What does Nokia need to get out of the gutter?
0. phoneArena 20 Jul 2012, 07:08 posted on
In just over a year, Nokia went from a profitable company, to the biggest loser the industry has ever seen - the company has burned a billion dollars…
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. wendygarett (unregistered)
How about, Kick Stephen Elop instead !!! just joking lol
12. nagabiru003 (Posts: 11; Member since: 04 Jun 2012)
yeah, return him to Microsoft, and ask for refund
13. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
if elop didnt came in there wasnt any wp or meego phones only symbians
20. bobfreking55 (Posts: 866; Member since: 15 Jul 2011)
you know symbian is still good and useable. the ecosystem and feel is just outdated. I would actually prefer MeeGo and Android over WP because of it's open nature, Mass Storage etc.
Samsung went Nokia's previous ways with SD Cards and Removable batteries... Now Nokia wants to be Apple, with closed systems and the like --- who do they come to? one of Apple's biggest competitors, Microsoft.
everyone thought the Nokia Lumia would crush everything, including me. I lost faith already. Last Nokia phone I would actually want to own is the N9.
35. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
then why did no one cared about developing high quality apps for it i know it is good OS but its not given enough attention by anyone nokia or developers thats why it is going down hard
36. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
and openness is not everything people use to brag its only one reson Android users say its better but there is others things that are also involved i dont mind a closed OS as long it is butter smooth and easy to use i am happy with it and WP beats android in these 2 matter straight out of the box with no extra apps if i had android i need a whole week just to tweek the phone for my use and getting use to it is even harder and their is alsoways a risk of bricking the phone if power faliure occrues for example on my WP i never had to do these stuff at all i love it the way it is and Games are awsome on it Android wont have the quality that wp has to offer and wp8 is comming with i think u might have heard of = Dx support native to PC where it leads well u can imagine
50. microsoftnokiawin (Posts: 1178; Member since: 30 Mar 2012)
elop had nothing to do with meego
meego was being developed since release of nokia n900
57. downphoenix (Posts: 3155; Member since: 19 Jun 2010)
Well Meego was going to come anyway without Elop, Elop just killed it off before it launched and released the stillborn N9 to virtually nowhere.
Symbian was just fine as it is, it just needed to be updated to play catch up with Android and iOS, or at the very least become the "low tier" for their smartphones and have meego be the next generation, if it was not feasible to update the platform. As far as meego getting poor US Carrier support, I feel like this is somehow Nokia's fault, Nokia was the #1 cellphone oem in the US before the Iphone came out. They clearly had the clout to get Symbian devices on carriers subsidized, but they failed to do so.
48. snowgator (Posts: 3556; Member since: 19 Jan 2011)
Mr. Elop did two major things wrong:
1) Killed Symbian before WP was a proven winner. While I liked the N9, killing off the R&D costs for MeeGo was not a poor decision. Killing off your cash cow, even if it was aging and unable to compete long term with Android and iOS, was just short sighted and left them with a sink or swim immediately situation instead of an opportunity to allow WP to grow.
2) Being way to honest. One of the most important jobs of the CEO is to make the unpopular decision and make it look popular. Slapping everyone in the face with the "everything you have done up to now is outdated and worthless" was a dumb way to go about things.
I like the decisions, but just think it was silly to make them this painful. At this point WP8 is the witching hour for Nokia. Mr. Elop needs to see huge gains in marketshare, or else he will be shown the door.
2. Veigald (Posts: 290; Member since: 13 Jan 2012)
What Nokia needs to do? First of all complete the turn-around operation they're in, which is going to take another year or so.
Nokia is like an athlete stopping to exercise and starting to eat fast-food. If he does that for a long time, it will take even longer to lose weight and getting into shape again. Under previous management, the athlete that used to be Nokia became a fat slob who didn't care about anything than short-term pleasure. Elop and the current team has to deal with getting the company into shape again.
And for the R&D comment, it should be pointed out that Nokia is now filing more new patents than they have done since 2007.
Nokia simply will not be profitable at least until Q1 next year, that is how long these things take. Not that you would expect the average phone-forum user to understand that, so most likely this article will be spammed by "fire Elop" and "push Android" comments...
17. Edmund (Posts: 656; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The armchair CEO's commenting here and on other tech blogs don't realize just how significant the paradigm shift to WP8 will be. They're also quite ignorant to the fact that android's ecosystem is so far behind the 8 ball that it will be years before google comes even remotely close to catching up.
