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Verizon versus AT&T: who has the better shared data plans?

0. phoneArena 19 Jul 2012, 04:45 posted on

The two biggest carriers in the United States, Verizon and AT&T, have now started offering shared data plans so you don’t have to pay a separate bill…

This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 10:53

42. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


uhhh...yeah, it IS an opinion. unliess you are the CEO of one of these companies, it is.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 11:09

44. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


The fact that the Verizon CEO said this makes it a fact not an opinion....are you really that dumb.
I posted links with the quote and one link has the investors conference call posted with the time into the call that the statement was made wtf pull your head out of your butt! see quote below

"Bad news from Verizon today. It appears the company plans to push users who are grandfathered into the unlimited data plans out and onto the tiered data plans. Very bad news for us lucky unlimited data users. Below is a quote from Verizon’s Fran Shammo.
“Phil Cusick – JPMorgan Chase – Analyst
How do you drive customers over to this new model? Is there a willingness to take a little bit of near-term pain on revenue in exchange for the
higher device number that is going to drive growth long term?
Fran Shammo – Verizon Communications Inc. – EVP & CFO
Well, the way we have designed this and of course, it is paper, not actual and we will see how this comes out, but the way we have designed this
is we really shouldn’t see a short-term decline. And really the theory behind this is LTE is our anchor point for data share. So as you come through
an upgrade cycle and you upgrade in the future, you will have to go onto the data share plan. And moving away from, if you will, the unlimited
world and moving everybody into a tiered structure data share-type plan.
So when you think about our 3G base, a lot of our 3G base is unlimited. As they start to migrate into 4G, they will have to come off of unlimited
and go into the data share plan. And that is beneficial for us for many reasons, obviously. So as you pick what tier you want to be and we think that
there will be some price up in those tiers.”
Seems to me Verizon’s out to get even more money. Question is will they get away with it? Would you leave Verizon if booted off of your unlimited data plan? I know for sure I would do some price shopping at the very least. If you would like to read the full transcript of this investor conference head here."

I am not against companies making money, but to keep raising fees, and nickle and diming us is only based on greed to make the stock perform is all that I have been saying....My point and case is proven here and all the links that I have posted period

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 11:21

45. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


i never said it wasn't about profit. and I want you to be back out here WHEN Sprint wacks your unlimited data so you can eat some crow...

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 11:22

46. LobsterJZombie (Posts: 3; Member since: 20 Jul 2012)


I'm on Sprint too and I can tell you that our days of unlimited data are close to being over. The only reason Sprint is offering that is because that is all they can offer. There plans are cheap but their service is horrible for the most part. When VOIP & LTE-A come out expect all carriers to move to a tiered plan, including Sprint. For the sake of aurgument even if they don't adopt a tiered plan they will start throttling you if you are a high user.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 11:24

47. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


Hell I am in agreement here John about Sprint possibly changing the unlimited, and when they do I will be the 1st to pay full price for a phone to keep my unlimited.ROFL

You just suggested that Matt, and I were off base, and was posting opinion. You also said this was not being done for profit but for off setting heavy usage that is stressing the system. Those links suggest other wise now don't they. Seems like my posting of factual links to back my post changed your thinking a bit now huh.

Lobster you are posting an opinion, although you could be right in the future now it's just an opinion period

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 11:32

48. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


nope. the links don't suggest otherwise, because it still doesn't address the "can they really handle unlimited data, but won't" question. and I would appreciate it if you'd knock of the personal remarks. I haven't once called you out of your name, so give me and everyone else the same respect. the term Sheep implies that we have no brain power of our own, and easily led around.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 11:40

49. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


The fact that they are willing to let you "buy" 20-30 gigs a month suggest that they can handle unlimited data John ....wake up!

You can have higher data plan packages, but they want you to pay more money for them so that they can offer more money to investors to create value for their stock.

If there was a problem about stress they would offer the higher data plans now would they....logic and reasoning so far suggest it's all about profit....not the mention that they admitted this in a stock holders conference call.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 12:08

50. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


you assume way too much. most if not all of what you said is an assumption. i have an assumption too. the assumption is that they assume that most people will go over their data limits, but 20-30GB a month? yes there is a "penalty" for them but it's not too bad. one would have to be really dense to go over their data usage by 2-3GB and not know it, it's not like you can do that by checking facebook or reading an email. my common sense tells me that unlimited data usage for everyone, at the older prices, are impractical.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 12:31 1

51. georgiaboyz (Posts: 11; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


1. LTE is faster so the data is on and off of the networks quicker which keeps the strain to a minimum. Same reason users that have LTE devices with unlimited data get a larger amount of data usage before being throttled.

