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When is an Android an Android?

0. phoneArena 27 Mar 2012, 12:09 posted on

Recently, we've been talking about the supposed Android "fragmentation" problem, and how we feel like the word is misused, loaded, and inherently wrong for the issues at hand. That said, there is one place in the Android...

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 17:09 1

60. EclipseGSX (Posts: 1717; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)

I dont think, i know. The fact you attempted to insult me just seals the deal

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 21:30 1

64. NOKIA.8800.ARTE (Posts: 100; Member since: 26 Mar 2012)

Eclipse uve been drinking to much!
Stop drinking and writing you dodo.....!?

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 14:13 2

50. ilia1986 (unregistered)

Yet another awesome article, Michael!

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 14:13 1

51. jldleo (Posts: 38; Member since: 09 Aug 2011)

Cool story bro..

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 14:31 1

53. c.hack (Posts: 609; Member since: 09 Dec 2009)

WTF. How many Google lawyers did it take to write this article.

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 15:52 2

59. protozeloz (Posts: 5396; Member since: 16 Sep 2010)

how many haters going to get in here?

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 15:01 3

54. theBankRobber (Posts: 681; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)

This is another good story by Mike, it really educates sheep on what involves in the whole Google process. Sadly people will still act 12 and talk trash because they can't tell the difference from a low end to a high end android device.

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 15:04 5

55. Jericho (unregistered)

an awesome article ruined by punk.


posted on 27 Mar 2012, 15:08 2

56. Jericho (unregistered)

an awesome article ruined by punk.


posted on 27 Mar 2012, 15:35

58. Tmachaveli (Posts: 425; Member since: 01 Apr 2011)

Wow I see that things never change no matter how you much you change you name you still a a hater

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 17:36 4

61. biophone (Posts: 1956; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)

You know I would argue that this is a flaw in Android. Before you jump on me lets me explain. First off all there is a lot of good and some bad with having an open source ecosystem. The good is well documented but the bad includes differentiation of the ecosystem with different user interfaces which has implications. While this does give choice this makes updates slower. So for the average android user a differentiated ecosystem sucks. If you but a Droid Charge on Verizon which was top of the line when you bought it you where stuck on a two year old build of android and its been updated to a year old build of android and will never have the newest software. Compared to the Apple iPhone 3gs when you bought it had the newest os and has been updated to the newest os two iterations afterwards. Granted some features are withheld but that is the beauty of a closed ecosystem you can with hold some features to update an old phone to a new os. Granted Apple has abused this and hasn't given capable devices certain features but that is a ploy to encourage users to spend more money which is understandable. So maybe fragmentation is the wrong word how I would describe it is differentiated to a high degree causing flaws for most Android phones in certain aspects related to an Android ecosystem. That is why it makes sense to compare iPhone vs Nexus as exhibits the form of the ecosystem supported by the creator of the ecosystem without the hindrances of other companies. Thats my take on Android and fragmentation.

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 20:14

63. Whateverman (Posts: 3262; Member since: 17 May 2009)

Where I disagree is when you say "for the average user the differentiated ecosystem sucks." The average Android AND iOS user is oblivious to what any of these updates are for, or what features they get with them. So to say these people are having bad experiences is somewhat wishful thinking. Of course those of us here would like to see timely updates, but most people don't care because they just think their phone is cool the way it is.

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 22:23 2

66. biophone (Posts: 1956; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)

I didn't say that right. I didn't mean the experience sucks but more that a differentiated ecosystem will compromise updates which sucks as in lame not the experience sucks. People do care about updates my friends not into phones care when they don't get updates. It sucks but the experience can still be good. Get it?

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 22:00 2

65. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

I totally agree. That's the breaking point right there for most users. If you want to know that your phone is the best out there for a year, and you want to have the same experience as your friends, go with iOS. If you want an experience customized for you, even if that means new devices (mildly) eclipse your hardware soon after you buy, go with Android. it's the exact same argument as Windows vs Mac

posted on 27 Mar 2012, 22:24 2

67. biophone (Posts: 1956; Member since: 15 Jun 2011)

exactly I am not saying one is better then the other but there are different with different things each ecosystem is better at.

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 16:03 1

76. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

which one is better at not burning the bacon?

well, we know its not the new ipad, it turns the heat up too high.. lolz. sorry couldnt resist.

