Why is Google willing to cooperate and compete simultaneously with Apple, but not willing to do so with Microsoft?
0. phoneArena 15 Nov 2013, 15:50 posted on
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. _Bone_ (Posts: 2106; Member since: 29 Oct 2012)
They will cooperate when Windows Phone becomes relevant.
17. papss (unregistered)
It is relevant considering the other things google tries to get its products on plus really how much would it cost to put on wp? If small companies can do it with little resources then so could google. It's a pathetic excuse.
46. Taters (Posts: 2648; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)
It would cost plenty. It is all about efficiency these days and having even just one employee that could be making s**t loads on Android and IOS come and waste time on money on WP is not even the least bit worth it to Google or any other big company.
If you were a small company and IOS and Android is too competitive for you because of the gay patent battles, then sure, WP is a great option. But if you already have your money printers on auto, why change even one printer that may or may not print something valuable?
The excuse it 100% rock solidly sound.
73. TechBizJP08 (Posts: 494; Member since: 25 Mar 2013)
Amen Brother.. Thumbs up for you!
Apple even admits that Windows is a threat. How much more does Goolge feel?
84. lyndon420 (Posts: 1708; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
Everyone is a threat to apple...they don't want anyone else to make smart phones.
88. kabhijeet.16 (Posts: 629; Member since: 05 Dec 2012)
Clearly you dont understand how industries work...
89. kabhijeet.16 (Posts: 629; Member since: 05 Dec 2012)
Have you complained when apple doesn't share their apps with other platforms? No. If having Gmail and all those other goodies that Google offers is important to you, get Android.
Google services are available to all platforms. Android, iOS, Firefox, Tizen etc. It is even available for WP. But MS is so stubborn.. Remember Scroogled???
It is not the "duty" of Google to provide its services to WP....
If MS wants it, it has to make an offer.. That is how industries work...
38. kozza3 (Posts: 574; Member since: 17 Oct 2012)
61. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5580; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
I have to chuckle every time a fan of WP holds forth about how it is Google's sacred duty to provide the full suite of Android appps on WP. Maybe MS should make a compelling reason for Google to port the Android apps over to WP? They could start by dumping the Scroogled campaign.
96. bon24x7 (Posts: 203; Member since: 30 Aug 2012)
what's wrong with scroogled..? they aren't making any false accusations in it..they're just letting others know the fact.!
82. lyndon420 (Posts: 1708; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
Google is big enough on their own now...they don't need ms or apple for that matter. They should start supporting just their own platform now. If you want apple's services, you buy apple products. Does anyone complain when apple doesn't share their apps with other platforms? No. If having Gmail and all those other goodies that Google offers is important to you...support Android.
98. troutsy (Posts: 246; Member since: 17 Feb 2012)
Agree. I bet the conversation went like this:
Henchmen #1: Boss, Microsoft has gained 1.6% of the market share!
Larry Page: Your point? We gained 6.1% of the market share in the same period.
Henchmen #1: But, I think we should develop our apps/services for the Windows Mobile platform so we can benefit from that resource.
Larry Page: Do you think Windows users will switch over to our service if we make an app for them?
Henchmen #1: Yeah, no contest, they'll swarm to us like bees.
Larry Page: So, releasing an app now would take over a very small volume of users and encourage market share to be pulled away from Android. But If we wait it will cost us nothing, discourage WP, and we'd instantly dominate those services if we enter the market if WP gets a larger share.
Henchmen #1: Exactly, I'll get started working on it immediately.
Larry Page: You should go back to writing crappy articles for Phone rumor web sites...
3. rusticguy (Posts: 2826; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
“Being negative is not how we make progress.”
“Being negative is how we made progress.”
"We are still learning few tricks from Apple"
4. rawbow (Posts: 407; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
you would think that you are the customer/consumer of Google. You are the product for them. Think really hard on this and comeback.
Agreed, Apple is what it is for pretty debatable reasons but the products are the devices and the consumer is you.
Microsoft learning tricks from Apple..lol you are kidding right? Microsoft is the necessary evil and the best bully one can become in the software world.
9. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
So then why should Google cowtail to what MS wants. MS is the big bullly and Google says no. So now google gets beat up after school for saying no. And you are sort of right. Google users are the Benefactors of google's money pipe. But I get better service from Google than I ever have from MS or Apple. They only want my $$, google just wants me to use google.
12. rawbow (Posts: 407; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
No, it's as the author pointed out, either do what you feel is right or don't preach what you can't follow.
Personally i like them all better as rivals.