2. I don't know that I've ever seen how much walmart pays for a box of cereal to justify how much I pay retail for them. Or any other product by any other retailer for that matter.

3. You CAN!! thank iphones for price jumps in carriers services. The iphones are subsidized significantly more than any other phone by any other manufacturer on a way more consistent basis. Carriers go in the whole about $400-$500 for EVERY smartphone they sell. That's literally the only reason carriers ask you to sign contracts, so you can get the phones at a discounted price.

4. If a whole network is only supporting 13 people, than the strain on the networks wouldn't be significant and you could afford to offer unlimited talk/text/data for $45.

5. Even only jslf of Verizons customers were on their network @ 1 time, that would still be more then the total of Sprints customers all together.

6. Tell me one other thing that you only pay $30 a month for and get as much, literally unsupervized, unquestioned usage with.

7. If it was about $$$$$ and not about network strain, why wouldn't a carrier just man up and offer unlmited data for individual lines for about $100??? It would kill 2 birds with one stone...people that wanted it could have it and stop crying and carriers would still make their $$$$

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 12:39

52. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


There is no assumption in them selling 20gig data plans. No not many people will use or spring for them. When data was analyzed by Consumer Reports I think average data usage was 650mb a month. There were only a few users really pushing data limits on all carriers.
When Consumer reports, and other consumer agencies tried to get access to user data usage the carriers all tried to conceal this information I wonder why!

They never made reference to the point that heavy data traffic was the reason for raising fees now did they...no assumption here at all.

When it was put to Verizon about their stock not being able to remain prices above 40.00 a share they came up with tiered data to help realize this for investors, and stock holders thereby making their stock more attractive....no assumption here this is what Sharma said during share holder conference.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 13:02

53. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. just because the guy said it, you believe it? it's similar to politics, they let you see and hear what they WANT you to see and hear. it's very very possible that you are right on the money, but it's also very very possible that Unlimited data for everyone at $30.00/month would overload the system. even if only half of the 230 million verizon customers used 10GB a month, that would probably tax the existing system to the max. with tablets becoming more and more common, Data usage would spiral completely out of control. I know I would use mine as much as I possibly could, with no fear of overage fees??? hell yeah!

I'm not saying theyre not greedy I'm saying they have the right to be. if you were in their shoes you'd probably do it too.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 14:23

54. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


since you like to offer reading material, here's something that actually supports my opinion. whether it's true or not, you can decide.

http://gigaom.com/broadband/verizon-in-the-game-of-capacity-spectrum-trumps-technology/

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 14:51

55. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


The average user data consumed monthly is 450-600mb a month according to Nielsen, and Consumer Reports. That article doesn't tell the whole story either. Verizon is selling 700mhz LTE to buy AWS so that they can control the wireless airwaves like a a Comcast or a DirecTv.

They have enough 700mhz spectrum, but want to sell it so that THEY can dominate cable services on AWS wireless airwaves. Wake up John!

If they buy a lot of that AWS spectrum they will dominate mobile data, and that isn't good for you or for me, because they will be able to sell television, and cable services there by locking other wireless providers out of that spectrum if they start buying it all as they did 700mhz.

If Verizon were successful in buying AWS and hording it like they did 700mhz spectrum they will have a monopoly on that spectrum while also being able to sell cable services over it. That's the real reason they want that spectrum. If they lock it down early and sell off 700mhz spectrum they can dominate cable and wireless service. This is a win for cable companies, and only Verizon! Get on top of your information rather than to just post something with half truth and points.

I am not a sheep nor am I a person that takes what they read and see on television or the internet for granted as truth as you continually do! Nor do I post links without understanding what is is that I am posting like you did with that last link. Verizon selling 700mhz spectrum swapping for AWS spectrum is more about bolstering future sales from services offered by cable companies through them.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/nielsen-averag e-us-mobile-subscriber-uses-450-mb-month/2012-07-1 9

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CGcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.cnet.com%2F8301-13506_3-57382918-17%2Ft-mobile-asks-fcc-to-block-spectrum-sale-to-verizon%2F&ei=KbwJUOmCOqby0gGo8ZDIAw&usg=AFQjCNF-pWa-3EeRX0yLjujIDL_9xmURjQ&sig2=3g2MtJ3UmFYMTeBA5TvYIQ

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 15:15

56. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


oh!!! so when I post an article, it's full of "half" truths and doesn't tell the whole story. you are obviously the authority on all things, period. I'm done with this.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 15:22

57. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


Not at all John, that article posted only one aspect of what is really happening. Verizon really "is" trying to purchasing AWS spectrum, but it doesn't tell you that they are also selling their 700mhz spectrum that already they have to get it.

