Will Apple/Verizon tablet have negative impact on RIM?
A internet tablet from Apple, to be offered by Verizon, would have a negative impact on BlackBerry maker RIM according to at least one Wall Street analyst. While the product is nothing more than a rumor at this point, it is enough for UBS analyst Maynard Um to downgrade his opinion of the shares of the Canadian cellphone manufacturer. According to the The Street.com, the new Apple device is expected before the holidays. Um points out that Big Red is one of RIM's top three customers, accounting for 10% to 25% of the firm's quarterly revenue. While the tablet would be data only, it could quickly become a top-selling item for Big Red, pushing business away from BlackBerry products. And once the carrier has opened it's door to an Apple product, the thinking is that a Verizon branded iPhone would follow fairly quickly. The UBS analyst does note that his concerns are emotional as opposed to material, but emotions do go a long way in pricing a stock on Wall Street.
1. rehnhart (Posts: 103; Member since: 27 Mar 2009)
...(And once the carrier has opened it's door to an Apple product, the thinking is that a Verizon branded iPhone would follow fairly quickly.) You'll never see an Iphone on VZW...VZW wants to be ground zero for distributing Apps and won't want Apple sticking it's hand in the cookie jar.
2. jharo (Posts: 21; Member since: 08 Jan 2009)
That pretty stupid...what do you think App World is? Verizon doesn't control that.
3. WKlingbeil (Posts: 215; Member since: 26 Dec 2008)
Very true... Tablet PCs are ridiculous to begin with...
6. BlackberryUser (Posts: 609; Member since: 26 Jun 2009)
Hasn't Verizon already stated that you will see a Verizon branded iPhone in the distant future? Verizon will adopt the iPhone to take away AT&T's competative edge. Almost every person I know who has AT&T only signed up for the iPhone or they live in an area where Verizon doesn't offer service.
10. BigRed83 (Posts: 143; Member since: 19 May 2008)
A couple thoughts... 1. AT&T has exclusivity through at least 2010 on the iPhone. That would not stop the Nano phone from coming to VZW. 2. An Apple tablet device coming to VZW would have to address the facts that kept the iPhone from coming to Verizon in the first place; ability to insure the device, application issues, etc. Not insurmountable, but not a slam dunk, either.
14. behold--me (Posts: 650; Member since: 22 Jun 2009)
exactly. IN THE DISTANT FUTURE......LIKE YEARS.
16. YouLostTheGame (Posts: 441; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
Not so sure that's accurate. Everything I've read online at websites like this one and also Engadget states that ATT's exclusivity with the iPhone ends in JUNE of 2010. That's not so distant. I feel like it's very plausible for Apple to announce that other iPhones/Apple branded phones will be making their way onto other carriers by June of 2010. I think a lot of ATT/iPhone fanboys love the idea of their device to stay exclusive with a single carrier forever. But look at other phone manufacturers...they all either offer the same device with multiple carriers EVENTUALLY or have different phones that are for different carriers like the BB Storm vs. the BB Bold. For people to say that an Apple branded phone will NEVER come to VZW have got to be living under some kind of huge rock, or have absolutely no kind of common sense what so ever. Also, I think that VZW might be willing to overlook or get around such issues as the ones pointed out of "ability to insure the device, application issues, etc." seeing as how well the iPhone has been received by the public and just how many people have been added to ATTs network due to that single device. I'm not saying I love or hate the iPhone, I'm just pointing out that it's done VOLUMES of biz for both Apple and ATT and that Apple would be stupid to keep exclusivity with ATT. They (Apple) has so much obvious money, market share, etc. to gain by opening up their device to other carriers or releasing other phones for other carriers. After all, at the end of the day, Apple is still a biz and the aim of a biz is to create positive products/services to turn a profit!
