Verizon will give its customers time to plan before eliminating grandfathered unlimited data plans
0. phoneArena 17 May 2012, 16:03 posted on
After worrying many of its large customer base yesterday with talk that grandfathered unlimited data users will no longer be able to have all the data they can eat, Big REed says that it will give its customers time to plan before forcing them to make a decision
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51. MartyK (Posts: 733; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
Oh, I believe you, I have no doubt they did this, and they have/are paying for this poor decision right now ( #3 carrier and barely holding on),
I was (still are) a customer with Sprint during those time, so I understand exactly what you are saying; however,back in those days there was no Verizon nor AT&T trying to own the market so the many carries around where small compare to Sprint.
Trust, if Sprint was doing well against Verizon and AT&T, they would try to pull the same crap( remove unlimited--pay-fee..) as AT&T and Verizon is doing; but they can't afford to lose customers this is why the will take a hit to their bottom line
61. hepresearch (unregistered)
I agree that Sprint would probably not do something like what they did back in 2007 again in this day and age. Verizon and AT&T, though... well, who knows? I am not sure how numerous their grandfathered unlimited customers are, but if they are a small enough percentage of their total customer base, and they throw a fit when Verizon pulls the unlimited out from under them but don't leave... well, why wouldn't either AT&T or Verizon pull a Sprint-Nextel maneouver in late 2012? They both now have over 100 million customers each... if the number of staunch complainers is below 300,000 to 500,000, then watch out...
47. tedkord (Posts: 8325; Member since: 17 Jun 2009)
I've already made my plan. If Verizon takes away my unlimited data, which they insisted I had to have when I got my first smartphone, I will take away my business.
Seriously, give us LTE, which finally gives some ability to download with speed on Verizon's network, then limit how much we can have. What's the use of LTE if I can only use it one week per month before I run out of overhead?
50. hepresearch (unregistered)
And go where? Only Sprint is unlimited right now, but honestly how long can they hold on to that with their own LTE on the way and the iPhone now available on their network (and the next one will probably have LTE as well, I would imagine)? Sprint will be a huge mess very soon if they don't eventually (... but rather soon...) do what the others have already done. This is what happens when wireless networks are built out without the backing needed on the physical infrastructure end... it's AT&T's HSDPA backhaul problem from 2010 all over again, but with more and faster data, and hence more potential service outages, bottle-necks, and blunders at stake...
53. MartyK (Posts: 733; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
I'm not challenge you, but the question I have is this;
Can you swear that their LTE can't hold up to unlimited plans of their customer?, Or are we just repeating what those carrier are saying?, because lately all the CEO of the two big carrier have being crying about is how unlimited data was a mistake back in those days, not one of them mention Backhaul/bottleneck problem ; to me they are playing games just like Comcast( capping home internet) is doing now to their customer, FLEECING them.
We been around a while, I recall when AOL was king and charge $40 for 250 hours of internet, so I guess we technology haven't gotten past this yet!.
57. hepresearch (unregistered)
Thanks for the question Marty. I can appreciate your situation.
Sprint has an interesting problem of their own now... with iDEN sitting on a small chunk of ESMR (800 MHz) bandwidth, which they are trying to reallocate to CDMA, a failed agreement with LightSquared for TD-LTE in the L-Band (1550 MHz) which has now fallen through, and an aging but burdensome contract with ClearWire for WiMAX in the 2500 MHz band which they have asked to be changed to TD-LTE, but it hasn't been (Sprint will have more PCS-Band 1900 MHz LTE than ClearWire's WiMAX before ClearWire can ever afford to put TD-LTE on its 2500 MHz bandwidth) and really can't be until ClearWire gets some money (Sprint hasn't been able to produce enough cash for them yet), Sprint is in quite a pickle of their own because of their previous poor choices of acquisition targets and network partners. It is a huge mess, and although they have most of the bandwidth needed to handle the current customer base (which has shrunk considerably from the 60 million they used to have), they are now playing an extreme game of musical-spectrum... they are trying to move CDMA off of the 1900 MHz band and into the 800 MHz band, which is admittedly less-spacious than their PCS holdings, and they are then going to build out their own LTE on 1900 MHz spectrum as CDMA is cleared from it, all while waiting for Clear to start replacing WiMAX with TD-LTE in the 2500 MHz band at some time (who knows when...) in the not-so-short-term future. In other words, when it came to acquisitions (such as Nextel) and partners (such as LightSquared and ClearWire), as well as first-choice of 4G technology to invest in (namely WiMAX instead of LTE), Sprint pretty clearly "zigged" when they should have "zagged"...
next section below...
