 1

64. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)

well its obvious samsung got overconfident with their SGS4 and made it of cheap stuff and produced way more then what they could sell and they didnt got all of them sold out

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 04:41 2

69. Pedro0x (Posts: 271; Member since: 19 Oct 2012)

I agree that they got overconfident, I don´t think Samsung expected that competion would be that strong (htc one). But I do not agree that SGS4 is made up from cheap stuff. It is made up from polycarbonate, same as all lumias, but lumias are just thicker so it makes them feel more durable. Bigger battery than everyone else in smaller body, better internals than for example htc one and way better than all lumias. Samsung made a mistake with not putting S800 in SGS4 or should have worked better on their octa SoC(its drivers need fixing). But as you can see customers do not care, 20 million sold in two months, that is fantastic.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 06:37 2

71. -box- (Posts: 3991; Member since: 04 Jan 2012)

Let's look at history here, kiddos. Picture it: Earth, pre-2010. Nokia is selling more than 100 million phones per year, and its next closest rivals are NOWHERE close to that. However, like all leaders, sometimes there is a fall from grace as things go unchanged, and plans set in motion tests before bear fruit, but the plans made to succeed the now-met goals don't match the reality of the changing world situation. A change is needed, a drastic one, and while using an in-house OS has worked for years, and another company is doing well with their own, it will be too expensive and waste too much time to bring it to market, and.even then success is not guaranteed, nor is support from developers. Enter a few candidate alternatives: First choice: go with the OS that has recently become mainstream and has good growth potential, it is highly unpolished, somewhat chaotic, and, excepting developer support in North America - the then-biggest market for cell phones - has a worse customer and corporate experience than the existing OS the company uses, especially as it needs expensive cutt.ing-edge components to operate even somewhat well, and is also the subject of several lawsuits, costs royalty money to avoid more lawsuits, and the OS company cannot or will not help the world's biggest handset maker with the conversion. Second choice: continue developing own in-house OS, which has some great features, but little development support, few standout features, and has been so grossly mismanaged it is almost an embarrassment. Third choice: jump on the bandwagon with a few other OEMs who are developing a near new OS, but won't have true smartphone capability until at least halfway through the decade, if then. Fourth option: work with the biggest name in computers and software to have their new, tested, and very modern OS as the future of the company's smartphones, while receiving billions in dollars in assistance to help during the conversion, and lots of development support, as well as the freedom and power too help make future OS versions even better and live up to the handset manufacturer's legendary reputation. Fifth option: gradually sell off handset business, and subsist as just a patent-rich R&D lab, selling licenses for all shareable technology, while leaving the largest and most loyal mobile customer base to go with a less-satisfying competitor, while diluting and decreasing the quality of devices worldwide. Along with all the options comes the burden of paring down a bloated bureaucracy and clearing out excess positions and wasteful departments and employees to minimize spending as much as possible.

I know which I would choose.

posted on 06 Jul 2013, 07:15 2

76. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Would that be the path of least resistance? Because that's not what Nokia did, and they're paying for it right now. Two OSs would have been the best option but hey, it's M$'s company to ruin now, or it will be soon.

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