4. SellPhones82 (Posts: 569; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
RIM is still the leader for Corp. America and I don't see that changing any time soon. Go to any boardroom and ask everyone to pull out there phones and you won't see any iPhones, just RIM and WinMo. I would also like to know how big this table will be. My guess is it will not be sliding into any pockets or snapping on to any holsters, but it might fit in a cargo pocket If anything it will needs it own laptop-like bag. Is it going to have a keyboard or all virtual? Is it just going to be a big ipod touch with HD quality resolution so you can watch your blu-ray movies (iTunes 9)? Maybe it will at least multi-task so someone could try and get work done if they need to but this sounds like something that would be great for long car rides, flights, or just killing time. They will sell a ton of them becasue people will be buying them for their kids (see Wii) but they will still be picking up the BB's for them self.
5. BlackberryUser (Posts: 609; Member since: 26 Jun 2009)
I agree and disagree with you. I personally use a Blackberry and do feel it's the most popular phone in corporate America. That said, I have seen many people using iPhones for business purposes which I didn't expect at first. Once VZW adopts the iPhone you'll probably see the iPhone as much as a WinMO device, but Blackberry will still probably have the majority of the market. Anyways, although the iPhone will have an impact on Blackberry sales, I think corporate America will continue using the Blackberry. I think the younger generations will be the ones more likely to switch from their Blackberry's to iPhones. Most of those people don't require a Blackberry though and don't use it to it's full potentional. I personally feel the Blackberry Storm was geared towards these users and I think RIM is prepared for the continuing competition from Apple.
9. SellPhones82 (Posts: 569; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
Great point regarding the Storm, an iphone on VZW would hurt RIM Storm sales as they are not your typical BB users. I would be curious as to how many of the people you see using an iphone for business still do or are think about changing. Here is a great read by Josh Topolsky Editor-in-chief of Engadget regarding this same topic and he nails it IMO... http://www.engadget.com/2009/0
11. E.N. (Posts: 2577; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
The iPhone 3G was just below the blackberry curve a few months ago and has sold more than some of the other blackberries like the bold and storm. I'm pretty sure that RIM lost some potential customers to Apple and Im pretty sure most of the sales are not going to kids. I actually see more kids with pearls and, to my surprise, curves that I do any other smart phone.
12. E.N. (Posts: 2577; Member since: 25 Jan 2009)
I highly doubt that there is going to be a nano version of the iPhone anytime soon. Rumors have been going on forever and now it's pointless to guess and anticipate when it might be arriving.
7. Doakie (Posts: 1733; Member since: 06 May 2009)
I fail to understand why an apple tablet with data only would hurt blackberries stance in the business world. BB has been the first choice for businesses to outfit their workers with because its a single platform that they can access their secure company email from, and make phone calls on the company plan. How would a Data only tablet dethrone the BB in this situation? Why would a company throw money away at purchasing a company phone for an employee and then have to turn around and buy them an apple tablet instead of just buying them a full fledged laptop that can also log into the companies secure servers? Companies aren't stupid, they aren't out there to throw money away. Apple products are an emotionally driven purchase, which means it is attractive to consumers. Businesses are driven by their budgets, they buy what makes the most sense for the companies profit margins. I think the call of this analyst is too emotionally driven and stinks too much to me of an apple fan who is being hopeful about what an apple tablet would do to the business worlds purchasing habits. I think an apple tablet would make a big splash in the business world if most business computers were running the mac os....until then it would be wiser for businesses to invest in netbooks with cellular cards built into them due to cheaper tech support costs due to avoiding having to support multiple platforms. But even then it would make no sense to buy two products for a single employee to check his email on. In other words, I think this analyst fails at predicting what the business marketplace is. This is not consumer America we're talking about.
8. Quemical (Posts: 162; Member since: 14 Jul 2009)
Wow, this article is nonsensical and all over the place. There are alot of "maybes" and "ifs" involved in this guys chain of thought and while I realize that stock analysts deal with the unknown this is beyond pure speculation and diving into full blown fan boy wet dreams.