I am not debating the purchase, but I am debating why they are doing it with supporting representation. Others have allured to Verizon selling 700mhz spectrum in previous post on the 1st page.

They have enough 700mhz spectrum to maintain customer bandwidth, but AWS is enhanced spectrum that allows cable products to be sold over it. That article failed to mention that there by only telling half the story.

Don't be so damn foolish John. You are clever and intelligent enough to find that fact, but how about presenting all of the facts instead of posting half the facts. Now why don't you try to debate the fact that Verizon isn't selling 700mhz spectrum to achieve this AWS spectrum goal with factual data, and supporting data for evidence instead of opinion.

You are correct in the respect to being done, educate yourself about what's going on around you only then we can have a real debate rather than you posting half truths and opinions. It' s mostly about profit which you denied, and then miraculously after I post links supporting this you say that you never debated that.

In fact this debate still goes on because you are trying to prove me wrong with poor data support, and misinformed facts! When I point this out you try to misrepresent what I have said and skew the facts. You should have been a politician

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 17:16

58. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Bravo, Bravo. U really wiped the floor with me. I have no idea what I'm talking about, and you do.

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 17:27

59. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


No you have some aspects of what you are talking about correct John, but to make a cake you need more than flour and milk. You need all the ingredients for it to taste good, and rise properly. Gather all the facts to be well versed about a subject or you will not make the right choice involving a matter on that topic

Below is continued proof of what "I" have found through my personal investigation of the issue from past readings.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/12/3156096/verizon-aws-spectrum-deal-doj-cross-selling

posted on 20 Jul 2012, 18:03

60. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


The answer is simple unless you are a carrier fan boy or a carrier sheep. Tiered data brings in more revenue! See my previous post with supporting data before you make unsubstantiated opinionated rhetoric,

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 00:08

61. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


qwikstrike
I want you to find one place that I said, verbatim, that I said "this was not being done for profit". You're so full of yourself that it's you, not me that are twisting what I say. Of course its being done for profit!! why would I say something other than that? let me say it really slowly for you, once again. No matter WHAT the reason is for blowing up unlimited data, ultimately it's about lining their pockets with our money. Now, how do we combat that? A. get rid of your smartphone B. show some discipline and back off of the data usage. C. create your own wireless phone company. D. protest (throw a temper tantrum). i have no need to hunt down numerous links from articles to argue my point, because my point is MY opinion, based on simple common sense. like someone else stated, Walmart has no need to reveal to customers how much they paid for that box of cereal on the shelf, so am I a sheep for buying the cereal without first "investigating" that they could sell me that box for much less???? They have the cereal, and I have a choice as to whether I buy the cereal or not. what kind of fool would I look like, demanding that they divulge their cost and means of coming to that price on the shelf? I grow weary of this thread, as I have worked two jobs during our jousting today. it's obvious that you vehemently believe that the carriers are unecessarily gouging us for more money by removing unlimited data. I believe that of course, they want more money, but it's not just that. I love a good discussion, and you Have given me much to think about, but my opinion is still the same.

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 05:48

62. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


These quotes are yours copied word for word John! No breaks in sentences at all....word for word....bite me! After I started posting links you started verbally changing "your" position. I maintained this was all about profit, and your position was it was all about voulume through put, and I am not an engineer so that my post were only opinions....I have proven other wise with substantial facts backed by links to where I got my information! At least I see that you know your "ABC's"....lol

"31. johnriii posted on yesterday, 00:51 1
between Yourself and Marty K, you guys seem to be the only one privy to "inside information". whoooo...you heard the CEO of verizon say this to his investors. Unless you are an engineer in the wireless technological arena, FOR Verizon, yours input here is just like everyone else's, an opinion."

" I firmly believe that Unlimited Data, used by 230 million customers (verizons customer base) at a clip of about 6-8 GB per month would crash the system, eventually. that's just my opinion, but i bet it's closer to the truth than not."

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 06:22

63. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


When misinformed people like you post half truths about why things are being done the real truth be comes skewed......sounds like the media to me!

You said "! however, no matter what I say, how much I gripe, how obstinate I get, they still get to call the shots, no matter what the reason"

Not true if the masses all griped and changed to Sprint, or refused to pay they would get the message and repeal this act. Loss of profits scares them!

America used to protest things by boycotting or changing their ways when they were s**t on. Today they just gripe, and say what you said above "there's nothing that I can do but pay it".