58. hepresearch (unregistered)
As bad as this is, T-Mobile is in even more dire straits, but is responding with the same behavior... a game of musical-spectrum. T-Mobile is shifting AWS 3G to their 1900 MHz holdings, which is going to be a MAJOR problem in places where they have to simultaneously shut down 1900 MHz GSM service to make room for it. In place of the 3G UMTS/HSPA on the 1700 MHz AWS Band, T-Mobile is going to try to launch an LTE network, but their AWS licenses are rather limited geographically. Without the hemorrhaged AT&T money and additional AWS spectrum gained from the failed merger attempt last year, I doubt T-Mobile would have been able to start this shell-game with their spectrum. It will be more painful than the one Sprint is playing, and T-Mobile will have a very tough time which could be their end if they aren't very careful.
AT&T is doing a little bit of their own spectrum games, but without the urgency that Sprint and T-Mobile must face theirs with. Verizon and AT&T really are the big players now, as they seem to have made a lot more right choices over the last five years. They still both suffer from bandwidth shortages because the speed at which data travels on LTE is nearly 100 times what it was on EDGE or 1xRTT, and the number of data subscribers has ballooned since then. It is almost as if they never thought about someone being able to download a gigabyte of data in the time it used to take to collect a small inbox of email... data was unlimited back then because the average data user never used more than 500 MB or 1 GB of data... and at 384 kbps, it wasn't too tough to handle either. All told, they are struggling to handle nearly 1000 to 2000 times the traffic they used to, and the trend is only rising faster... the wireless air interface might be able to manage that, but the physical networking infrastructure (cable, fiber lines, wired connections, ethernet, etc...) cannot, and that is why all this talk of data caps and shared plans is happening right now.
I hope that gives you a reasonable answer to your question...
64. MartyK (Posts: 733; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
It does, thank you very much!, but anyway possible Sprint and T mobile can share the burden of LTE radio only (think Qualcomm has this radio already)? while keeping their respected CDMA / GSM
66. hepresearch (unregistered)
Unfortunately, Sprint and T-Mobile will not have compatible LTE networks because they are operating in different spectrum from each other... T-Mo's is planned to launch in the 1700 MHz AWS spectrum, while Sprint's is initially launching in the 1900 MHz PCS spectrum, and Clear (if they ever get their act together) plans on launching TD-LTE (actually a slightly different technology, and not compatible with standard LTE in any band) in the 2500 MHz band for Sprint. Furthermore, while Sprint may retain limited CDMA service on 800 MHz, T-Mobile really cannot retain GSM service anywhere in their current reallocation plan once it is fully implemented.
Another thought... AT&T did very well to get the iPhone exclusively from 2007 to 2010, and Verizon did well to snag it as soon as that exclusivity went away in early 2011 with the iPhone 4. Sprint waited until later in 2011 to pick it up, after the iPhone 4S model was released, but they paid a steep price... some $15 billion as I recall... to even have the privilege of offering it on their network (Apple's business model is insanely profitable for Apple, and difficult to endure for carriers). They may have been late, but late is better than never at all when it comes to the one device that seems to be a network-maker or breaker, and this is well-illustrated with T-Mobile. They did not buy into the iPhone when either Verizon or Sprint did, and now they do not have the cash on hand to do so even if they wanted to. They scored about, oh, $5 billion(?) from the failed merger attempt with AT&T, but if Sprint had to pay $15 billion just for the privilege because Apple judged their network to be less deserving than either AT&T or Verizon, then how in the world will T-Mobile ever be able to raise the cash to pay Apple anything even close to what they can ask? I am no iPhone fan, but the fact is that T-Mobile has lost plenty of customers in the past over being unable to offer a 3G-network-compatible iPhone with an AWS radio, and now T-Mo realistically has little choice but to muddle along without one until they have enough 1900 MHz 3G to support the AT&T version (with 3G on 850 and 1900 MHz) unlocked on their own network (may retain some customers, but little extra revenue, if any, from that stunt). If the next iPhone has LTE, then T-Mo will be the last major network to be able to support its 4G LTE capabilities. They may then support other iPhones, but they still will not be able to sell the iPhone themselves, and this will be a big bruise on their business for a while if they even survive long enough to out-live the iPhone's wild (though somewhat unjustified... according to me...) popularity.