13. ward107 (Posts: 14; Member since: 10 Aug 2009)
Well, next to the BlackBerry Storm:The Iphone sits on Vodafone's web sight in Australia, it seems to be offered as an alternative. It doesn't look as though Verizon is fearing any interference between RIM and Apple in the Europe Market. I am not sure what other Locations is offering the Iphone.
15. jherz6 (Posts: 216; Member since: 23 May 2008)
For all you doubters out there if all goes well Verizon WILL have the iphone by august of 2010. So all those who left Big Red to get the iphone and are tired of the crappy service at AT&T will be able to leave if they chose to. However Apple will have to make some consions like allowing Verizon to be able to support there customers and the customers being able to insur the handsets so they wont have to pay fullboat to get the handset replaced if something happens thats not covered under the waruntee. And they say VZW is money hungry.
17. YouLostTheGame (Posts: 441; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
I agree that an iPhone product will be available on VZW next Fall. But with the success garnered by the iPhone as seen in the millions of units pushed out the door EVERYTIME a new version of the iPhone gets released, I could see VZW getting around some of the hiccups like insurance and support so they could also start enjoying some success of having a big selling phone like the iPhone on their network. Those little things certainly haven't hindered the success of the phone on ATTs network as of yet.
18. ward107 (Posts: 14; Member since: 10 Aug 2009)
I THink it could be closer to 2nd quarter 2010 when we see an Apple fall in Verizon's yard. The new network is schedualed to launch in 4th quarter 2009 and be fully incorperated by 1st quarter 2010. This would open the door for manufacturers that support a sim based phone that is capable in the new VZ network such as Apple. Vodaphone has simmilar expectations but now carry Apple products. I donot think the battle between RIM and Apple for supirioraty will even have justification eccept in loss of sales to someone whom was in the market for the Iphone an had chose a Blackberry Instead because of the lack of option. The Iphone had never really fell into an enterprize position like BlackBerry has.
19. lolipopjones (Posts: 51; Member since: 21 Jun 2009)
You will never see a VzW branded iPhone nor anything Apple related unless VzW gives up on the idea of controlling the product. Anyone that contests that idea has no idea of the corporate culture or how Steve Jobs/Apple run their business. Apple has such tight control over the iPhone because that forces users to go through them for everything. This is to maximize business on their end and it allows them to convert potential iPhone users to more of their products. These stupid VzW rumors have been going on since 2007 when it was claimed every June we would see a VzW iPhone. Its not coming to Verizon because they want control over the product to maximize THEIR profits, ensure the customer is loyal to them, and force the user to come to them for everything vs Apple. Iphone users are APPLE users. They are apple customers that use AT&T for a service and thats it. This leads AT&T to be devalued service wise and VzW see this. The last meeting i was in serveral VzW managers and districts scoff at the idea because Apple will not give on their demands. If a carrier wants an Apple product then they have to pay for it. The only reason for the VzW hype is the massive misdirection campaign by VzW to try and say the iPhone is nothing without its Network a statement which is utter bullshit. As for these Analysts notice how they think only in terms of the Status Quo Cellphone market. The idea that a manufacturer will bend for carrier to open up its market share... Apple is a company that has always operated with a small market share but generating a MASSIVE amount of profit. This is because Apple is not a market share company but a profit share company that understands that for its brand to survive it must keep an air of exclusivity and product quality. Selling more iPhones but losing control of the product is MORE costly. It takes business from the Apple Stores which then means they lose potential revenue which means the (lets say example) 1 million "iPhone" VzW customers only garnered them profit from sales of device. Then all revenue from the device goes from apple to VzW due to customers going to VzW Store over the Apple Store. Yes they will garner some profit from official apple products but they lose on potential sales of other Apple Products (like CPUs). Apple has kept itself as a very profitable organization because it has kept the customer in their Ecosystem where its either Apple or nothing. Breaking from that like they did when they allowed third party companies to make "mac clones" would be harm then good to them.