31. rocky459 (Posts: 6; Member since: 27 Mar 2012)
True its not about current loss , in long run, it will rule and yes now the war is not about the OS its just about ecosystem , and after win8 its complete :D :D
6. MeoCao (unregistered)
That's not gonna happen in near term, they have a contract with MS
51. Bluedroid (Posts: 57; Member since: 12 Sep 2011)
Nokia could produce a Google Nexus device which could be there saviour as the hardware and software would not have to be tweaked like a samsung or htc skinned device...
16. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
oh so u think its like a switch button that shifts from wp to android do u have any idea what it takes to switch the company from technologies or did this idea just came to your mind. For now it is IMPOSSIBLE to go on android with low cash and low time no one shifts hard
4. JunitoNH (Posts: 1613; Member since: 15 Feb 2012)
Very simple, ask Apple permission to use iOS, at the end beneficial for both parties. If those negotiations don't go well, there is always Android **sigh***
46. aokde (Posts: 186; Member since: 09 Jul 2012)
its ironic how your 12 thumbs up point at him as an idiot, and his 18 thumbs down point telling people to listen to what you have to say about him lol!
5. som (Posts: 768; Member since: 10 Nov 2009)
Nokia committed to WP OS only is a self destruction.
38. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
but it was only way u noobs could ever have a chance to get a new different OS which is in middle of IOS and android features of both and technology of its own i think WP8 will break the streak of big established OSs it takes time to gain market especially when compition is sky high , once Android was the s**tiest OS and everyone use to laugh on it once now its most widespread OS even though it has flaws and the only reson for its success is it has only 1 competetor yet = ios now there is hihg potential competetor wp and its all better for end user
45. Whateverman (Posts: 3250; Member since: 17 May 2009)
Why are you so angry? And why don't you use punctuation marks? It makes your rants against Android tough to read.
It's okay if Android isn't your thing, it's not for everyone. No OS can be. But hitching your dying company to an OS that no one was buying is suicide and the numbers are proving that. WP7/8 could become the market leader in the future, so it's a good thing to have a WP device in their stable. But it would be even smarter to have a device with the most sought after OS on earth...Android. It makes sense to everyone except Elop.
7. alterecho (Posts: 1098; Member since: 23 Feb 2012)
Wow, i didn't know that info about Nokia Maps. I thought Google had the extensive coverage till now, with its ubiqutous Google Maps. This is actually a HUGE asset for Nokia if what is said here is true.
21. Victor.H (Posts: 651; Member since: 27 May 2011)
Don't misunderstand us here - Google is big in the States and a few other countries, and street view is great. When it comes to pretty much any other country, though, Nokia has much more coverage.
32. rocky459 (Posts: 6; Member since: 27 Mar 2012)
Truly OFFLINE WITH LIFETIME VOICE NAVIGATION from past many years :D :D
41. jackhammeR (Posts: 1548; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)
...and people like you tend to critisize Nokia even if they don't know about its advantages,
8. MeoCao (unregistered)
Shrink the Pure View technology to fit into phones and you have a winner.
9. script_writer (banned) (Posts: 56; Member since: 27 Jun 2012)
i think we all know that android is way to go cos windows phone 7 has been a major disappointment from day 1 and windows phone 8 looks the way. Apple are so uptight about everything that it just wont happen. Android is definatly the way to go
10. abraham (Posts: 11; Member since: 19 Jul 2012)
Android is a crowded ship.Samsung is the only company making profit from android devices..So WP is the wise and bold selection for Nokia though it is not proved in the market yet. Hope WP8 will be a game changer.. But i really don't know why they abandoned Meego and Symbian. They should keep those OSs as their secondary OS and WP as their primary.!!..I am very curious about Plan B??? What will be it?? Android?????
18. MeoCao (unregistered)
Going WP exclusive is huge blunder, Nokia was so lazy. Nokia used to have better technology and skill to make phones than any1 so I think they would have been successful with Android.
11. zothen (Posts: 14; Member since: 26 Mar 2012)
"They simply will not be profitable at least until Q1 next year, that is how long these things take. ".
I would guess that it will take them longer than that. In their case, it's not just operation, it's also strategy. They've put all their eggs in one basket with Windows phone and so far it's gone pretty poorly. Even if they are ultimately aiming for long term success at the expense of the short term, I don't think they would have thought their short-term would be so bad. A couple of years ago their aim was to remain the top phone maker. Now it seems their measure it just to stay afloat. I like the long-term game but you can't get their without some success in the short term.
