Samsung's new ISOCELL sensors will shoot 480fps slo-mo in Full HD, are Galaxy S9&S9+ getting that?

Samsung has just detailed a trove of intriguing new camera features of its newest ISOCELL camera sensors, which are quite likely making it to the upcoming Galaxy S9 and S9+ flagships. We've already explained at large how important the Galaxy S9/S9+ will be for mobile photography, but Samsung's recent detailing of the camera sensor really turns up our expectations to 11...
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37 Comments

1. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

That sensor has 0.9 micron pixel size. If it comes to the S9, that would suck pretty hard.

2. Xperia14

Posts: 1206; Member since: Sep 01, 2015

Yeah, just read it on Samsung's own site, sad to see that everyone is going for slimmer sensors. I personally don't mind a (little) hump or a thicker device in order to fit a bigger sensor. Imagine this technology combined with bigger pixels...

3. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

My last two devices were Galaxy S6(donated to family member), and now a Oneplus 3. Both of them had the biggest humps of all time, and don't bother me at all. I would prefer a 2" sensor with 2 micron pixels, combined with the tech this camera has.

6. Xperia14

Posts: 1206; Member since: Sep 01, 2015

Oh man, I'm still waiting for a 1020 successor. I don't mind the hump at all. Function over form any day for me. Anyways, I'm still sure that this will be a good camera, as it is likely to improve upon the S8.

11. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

Well, the S7 didn't really improve over the S6 at all. It traded better low light shots for daylight shots and detail. Same with S8 vs S7, very small improvement and that only via software. If you do a blind comparison between S8 and S6, S6 will be voted higher in half the shots.

14. Chumley

Posts: 38; Member since: Jan 22, 2018

100% agree. I've had all three and the S6 takes the best outdoor shots. It's not even close.

28. Guaire

Posts: 867; Member since: Oct 15, 2014

"I would prefer a 2" sensor with 2 micron pixels" Have fun with your 158 MP smartphone camera phone and its approximately 36-37mm of thickness.

29. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

Sorry, I meant 1/2". Typo there lol

33. Trex95

Posts: 2364; Member since: Mar 03, 2013

Hahah.

34. Trex95

Posts: 2364; Member since: Mar 03, 2013

Nokia 808 pureview biggest camera humps ever put in phones. PS. The guy behind the 808 and lumia 1020 camera hired by Apple since 2011.

7. afrohoxha

Posts: 231; Member since: Mar 13, 2014

If they have reduced crosstalk significantly, then it definitely wouldn't suck , considering the other specs too.

9. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

A 1.4 micron sensor is 2.42 times bigger in area than a 0.9 micron sensor. To even equal the effect, they would have to increase SNR by around 2.5x, which is next to impossible. Also, the sensor would likely be smaller than before, since the resolution isn't changing. Which means the light entering will also likely be less. The tetra binning would work really well if it were something like a 24 MP sensor(Oneplus does it with 20MP and images are too soft) with OIS, but I doubt that will be true. Samsung is lately screwing up on things regular people don't care about too much, like battery size, or RAM, or camera. I think they will go for something that looks better for the marketing department, like dual camera, or portrait mode than image quality.

12. afrohoxha

Posts: 231; Member since: Mar 13, 2014

That particular sensor is 24 MP and has Tetracell tech combining 4 neighbor pixels. Since we have little crosstalk a 2.5x SNR is possible, and because of this it will behave like a big sensor and if executed properly, better than a 1.5 micron one. It should default in using tetracell on every dim and low light situation though or it will really suck as you said. Combine that with auto hdr and the possibilities are there for stunning quality photos or totally the opposite. Let's wait.

16. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

If it's 24MP, it will definitely be better than a 1.5 micron one, probably closer to a 1.7 micron one with good isolation(1.8 will be absolute limit for zero crosstalk). Either way, for tetracell to work, it will have to go to a 6MP camera, and hence the detail will be gone for good. Oneplus has a tetracell working for 5T and the low-light shots are rather okay in terms of noise and brightness, but they are really soft at 5MP, and I mean really really soft. Yes, Samsung will have OIS and 6>5, but this seems more like a secondary camera thing than a primary one.

17. afrohoxha

Posts: 231; Member since: Mar 13, 2014

A 6 MP camera in dim light can have more detail than a 12 MP one in low light in which most of (perceived) detail is just noise. It will be too soft for zooming, but it's a low light photo and from a phone camera. It's not meant to be used as a poster or cropped in small parts.

19. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

Well, that 12MP can be supersampled to 6MP too.

23. afrohoxha

Posts: 231; Member since: Mar 13, 2014

Well, that could be considered similar to Tetracell, but I tend to believe it's more than just a software trick to achieve the effect. The sensor may have certain properties to make possible for grouping pixels together, let's say for example, less crosstalk between 2x2 neighbor matrices than individual pixels to each other, so achieving proper isolation. Don't know though the details about this. It's just my speculation.

4. Ciro1900

Posts: 591; Member since: Dec 17, 2017

Only 480 fps? Lol

5. Xperia14

Posts: 1206; Member since: Sep 01, 2015

Isn't that class leading at FHD? Especially given the 13 seconds on the image in the article. That's more useful than on Xperia's that can record 960 fps @ 720p for only one second or so.

8. Humanoid

Posts: 1226; Member since: Dec 11, 2017

Regular slow-mo can also be limited by cpu power. Unless they ditch SD845, both versions will be locked to 4K@60. It is same of Full HD@120 for continuous recording. Imx400 can do 4K@60 and FullHD@240 but is limited by SD820/835 power. But the Super Slow-mo is limited by the giant amount of data. To record FHD@480 a bit longer than HD@960, the sensor has to be at least twice stronger.

10. Boast_Rider

Posts: 534; Member since: Sep 14, 2017

Well, a slow mo video is not stored as 1080@480 fps actually. It will be stored as 1080p@30 fps, but slowed down to 16x. It's mostly limited by the sensor and data interconnect. Also, if the processor is limiting you, you can use a dedicated ISP like google does.

24. TerryD

Posts: 540; Member since: May 09, 2017

so if the sensor and data interconnect can't deal with 480fps how on earth does it save the data at that rate? time travel?

26. Humanoid

Posts: 1226; Member since: Dec 11, 2017

From Sony : about imx400 "In order to realize the high-speed readout, the circuit used to convert the analog video signal from pixels to a digital signal has been doubled from a 2-tier construction to a 4-tier construction in order to improve processing ability. Although there are speed limitations in the interface specifications for outputting signals from image sensors to other LSIs, this sensor uses DRAM to store signals read at high speed temporarily, enabling data to be output at an optimal speed for the standard specifications. As a result, the product is capable of reading one still image of 19.3 million pixels in only 1/120 of a second (approximately 4x faster than conventional products), thereby supporting high-speed image capture". "With the stacked high-speed, low power consumption, high-capacity DRAM, the new sensor can read one still image of 19.3 million pixels in only 1/120 second (approximately 4x faster than conventional products*), reducing the time lapse for reading each pixel line. This technology minimizes the focal plane distortion*2 in still images that tends to occur when shooting fast-moving subjects on smartphones, which lack a mechanical shutter for controlling exposure time". "The high-speed readout capability makes it possible to record up to 1,000 fps (approximately 8x faster than conventional products*3) super slow motion movies in full HD (1920x1080 pixels). Normal speed shooting data and maximum 1,000 fps high-speed shooting data stored on the DRAM are exported from the image sensor for signal processing on an external image signal processor (hereafter referred to as ISP), making it possible to record vibrant movies on a smartphone that seamlessly combine normal speed movies and super slow motion movies. To ensure that users don't miss split-second moments in super slow motion movies, it is possible to adjust settings so that sudden subject movement is automatically detected and high-speed shooting begins. Because high-speed shooting data is stored on the DRAM and output at a normal speed, a conventional ISP can be used".

27. TerryD

Posts: 540; Member since: May 09, 2017

Cheers Humanoid. So it uses high speed DRAM cache. That'll limit the length of super high speed movies depending on how much of it there is. Lets hope they get the software right to make good use of it.

15. Ciro1900

Posts: 591; Member since: Dec 17, 2017

Nop 960 fps is best than 480 fps, here and in china. 720p or 1080 p is only resolution

18. Sania

Posts: 97; Member since: Nov 04, 2017

U must b smokin’ somthin’ good...

20. Ciro1900

Posts: 591; Member since: Dec 17, 2017

do not cry man, at 460 fps can not capture the tears fall

30. Ciro1900

Posts: 591; Member since: Dec 17, 2017

No, 480 is a joke, no is superslowmotion

13. мкаменова

Posts: 1; Member since: Jan 22, 2018

Cool post. Thanks

21. Anonymous.

Posts: 423; Member since: Jun 15, 2016

Impressive. Waiting for actual test to get on-board with this camera.

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