20. ward107 (Posts: 14; Member since: 10 Aug 2009)
I thiunk you have made a few good points, many of the first issues that Verizon had with Apple on the first joint venture offer. I think over time and the issues that Apple incurred with AT&T they know how to handle warantees and service to meet verizon's demands. To think a buisness will not bend or move for anouther company is slightly misinformed idealistics. Verizon is scurrying to ready a system that was scedualled full blanket coverage in 2015 to be 30- 40 percent by Q1 2010 for an Apple device probably the Tablit. Vodafone, Verizon's sister company in Europe has already released the Iphone in June, Because they already run on GSM networks that Iphone tech currently uses. I see your point about the anticipation over the few years of folks that just can not sign an agreement with AT&T just to get the technology they desire and only wish they had it on a faverable network. I feel myself verizon had made a bad dissision but it is not only Verizon's choice, Vodafone takes stakes in the choice and I think their current line reflects its motion.
21. YouLostTheGame (Posts: 441; Member since: 11 Dec 2008)
Thank you ward107, couldn't have said it better.
22. lolipopjones (Posts: 51; Member since: 21 Jun 2009)
When has Apple ever changed their business model? I think you misunderstand GREATLY because your looking at Apple's cellphone service as being treated as no different then RIM's services. The problem VzW has with Apple is they are not going to take massive short term hits on their profit to sell a phone that will only get make them money on voice plans and 30 dollar data plans Apple has no reason to bend for VzW at all. To say Apple should give in its demands that would cause it too LOSE more profit then gain just to sell a phone is foolish. Apple is not making money just on sales of that device thats only a portion. Warranty Services, itunes, and Apps all provide apple money which creates an ecosystem for that product that to break from diminishes their profit margin. The other point is why should Apple change their stance for one carrier? They sell on a global scale that has been willing to give into their demands why should bend for one little carrier in the US? Yes its the largest US carrier but its still one carrier making demands that carriers around the world are willing to concede to Apple... The truth is they won't concede a single point for VzW and have no impetus to do so. They lose money if they give in to VzW's demands. They lose 60 dollars per iPhone for Apple care if they allow VzW to direct warranty it. Thats just one example and the counter claim of "Oh they will sell more iPhones." doesn't hold water. After the exclusivity agreement is up they could just offer their services to T-mobile and sell more iPhone and keep their Apple care plans... which means they keep making more profit. Technology. VzW is going LTE but only for Data because they intend to use their CDMA network for voice. This means any phone on the Network must be LTE/CDMA chipset phones. Apple has already proven they are not going to make a specific phone for a specific carrier. This means when LTE launches they are going to launch with the LTE/GSM chipsets of Infineon over the LTE/CDMA chipsets of Qualcomm which will be required for VzW handsets. SO either way you look at it VzW has continued to segregate itself and its network from other carrier until LTE is its Stand alone technology which even in 2014 will not.... Their is no need for Apple to lose profits for one US carrier any argument contrary to that shows ignorance in Apple's closed propriety driven ecosystem.
23. ward107 (Posts: 14; Member since: 10 Aug 2009)
lolipop. I guess I see your point in Apple's buisness practices, I feel it every time I want to buy software or a new machine. I know of the first issues that verizon had with the Apple deal and I understand why their could not be an agreement. Times change and so does buisness practices. Over the past few years has been a learning experiance for Apple in the phone industry. IF Apple could not come to Agree with Verizon, how did a contract form with the sister company Vodafone which is opperated by primarily the same engine. I think the Time issue was a relevant issue as well as Apple's first phone in the industry could of been questionable for the pricing and marketing issues that AT&T seen at start up. Now Apple has the phone for a more reasonable price that Verizon would agree to. Vadafone will have the same infastructure because they have the same department working on thier network in Europe and they will maintain the Iphone on an Identicle network as verizon.Today the Vodafone network is GSM but 1st Q it will be converted to LTE/G4 and will be close to 40% complete. So either the Iphone will accomadate the industry standard or be obsolite. If you look at Vodafone's web sight it will resemble Verizon's by next year with the Iphone adjacent to the Blackberry. The CDMA will be used by verizon for some time because of some of the network is rented and leased and they have a large population that has CDMA handsets like myself that doesnt quite want to give up yet. The tablet will be first, then maybe a lite version of the Iphone or a 4g full version. By 1st Q 2010 the new network will be 40% complete with most major cities covered. I know this from inside info, believe it or not..