It seems their only decision at this point is whether or not to go forward their backup plan and when. Yes, everyone will say making Android phones seems the obvious choice for a backup plan and what they should have been doing to start with because there seems to be little doubt that they would have been very successful with it. It's a no-brainer whether your Paul Otellini, CEO of Intel, a professional tech analyst, or a casual forum poster.
While I'm not a fan of Samsung phones, I like their strategy. Go with the obviously successful Android market in the short term. Continue to work on differentiation in that market. Make long term plans for a completely different OS which you have more control over (Tizen) and even make Windows Phone devices in case that market takes off. Whether it's hedging their bets or trying to win the most market share, its just good business sense. Their share of the phone market seems to show their strategy is working well.
23. Victor.H (Posts: 651; Member since: 27 May 2011)
Good points, zothen. Actually, that's one of the things that bugs me most about Nokia recently. It just gives the impression of being settled with losing its positions, no one is even speaking about bringing it back to where it was just over a year ago. I imagine how hugely demoralizing this is for staff, and maybe that's why nearly all of its top managers and talent has fled.
14. CannedKarma (Posts: 19; Member since: 22 Oct 2011)
Leaving out the global markets for a moment, Nokia needs to look at how its offerings are being made available in the US. They had a massive blitz on AT&T and one relatively entry level handset on the 4th largest carrier in the country. That leaves two out of the biggest 3 players with no recent WP handset, and certainly no good choices to speak of. Until Verizon and Sprint get new, competitive phones from Nokia, they'll be doomed to continue the downward spiral they're already seeing here. As a Verizon customer (and retail worker) I can definitely say that a $99 Lumia 900 on Big Red's network would be huge. The number one reason people will go with an iPhone on Verizon is the perceived ease of use over Android, and WP7 is just as simple as iOS in most respects.
Americans on other carriers want your phones Nokia. You want more market share, and more profit. Do whatever you have to to make sure you aren't ignoring the overwhelming majority of mobile users in the US.
24. Victor.H (Posts: 651; Member since: 27 May 2011)
Absolutely. Actually, it seems that it's still a bit of a mystery why Verizon didn't get the Lumia 900. Maybe Nokia wanted to play the exclusive game with AT&T, but that doesn't make much sense. The first two models, the Lumia 710 and 800, didn't have LTE so that's one possible explanation.
It'd be interesting if someone else could join in with thoughts on this - I for once don't have a clear explanation of why there are no Lumias on Big Red.
My most likely guess is that Verizon knew something about the no upgrade path thing with current Windows Phone devices and decided to avoid the bad press and just jump on the ship when Windows Phone 8 arrives.
34. Aeires (unregistered)
How much money would Verizon make on a Lumia compared to a Razr Maxx or iPhone? Ultimately that's the question. Both sell extremely well on Verizon, if the revenue on a Lumia is minimal, why upset the sales on Android and iOS devices by bringing it on board.
Follow the money and you'll likely find the answer.
40. CannedKarma (Posts: 19; Member since: 22 Oct 2011)
I don't believe Verizon makes any money on sales from the iPhone; Apple does, the carriers do not. This is why Verizon has such a big push inside its stores for reps to sell Android phones instead of iPhones. The reason Verizon carries iPhones is due to the sheer number of demand for them, not the idea of a profit from their sales.
Victor, it's been confirmed that Verizon was at one testing an LTE enabled Lumia 800. The real question is why that never was brought to stores. Verizon's PR has gone on record stating that it looks forward to WP as a competitive third platform, but it will only happen with LTE onboard. Given that this is a requirement for all smartphones on its network going forward, it would be very interesting to get a behind the scenes viewpoint for why Nokia devices won't be arriving on Verizon until this fall/holiday season.
22. NateAdam8 (Posts: 388; Member since: 17 Feb 2012)
Nokia is just going to become a part of Microsoft and fade away cause all the better part of Nokia has been cut off and thrown away by the company and only if they'd stuck to developing there own OS as a back they might have been able to save themselves from going under.
26. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Victor can you believe it, I whole heartedly agree with you, especially about "keep moving." Its gonna hurt them even further at this point if they remain frozen until wp8. They need to do something with the lumia 900 and 800. Like present them to more carriers and markets willing to take them. Bring new updates Asap. Tease or inject rumors of upcoming WP8 phones to keep interest. Apple is good at that. Respectable of of you for a neutral/positive article article.