Google just wants you to use google. +1, but would you want to sacrifice all competition to be able to do that? Because that's where it's eventually headed and with monopoly starts all the fun. Would you be able to comeback from a point of no return?
14. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
"But I get better service from Google than I ever have from MS or Apple"
Exactly. Case in point...I am this close to forwarding all my mail to GMail. Hotmail, outlook.com, whatever its called now is getting slower by the day.
Wild thing is...I thinks its because I block ads.....and Google is supposed to be the big bad ad dictator.
Apple did have a free email service years ago. It quietly came and went.
Just for Gmail alone I agree with what I quoted.
20. papss (unregistered)
Wait... so google isn't after my money? Now I heard it all..
29. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
That's not what I said. But Google isn't after "your" money, unless you are buying advertising from them. Then yes. But to RawBow's rant, No. google want's your use. They create free products and get you to use them to earn money from ad's. Apple and MS want YOUR money, preferrably evry 6-12 months, based upon release cycles.
22. rodneyej1 (Posts: 3488; Member since: 06 Jul 2013)
What if MS blocked Google from its biggest OS that's on over 95% of computers laptops, and PCs around the world❔.. Without MS, and Windows, there would be no ungrateful Google..
26. woodshop20 (Posts: 459; Member since: 14 Sep 2013)
If MS blocked Google a lot of end users would revolt and switch over to IOS/Android tablets for web surfing.
86. rodneyej1 (Posts: 3488; Member since: 06 Jul 2013)
That's besides the point. I wouldn't suggest that they actually do that, it's the fact of the matter.. Short mined Android fans.. As usual..
94. sgodsell (Posts: 1002; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
They already are. Didn't Android sell more tablets then any other platform, and have been doing so for a while now.
97. bon24x7 (Posts: 203; Member since: 30 Aug 2012)
so you think the so called 95% of the PC users use it for web browsing alone? smh..
27. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
MS tried that in the 90's. Google "Netscape Navigator".
31. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
I think you would see a rise in the use of OSX and Chrome OS devices. Plus a probable bump in Mobile Web traffic. Google, good or bad (I thnk good, but I'm a Google Homer), is probably the most Ubiquitous name on the Internets. If MS took that away, they would really piss off a lot of people, even the lemmings and neophytes.
34. AwesomestMaximuss (Posts: 112; Member since: 09 Jul 2013)
Google is web based on PCs,,MS doesn't control web/internet,,so they cant block google,even if they tried.
44. PBXtech (Posts: 969; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)
The success rate of W8 is paltry compared to 7 and XP. For people like myself who are waiting for 9 in hopes it dumps the tile approach, blocking Google services would end that wait, we'd jump ship without hesitation.
48. Taters (Posts: 2648; Member since: 28 Jan 2013)
Why would MS do that? They would lose money doing that.
Google earns money boycotting MS.
90. kabhijeet.16 (Posts: 629; Member since: 05 Dec 2012)
The way you are defending MS clearly tells that you are product of MS...
For google, everyone uses google services. It makes life easy. Anybody who uses google services doesnt become its product.. Remember, google services/products are free.
"you would think that you are the customer/consumer of Google. You are the product for them." You should really think about your comment & come back.
62. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5580; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
"We are still learning few tricks from Apple"
And since Apple makes progress by being negative, I don't think MS has anything to worry about with Google moving the Android apps over to WP8. Reap what you sow and what-not.
6. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
I still fail to see why this is always such a huge deal! MIcrosoft is a direct competitor to Google. More so than apple. Apple is only a compteitor to Android. There is a difference. Bing and Outlook.com directy challange Google's Money pipe. And they have subpar, at best apps for android. Office on Android is a joke and MS wants it that way. They want you to switch over to MS ecosystem exclusivley. Google is just playing the same game. But everyone wants Google to be the altruist in all this and make a great product on WP. You want a good Google product on a mobile phone, get an Android. You want wndows phone, have at it. I want Facetime on Android but that's not ever going to happen. I want Android on Nokia hardware too. Still not ever going to happen. Can't always get what you want.
11. Finalflash (Posts: 1539; Member since: 23 Jul 2013)
That and the fact that MS's OS strategy in the past has been ridiculously bad. All that "we are going to release mango (7.8 or whatever other version) and support it till we die" bs they said and then they trash it all for 8. And for that matter, their 8.0 devices from last year can't go to 8.1 for the most part. How do you design for that kind of strategy in a cost effective way considering the future. MS is too busy shafting their customers, so why would anyone want to sign on to a platform that is likely going to fail because of the dinosaur retards behind it.
