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Mobile Competition Part 2: Great Artists Steal

0. phoneArena posted on 03 Oct 2011, 11:24

We've already looked at the strengths and weaknesses of each mobile platform, so now it's time to examine the overall competition in the market and what each company is aiming for...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 03 Oct 2011, 16:52 1

118. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

Yeah, I learned that lesson with Apple when I had the iPhone 3G and had to wait for cut/paste. I'm not forgiving to Apple's strategy, that's why I don't personally buy the products. But, I understand why Apple does it, and why it won't change any time soon. When you buy an Apple product, you know it will excel in certain aspects: smoothest navigation/gestures, as yet the best display on the market, still one of the best cameras on the market, and amazing integration with other Apple products (iTunes, Apple TV, etc.) If you went into the iPhone 4, knowing that widgets had been on competing devices for years, but still weren't on the iPhone, how can you complain that the iPhone doesn't have widgets? That's like complaining because there's no SD card slot or removable battery on an iPhone. You should know what you're getting into, and if you make a mistake, sell it and get something you like. I bought my iPhone 3G in August of 2008 for $299, and got bored with the complete lack of customization available, so I sold it in March of 2010 for $300 on Craigslist, and picked up a Nexus One.

I'm a big proponent of the idea that if you don't like what you've got, change it, don't bitch about it.

posted on 04 Oct 2011, 00:43

128. ilia1986 (unregistered)

Well Michael, as I said earlier - Apple WAS moving in the right direction in iOS 4 - bringing more customization options. So I assumed that they would continue the trend. I was just way too optimistic about it.

As for the change-if-you-don't-like-it thingy - again - different people live in different countries. Israel does not have 299$ iPhones available for sale. Even not on contract. And we don't have Craigslist either. Sure, I could sell my iPhone 4 right now as a second-hand device - for about 1500 NIS which are ~ 400$. But to buy let's say a Galaxy S 2 - I would need at least 2500 NIS. Which are ~675$. The deal you described in your post - it doesn't work this way here.

But yeah I agree that bitching about something ain't gonna help. I still would like to think that I made the right decision back in the day. Hopefully by the time I will get the $$$ for a serious upgrade - and decide to buy an Android device - Android will still be relevant.

I seem to have a tendency to purchase devices which at the time seemed like a good decision - but turned out to be lackluster several months later.

I bought the Samsung E250, thinking it to be a cool looking "3G slider" - my first phone with a camera - only to discover there is no 3G, and the camera is 0.3MP unlike the 2MP cameras available at the time.

I later bought the Nokia 5800, thinking that I finally have a device with a touchscreen (and I though of course that a touch screen means millions of apps, games, and silky smooth internet browsing) and a real camera. I mean - it's Nokia! It can't disappoint, right? Wrong!! I shudder at the memory of using a resistive screen, or the crime-against-humanity which was S60v5. And the camera wasn't very good either.

After that I began doing some serious cell phone research. Reading dozens of reviews, watching hundreds of YouTube videos about all kinds of phones ranging from simple Nokia phones to Windows Mobile phones to iPhones to anything else out there.

After deciding that Apple is best in 2010 - I bought the iPhone 4 - thinking that finally - I have a phone which will suit me in every aspect there is. And because Android is such a dangerous competitor - Apple will surely improve the customization aspects of their device. Again - I was wrong.

I seem to be having a bad luck of either assuming too much - or knowing too little at a certain point at the time of the purchasing decision.

Let's hope that when I buy the Samsung Galaxy S3 or whatever will be in store @ 2012 - Google won't decide to dismantle Android a few months later. Or that another company won't come with a technology to communicate with the phone via telepathy - and that Google won't decide to not include it in Android because it's "Not the Google way".

posted on 04 Oct 2011, 11:46 1

133. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

I'd hardly call wallpapers and folders "customization options". Everyone has bad luck with tech purchases sometimes. My first two computers were Sony Vaios, so I'm pretty sure I got all my bad luck out of the way with those.

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 15:01

35. gallitoking (Posts: 4721; Member since: 17 May 2011)

thank you Michael... and watch how ilia is taking a page out of Sniggly playbook...

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 15:02 4

36. ilia1986 (unregistered)

I believe that when it comes to the mobile industry consumer debate - to "take a page out of a Sniggly playbook" is the highest compliment ever to be given.

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 15:17 4

41. Sniggly (Posts: 7305; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)

*trying not to let my ego get the best of me* Thanks ilia. :)

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 00:09 3

60. remixfa (Posts: 14604; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

notice how gallito takes out of "tacos playbook" and says something without adding a single thing to the conversation. lol.

i get what everyone is trying to say, but I do tend to side with sniggly on this one. Simply not giving apple our money isnt enough. There are too many gallito sized idiots out there willing to fork over every dime they make to get into the "cool" apple atmosphere for apple to pay attention to those that dont. Their profit margins are too high. Honestly, i dont think its "we " the consumers that need to rise, but they " the manufacturers" that need to start demanding better wages and satisfactory working conditions. That will take a huge chunk out of Foxconn, which will then be passed to Apple. Apple has a deaf ear to EVERYONE. We as consumers are by and large choosing android. Apple countered this by blatantly stealing many of android's features for iOS5... baked.. half baked.. no baked...stolen.
They arent innovating, and they arent listening. They are making too much profit to hear anything. Too many people will blindly just buy the next iphone for nothing more than the label of doing so. Apple needs to be hit in both the supply end and the demand end to realize it needs to change its game up.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 00:41