27. Bluesky02 (Posts: 1439; Member since: 05 Dec 2011)
What Nokia need
- Smartphone that can compete with SG3 ( In features & Hardwares)
- Smartphone that can compete with mid-range Android devices
- Smartphone that can compete with low-range Android devices
- And Windows Phone that can compete with features phones
- Better Marketing (Microsoft is already doing that)
- Gain US Carriers trusts and commitment in selling Nokia Phones
- More features like Pureview Technology
- Shut Elop mouth for being too honest
- Price Unlock Windows Phone device reasonably so that consumer can save and afford to purchase
- Promote Windows Phone 8 key features heavily
- And all that PA Mentions of course
30. muhsen (Posts: 280; Member since: 07 Jun 2012)
i don't think nokia is really in such very bad situation. they r not in a good one but they r not in that over exaggerated bad situation mentioned by the author.lumia phones hit north of what analysts expected and s40 phones r rising as well.the only element that's losing in nokia ecosystem is symbian.
another thing is that s40 asha full touch is taking off in q3 which may do some help in q3 so i think after q3 things will begin flourish. wp8 supports all the things that can lead to a very powerful competing handset and nokia won't miss this chance and let's not forget that nokia tried to push the limit in symbian(which doesn't support what wp8 support) with the 808.
all nokia has to do is to invest in wp8 where it can show its prowess
33. MartyK (Posts: 777; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
They way the market is shaping up with IOS and Android OS improve every release, there is no way Nokia will make it back.
RIM and Nokia are two dead company walking.
I know a lot of people loves a good comeback story but this is not going to happen; it's a done deal.
Nokia miss the boat (Android).
56. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
Android is not everything see out of Box you will see another world
37. gwuhua1984 (Posts: 1237; Member since: 06 Mar 2012)
Like Nokia's previous CEO says... Android...
39. lubba (Posts: 1313; Member since: 17 Jan 2011)
Too late for that. More money lost if they went to Android now. Can't afford that. Besides no guarantee. Though could keep investing in meego.
42. Mube1 (Posts: 153; Member since: 22 Sep 2011)
Y u asking this question?answer is so simple every user wants hd screen,bigger screen atleast 4.3 to 4.5 inch,powerful battery,a powerful processer,gameloft's games,handy apps,and most important os,all these features are missing in nokia except a camera and lumia's design which is very impressive(uni polycarbonate body)mr elop:@:@u need to work in these fields than nokia will rock again,u know what user wants up to date features like android have:-)
64. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
why you still dont know yet these were all hardware restrictions by MS which is delt with in wp8 so stop crying for HD HD HD HD screens .... these are in now move on to something people dont know........
43. jove39 (Posts: 1819; Member since: 18 Oct 2011)
Follow Samsung's lead and adopt Android...may be as a step child; initially. Nokia need Android to revive sales!
44. PaulNotFromSweden (Posts: 55; Member since: 16 Sep 2011)
Unfortunately, Mr. Elop is a walking, talking example of how to dismantle a successful business. I'm sure Harvard Business Review will have a case study devoted to this, just like the New Coke and other fiascos.
I hope it isn't too late for them, but when you start slashing R&D and laying off boat-loads of employees, the future doesn't get any brighter. So what can they do:
1. Hitching their star to one struggling OS will kill them. WP may eventually be the end-all, be-all of OS's, but Nokia may not survive long enough to see that happen. They have to embrace Symbian and Android. Yes, the US may not have been Symbian heaven, but the rest of the world is in love with Nokia Symbian phones.
2. The financial markets, consumers and employees have lost confidence in Mr. Elop. It's a deadly hat trick. He must go.
3. Manufacturing doesn't necessarily have to return from Asia, but Nokia has always been known for quality, so they must ensure that isn't compromised.
Microsoft may have to infuse Nokia with buckets of cash to keep them afloat long enough to be saved, but I think the writing is on the wall for the demise of a once great company. I've owned several Nokia phones, and except for one with an insanely sharp metal edge, the design and build quality were top drawer. It's very sad to see how far and how fast the mighty have fallen.
49. Edmund (Posts: 656; Member since: 13 Jul 2012)
WP is the right strategy at this point in time and that's all there is to it. Nokia owns this little operation called Navteq which google doesn't like. Why? Because it's bigger and better than their own mapping service.