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 01:47 1

68. snowgator (Posts: 3583; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)

Well written article, Mr. Heller. We have grown to just believe if you have written it, it will be good.

These ideas have been kicked around a lot about Android, but getting them in one place where there is a handy reference point to bounce back to is appreciated. I have a hard time explaining OS's quickly to people when they ask me, as I feel the need to get all the information in. It truly helps when a page long article sums it up, helping me to get the information streamlined.

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 10:34

72. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)


posted on 28 Mar 2012, 01:51 1

69. roscuthiii (Posts: 2217; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)

Michael, you sir... are a word-smith.

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 10:34 1

73. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

I prefer wordslinger, but I appreciate the sentiment. Thanks!

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 01:53 1

70. roscuthiii (Posts: 2217; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)

When should we expect Victor's rebuttal?

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 14:24

74. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

You probably shouldn't expect one. I've talked to Victor about the "fragmentation" issue, and we both agree that the word doesn't fit the problems.

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 16:05

77. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

then he should stop sensationalizing it.

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 06:00 1

86. roscuthiii (Posts: 2217; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)

That must have been some impressive word-smithing Michael. ;-)

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 09:12

87. hepresearch (unregistered)

errr... wordslinging...

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 05:52

71. bbblader (Posts: 590; Member since: 24 Oct 2011)

android 18 from dbz was an android before it was a software name

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 18:06

78. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

Great job with this article, You think you can write one about why more Android device is being built without expansion slots and no removable battery?

Because from my understanding, as a Mac user and owner of everything Mac, this is the MAIN reason why people, including myself never bother with an iCrap iPhone. Although Apples ecosystem is better as far as quality is concern. However I was OK, comfortable with Android ecosystem. However if the new trend in smartphone are going to be like the iPhone, with no expansion slots and removable battery. Why would I chose to continue with Android, it's a no brainier that being force chose between all the non removable no expansion slot phone in the up coming market, Lots of Mac owner with Androids device will jump onto the iPhone bandwagon. After all the ecosystem is better every which way.

However in a perfect world I WANT to stay with Android phone, because of the removable battery and expansion slots. I don't care what anyone says, I need that extra battery in my pocket. I have all my family and friends on that dam iCrap iPhone, running around like a chicken with it's head cut off looking for an outlet all over the city. I don't want to be one of those headless chickens kind of people. However if I were force, then I will gladly be that headless chicken looking for a plug for my iPhone 5. Can you write about this new trend, and do you see a movement from Android to Apple because of this? Thank you.

posted on 28 Mar 2012, 22:18

80. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

I already covered why Google is pushing the ecosystem away from SD cards:

I haven't seen many Android devices without removable batteries, but I would assume that's for the same reason that Apple gave when it moved to fixed batteries in its laptops: when you don't have to build the pieces for a removable battery, you have more space and can put in a bigger battery (which theoretically removes the need to remove the battery, for 90% of users). You may be part of the 10% that kills your battery no matter how big it is, just like me. But, for most people, it's better to have a bigger battery than the ability to swap.

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 14:20

88. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

That is my point, 90% of people using smartphone with no removable battery, are running around all over town looking for an open outlet to juice up their device. I just don't want to become one of those headless chicken walking around with my phone and PLUG, because a extra battery is way way smaller than a cell plug. So call is what ever it's still going to be a BIG lost to the Android phone, as many people I know who are Mac Book owners will just move onto the iPhone with the BEST ecosystem. Oh well, this is what Android gets if they are going to force people to chose.

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 16:06

89. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

I don't know. I always carried a second battery when I had a Nexus One, but since getting the Galaxy Nexus, I just started carrying a USB cable. I'm never far from electricity for that long, so there's no "running around", it's just a matter of a bit of planning.

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 16:37 1

90. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

My point exactly, "Planning" Why plan when you just reach into a pocket and swap battery. Simple concept, don't you think? Who wants to plan plug in time, not me in my very bust schedule. Maybe I'll have to hire yet another person for this taste. LOL! Nuts.

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 21:26

91. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

Okay, maybe "planning" wasn't the right word. More accurately, I would say it takes "thinking for half a second about my daily schedule". In all likelihood, I'm probably not as busy as you, if you get stressed about finding time to plug in your phone, but I find this way just works better.