62. biophone (Posts: 1994; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)

Read the article because it destroys your argument. This changed my whole opinion about IP. With technology you have to build on ideas and bring your own parts of that idea. For example android took the app store and built on that. Which is ok. With the design part of technology you gotta be orginal though. You cant build on someone elses design. Thats why samsung who copied apples design is not ok. Even after steve jobs trued to negiotate with them they refused and in that case legal action must be taken. Look its ok to copy and build upon it but to blatently steal apple's charger and make it black is just a slap in the face. However apples lawsuit with htc are completly bogus based on nothing but some trivial features as those phones could not look more different. As far as working conditions it cant be just apple but the entire technology industry must be helping to aid workers in china. Its a broken system there and to just blame apple complelty ignores the problem.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 06:14

70. remixfa (Posts: 14604; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

actually, you have it backward bio.

apple is suing samsung for look-a-like. Not illegal

Apple is suing HTC for some code that they use in Sense.

having similar, but not the same, designs is not illegal. patent infringement is.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 10:49

75. ngo2dd (Posts: 896; Member since: 08 Jul 2011)

Dude you are wrong, the IP that apple won on is not on sense but android that is why Apple name the nexus one in it law suit.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 16:44

88. remixfa (Posts: 14604; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

If it was just android, they would be going after every android manufacturer and google with the same lawsuit. they are not. If its not in "Sense", then its still something added by HTC

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 12:41

82. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

Having design similar enough to cause confusion for consumers is illegal actually. That's why cheap knockoffs are illegal. Samsung has just removed "cheap" from the equation.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 16:48

89. remixfa (Posts: 14604; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

I disagree. By that standard, then apple needs to be banned by not only LG but by Samsung as well. Samsung released a touch phone before the iphone with that very design, and lets not even talk about the LG prada.

A cheap knock off like those cPhones (chineese knock off iphones) tries to emulate the look of the iphone inside and out. It doesnt just take a few design cues, it takes the design and everything else it can to try to mimic the iphone. Samsung is not trying to mimic the iphone in every way. It (the SGS1) looks like a 3GS, (which looked like an LG Prada), which wasnt the current iphone model when it launched, and the app drawers look similar with some coloring similarities on the icons. Thats it. They do not look the same from the home screen, they dont act the same, they dont do the same things. They are functionally very different. Even my grandma can tell the difference between iOS and Android.

posted on 02 Oct 2011, 11:21

97. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

The law isn't a matter of opinion. LG and Samsung may have had devices that the iPhone patterned its design upon, but neither had the standing in the market that the iPhone does, and as with every law, you need standing to enforce it. It's a terrible way for the law to work, but as is, if you're the big dog you can sue and win. If you're the little guy, you sue and hope to settle.

That said, your grandma sounds like she's in the top 20% of tech users, at least as far as the courts are concerned. Again, it may be terrible, and cause far more problems than it solves, but when it comes to tech, the courts tend to aim for such a low bar that it can seem insulting to those of us who understand technology. And, functionally different doesn't matter because there are still way too many customers who don't actually play with devices before buying. They hear "this is just like an iPhone", see that the icons look the same, the design is fairly similar and that's enough. Overall consumer knowledge is still pretty low, and the lowest of those are the ones that the courts try to protect, unfortunately.

posted on 02 Oct 2011, 13:03

102. remixfa (Posts: 14604; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

we will just have to agree to disagree. I still hold that some judges at least look at the law, not at the people in the suite, and follow the law. Hopefully that isnt a thing of the past just yet.. lol

And im sitting here looking at the tablets in the store, exept for the LG Gslate, they all use that same wide charger that samsung and apple both use. Without branding you couldnt tell who's was who. Since apple owns actual patents on its custom port designs, they are obivously not breaking apple's patents or we would be seeing that lawsuit in spades. A few minor design similarities is not enouh to win a lawsuit for blatant copying. Its all hypocracy of the highest order as apple has been caught as much if not more than others ripping off ideas and pretending they are theirs. Unless its a blatant copy from head to toe like those cPhones, or its a patent violation, they should all just shut up and go about with their own devices.

posted on 02 Oct 2011, 10:59

95. taz89 (Posts: 2014; Member since: 03 May 2011)

you say samsung copied the ipad...apart from having a black bezel tell me where else the tab looks exactly like the ipad 2

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 13:20

25. corps1089 (Posts: 492; Member since: 20 Jan 2010)

Michael Heller, thanks for making me think. I paused and had to reconsider when you highlighted the idea that information wants to be free.

So much time and effort has been thrown into gaining competetive edge via the patent system, it is easily lost that the patent system was started to foster innovation by the guarantee that ideas and inventions would be made public for everyone to use.