48. Das70 (Posts: 124; Member since: 05 Jan 2011)
I am glad I never got addicted to smartphones. I pay less for basic cable and internet service for my home($61 a month) than you guys do your smartphone bill. In fact add my cell phone bill of $50 and I still most likely pay less.
Time to either ditch these ridiculous data plans fellas or just deal with it. No amount of complaining is gonna change it. You can always move over to the prepaids for awhile. Yeah the service is slower but its dooable and affordable. Once prepaid gets expensive its dumbphone all the way.
The big two knows it has many of you in their back pockets. They will charge the living daylights out of you for little data. I dont see why so many of you are getting so addicted. App games suck for the most part and its not that great viewing the internet or movies on such a small device. Just go back to home internet and computer or console games. Wayyy cheaper and more fun IMO. JUST DO IT GUYS. GET OVER IT. GET BACK TO THE REAL WORLD. DONT LET THESE PHONE CARRIERS RIP YOU OFF.
54. hepresearch (unregistered)
Well, I'll have an old dumbphone to sell in that day. Already broke my addiction to smart devices... bankruptcy and sheriff's-sales have a way of doing that to a person.
How much am I bid for this well-used broken-in Sony Ericsson Z300a? Ten dollars, anyone... ten dollar ten dollar ten dollar am I bid ten dollar? Now ten... fifteen fifteen fifteen dollar fifteen dollar am I bid fifteen? Fifteen anyone? Fifteen fifteen fifteen dollar... fifteen dollars... the Nokia ringtone is an irreverent bonus... fifteen anyone? Please give your tired Motorola i1000 a break... fifteen dollars anyone? Fifteen dollars... I'm currently bid ten... going once... going twice...
56. cncrim (Posts: 693; Member since: 15 Aug 2011)
all the crazy policy these carrier has or will have they forget one thing is customer still in control once they past the line. guess what my prediction is that soon people will move PREPAID THAT IS RIGHT PREPAID. All prepaid company like MetroPC and Cricket will benifite from from these policy..........
60. MartyK (Posts: 733; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
All well that end well for my Verizon's friends :)
62. lisam0601 (Posts: 1; Member since: 17 May 2012)
Ok so I read another article stating if you have multiple phones on a plan such as business plans or family plans it will benefit you... I am on a family plan but the only one with a smart phone and I was grandfathered into the $30 unlimited. I know that it doesn't matter if I'm grandfathered in or not but will it still benefit me since I'm on a family plan? And will they eventually be making it to where you can only buy a smart phone?
63. pay4whatyouget (Posts: 1; Member since: 17 May 2012)
Verizon has the best coverage and 4g network of Any cell phone carrier! Go ahead and go to sprint and pay for a slower network. The only reason they offer unlimited data is to sign up customers and make up for their crappy network. Verizon has to make up for the cost of the devices that keeps going up.maybe if some of you idiots had an knowledge you would understand! Most people don't use more then 2 gigs on their phone and if you do your abusing it and have no life !
67. Jodabro (Posts: 35; Member since: 01 Dec 2011)
I am not a Verizon customer, but to my understanding the only way they can implement this change is when there customers sign a new contract to upgrade their device. So if this is correct, couldn't a person/customer pay full price or buy a phone from somewhere else(besides verizon) and not sign a new contract. Therefore keeping their existing contract of unlimited data in place.???