Consider this: when I had two batteries, I always had to worry about whether I had charged both. If I forgot to charge one, I was screwed because I wouldn't have a cable with me. The only time I had to charge both was when I was sleeping, but I didn't have an extra charger, so I would have to plan both charge cycles around when I was going to be awake. That means, in order to have the system work, I'd have to buy an extra battery (~$50) and a battery charger (~$20-$50.) Or, I could just keep a USB cable ($0.50) in my bag.

Maybe you're too busy to plug in your phone, but my point is that you are probably an exception. Most people have no problems with plugging in their devices, and so, it would make sense that most devices not use removable batteries (remember most, not all, so you'll never lose your choice.)

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 21:47

92. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)

true, there is almost always somewhere to plug in your phone. home, car, office, mcdonalds, whatever.

posted on 29 Mar 2012, 23:36 1

93. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

My point is out of the many years I've been using my cell, I only plug in when I went to bed. Why should I have to plug in during my awake time. You all seem so comfortable with this sitting and waiting to juice up. I on the other hand, find myself too busy to sit and wait. I never plug in at work, car or McDy. I damned more from my device than I guess you do. I do see your point, if I had all the time in the world it would be a non issue for me.

posted on 30 Mar 2012, 16:25

96. MichaelHeller (Posts: 2703; Member since: 26 May 2011)

I don't understand why you would be sitting and waiting. I know that if I get halfway through my work day and I have less than 50% battery left, my phone won't make it til I get home. So, while I'm working, I plug it in. Not sitting and waiting for it to charge. Unless you are constantly using your phone (and not just on the phone because a bluetooth and charging cable would still work fine,) there's no reason why plugging in should be that big a deal.

Yes, for years you could get away with just plugging in at night and being done with it, but until we get better battery tech (which is always the slowest to improve), you're gonna have to change how you do things. Using that as an excuse to complain about something that isn't even a problem (it's just something that you'd rather not do) is the same as complaining that your electricity bill is a few dollars higher per month because you have a 50" plasma instead of a 27" CRT.

You have a freaking mini-computer in your pocket, and it has power needs. Just because you've chosen to never plug it in unless you're at home doesn't mean that's the best option for everyone, and it doesn't mean that a few manufacturers making non-removable battery devices is going to kill the way you do things.

posted on 30 Mar 2012, 16:53 1

97. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

I do use my phone a lot, never in one place through out the day. So to leave my phone at my desk defeats the purpose of it being mobile. Just as you yourself stated "until we get better battery tech (which is always the slowest to improve)" Why are these new Android even bothering with this no removable battery? We need it, Plus one big issue here, I enjoy going on vacation a lot, what then, No work desk for me to sit and wait for my phone to charge. It's obvious your very comfortable siting and waiting at your desk to get powered up. I'm not!

However, like I stated, many Mac user who own everything Mac, except the iCrap iPhones, will now be very disappointed that the option of no expansion slot or removable battery is gone. So if having to go with those only option, well then it's a no brainier to go with the one that has the best support around any street corner the apple genius bar, plus best ecosystem. Before this new trend, I was all about Android from head to toe, I love love love having that extra battery and expansion slot. No it won't kill me, however Kill Android for losing their Mac Boys Fandroids...

posted on 30 Mar 2012, 09:19 1

94. tedkord (Posts: 11629; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)

Excuse my butting in, but the reason I prefer a removeable battery is that if I'm on the move, and my battery gets down near dead, I'm going to need to leave it plugged in for quite a while to get significant charge. Battery tech isn't to the point where you can charge up a 1700mah in 15 minutes. You might get an extra 5%, then be on the move again. You haven't improved your situation.

I run until dead, then pop in my backup. I have a Thunderbolt, which with the newest Eternity roms gets much improved life, and two Rezound batteries which cost me $20 each from Verizon - not $50. With both batteries, I never have any issue with running out of juice.

Plus, the extra battery is way less bulky to carry than a charger.

(I've also got a car charger/dock, and a desktop dock at work.)

posted on 30 Mar 2012, 11:31 1

95. phoenixpr (Posts: 167; Member since: 28 Mar 2012)

@tedkord: I agree, this is my point 100%. Much much eaiser to carry that extra battery, than having to sit and wait. I know for a fact those that do sit and wait HATE it! Battery has not yet evolved to the point where these device should have fixed battery. Sorry but we are not there yet, I don't care to hear how much fun it is to sit and wait at a Starbucks and chit chat while waiting.

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