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HTC net profit drops again in Q3 2012

0. phoneArena posted on 08 Oct 2012, 03:53

HTC keeps on sliding on the downward slope with net profits falling down 79% as its smartphones lose to rivals like iPhone and Samsung’s Galaxy S series…

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posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:01 9

1. g2a5b0e (Posts: 3814; Member since: 08 Jun 2012)

HTC loses even more money. There's a surprise. My suggestion: Stop making all your flagships exclusive to certain carriers. There's a reason why Samsung is raking in all the cash right now. HTC makes great phones, but people will never know if they aren't available to them.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 07:46 3

20. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

HTC isn't losing money yet, actually they are still piling it up just that their profits keep decreasing.

If the trend continues then they could indeed start losing money but their cash reserves are left untouched until then.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 08:45 1

28. g2a5b0e (Posts: 3814; Member since: 08 Jun 2012)

I know they aren't technically "losing money". I just meant that if you're not making the most you can, then it can feel that way & HTC can & should be making a hellluva lot more.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 09:14 1

30. neutralguy (Posts: 1152; Member since: 30 Apr 2012)

It's hard to make bigger money if you focused on releasing high end, mid-range and lower mid-range products. Especially when the competition is tight and controlled by other companies. They should really need to re-consider entry level for emerging markets. That's how samsung made it anyways.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:04 10

2. enemy_dil (Posts: 7; Member since: 07 Oct 2012)

hope one X+ and 8 X and S same them
HTC is one of the best around.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:16 2

3. shandesilva (Posts: 80; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

htc make some great hardware. arguably better than samsung. but personally what i dont like are (surely most other consumers as well) the sense overlay, almost the same design without much change and poor battery life.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:57 6

8. darkskoliro (Posts: 1090; Member since: 07 May 2012)

you obviously dont know much about whats going on.
1) HTC dont make the hardware, they use NVIDIA's Tegra 3
2) I guess thats personal opinion but sense is the best out right now.
3) Their design is actually the best out there, including build quality.
4) and their battery life has been vastly improved though software, and now hardware (OneX+ got 2100mah)

But nevertheless they are still losing profit. All the best to them

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 11:00 1

35. mozes316 (Posts: 142; Member since: 30 Sep 2011)

Just out of curiosity, what makes Sense better than Touch Wiz or any other UI overlay. I've used just about all of them and I like Sense but I can't say that it's the best.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 18:11 1

45. lsutigers (Posts: 821; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)

It's a matter of personal opinion, but generally speaking, most people prefer Sense over any other Android UI overlay, except vanilla (no UI overlay). Samsung's Touch Wiz and Moto's Blur (until they revamped it) are considered by many to be the least favorite. Many people say Touch Wiz is cartoony, too colorful and patchwork, while Sense is more polished / refined with a more professional look.

Again, it is all personal preference.

posted on 09 Oct 2012, 00:44

47. cellphonator (Posts: 298; Member since: 29 Oct 2011)

Totally agree.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:17 6

4. darktranquillity (Posts: 284; Member since: 28 Feb 2012)

Thanks to half baked flagships.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 07:50 2

22. darac (Posts: 2156; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)

I agree.
I'm enjoying my new international S3 and i can see a great level of devotion and attention in the software package - something that One X lacked upon release.

Things could change with the X+ though

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:21 6

5. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)

Expected, good products with poor management.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:23 1

6. SlimSoulja86 (Posts: 660; Member since: 03 Nov 2011)

I thought Sense was the best with HTC's good built quality with "some great hardware, arguably better than Samsung.", why arent people buying HTC devices instead of cheap plastic Samsung with less better hardware? Well I guess it's all about innovation hay

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 04:25 6

7. bayhuy (Posts: 320; Member since: 23 Jun 2011)

More advertising, HTC! Flo Rida blowing the whistle with Lumia, James Bond with Sony, London Olympics with S3, 2/3 of the ads I see on TV are S3, without being the best device...

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 05:11 2

9. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

It's helpless for HTC and any other company except Samsung. This only proves the theory that sales on this magnitude have nothing to do with devices, technologies, product packaging, logistics or marketing, but with cultural signification.

When certain brand is positively signified on mass scale, like Apple initially and now Samsung, it is based on sign itself, the "knowness" of a brand as a cultural sign. Samsung is a cultural sign that is associated with growing hatred towards Apple, and that's why it's succesful. HTC is not. So it cannot have this kind of sales.