Breyers Ice cream went from $2.99 a half gallon to $7.99 1.5 qts. I refuse to pay that period....more money for less product. I don't need ice cream to survive. I can also live with out General Mills products. You said it right before in a post earlier...don't give them your money....buy what you need, and don't just hand your hard earned money to corporations that nickle and dime you by charging you more and giving you less to "only" satisfy the stock holder.....you don't really get this or you would not be arguing with me and Martyk....MartyK gets it and you shit on him for pointing out the obvious....you can bite me you misinformed big mouth!

General Mills talked about raising prices to satisfy their stock holders when asked how they were able to do this in a recession when things are tight they said " we just found a way to increase pricing with no harm to our sales, and profits...."they stopped selling 18oz cereal and now sell 12oz while telling the consumer they dropped the price .25 cents.

They failed to mention that they cut the size from 18oz to 12oz. They count on a stupid uneducated conforming consumer. I "won't" pay for this fuc*ery. People like you suck it up and say what are you going to do I like cheerios, and Breyers ice cream.

Educate yourselves, and band together boycott the bums, vote them out of office....change doesn't happen by conforming.

This nation was born by patriot non-conformist, and corporations and government has all but stifled your rights, and belief that you can do anything about it!

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 07:52

64. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


Do you know what the word "verbatim" means?? My point is simply this: I NEVER said it wasn't for profit. Your reposting of my quotes proved nothing, because my opinion has been the same all along. Read back through all of my threads CAREFULLY, and quit trying to read into my statement want YOU want them to say.

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 08:04

65. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


I'm misguided??? That's so friggin hilarious. I want you to comment on my walmart cereal price hypothetical. See, that's simple common sense. Either you buy it at what price they post, or you don't. Or how about you comment on my idea of learning how to deal with less access to data? I've noticed you won't touch that issue, other than "thumbing your nose" at my comment about your usage. Did you see that? I just quoted you VERBATIM...and again stop the name calling.

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 08:24

66. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


Below is quoted excerpts from Fran the "CFO" of whom I was inadvertently referring to as the "CEO" of Verizon making the Conference call presentation.

John as you see there was no mention of not being able to handle volume. Contrary to that premise she states that migrating to 4G LTE has mitigated any issues that were arising due to rising iPhone volume and the network as they switched customers to LTE service.
Fran goes on to say that cost associated with LTE is way lower than it was last year and that over all capital spending was declining. This tells you that there is no issues with volume capacity and cost of implementing capital for such issues....wake up and stay informed!

"You will recall that in the first half of last year, we were spending more for 3G capacity in connection with our initial launch of the iPhone. Going forward, we expect to see continued migration of traffic from 3G to our lower cost 4G LTE platform, which will drive further improvements in operating and capital efficiency."

"We will also continue expanding our 4G LTE network coverage, which is already the largest in the nation by a wide margin. In Wireline, we spent $1.6 billion in capital during the second quarter, 5.3% less than last year. Through the first half, Wireline capital was essentially flat with last year at $3.1 billion.
Our Share Everything plans, which became available on June 28 represent a new and innovative pricing framework, providing a unique customer value proposition and at the same time creating an optimal way for us to monetize increasing data usage. These strategic thrust of these plans is to encourage device adoption and stimulate usage. Our plans are designed to make the decision to upgrade to a smartphone or add a tablet much easier."

"We will have taken $5 billion out of our cost structure in the last three years, which is why we can generate margins of 49%, which beat our all-time high from last year. So I think that wireless has a very good track record in history to deliver both on profitability and growth."

"In Wireless, CapEx in the second quarter was $2 billion, which was 23% lower than last year. Through the first half, Wireless capital was $3.9 billion, was down 27% year-over-year. You will recall that in the first half of last year, we were spending more for 3G capacity in connection with our initial launch of the iPhone. Going forward, we expect to see continued migration of traffic from 3G to our lower cost 4G LTE platform, which will drive further improvements in operating and capital efficiency."

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 08:42

67. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


There was no hypothetical John it is a fact. I buy things in the store for my little boy. The price of cereal changed about .25 cents down but the over all size decreased 6oz.

It's the same premise with these carriers and the services they render to you the consumer for less, but you are so ignorant that you can't see the parallel. The solution that I gave you was to switch to another carrier or band together to protest their increases. You can boycott their services by choosing to not use it or change the way that you use it foolish man.

I can't have a intelligent conversation with and ignorant fool that just rants with no substantial premise other than opinionated bull crap!