85. hepresearch (unregistered)
C'mon... AT&T signed that mobile consumers' bill-of-rights back in the day, and what good did that do? They violated the terms of it sooooo many times by making changes without the consent of customers, not allowing them to leave their existing contracts in dissent (as was specifically laid out as a "right" in that so-called "mobile consumers' bill-of-rights"), and even without giving them proper notice in many cases. These carriers do whatever the heck they want as long as they think most of us are willing to stick around, and if you dissent enough and make a lot of noise, they kick you out and cut you loose. They rely on people not knowing what these companies have already agreed to, and then playing-dumb if we ever find out. There really isn't a way to hold them to it anymore... if Congress tried to, then conservatives everywhere would be up in arms over the alleged "over-regulation". There isn't really any way to escape it the other way, either... the more Congress "regulates" them, the bigger the big guys get (cuz they have the money to lobby and bribe), and the smaller carriers, and new start-up attempts, get squashed and can't afford to do business... and liberals everywhere start reacting to their worst corporatist nightmares when Verizon and AT&T are all that's left.
It reminds me of my favorite line from "Wargames"... perhaps "the only way to win is to not play the game."
68. DigitalMD (Posts: 226; Member since: 17 Feb 2010)
The promise of smart phones and tablets is over. Back to the days of SMS and voice. IPhone was just a flash in the pan..........
69. amazinghorse (Posts: 38; Member since: 14 Dec 2009)
Silly nerd bloggers. Do you not see the forest from the trees? Let me liberate your minds. VZW for the first time has spectrum holdings in Alaska...But only 700 MHZ. Does anyone recall seeing articles that VZW was testing voLTE on the LG Revolution last year? Still not picking up what I am throwing down? How about these apples....Your voice and text plan are soon to become relics. Casualties of LTE. You will have one plan. A data plan. Your minutes will come out of it. Your text will come out of it. Your interwebs will come out of it. This transition is happening at warp speed. I am thinking 2015 at the latest. No more feature phones. No more "phones" period. Just personal data devices that do your bidding through the magic of the internets. VZW is putting on the pain now but will be the darling of the civilized world once they have transformed themselves from a "phone" company into a "Rule the Air" company. Mwa, ha, ha. Mortal fools. Do you think you can subvert the evil plans of Mother Verizon? Now you die.
87. hepresearch (unregistered)
Hahahaha!!! I can see it now...
Episode 1... or 2? Really not sure yet...
Our intrepid heroes Obi-wan, Anakin, and Jar-jar, have again escaped the AT&T Federation blockade of T-Naboo, and are enroute to the Verizon Republic to plead for assistance, when they learn of the sudden and untimely death of their ally Senator Palpatine. With this fly in the ointment, they must change their plans, and head for Tatooine, the homeworld owned by Sprint the Hut, to beg for the Hut's assistance...
A sampling of scenes...
Jar-jar: Dissa space trip is wong and boring, imma gonna use da internets on mee fone...
Anakin: Jar-jar, what is that thing you have?
Jar-jar: Meesa gots dis Nokia N8. It a fantastic!
Anakin: Well, that's a terrible shame that you are stuck with a burning platform like Symbian...
Jar-jar: Symbian nosa burnin' pwatform! Eesa good one! Meesa da biggest fone maker in da wepubwic for wong time!
Obi-wan: Jar-jar, Anakin has a point. I mean, you could be running Android on your devices, like this Samsung Galaxy Nexus I have...
Jar-jar: Wassa you want?
Anakin: (gestures) ... Symbian IS a burning platform...
Jar-jar: ... Meesa tink Symbian is da burnin' pwatform.
Anakin: (shows Jar-jar his Samsung Focus, and then gestures) ... These ARE the Live Tiles you're looking for...
Jar-jar: ... Meesa tink meesa like dose Wive Tiles!
Obi-wan: Anakin... please don't tell me you just...
Anakin: Yep, just did. It's for his own good, you know...
(Darth Maul turns on BlackBerry lightsaber, runs toward Obi-wan)
(Obi-wan turns on Android lightsaber, blocks Darth Maul's first strike)
Ghost of Qui-gon: Obi-wan! Use the force, Obi-wan! Let go of your feelings!
