Cook says software being requested by court does not presently exist

Yesterday, we told you that a federal; judge had ordered Apple to open up the Apple iPhone 5c that was given to deceased terrorist Syed Farook by by his employer, the San Bernardino County Department of Public Health. Today, Apple CEO Tim Cook said opening an iPhone would "threaten the security of our customers." ...
This is a discussion for a news article. To read the whole news, click here


29. Busyboy

Posts: 731; Member since: Jan 07, 2015

You completely misunderstood the quote..

31. joeytaylor

Posts: 957; Member since: Feb 28, 2015

The quote was supposed to be a response to Tbomb

32. TBomb

Posts: 1504; Member since: Dec 28, 2012

Yup. He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

35. joeytaylor

Posts: 957; Member since: Feb 28, 2015

But the context of the quote is still acceptable to use

37. TBomb

Posts: 1504; Member since: Dec 28, 2012

If you're referring to the Ben Franklin quote this time, then I beg to differ. BF was talking about taxes... this is about a phone. If you're referring to the living in a free society quote, then I also say, I don't want to accept free communication between terrorists just so the government doesn't read my texts. The government isn't looking to spy on the average joe... they're looking for bad guys. Even if you have nude pics of your wife/girlfriend on your phone theyre not snooping around looking for those so they can bring them to the janitors closet on their lunch break. Theyre looking for people helping terrorists and discussing bombings, etc.

40. joeytaylor

Posts: 957; Member since: Feb 28, 2015

Yes he was....and taxes are a way of restricting like i said that quote is still acceptable to use....even from the source you quoted

44. TBomb

Posts: 1504; Member since: Dec 28, 2012

I agree on the fundamentals of it... but i'm trying to think practically.. and in practice... i disagree. Because if we take the quote to it's fullest extent, then we would live in a world of no rules. Because every rule ever created takes away from the freedom you have. Not making iOS open source is barring your freedom.... so I guess it applies here as well

47. joeytaylor

Posts: 957; Member since: Feb 28, 2015

I understand where you are coming from. ...but i think giving up too many freedoms for a false sense of security is not right....there is no proof that all the NSA spying has stopped anything

48. joeytaylor

Posts: 957; Member since: Feb 28, 2015

Haha...and IOS is not barring my freedom. ...i have Android.

81. TBomb

Posts: 1504; Member since: Dec 28, 2012

I didnt mean you specifically... it was more of just a general "you"

43. Awalker

Posts: 1977; Member since: Aug 15, 2013

It's the same with the tree of liberty quote from Thomas Jefferson. It doesn't mean what a lot of people think it means.

39. Landon

Posts: 1245; Member since: May 07, 2015

TSA is a joke. That being said, we still need security anywhere and everywhere.

23. darkkjedii

Posts: 31072; Member since: Feb 05, 2011

Rep on those fools Tim Ceezy.

26. talon95

Posts: 999; Member since: Jul 31, 2012

There is no way this request can be allowed to stand. It will never stop with the US government. Apple, Google, Microsoft will all be required by every government in the world to expose everyones data. And if there is a back door, make no mistake, it will get exploited. In the good old days you burned the photos you didn't want seen, in todays world you encrypt them. The FBI is asking a 3rd party to reconstruct ashes. Are they going to make the rest of the private sector do their jobs for them as well? Don't get me wrong, I want the FBI to turn terrorist property upside down when they have a warrant to do so, and murderers have freely given up nearly all of their rights when they committed the crime (in this case gave up their lives already) but I'm not prepared to open pandora's box. There can be no back doors that circumvent the privacy of lawful humans, not even just citizens. Besides, even the FBI don't want the future president running around with an insecure phone.

27. talon95

Posts: 999; Member since: Jul 31, 2012

Another question to ask is: Will crime increase or decrease if phones are less secure? Will every stolen corporate phone end up in China with a warrant to be decrypted? Also: Encryption is simple and freely available. If the terrorists are already using encrypted phones, who says the data on them isn't encrypted also? What good is a decrypted phone if everything on it has been manually encrypted anyways? Will Apple be asked to work on decrypting that as well?

41. dmomintz

Posts: 68; Member since: Jan 21, 2016

BS. Straight propaganda and apple trying to save face. I'm all for privacy concerns, but do you think apple could pick a worse case to defend? I dare you to tell the kids and families of those murdered victims that your porn, embarrassing sexts, and stupid pictures on your iPhone are more important than bringing these sick animals and their accomplises to justice. As if you had any semblance of privacy in the first place, or are people really that nieve?