24. lolipopjones (Posts: 51; Member since: 21 Jun 2009)
Ward. I work for VzW. Vodafone runs its business completely different then VzW. Its Not a Sister company. Vodafone is a parent company that has only kept VzW due to its profitability. They were going to sell all there shares and buy out AT&T not too long ago hence why AT&T has been limping for so long because Vodafone nearly bankrupted them. I think you misunderstand the relationship between Vodafone and VzW.... Vodafone is the leader who views us as their bastard child. It was Vodafone that pushed VzW to go with LTE not the other way around. It was Vodafone that has been forcing VzW to make its technology compatible because Vodafone's goal is to eventually buyout and rebrand VzW. However, Vodafone does not operate like VzW at all. Vodafone operates more like AT&T and T-mobile in how the devices are much more Manufacturer operated. They have exclusives but Vodafone doesn't force companies to run their software. The reason they have the iPhone is they did like everyone else and gave in to Apple on all issues. Every carrier that has the iPhone on their network only offer's voice plans and Data. That is it. VzW is the only carrier that attempts to force manufacturers to give VzW complete control over the device. I don't know how you think that VzW is the big kid... but it is not... Vodafone is everything VzW could wish to be and unfortunately will never be due to it being the most greedy carrier out of all carriers... The Iphone is not reasonably priced. Its 699 for the 32gb and AT&T eats 400 dollars in every Subsidized purchase. VzW will charge you 399 and thats probably as a mail in rebate. They will not take a huge hit on a device especially if they are not going to make ANYTHING off of the device. Your "INSIDE" info is lying to you...... Then again I can name some regionals and DMs that told their employees that they were going to get the 3GS this summer... VzLEARN LTE Transition... VzW does not expect to have a the numbers you claim by 2014.... Your salesbuddy or CCR friend doesn't know what they are talking about.
25. ward107 (Posts: 14; Member since: 10 Aug 2009)
lolipop, I understand the differences between Vodafone and Verizon, Parent, Sister, Major shareholder, I guess it is all the same. Even if Iphone never comes to VZW we can purchase the Iphones that are distributed for Vodafone. I Had spoken with an acquittance that is in charge of certain area testing and implementation of the new network. He said that there is LTE in major cities and has been even before the TV stopped broadcasting on the frequency. That was 3 months ago in the testing stage, and now they are in implementation and will be up and running by December or early jan not a full blanket but major cities and its surroundings. He said that Vodafone and verizon will have Identical networks for compatibility. They are using the same plans and schedule and he reports to the same individuals on progress and issues. I do not know anyone in sales it is much higher. As for the Iphone he said that both companies have made agreements to control the markets similar and provide the same product and agreed that universal sims between the companies would aid in traveling customers, it was part of the initial requirements that were layed out and added before deployment of the new network. He had stated that most of the newer phones starting with smart phones and Blackberrys and such will be required to have sims and then lower models as they are designed all swappable with one another, no more calling or dealing with long digits. VZW has made many attempts to purchase their stock in the past then recently when the plans for the network surfaced they decided to maintain their current status and work together as one..He said the "LTE" network is truly revolutionary and they have the best of the best working on the citation. It sounds as though you will be quite busy this holiday season..
Will Apple/Verizon tablet have negative impact on RIM?