Obi-wan: He's too powerful, Qui-gon! How will I defeat him?
Ghost of Qui-gon: Remember, Obi-wan... remember he is limited to a physical open-face QWERTY keyboard... his footwork will show it!
(Darth Maul dances around Obi-wan, looking for an opportunity to strike again)
Obi-wan: Darth Maul, why are you so unsteady on your legs? You are stumbling around like a small child, or are you just drunk?
(Darth Maul looks at his legs, then turns and runs away and promptly falls apart into two halves)
Darth Maul upper-half: I almost had him! I told you not to give me away!!!
Darth Maul lower-half: But you said I should try to please the "shareholders" more!!
88. hepresearch (unregistered)
(an iPad on the table lights its screen, and Senator Palpatine materializes in the room)
Obi-wan: NO!!! It was YOU the whole time? We thought you were dead...
Senator Palpatine: Oh, c'mon! They said Elvis was dead, too... puleeeeease... besides, my iPhone made me really popular over there with Elvis, and JFK, and the crew of the Challenger...
Anakin: Well, Senator, Obi-wan has trained me well. I'm a REAL Jedi now, and we will defeat you, Windows Phone and Android together!
(Obi-wan and Anakin turn on their Android and Windows Phone lightsabers)
Senator Palpatine: (chuckling) Oh... not so fast now. You see, Anakin, there is something I've been meaning to tell you... Anakin, I am your father. And I also disguised myself as Qui-gon for a while, too, so I guess that makes me your father, too, Obi-wan.
(Obi-wan gasps loudly)
Anakin: Wow... well, the "dark side" always did seem kinda cool... Long live the new Verizon Empire, Daddy!
Jar-jar: Durrrrr!!! Meesa wun away!
Cast of characters...
Senator Palpatine / ghost of Qui-gon - played by Lowell McAdam, channeling Steve Jobs
Sprint the Hut - played by Dan Hesse
The Viceroy - played by Ralph de la Vega
Queen Amidala - played by Philipp Humm
Obi-wan - played by Andy Rubin
Anakin - played by Steve Ballmer
Jar-jar - played by Steven Elop
Darth Maul upper and lower halves - played by Jim Ballsillie and Mike Lazardis
71. sotl777 (Posts: 4; Member since: 03 Mar 2012)
If I decide not to upgrade from my droid bionic, then I should still be able to keep my unlimited data plan. I notice it said when you upgrade you will be forced to change your plan. I will just keep my bionic forever then.
72. amazinghorse (Posts: 38; Member since: 14 Dec 2009)
Why would you do that to yourself? Don't you know that BB 10 AND Apollo are soon to be upon us? And on the LTE? THE LTE????? Bionic. Huh. What happens when you can't get batteries anymore or more likely Motorola decides to give you the ol' Ice Cream Sandwich? I can't take the suspense!!!!
74. Sniggly (Posts: 7297; Member since: 05 Dec 2009)
Are you drunk? You're being awfully melodramatic.
76. amazinghorse (Posts: 38; Member since: 14 Dec 2009)
No. I get high on life and drunk on the blood of the unbelievers. How are you doing, friend?
83. sotl777 (Posts: 4; Member since: 03 Mar 2012)
I can get more batteries if I ever need them.Not worried about ics, I'm getting speeds to 30mbs on this device and am happy with it.
75. Forsaken77 (Posts: 552; Member since: 09 Jun 2011)
So people that already have a newer LTE device, like the Nexus, shouldn't upgrade. When your contract expires just stay on without upgrading. Imo, unlimited data is more of a commodity than a new phone if you're a heavy user. Even if you wanna upgrade, wait a few months after the phone comes out, then buy it on ebay for a used price. As long as you don't upgrade you should be safe.
78. yynot (Posts: 1; Member since: 18 May 2012)
So verizon when are you going to give your customers free mobile to mobile? Pretty standard among the other two carriers right now. Also this pickens guy is the MOST annoying fanboy I have ever seen! Why is verizon the most expensive out of all of the big three and gives you the least amount for it? Also international coverage and using most of there devices internationally is a JOKE!