49. TechieXP1969

Posts: 14967; Member since: Sep 25, 2013

I support Apple 100% on this move. Mostly because the USA Government is just a bunch of bullies. When you use the same laws to get something done by them, they won't do it. But then they want something they want to try to use the laws against you.. If I was Tim Cook I'd just come out and just say what I feel. Screw in this case being professional. I would just tell the Judge and the FBI to kiss my @$$. After all what's the worse they can do? Arrest Apple? Try to close the company down and wreck the economy some more like they already have? Also, I thought the NSA or whoever already had access to metadata? That isnt enough? The guy plead guilty to charges. He is never gettign out of prison. As far as who his friends are? or people he did talk too? It's none of the Governments business. Could those people he know be terrorist? Yep. In fact they already know who they are. After all many terrorist organizations were created by the USA. ISIS was an organization created by the US and so were many others. Bush was friends with the Bin Laden family, so he is a terrorist too. After all, are they not by law guilty by association? I dont see one bush in jail. I wish I could be in Tim Cook shoes..I send out to the media a huge poster with a hand with the middle finger raised.

64. S.R.K.

Posts: 678; Member since: Feb 11, 2016

I don't agree. USA and UK are the bullies. Why shouldn't they be, they are the powerful. If you've got it flaunt it and take advantage. Just like what Apple does to milk dry their idiot buyers.

67. engineer-1701d unregistered

techie i had some respect for you but know 0 they are dead you idiot they killed 14 people and injured more then in shootout with police died, do you even know what your talking about. yes nsa can open it but following the law here fool.

69. S.R.K.

Posts: 678; Member since: Feb 11, 2016

I agree +1 Techie is getting hated and bullied by all iFans, now he's becoming an iFan, giving credit to Apple. Lmao.

70. Ninetysix

Posts: 2964; Member since: Oct 08, 2012

The NSA can't open broseph. This is an urgent matter. Do you think they'll mess around and "be nice to Apple" and wait around? LOL. I have no idea where you're coming up with these stuff.

82. TechieXP1969

Posts: 14967; Member since: Sep 25, 2013

So what! When a governement wants to find someone they can. The FBI is just lazy money sucking pricks, liek more corps. The problem as Tim stated an I agree with, if such a tool existed, the Governement cannot be trusted to use the proper restraints to protect it. The fact is we are all humans and when you give a human the capacity to cause harm to another. THEY WILL. I personally don't care what you think. I am entitled to my opinion. People get killed everyday. Phones were designed to prevent hacking to some degree. Making a proverbial backdoor just for the Government is wrong. I don't care what you think. Cook said it right out. Such a tool would open doors to things we know would happen for a fact. The Government would have an open door to make everyone phone be a recorder. Think of this...let's say you're on a conversation with a friend about a terrorist attack, and maybe you are talking about something you saw in the news. But the Feds cut in on the tail end of your conversation. You conversation may sound like YOU'RE the terrorist and you could get a rude awakening when the Feds come bust down your door to arrest you.. Also consider this fact. Thanks to Bush, if the Feds just "claim" you are a terrorist, they could lock you up forever and no one will even know who or where you are. Your right to Halias Corpus is automatically stripped, which means you don't have any rights, you don't get a lawyer, a Judge or a jury. Humans are devious by nature. You buy any soul in a position to hurt people, they will. We seen it in Government, military and police, doctors, lawyers, Governors, Mayors and even presidents. Now please try to deny what I said. if you think they shoudl give them what the Feds are asking for, even if it was possible, then that is your choice. The Feds are already taking as many rights away from us as it is for what is suppose to be a free country. There are people on the street right now, who've shot countless amounts of people, and the Feds aren't going through their phones. If the guy is a terrorist or affiliated with one, they have other means of intelligence...

54. Justlooking

Posts: 84; Member since: Aug 27, 2014

The tools don't exist? Didn't apple at one point Saud that they could delete Unapproved apps from the iPhone.... I seem to recall something along those lines.....

56. ibend

Posts: 6747; Member since: Sep 30, 2014

that tool exist.. but only for apple, not for FBI and friends

66. engineer-1701d unregistered

look at it like this your 16 year old daughter has been beaten and kidnapped and rapped and put up for sale to anyone that wants to do horrible things to her, maybe tongue cut out so no talking,they have the video of the truck and guys that took her rapped her and sold her, do you A= say no its not right to open phone and get numbers and gps of towers to save her or B= unlock the phone and get your daughter back safe as possible just think about the movie taken or any other like this or how about the girls take from the village in africa that you and all the other people in the world said america you need to find them and stop anything to do with them doing this again.