Again I don't have to deal with less access to data I am on an unlimited plan.Rofl
If I had to I told you what I would do in my past post and now your ignorant arse must go reread my past post. I refuse to keep repeating what you obviously can't grasp or acknowledge! How old are you any way John 13, because you act like a big mouth know it all child wet behind the ears about real life issues. Mostly everything you have said was based on a snot nosed childish, and sometimes ignorant misinformed rant!

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 08:54

68. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


post 62 was about you John. You can hide behind the cloud of I never said this verbatim when in fact your response was towards Martyk, and I suggesting that the only reason that the carriers were switching to tiered data was greed and profit.

I went on to quote what the "CFO" said of whom I was then referring to as the "CEO" and you then made those remarks. Those remarks were about your thinking it more to be a volume issue rather than a profit issue, and "you" went on to say that because I wasn't an engineer, nor had an engineer made those assertions that MartyK and I were just posting opinion.

You are such a hypocrite, and only after I posted links with facts calling you to the carpet did you sway your thinking. Now you want to play the politician roll....quote me verbatim....you are insane. Wake up foolish man...or should I say foolish little boy!

This link is the full conference call in case you think I left something out, or tried to change the words to suit my position!

http://seekingalpha.com/article/732401-verizon-communications-management-discusses-q2-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 09:12

69. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


first of all, you need to calm down. I am 48 years old, have two grown children, faithfully served my country in the Marine Corps and the Army for 12 years, and work 2 jobs 69 hours a week. I MUST be an idiot for burning up my precious time trying to get you to use basic common sense. obviously, you're so fired up to comment back that you didn't read post 61 carefully. heres your comment "verbatim"

There was no hypothetical John it is a fact. I buy things in the store for my little boy. The price of cereal changed about .25 cents down but the over all size decreased 6oz.

My "hypothetical" was me giving YOU something to think about. my whole point was/is SOCIETY IN GENERAL DOESN'T CARE HOW RETAILERS COME TO THEIR PRICING. we can either buy it, or don't. if you have discovered that General Mills is somehow ripping you off, don't buy it!!

my 2nd Job does happen to be at walmart, and I know how they come to their pricing. but do I still shop there, yes. will I still shop there after I quit? yes. i can see the parallell very easily, it's you who are blinded to your own need to prove your point.

bottom line: no matter what you say or do, you're not going to change the fact that unlimited data is going away, for all carriers. no matter how much research you do, and things you discover, it won't change that fact. Do you think Sam Walton Started WalMart just because he wanted to "change the world" (your words). no, he did it also to secure a strong financial future for he and the generations of Waltons after him. that's called making a profit, and I have never stated otherwise.

and you STILL haven't shown where I said they were NOT doing this for profit.

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 09:20

70. johnriii (Posts: 239; Member since: 17 Oct 2011)


who's the sheep? just because they say it, you believe it? remember what I said before, they let US (the consumer) see and hear what they want us to see and hear. obviously, you are a person who picks and chooses to believe only the things that supports his position. heaven forbid you find something in opposition to your viewpoint.

I find it hilarious that you keep resorting to name calling, (foolish little boy) as if that's going to drive your point home further. it's very infantile.

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 09:34

71. QWIKSTRIKE (Posts: 1205; Member since: 09 Mar 2010)


John this post is just an example of how foolish you are. They told investors they are switching you to tiered data because it is more profitable. You are now being herded to tiered data like sheep.

They said LTE cost way less than 3g to maintain and it is more profitable, and that they are moving everyone over to 4G LTE smart phones with tiered data plans as they progress forward, because "tiered data" is profitable. Capital equipment spending is down since moving to LTE because it's less expensive to maintain and more profitable.

They said that they made a 49% profit on your ignorant arse as well. You seem to continuously say that I shouldn't listen to what they are saying yet they have done every thing that was mentioned

You are either that ignorant or you are that stupid....pick one! Maybe I am under estimating you and you are both stupid and ignorant! Mental midget comes to mind, but I know you are way too smart to be a mental midget!

Pull your head out of your ass the s**t that you are smelling is your own, and you haven't realized it yet....wake up fool. ROFL...

The more you talk the more you show your ignorant backwards thinking...keep quite you will seem more intelligent if you spoke fewer words to betray your intelligence!

posted on 21 Jul 2012, 10:41 1

72. georgiaboyz (Posts: 11; Member since: 10 Feb 2012)


I agree it brings in more revenue...however, what gets old is people crying about companies making wanting to make more money...is that not the primary reason to be in business??? If you or I were at the top of these companies we would be trying to make our company as much money as possible also. And if you say you wouldn't, you're either A. A liar or B. A crappy employee. And that is fact. I'm not a carrier lover or sheep or whatever...I just appreciate a company trying to make themselves money like a business should do.

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