21. PBXtech (Posts: 969; Member since: 21 Oct 2013)
I was thinking similar, it probably started to sour when MS released Bing. The Scroogled ads can't be helping either.
8. AstronautJones (Posts: 248; Member since: 01 Aug 2012)
Why do you need facetime on Android?
Are there not already multiple video chating sevices available?
I am considering making the switch to WP myself. 1520 is intersering, but waiting for the 32 gb at ATT and the size is a little concern.
32 gb Nokia with a 5.5 inch and I am there!
10. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
It was a metaphor. But to explain, I wouldn't mind using a cross platform Facetime to communicate with my Apple friends and family. They all facetime each other and I don't want them to use ANOTHER app if they didn't have tooo. They all mostly have Apple because it's simpler. I personally use Google + Hangouts on video when I can and it's great. It worked when my kid was in a 3rd world country on a mission trip on crappy DSL. nearly flawlessly. But my point was, I want lots of cross platform stuff but I shouldn't throw a fit if I don't get it. I want MS Office on my Nexus 7 but I'll never get it.
68. elitewolverine (Posts: 1299; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)
Actually you can get MS Office on your nexus 7, through web apps.
As long as your nexus 7 can display proper webpages, then bam you log into outlook/live and select skydrive, new and select word or excel or powerpoint.
I can do this from my htc 8x through internet explorer. Blame Droid if your browser does not support html5 or css3
81. ePoch270 (Posts: 89; Member since: 26 Sep 2013)
Actually you CANNOT use Office 365 on an Android tablet. According to MS, the play store app is optimized for PHONES only. No tablets. And the web app for Android is a VIEWER. No editing capability. Becuse who needs that. I even subscribed to double check. NO JOY! I promptly Unsubscribed, so MS won't get my $$$
99. elitewolverine (Posts: 1299; Member since: 28 Oct 2013)
I was not talking about office 365...
As stated if your phone/tablet can display proper webpages...Then log into skydrive, select new and select word....
Not the app...your actual web browser. I just did it on a zony xperia in chrome browser in desktop mode.
I would suggest you try again, I can even post a youtube vid.
Again your tablet must support cc3 and html5 in the BROWSER.
40. Ty_inCA (Posts: 9; Member since: 13 Oct 2013)
If you like the 1520 but want 32gb, the 1020 is amazing. Unless you are set on the bigger size, it has no drawbacks, speedy, plenty of room, battery consistently gives me 24+ hours (it's only 2 months old but still, that's really good), and the camera is actually better than the hype. It's snap a picture of a hand from a few feet away, zoom in and see fingerprints good. WP's physical shutter button is one of those things that ruins every other smart phone once you try it too.
Admittedly, I'm a WP fan who likes to take pictures, so I'm the exact target market, but the 1020 is easily my favorite tech product I've ever owned.
13. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
"So far, the growth of Windows Phone is outpacing everything else combined"
Mr Maxwell, I disagree so much. Forget that 150% number in the charts.... WP launched in Nov 2010....its exactly 3 years later....where is WP at in market share?
Compare that to the iPhone from 2007 to 2010 and Android from 2008 to 2011.
Looking at overall market share, its just not getting enough attention. Not enough users. Its so bad in WP land....there is Nokia and I dont even know who else is making a WP now. Even tho Samsung is the top Android OEM right now, other phone makers are still relevant. HTC, LG and even Motorola, even tho they arent as popular as 2009, 2010 they are still relevant. Then you got Sony, and etc. I keep seeing Nokia releasing new WP's but not anyone else.
That speak volumes.
16. ThinkingBrian (Posts: 5; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)
I agree, I don't see much when it comes to WP. They just aren't in the game and that might be what Google is seeing too. In other words, if WP isn't in the game, then why would Google go through all the effect to build apps for it...
And from what I can tell, 8 out of every 10 Windows Phones (WP) are from Nokia, but the other ones are made by HTC and Samsung.
25. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2657; Member since: 26 May 2011)
You make it sound like you're comparing apples to apples (no pun intended), but you can't really compare the first 3 years of each because the first 3 years of Android and iOS were basically creating the smartphone market. WP is trying to break through established players which is always much more difficult.
28. woodshop20 (Posts: 459; Member since: 14 Sep 2013)
But they had Windows Mobile long before Apple or Google's OS. So technically they have had a lot more experience and knowledge.
Ultimately it's come down to the fact of Microsoft's lack of vision (for the mobile market) and they have no-one else but themselves to blame.