78. NexusKoolaid

Posts: 493; Member since: Oct 24, 2011

Or... C= you unlock the phone and find out that there's nothing of use on the device. Because the criminals are getting smarter, not relying on just the phone's encryption, but using VPN connections and apps that provide secure end-to-end encryption. Things that the phone manufacturer can't control. You keep trying to make the same emotional argument, worded slightly differently each time. But your understanding of the reality of the situation reads like a bad daytime TV script. The NSA does not have a magic button that will unlock any phone and pull all data from the cloud, ready to read. There are no XDA hackers that can decrypt a device in a week (Folks at XDA are good at finding ways to root devices or unlock bootloaders, but that's absolutely nothing like breaking data encryption). And once an incriminating device is unlocked there's no guarantee there will be enough there to send in the Marines to save the day and rescue the girl. The people that law enforcement are trying to track aren't the seedy thugs portrayed in 'B' crime movies. They are advised by people who are tech savvy and know how not to leave bread crumbs. If they knew enough to ditch the hard drive from their home PC they would know to keep their phone clean and not keep evidence on the cloud. And anything that is on the cloud is likely to be encrypted. And encryption available to the public these days isn't a fancy form of Pig Latin. The stuff being used these days is essentially military grade. And after the device has been decrypted, what of the tools used to unlock the phone? As said previously, there's no way to keep those keys and modifications 100% safe. So all said, the real issue at hand is to weigh the questionable value of unlocking the phone against the very real damage that could be done with the tools used to get into the device. tl;dr - the reality of the issue is nowhere near as black and white as you make it out to be. Have a good day... I'm done with this thread. Peace.

83. TechieXP1969

Posts: 14967; Member since: Sep 25, 2013's a movie. Could it happen? Sure! What you arent seeing is this. Apple is a very well known company. They have lots of store. If Apple had such a tool and gave it to the FBI, Apple could now become a terrorist target. Terrorist could easlly have someone with a bomb, walk right into an Apple store like a tourist and blow the place up. Someone could get into Apple's headquarters as well. After all, one of Apple's own employees could be an inside terrorist guy for all you know. Do you understand why you can't do this? Probably not because all you are looking at is the immediate problem and the not the full scope of what is being asked for. Also Tim Cook could be an open target. His friends, his own family, fellow employees and more. Such a tool in the wrong hand would cause unprecedented issues in life, both yours and mine. You sound like a person who is will to give up his rights because of some criminal. There are criminals on the street who steal, kidnap, murder and more and the feds don't do this. Don't all criminals have friends? Couldn't their friends also be criminals? Couldn't they also be wanted? Here is the thing as well. Such equipment isn't even suppose to be confiscated unless it is known to have been used to commit the crime in question. You can make up whatever fantastic story you ant, but I'm with Tim on this one for lots of reasons. The main one is, I personally don't trust our US Government because they are liars and opportunists. After 9/11 I lost all trust because they are the cause of 9/11 if you look at all the facts. No plane has ever flown in USA airspace for more than 15 minutes without signaling...EVER. The golfer was flying and he didnt answer his radio for 15mins and they scrambled jets and forced him to land. Never had this ever happened without military gettign involved until 9/11. A plain crashes in the middle of an open field and there is no bodies, no seats, no wheels, no wings, no tail section, nothing that even resembles a plane..just a hole in the ground. Buildings I watched simply imploded. There si no way a plane crashing into a building would bring down all the central columns. For me to believe for them ALL to simultaneously fail and cause a building to fall without using explosives is simply a scientific impossibility. A plane is simply not big enough or heavy enough to take out a building. And look WTC 7 only had a few small fires. How did it just collapse? There were buildings that burned for 24 hours and didnt collapse. The official story is a lie, our government is a lie and such a tool in their hands would be used to hurt ALL of us whether YOU think so is not relevant to facts and history. You need to wake up boy!

68. MartyK

Posts: 1043; Member since: Apr 11, 2012

I'm glad Apple will not do this!.. Government is getting out of hand!

71. S.R.K.

Posts: 678; Member since: Feb 11, 2016

Lmfao, yea really. It's OK when he agrees to open deal with China, but not with USA. Hypocrisy. You must be a terrorist. ?

72. Chuck007

Posts: 1410; Member since: Mar 02, 2014

Still think this is all a guise to make us blindly believe in tech companies (this time being Apple) again. We simply live in a day and age where no company who relies on the Internet (whether be it software or hardware) for revenue streams can be trusted.

* Some comments have been hidden, because they don't meet the discussions rules.

This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. You can order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers at or use the Reprints & Permissions tool that appears at the bottom of each web page. Visit for samples and additional information.