Why Google went with Texas Instruments silicon for the Galaxy Nexus Android ICS poster child
0. phoneArena 19 Oct 2011, 14:36 posted on
Whether it is because TI's OMAP 4460 plays well with LTE basebands, because it has excellent Image Signal Processor and the IVA3 multimedia accelerator, or just because of office politics, TI's OMAP family enters the spotlight with the Galaxy Nexus...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. Kamil92 (Posts: 1; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
How do you know that Motorola RAZR have OMAP 4460?
5. crankyd00d (Posts: 191; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Yes I would like to know the same, from what I read somewhere the CPU in the RAZR is the older 4430, though I would be glad to be wrong.
10. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
it's more likely that it's an underclocked 4460 not an overclocked 4430. Motorola and Texas Instruments don't usually overclock anything.
12. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
because moto said so :) moto uses a lot of OMAP chips.
50. cheetah2k (Posts: 869; Member since: 16 Jan 2011)
Quote: "....This power-sipping is partly due to two ARM Cortex-M3 cores that complement the high-powered 1.5GHz Cortex-A9 ones for mundane tasks that don't require much energy like standby..."
So the OMAP 4460 is essentially Quad Core??
2 x A9 CPU's + 2 x M3 CPU's
How awesome is that!!!
57. willardcw4 (Posts: 169; Member since: 01 Oct 2011)
too bad the GPU on the 4460 isn't that great :(
60. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
only in comparison to the Exynos's and A5's GPUs and it's really not that far from being as good as Exynos's.
76. moosa.mahsoom (Posts: 22; Member since: 19 Nov 2011)
its the 3rd best at moment. on paper, it seems games run equally well as S2.
if the nexus had the upcoming TI OMAP 4470. it could have beaten iPhone 4S in everything. GPU is PowerVR SGX544
64. rd_nest (Posts: 825; Member since: 06 Jun 2010)
That's not entirely true. The 4470 only has this extra M3 cores for mundane tasks. 4430 and 4460 does not have these core.
Note that the 4460 was previously called 4440.
2. som (Posts: 768; Member since: 10 Nov 2009)
Cortex is Samsung brand too. Only Qualcomm is a different company.
6. Nick040489 (Posts: 19; Member since: 01 Apr 2010)
Actually Cortex is made by ARM Holdings. Samsung makes the Hummingbird processor based on the architecture.
7. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
Qualcomm uses an ARM based architecture in their S3s as well but it's only Cortex A7. the differences lies in the companies' SoCs.
11. crankyd00d (Posts: 191; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
Actually I believe Cortex is ARM's, Samsung just licenses the chip designs just like Apple, nVidia, Qualcomm, etc.
45. NeXoS (Posts: 278; Member since: 03 May 2011)
Hey PA, how about an article and cool infographic about all the chips and their makers?
48. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
they actually did not so long ago. o:
3. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
good article. you guys have just rested a few of my cases for me. (:
8. roldefol (Posts: 3182; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
If it's true that the gen 1 Exynos can't play well with LTE, that should settle it. I don't expect this to quiet the Exynos-or-bust crowd though.
13. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
well i had speculated that the 4460 should rival the Exynos 4210 just fine and it's proven now that it does so you're really not missing out on anything with a 4460. i still think Samsung's Exynos powered handsets throws off Quadrant somehow.
15. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
who you talking about?? lol :)
the Razrs performance is good for java performance.. very good. unfortunately thats just 1 small slice of the pie.
It does bring me a little bit of hope about the chip though..
looks like imma just have to get passed my exynos/exynos 4212 obsession for now.. BOOO
20. roldefol (Posts: 3182; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Or you could just wait around for the Galaxy S 3, which should be coming to the States by... oh, 2013.
30. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
nope nope... cant do that either. ( ok.. i dont WANT to :) ) guess im at a loss.. nexus prime is back to my #1 choice again.. lol
9. ardent1 (Posts: 1999; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
Question for Daniel P: if the TI chip is so great, why the lousy 5 MP shooter.