37. jellmoo (Posts: 644; Member since: 31 Oct 2011)
It's hardly the same thing though. Back when Windows Mobile was relevant, the only people with smartphones were business people and tech enthusiasts. It was only with the advent of the iPhone and later Android devices that smartphones became a mass market consumer product.
I'm not disagreeing with the overall point (Windows Phone *has* grown, but the pace has been very sluggish), but you can't compare what they've done with what happened when the market first really opened up.
43. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
No, Win Mo was relevant for the regular consumer. The Omnia 1 and 2 were two big selling Win Mo phones between 2008 and 2010.
Win Mo wouldnt have been 2nd in market share if it was only business ppl and tech enthusiast using it. BB had the business user market locked down... Do some of yall forget or just dont know that Win Mo was 2nd in market share before the iPhone launched?
95. sgodsell (Posts: 1002; Member since: 16 Mar 2013)
You seem to forget Microsoft was charging for their mobile OS upwards of $50 per handset.. Where Google was not charging anything for android. So Microsoft could not compete with free. They had to change. So they paid Nokia to make Windows Phone for them and kicked in 250 million per quarter, just to get back into the phone arena.
42. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
"But they had Windows Mobile long before Apple or Google's OS. So technically they have had a lot more experience and knowledge."
Exactly. MS (and BB) have absolutely no excuses when the iPhone and Android were really unknown when they both launched.
A company thats established for years gets its head handed to them by not 1 but 2 unknown players in the same market?
45. jroc74 (Posts: 4720; Member since: 30 Dec 2010)
Then what does that say about Android and the iPhone? They both had a bigger hurdle to overcome being very brand new.
At least with WP, MS was a more recognizable face for mobile phones.
The iPhone and Android were in the exact same boat WP was in ....and we know how that turned out..
55. MartyK (Posts: 693; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
I agree 100% with you, MS has touch pro 2 also,
But they didn't care if their customers had to pull the battery out every time that crap lock up!, all they wanted was our money.
71. rusticguy (Posts: 2826; Member since: 11 Aug 2012)
With all the money, all the advertisement, NOKIA (read ELOP) and monkey dancing on stage being behind WP if they couldn't make it to 10% share in 3 years, they are irrelevant for everyone.
According to IDC, smartphones accounted for 55% of total mobile phone shipments during the quarter, up from 42% in the third quarter of 2012 so basically smartphone market grew by 13% y-o-y and M$ phones just grew by 1.6% during the same period. If they cannot convince a feature phone to smartphone upgrade client, who do they sell to?
Compare this to Huawei that grew by 30% and LG that grew by 16% during same period. This is called "fastest" growing and not windows which is trailing the smartphone market growth by at least 10X
15. ThinkingBrian (Posts: 5; Member since: 15 Nov 2013)
Well then I guess Google isn't doing anything for Microsoft just like Apple isn't doing anything for Google.
Think about it, Google built the new YouTube app with Microsoft for Windows Phones to only disable it??? Come on...There is a piece missing here. May be its Microsoft having an issue with YouTube ads that pays for a lot of this stuff? So then it stands to reason that if Microsoft is having this problem with Google and YouTube, then why would Google go to all the effort to build a GMail, Google Drive, Google Keep and beyond on Windows Phone if Microsoft if cant play nice on the YouTube app?
Think about this as well. Apple is losing too and playing a similar game, they are missing out on a big opportunity to make some serious cash on Google and Android, the legal way...you guessed it iTunes on Android. That would be huge. A consumer like myself being about to buy, download and play TV Shows, Movies and Music from iTunes on my Nexus 7, that would be cool for me and a huge payday for Apple. But instead Apple is simply suiting everyone, at least when it comes to Android.
Makes me wonder.
23. InspectorGadget80 (Posts: 6197; Member since: 26 Mar 2011)
I know Google can but M$ is just being greedy as Apple when it comes to competition
24. livyatan (Posts: 675; Member since: 19 Jun 2013)
Yet another horrid lack of perception and perspective.
Try to grasp the following for once, Maxwell - the growth of Windows phone is TINY.
We are talking about a mere 5.8 million phones more being sold compared to the same period a year ago.
In a world where Android sells 211 million phones in a quarter, and has an absolute growth of 71 MILLION compared to same period last year, saying that windows is "outperforming " all others combined is a gigantic insanity.
Here's a figure for you - Android had a 650% yearly growth in its third year.
30. Altair (Posts: 320; Member since: 02 Feb 2012)
Why you ask? Its simple. Microsoft makes more money with Android, than Google itself :)
MS earns 2 billion cash every year because of Android licenses, while Google earns zero bucks.