79. Jyakotu (Posts: 839; Member since: 12 Dec 2008)
The problem is that carriers didn't plan ahead for the future. Remember, when smartphones were just for "business" users, all carriers required you to purchase a data plan with it, most of the time, it was unlimited. Then low and behold, the iPhone came and the smartphone became more casual. Once the iPhone, and later, Android, gained popularity and steam, carriers complained that people were abusing the data. Still, I remember plenty of times reading where customers didn't want to purchase a data plan with their smartphones, but again, it was required by the carrier. Now, carriers are capping and throttling data for smartphones.
I'm with Sprint, but honestly, their 3G is so slow, I can't imagine how anyone uses over 2GB, heck even 1GB, of data with their spotty 3G. Sprint better keep that unlimited data if it wants to stay afloat, but I'm experimenting with just using Sprint's 3G, no Wi-Fi like I normally do, and see how much data I really use. Because if I find out I rarely use 2 or more 3G, then I'd easily switch to AT&T for three reasons: LTE, better phone selection, and better data speeds.
84. sotl777 (Posts: 4; Member since: 03 Mar 2012)
Just talked with verizon, if I pay full price for my phone in future, I will never lose my unlimited data plan. So I will just pay full price and keep what I have.
93. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)
You'd still have to sign a new contract eventually.
94. remixfa (Posts: 14255; Member since: 19 Dec 2008)
no, you wouldnt. As long as you never make a single change to the account or ever use the upgrade discount, they wont touch it. But if he ever makes a change to his account at all, they are going to rip that plan out from under him.
95. parkwaydr (Posts: 572; Member since: 07 Sep 2011)
Contracts last two years, so even if you never upgraded your phone and just bought it out right, you'd still eventually have to sign a new contract, so theoretically Verizon could still force you off of unlimited, by claiming that plan no longer exists.
I'm positive they have found loopholes and ways to force everyone off, even if its means giving up a few etfs along the way.
96. hepresearch (unregistered)
That's nothing new... I've seen AT&T find loopholes in order to justify changing the terms of plans even while in-contract... even when that activity was condemned by the world mobile consumer rights advocating organization that AT&T joined by signing an agreement to NOT do such things. I am unaware that either Verizon or Sprint are bound by such agreements, and even if they had signed such a thing, they could easily get away with acting like AT&T did.
I am not advocating that carriers need to sign on to world mobile consumer advocacy because I am not a current fan of one-world governance, nor do I believe that carriers will actually hold themselves to such agreements voluntarily anyway... I am just pointing out that the hipocrisy is rampant, and that none of the carriers can really be trusted. If you want a mobile phone of any kind, be prepared to be treated like a cash-cow, one way or another, no matter who you go with!
89. mr9154 (Posts: 5; Member since: 18 May 2012)
with all the lte outages they have and to make matters worst in NYC coverage is spotty and weak i have 5 lines and i feel like its not worth what im paying for and the verizon version of cell phones all suck from the iphone 4 no talk & surh capability to nexus and its connectivity issues.
91. vincent95 (Posts: 17; Member since: 19 May 2012)
That's just ridiculous! I'm with VZW, and I have the $30 Unlimited Data plan. Here I come, Sprint, when I upgrade, that's who I'm going with. They still have 4G LTE but the prices are much better ($99.99 for a truly unlimited plan, of which Verizon does not offer).
98. cr8tive007 (Posts: 53; Member since: 30 Mar 2011)
That's it.... These people really suck eggs... I mean it's really bad. I have been a customer since they became a wireless carrier. It seems almost every other month my bill increases by a dollar or two for some reason and now this. It is ridiculous and unfair. I have the unlimited and looks like I am just going to go to another carrier or even pre - paid. Their phones are getting better by the day. It's just typical corporate bullsh*t. If they do this they should remove the madatory requirement to have internet service on a smart phone. I could easily survive on wi-fi...
99. hepresearch (unregistered)
I have seen this kind of behavior before... oh yeah! It's like Verizon and the other carriers act like drug dealers, and treat their customers like drug addicts...