Rather than look down on copying, we can rest assured that copying is a sign the manufacturers/products we are fans of will continue to thrive...

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 15:27

42. Kalevro (Posts: 56; Member since: 11 Sep 2011)

Perfect story and it will end when smartphones reach the level of the laptop, then we will see.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 12:43

83. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

Thanks for reading!

Of course, I'm not sure I take your point, since obviously no one ever debates Windows vs OS X vs Linux...

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 15:40

43. ledbetterp3 (Posts: 467; Member since: 31 Aug 2011)

Wtf haha wheres motorola on the chart? are they that bad?

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 11:00

77. aar0983 (Posts: 51; Member since: 26 Sep 2011)

It's on the top, green

posted on 19 Oct 2011, 05:54

136. ledbetterp3 (Posts: 467; Member since: 31 Aug 2011)

thats htc

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 16:38 1

48. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Great article Michael! But sad to say, it seems your words have fallen on deaf ears. Or maybe I'm making too much out of the article. It seems to me your saying, in this field of technology, comonality is inevitable. OSs are bound to look alike or use each others ideas in one form or another, and this silly war between iOS and Android is really silly when you step back and look at the big picture, or the direction each company is trying to take. I just got two questions for you...

1. If the two companies Apple and Google are running in two different races, why do you think the patent wars REALLY started? Because it reminded me of a really bad break-up when Steve found out Eric was seeing other companies behind his back. Apple started bad-mouthing Google on Facebook and to the, and now doesn't like any of Google's friends...I mean the whole thing just got as messy as Ron and Sam from Jersey Shore, you know!

2. Why do you think the war of the OSs started and have spilt over into the blogs, our homes, and offices everywhere? I've always said it was a combination of iOS fanatics rubbing their devices in everyone else's nose, The Droid coming out and give non-iOS users something to cheer about, and consumer reaction to the death grip and Steve Jobs saying they were holding it wrong. I was one the people who was angered by that reaction, but was shocked when the iOS fans blasted me for having an opinion of a phone I don't own. (even though I own other Apple and iOS devices, but I guess the iPhone is all that matters).

I just wanted you unbiased opinion as to how this whole thing got started and why these two OSs cause such an uproar never seen with Palm, BB, Windows and Symbian OSs.

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 16:52 1

50. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

1. They may be running different races, but they are still competing. The patent wars didn't start with Apple, Google or Microsoft. It's been building for a while, and has just recently hit the tipping point into the public view.

2. The OS war was inevitable because of what I said in part 1: people can only afford one, so you hitch yourself and stick with it. Electronics have always seen this: Windows vs Mac, Nintendo vs Sega, Nintendo vs Sony, Sony vs Microsoft, and on and on. There's nothing special about this brand war over any other. The fanboy wars existed with Palm, BB, and Symbian, we just didn't see it because the factions were so small. The reason we didn't see this before with Palm or BB or anything is because smartphones didn't cross into the consumer mainstream until the iPhone.

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 17:36

53. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Ahh, clarity. That does make sense. Before Android, I was heavy into Blackberry, but didn't see much of the BB vs Palm wars. I think Windows was universally loathed by many, but still had a very loyal following. By I won't go there. Away, thank you for your perspective.

posted on 30 Sep 2011, 21:01

58. taco50 (banned) (Posts: 5506; Member since: 08 Oct 2009)

Whateverman you seem logical most of the time. How can you say iOS users rub their devices in peoples face when Apple article after Apple article is slammed with trolls bashing Apple and it's users. Look through the android articles here and tell me you see the same thing from Apple users.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 04:09 1

67. Whateverman (Posts: 3284; Member since: 17 May 2009)

No, I wasn't very clear on that part. I was referring to the period before the Droid came out. There was nothing that could compete at the time, and there were many who looked down on anything that wasn't an iPhone. Or at least that's how it felt at times, could be wrong.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 12:44 2

84. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2707; Member since: 26 May 2011)

The iPhone was definitely a status symbol and fashion accessory at first. It's still a fashion accessory for many, but not so much a status symbol.

posted on 01 Oct 2011, 14:21

87. dacastrator (Posts: 232; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)

To me it's still more of a status symbol to most iPhone owners. In different parts of the world Apple is known to be a 'luxury' brand. Like in the Philippines, if you owned an iPhone or anything Apple, people will think that you are filthy rich. Same in Indonesia and some latin countries. In Thailand, just walk around in Bangkok carrying an iPhone in your hand will attract prostitutes. I know it sounds stupid but it's seriously real.

posted on 03 Oct 2011, 03:28

104. XiphiasGladius (Posts: 813; Member since: 21 Aug 2011)

It used to be a status symbol in the Philippines when the iphone first came out, even up to now. . . But its a pain to own an iphone in the Philippines right now, for the reason that many local brands and many china phone makers have created phones that actually look like an iPhone4 (imitation), sadly imitated products are rampant in southeast asian countries. . . only those that really know what the real iphone4 really looks like could distinguish the difference between the real one and the fake one. . . so owning an iphone4 now seems a pain in the ass when you stroll you see people holding many iphone copycats around. . . so the Tag of it being a STATUS symbol is slowly fading away. . .

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