I don't know the answer but I bet cost was a factor. It doesn't make sense for Google to cut corners on their phone unless it faced budget constraints. The 5 MP shooter is the strongest evidence the phone faced these budget constraints. We'll never know the answer since these supply contracts are confidential, but don't be suprised if TI was more aggressive than Samsung on the price front.
14. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
does it really matter? it's not like it's a matter of whether the OMAP can handle it. besides pictures and videos look just fine on the G.N. the Droid RAZR uses the same processor and it has an 8MP camera. is that better?
26. ardent1 (Posts: 1999; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
Yes it does matter. It's one thing if Samsung ran out of 8 MP shooters so the Nexus is stuck with a 5 MP shooter. If you are coming with a high end, why skim on the details?
My question to Daniel is I believe cost was an issue and that is why the TI chip was chosen.
I am not debating picture quailty, I am debating these phones are expensive to make, and compromises have to be made. Choosing a 5 MP shooter in an era of 8 MP (for christ sakes, even the iPhone 4S has an 8 MP) means someone who makes a lot of money at Google had to make the decision to go with a 5 MP shooter.
29. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
well we're saying this 5MP camera is probably just as good or better than any of the older 8MP ones so why would it cost less than those?
42. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
it's speculation same as what you're spouting out with. forget this phone was just announced yesterday? like jeeze. wait for some hands-on treatment guy. it'll make sense.
18. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
ardent, do you ever have a clue... ever?
MPX means.. NOTHING.. its a number. it has nothing to do with image quality, clarity, color reproduction, artifacts and loss.. or anything.. other than the actual dimensions of the picture.
for someone that likes to call people names all the time, you never really have a clue. lol
on a side note, this is the only reason i care about camera mpx on a phone, because some loudmouth is gonna walk in and talk about how crappy the camera is sight-unseen because of the arbitrary number infront of the mpx stat. point proven by ardent.
how about we wait until we get a retail version of the device and do some camera comparisons vs other phones like the i4s, s2, mytouch 4g slide... if it sucks then, then it sucks.. but something tells me it wont.
21. roldefol (Posts: 3182; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
If the number of megapixels on a camera is so important as to drive someone away from the Nexus, they probably don't need the phone. Oh well, more for those of us in the know.
(I was about to say "deserve the phone"...)
23. ardent1 (Posts: 1999; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
remixfa, you are such the babbling village idiot. How can you not understand that this phone is going against the iPhone?
It's not just MP, it's what you do with it, so why can't the Samsung just include the same 8 MP as in the Galaxy 2 line.
Are you saying Samsung ran out of 8 MP shooters? remixfa, you can be really dense.
25. roldefol (Posts: 3182; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Maybe the 5 MP camera in the Nexus is actually _better_ than the 8 MP unit in the Galaxy S2. We won't know until reviews start appearing.
31. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
are you going to "taco's school for lack of reading comprehension"???
maybe you should spend less time hurling insults and more time reading.
the 8mpx camera in the sgs2 is the same crap pinhole camera thats in pretty much every cell phone. The only phones that i can recall that have anything different are the Nexus Prime, i4s and nokia n8.
megapixel doesnt matter.. u really need to get that through your head.
40. ardent1 (Posts: 1999; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
remixfa, taco made this great observation how when you lose a debate you start throwing things like things out of left field.
I have an iPod Touch 4G and I can record videos in 720P. The people who face the same problem now want to be able to record in 1080P.
remixfa, you harp on the camera FORGETTING that it is also a camcorder. remixfa, you are REALLY, REALLY dense.
44. RageQuit (Posts: 41; Member since: 05 Sep 2011)
If you are complaining about it not being able to record in 1080P then you need to read more. just because it has a 5MP camera doesn't mean it cant. 5MP is well above what is needed for 1080P.
52. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
it records in 1080p at 30fps. i fail to see your point..
oh, because have none.. lol
ardent, like normal you are clueless, and full of hot air. thanks for referencing taco, proving that you are even more clueless. taco hasnt won an arguement in as long as i can remember.. lol he wouldnt know what i'm like when i lose an arguement to him, because it hasnt happened. you came close.. a heck of a lot closer than him.. but it just hasnt happened.
what happens when i make a mistake or am wrong in an arguement?
i say "woops" or "my faux pas" or "your right".
if you havent seen that, its because u havent won an arguement. heck, i used that terminology on the boards today, go find it.... lol.
go back to thumbing yourself up.... lol
35. maxican16 (Posts: 364; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)
I /THINK/ one reason to go with a 5MP camera vs 8MP is the zero shutter lag feature. The better sensor in the 5MP offering would offset any cheaper costs, and may even be more expensive than an 8MP shooter with lesser sensor.
36. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
zero shutter lag is a software feature within ICS. any phone that gets the update should have zero shutter lag in the camera.
54. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
that may or may not be true. the only thing a 8mpx has over a 5 by default is actual image size. the zero lag might not be possible at higher sizes just because of the image size. maybe it will be "quarter second lag" lol. who knows, but it actually sounds like a plausible reason.
we will find out really quickly though when other ICS phones come out or get upgraded with bigger cameras.
61. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
i wouldn't imagine that happening to a dual-core phone that ICS is making it reach it's full potential but i suppose it's possible with updated single core phones.
16. tech-head (Posts: 132; Member since: 02 Sep 2011)
Well whats up wit dis?
pare.jsp?benchmark=glpro21&sho whide=true&certified_only=1&D1 =Google%20Nexus%20S&D2=Google% 20Galaxy%20Nexus&D3=Samsung%20 GT-i9100%20Galaxy%20S2&D4=Apple%2 0iPhone%204S
28. Kevro_86 (Posts: 11; Member since: 19 Oct 2011)
While I have very little knowledge of what all of these specific benchmarks are actually measuring, I will say that the Galaxy Nexus appears to be outperformed by Galaxy S-II and iPhone 4S in almost all areas. Not cool. But, then again, what does all of this mean in terms of real world phone usage?
49. ojdidit84 (Posts: 418; Member since: 16 Jul 2011)
I have a hard time believing that the Galaxy Nexus is outperformed in almost every single category by my current EVO 3D...
55. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
ok.. assuming that it is an accurate test..
your comparing pre release alpha/beta software against a refined monster like the SGS2 and iphone4s. Need I remind you how poorly the SGS2 performed in pre-release state? It got beat by a snapdragon and the tegra2.. lol
Would you say these prelim tests hold a candle to what the exynos was when it went retail?? not a chance.. optimized drivers can make a helluva difference in performance.
17. Daniel.P (Posts: 102; Member since: 14 Jul 2011)
Very good point about the cost structure, I was wondering about the wholesale price of the chipsets too, maybe in a teardown or two we can compare.
Actually the difference between the 5MP and 8MP modules could be only a few bucks, guess Samsung didn't want to undercut its own Galaxy S II versions and maybe the Note. In any case, it should have been cheaper to produce with Exynos instead of adjusting to OMAP...
19. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
cost structure, wouldnt the Exynos be more expencive to buy at retail concidering there are less of them made and its the "premium" chip at the moment? economies of scale and demand say that it should be the highest priced dual core chip right now. of course, none of us will ever know the true pricing between suppliers more than likely.
the difference between the 5mpx n 8mpx camera is negligible for pricing.. your also assuming that all 8mpx cameras are better than all 5mpx cameras which isnt true. If the 5mpx camera is made of better equipment and is able to do more things, then its going to be more expensive than the 8mpx camera.
Maybe google is making a statement about quality over a number.