What Nokia needs to do is play on its strengths : Navigation and telecommunication; which is precisely what they're doing in my opinion
65. haseebzahid (Posts: 1853; Member since: 22 Feb 2012)
well google seems in trouble after WP8 was announced especially in tablet they will soon give up all hopes moblies is what android is good with not tablets byt if wp8 is the right card google got a competetor
52. AeroPrime (Posts: 175; Member since: 21 Feb 2011)
I would say we forget how experience they are in making good quality phones. What happen to Nokia is mismanagement and lack of good marketing strategy and for the current situation they are Finnish company which they do not based in America. Most of the time their target was for the European market and not the American Markets. Stephen Elop is a nice guy but he is not a good CEO. To me he is a trademark of disaster.I would say they need a new CEO. Ditching Symbian and MeeGo is not best thing to do actually. Nokia should keep these OS in running cause they might be possibilities and there's future in it. They should keep Symbian and MeeGO while developing windows phone and see how things goes from there. However they should experiment phones running on android since they have good R&D partnership why not just give it a trial. Why do u need to eradicate an OS like Symbian and MeeGo drastically. I'm asking Elop what is his agenda? Dont blame the ecosystem of your OS ...you should improve it and continue to improve your marketing strategy..get someone like me if you don't have the ideas. It shows how incapable of Elop being a CEO. Now they are depending too highly on WP8 to turn the tides, And if WP8 fails...what is their contingency plan? They want to start back MeeGo or Android all over... probably is good idea but should they did it before even going to WP.
53. 7thspaceman (Posts: 1524; Member since: 14 Feb 2011)
I am a Nokia Fan for Nokia to get out of trouble 2 things have to happen 1=Microsoft
publicly announces to support Nokia with billions of dollars to keep it afloat. 2= Nokia
starts selling Windows Phone "8" smart phones and a Windows "8" Tablet Computer
in late September beating every body to the market place with Windows "8" devices.
Nokia needs this to happen because they are in need of Money now and must start selling Nokia products to get it.
54. Mfa901 (Posts: 250; Member since: 14 Jul 2012)
Nokia should stop making phones for few years and with its full power and experiance try to improve symbain and nokia ovi store.
most ppl here saying here that nokia should adopt android OS but friends its not that easy......
its very risky to use android in nokia style.
and also if nokia will start using than how we will fight with our friends in the topic of android and symbain.
55. Loubielou (Posts: 501; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
Nokia an Mr Elop are not working well an how they chose him as chairman is just truelly amazing to people now,but Nokia must have thought about getting more investment in Mr Elop an Microsoft,but then How did Nokia allow Mr Elop to announce to the Public on Febuary 11Th that "Symbian Is Dead" even though they did not know thats Windows would be succesful,an since that comment Nokia as been on a Downward trend,Mr Elop did not seem to think what people would be missing with Windows after using there Symbian phones,No memory cards,No Bluetooth Sending an Recieving an then having to Zune after Nokia Suite had been used for ages,So people then Switched to Android because All these Functions are available on Android phones,Mr Elop then stopped the Nokia N9 an Meego being sold Globally because he was so scared of this phone being more Popular than the Lumias,but the N9 could have been a popular phone an left Nokia with a Back-Up for Windows,now with Lumias not being allowed to Windows 8,it is just showing how Microsoft only chose Nokia just to try to get there name portfolio better,but not now with Windows 8,Just look an the time an money Nokia put in creating the Pureview 808 an now no U.k mobile operator with offer this phone out in Contract because of Mr Elop Announcment,We Want Elop Out
58. tanjunse (Posts: 5; Member since: 21 Jul 2012)
I agree. My last phone was E72. Hung on to it to the very end. I didn't buy Iphone 3GS, 4, 4S or android. Eventually the frequent E72 freezes during websurfing or checking email requiring hard reboot eventually drove me nuts last month and I ditched NOKIA. bye bye NOKIA. good riddance to bad rubbish. My next phone: Samsung Galaxy S3.
Stephen Elop should be sacked for killing Symbian. I would have kept using E72 if he ensured the Symbian bugs were still dealt with and make it easy for app developers to translate android/ios apps to symbian (eg some kind of translation tools) so that we have similar Symbian apps as android/ios apps. I would have bought nokia, if they had embraced android. After all, HTC/Samsung/Nokia on Android, the only difference between them is how well they actually implemented their phones to fulfil customers' needs. Don't tell me Nokia doesn't know their customers after being a market leader for so long?
Right, they don't. Stephen Elop only knows how to collect his bonus. F**K him.