Because there is only place for two opposite ideologies. HTC is failing, and so it will Nokia and Windows, unless they take down one of previous two opposite sides in cultural significance. There can be only two of them.

Of course, most people will argue that the reason for fall is something in category of brand, marketing, product, device, pricing, availability etc., but the true reason will always remain hidden unless they decide to see the problem from cultural perspective.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 05:15 2

10. mobileharan (Posts: 18; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)

Advertisements and Marketing are very important ..

For example in my country India each and every individual knows the Galaxy S3 at least the Galaxy line .. But still many of them don't know what is One X .. And even few dont the company HTC itself ..

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 05:23 4

11. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

Those are not very important.

In my country iPhone was never marketed. Never. Everybody knows they should have it.

Now, the same is with Galaxy SIII. Marketing doesn't matter, only viral cultural information that flows through mass media, mostly internet, that gets spread by word of mouth. Something that's hard to engineer to any marketing expert.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 06:35 2

15. mobileharan (Posts: 18; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)

True ... I think the terms Iphone and Galaxy has become passion .. That's why they don't need much marketing ...Those passionate ones think iphones and for andriod Samsung galaxy phones are best no matter what other phone gives ... And they spread good messages about these phones and the phones becomes viral ..

The other companies should try to get some passionate fans behind them ..

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 08:56 3

29. ph00ny (Posts: 1509; Member since: 26 May 2011)

Brand recognition in overall sense is very important.

That's why Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy lineups are so popular

On the other hand, HTC One line just started. Let's hope that this becomes a three horse race

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 09:27

31. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

HTC One line has already failed.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 18:32

46. lsutigers (Posts: 821; Member since: 08 Mar 2009)

HTC, AT&T and Sprint have all done quite a bit of marketing of their flagship HTC products like the One X and EVO 4G LTE. I think alot has to do with exclusives as mentioned before, while the One X may have done well on AT&T, and the EVO LTE on Sprint, you cant support an entire company with 2 phones when you limit yourself to only 2 carriers. Verizon only has the Droid Incredible and T-Mobile has the One S, which are midrange devices, unlike the EVO and One X. Samsung's formula has worked, and for a reason, they offer their flagship devices on EVERY carrier and let the carriers have exclusives with midrange and entry level devices. The problem is that Samsung has now reached the level of success where they can tell the carriers what they will and wont do, HTC is not there yet, therefore, the carriers can still pressure them into making flagships exclusive.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 05:42 1

12. cGmC11 (Posts: 151; Member since: 02 Apr 2012)

Definitely they need a Nexus phone rush!

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 05:59 2

13. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)

For Apple and Samsung, their flagship phones are easy to understand to the regular consumer - the iPhone and Galaxy S series.

HTC has had the Incredible, Thunderbolt, EVO, Rezound, One, Sensation (and much more I'm sure) as their flagship phone at one point or another, on different carriers. With so many "flagship" phones and variations, knowing about them and which carriers they're offered by, should be difficult even if you were to visit PhoneArena everyday.

Not having a clear, common, universally recognizable flagship phone across all carriers, is killing their brand recognition. Personally, I think they churn out too many half-baked "flagships."

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 06:18 2

14. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

That's a good point but doesn't hold in this case.

Having myriads of models that confuses potential buyers is certainly a bad strategy that is for some reason always used by most manufacturers except Apple (think of the Sony and at least 15 Xperia phones differentiated with alphabetic letters in last 6 months - no wonder they are losing money too!)

However, Samung also has this kind of production. They actually have dozens of Galaxy branded phones among all others, and Galaxy S series is reincarnated numeorous times (Galaxy S+, Galaxy S Advance, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S Duo...). However, the sales are strong only for galaxy SII and SIII, because those are culturally recognized products, not because they are the only flagships.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 07:16 2

18. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)

> However, the sales are strong only for galaxy SII and SIII, because those are culturally recognized products

I don't understand why my point doesn't hold - "culturally recognized products" is exactly what I meant by flagship phones that are easy to understand to the regular consumer. Admittedly, I don't think Samsung did a good job of this until the SII and SIII. However, it is rather clear by now that Samsung has two pillars in their S series and Note series (for mobile phones).

All you have to do is ask yourself this - Which phone is _____ 's best phone?

Here are my answers (and I visit PA everyday):

Apple: iPhone 5

Samsung: SIII, Note II

Motorola: one of the RAZRs (MAXX, with HD and M coming soon?)

HTC: ...which carrier? I've heard of the One X+ from the One series, but didn't the Incredible 4G come out recently?