22. roldefol (Posts: 3182; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
I think the vertical integration of Samsung using its own Exynos would negate the "premium chip" cost.
I completely agree on the camera though. Maybe if they'd used an 8 MP unit, the Nexus wouldn't be able to do its lagless and panoramic camera tricks as easily. I prefer to think it was a performance choice, not cost cutting or contrast with the Galaxy S2.
32. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
maybe.. maybe not. samsung operates as many huge arms of the same company. who knows how it sells products to itself to retain profit margins. hell, it could sell itself its own products across arms at a higher cost to show increased margins on the arms it shows off (like mobile) vs the arms it doesnt (like its TV arm thats losing money)..
thats all pure speculation and conjecture but the point remains the same. Just because its all the same parent company doesnt mean each arm isnt working and operating independently and maintaining its own P&L reports.
24. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
well it's still a MP count. it still matters but only if they both have similar capabilities like you pointed out there.
34. ardent1 (Posts: 1999; Member since: 16 Apr 2011)
remixfa, this is the same logic as your RD expense belongs in gross profit margins post. There's more to cost structure than economies of scale; economies of scale would be an argument for lower chip cost, not higher chip cost, etc, etc.
As for the 8 MP shooter, my point is since this is the flagship device, it should have the best available features and if 8MP is the current standard, the Google should launch the phone with the best possible 8 MP shooter. Obviously this simple point eludes remixfa, TBVIPA.
No one is talking about MP for the sake of MP (except remixfa since he has nothing else to grasp on). Here's the point: Apple has made the 8MP a feature to compete on and it is foolish of Google to walk away from this challenge over a few dollars.
Here's an analogy, when Lexus came to market going against established brands like Mercedes or BMW, you don't see Lexus skimping or cost cutting it's way to win customers. The LS 400 was a Tour de Force such that it established the Lexus franchise. Google needs to wake up and get someone who undertands the cell phone is being commoditized and unless Google stands heads and shoulder above the field, it too will be commoditized. How you know if a company is producing commodities as opposed to high value products: you look at its gross margins. Companies with single to low two digit gross margins are at risk for being marginalized.
37. Thump3rDX17 (Posts: 2160; Member since: 10 May 2010)
you're just not going to listen are you? xD
38. maxican16 (Posts: 364; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)
One thing is for sure... you certainly live up to your name.
47. roldefol (Posts: 3182; Member since: 28 Jan 2011)
Who says the Nexus needs to compete spec for spec with the iPhone? I for one stopped considering the iPhone when they stuck with the older design and screen size. The impression I got from the iPhone 4S camera presentation is that they needed to revamp the camera completely just to get as good or better picture quality from an 8 MP sensor. Which they can afford to do, since they didn't spend anything on a new design or screen tech.
The camera isn't meant to be the Nexus' star feature. That would be the screen and the OS.
59. remixfa (Posts: 14175; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
ever notice how you are the only one that ever agrees with you??
27. CX3NT3_713 (Posts: 2010; Member since: 18 Apr 2011)
Sooo?? We should see netflix HD, on LG thrill ?soon?
33. ph00ny (Posts: 606; Member since: 26 May 2011)
LOL at browser benchmarks again. Same reasoning applies to this as well but these results are heavily depended on the browsers
39. maxican16 (Posts: 364; Member since: 29 Sep 2011)
Nice article. Excited to see real (not user submitted) benchmarks and see what this thing is really capable of!
43. knights4life03 (Posts: 131; Member since: 09 Jun 2011)
so how bout that droid razr!!! lol if we are talking about cameras, samsung might be on par with the 5 megapixel camera,even tho its not 8 megapixels. it might beat the droid razr (camera) because motorola hasnt been great with 8 megapixel shooters in image quality and on how it performs. their new devices like droid 3 droid x2 photon and droid bionic are the examples. O and one other thing, the first motorola atrix had a 5 mp shooter and it was superior over their new devices