Nokia: one of the Lumia's (I don't follow Nokia news and their model numbers very well)

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 07:29

19. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

Culturally recognized product is not neccessarily a flagship products in terms of wanting the best in hierarchy. It's just a product that has become cultural sign. For instance, Sony's Xperia S as a flagship didn't become cultural sign - it needs more than just be flagship device.

Cultural signification constitutes itself in society that is identifying with subculture. There are two main subcultures now: Apple and Android/Samsung. The third one, Windows Phone is rising, but it's not found its true oppositional place yet.
The symbol of Android subculture is Galaxy S series, most notably SII and now SIII. Note is also becoming this kind of symbol. But it doesn't have to do much with the fact those are flagship by stratification established by manufacturer itself, although it is more probable that precisely flagship will be signifed, but only because the current language of signifying is based on technical specification in quantitative sense.

I will make my point again with example in my country: HTC has only One X in my country. It's still on a weak sales. On the other side, Galaxy SIII is selling like hot cakes. Not One X nor GSIII were substantially marketized, and for what they were, there was no difference between marketing of the two!

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 08:23 2

26. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)

Reading your other comments, what caught my attention was that you said marketing is insignificant.

"iSheep", "dude, you're a barista," "the next big thing is already here," etc - this is all Samsung marketing, setting itself up to be the anti-Apple. The whole Apple vs. Samsung thing certainly did come from Samsung marketing. A lack of marketing in your country doesn't mean cultural significance came from nowhere at all.

Anyways, my point was more about how brands need an identity, and not really whether they are culturally significant. Apple (iPhone), Samsung (S, Note), Motorola (RAZR on Verizon), Nokia (Lumia) has one. HTC doesn't.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 09:45 3

32. AppleConspiracy (Posts: 637; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

The lines you quoted is not Samsung's marketing. Samsung has just took over the already growing cultural trend. Concept of iSomething and Apple customers' ignorance was developed cultorologicaly as a strong sign, and Samsung merely used it for later marketing, that marketing which was already put in the final stage of Samsung's success.

Samsung is identified as an opposition to long before Samsung used it as their marketing value. They were associated with opposition to iPhone ever since F700, with culmination in galaxy S. They've introduced "iSomething" marketing campaign only with Galaxy SII, but to the full extent their signification found fertile gorund only during last year, more thankfully to the perceived failure of iPhone 5 than to the Galaxy SIII superiority alone.

BTW Nokia is doing very bad with it's flagships - and they have two of them!

Motorola is seeing losses, just like Sony. Basically all manufacturers are losing their gorund except Samsung and LG. I still think this has nothing to do with marketing by itself.

Of course, you need marketing, but only as a fundamental material, and the true success is dependent only upon cultural dynamics.

For instance, some less known and badly designed products of Samsung in terms of market (niche producst) like Galaxy Note (that aims at eccentric population) have gained greater success than Nokia with it's ultra-expensive and globally systematic marketing campaign with Lumias.

Also, Galaxy SIII gained more success based on its sole fact that it is the main iPhone rival for this year than Samsung's previous products under the most expensive mobile marketing campaign in history, the London 2012 Olympics, which were based on Galaxy Note, that even gained greater success by the same reasons, and not reasons of marketing.

HTC One series is perfectly designed in terms of aimed markets. It could be easily seen that there were briliant experts working on a campaign. But there are no sales despite the fact that One X was considered flagship second only to Galaxy SIII but with a few months of advantagre, and it didn't even make profits during those months when One X was practically the best Android out there.

And this is only a continuation of previous HTC's steep fall on market, that nobody truly understands. Why? Because everyone thinks it's all about marketing. But it's not.

posted on 08 Oct 2012, 14:08

41. darkyume (Posts: 7; Member since: 08 Oct 2012)

I actually do like your comment and agree that the anti-Apple sentiment and rivalry existed to some degree before the SII. However, I do not believe that most general consumers would've been able to identify Samsung as either of those before the SII. The SII was a turning point in which Samsung strongly established their position as a rival (Apple vs. Samsung as opposed to iPhone vs Android), to the general people.

Samsung certainly seized the opportunity by taking advantage of the "cultural significance" you are talking about. However, this was largely driven through marketing (relentlessly attacking Apple), creating solid products (SII/SIII), and establishing their identity as "the rival" to Apple. Without the marketing and solid product, Samsung would have never experienced the ascension it experienced with the SII/SIII.

Also, I do agree that the One series was nicely designed. I believe that design is actually one of HTC's stronger suits, I personally thought it was a step in the right direction. However,

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